Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => BIG BANDIT BANTER => Topic started by: ricklee4570 on July 18, 2007, 07:28:45 AM
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I work with a fellow who just bought a Yamaha V-Max. Im not sure what year it is, seems like they all look the same since they came out!
Anyway, I have a 97 Bandit 1200, completely stock. It has 39,000 miles on it. Very well maintained, excellent condition.
I am going to take it to the track and run it in the quarter mile sometime this summer, mainly out of curiosity as to what kind of time I can get out of it. I am an experienced rider, and I have owned a lot of different motorcycles in my life and usually end up spending a little time on the dragstrip. (Beats hot rodding on the streets where it is not only dangerous but can become expensive!)
Anyway, this guy I work with is also a very experienced rider. He is going to join me when I go and run his V-Max. Forget the magazines, in the real world, which bike should win this race? All variables close to the same, concerning rider experience, we both weigh close to the same, and general consistencies. Is it easier to get a good time on a bandit verses the Max?
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It should be a close run but you should win. It is hard to launch a shaft drive bike, so you should get him out of the hole, if you can keep the front wheel down. Let us know how it comes out. :motorsmile:
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V-max can keep its nose down much easier (after the shaft drive issues are dealt with) ...even launching mine as hard as I could I had to try to get a wheelie in 1st. The v-max's v-boost will get you if you are neck and neck when it kicks in...but...I think the extra RPM's at the top on the bandit and the 100lb advantage in the weight department should yield you a victory. Be careful and have fun...
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Really? You guys think that a stock Bandit can outrun a stock VMax? I don't think so. Maybe Ricklee is a better rider than the other guy. That's the only way the Suzuki will win. Any gentlemanly handshake bets? The Bandit is a fine motorcycle but the V MAx is a wickedly fast beast in a straight line.
Hey let us know when it happens, would love to read the results.
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I dunno...
Vmax makes about 110 hp and a tad more torque than a bandit but weighs dry at 580 vs. 480 for the bandit...it will be close and more about the drivers than the bikes themselves...
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Really? You guys think that a stock Bandit can outrun a stock VMax? I don't think so. Maybe Ricklee is a better rider than the other guy. That's the only way the Suzuki will win. Any gentlemanly handshake bets? The Bandit is a fine motorcycle but the V MAx is a wickedly fast beast in a straight line.
Hey let us know when it happens, would love to read the results.
I'm not knocking the VMax. It is one of my all time favorite bikes, but in many years of dragracing I have never seen one run good at the strip, mid 11's at best, but that is what the track is for, go find out :motorsmile:
But to put that into perspective, I have never ridden anything stock at the dragstrip. :bandit:
My favorite bike, that I owned, was the 89 FJ 12
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These are from motorcyclist online.
V-Max ('03) 116.5HP 11.30 @ 119.84
Bandit 1200 ('01) 101.8 HP 10.98 @ 121.9
Bandit 1200S ('01) 101.6 HP 11.15 @ 121.8
I don't usually put much into these things from "pro" riders, but it looks like stock to stock it will be a close one.
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These are from motorcyclist online.
V-Max ('03) 116.5HP 11.30 @ 119.84
Bandit 1200 ('01) 101.8 HP 10.98 @ 121.9
Bandit 1200S ('01) 101.6 HP 11.15 @ 121.8
I don't usually put much into these things from "pro" riders, but it looks like stock to stock it will be a close one.
i wouldn call that a pro rider on the Vmax as Dale W went like 10.60's @ near 129 mph on a STOCK vmax 22 yrs ago!! I think tis will be a riders race!!
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wow that really suprises me. I've never considered the Bandit with its relatively low HP figures and low redline to be that fast. Really suprises me.
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This is with a 48 shot of Nitrous
1/4 Mile ET: 10.609
1/4 Mile MPH: 130.815
1/8 Mile ET: 6.908
1/8 Mile MPH: 104.500
0-60 Foot ET: 1.752
Temperature F: 79.0
Timeslip Scan:
Car Make: Yamaha
Car Model: V Max
Car Type:
Car Year: 1997
Driver: Rix Lewis
Nitrous System: N.O.S.
Nitrous Shot: 48
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Just curious, why would a shaft drive be harder to launch than a chain drive? I used to have an 87 Magna, it was shaft, never had any problems launching it.
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Rick,
In antiquity, and some say BMW shafts still do this, there was a "jacking" problem in which the suspension of shaft drive bikes under hard acceleration they shifted weight as the shaft pinion gear tried to "climb" the ring gear. Rapid on/off throttle action would cause the rear end to "pogo" (move up and down vertically) upsetting the stability of the bike.
I've owned numerous Honda shaft drive units and never had this experience.
JR
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Yes, I used to notice that on my old Magna. I thought it was rather cool, blip the throttle and the rear end bounced upward. But it never created a problem launching hard. The rear would raise up, but I still stayed on it hard and made a pretty good take off. Maybe it is worse with something like the V-Max with so much more power?
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The Magnas, even the 86 Tarrif Cheater 700 were power brutes too. The V-65 was a MONSTER in that department. I've owned 2 of the 750 cc late model Magnas... sweet machine..., except for 2 MAJOR defects... TINY GAS TANK... ran out of gas at 110 mi... unacceptable. and LONG TURNING CIRCLE... The big Mag was like it's Sabre Sibling... straight ahead POWER... but don't try to maneuver much... now, the 700/750 Sabres... sweet in the twisties... Much more fun to ride if you aren't seduced by the brute power gnome. The big Bandit is capable, but not spectacular in putting together POWER and HANDLING... for me, a near perfect compromise.
Put HeliBars on it yesterday... should do my old back a lot of good getting away from the Roger Racer Boy Wannabe monkey on a football crouch...
JR
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So anybody know which would win in a straight line race, the V-65 Magna or the V-Max? (All variables considered equal)
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In it's day, the V-65 Magna was the fastest straight line production bike in the market...
I would expect it to be CLOSE... I've ridden both and off the line, the V-65 Magna would probably take the lead, but when the VMax got into it's power range (VBoost) it would make a race of the confrontation.
I was surprised to read how the B-12 Bandits routinely had lower ET's and higher 1/4 mi final speeds... not a lot, but enough to beat VMax every time. BHP and Torque on the VMax are greater, but so is weight and Max is shaft while Bandit is chain drive.... Rider reaction times could be deciding factor too since the time/speeds I read were so close.
This said, I have to add, VMax is one real GO DOWN THE ROAD machine for sure. I was riding, some years ago, in the back seat of my son's car on a narrow two lane tarmac road on the Spanish island of Mallorca, we were running about 125klicks... I heard the singing of a bike engine... suddenly, a VMax literally flew past us as though we were a speed limit sign. I have no idea of the guy's speed, but I'd estimate it at 200 klicks or greater... He was really "GOING DOWN THE ROAD." I WAS IMPRESSED..... He was crazy.
JR
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From what I recall as "official" 1/4 mile times when we bought my wife's bike (its faster than a magna 750 according to this quarter mile time list and I can attest to it handling better than a magna) the magna 750 was only a fraction of a second behind my bike, which was a fraction of second behind the valkyrie and v-rod (tied IIRC) then the v-max was about .5 second faster than those. It is conceivable that the v-65 1100 cc magna could match the v-max but I doubt it could beat it. V-boost is really what gave the v-max its fame as a fire-breathing monster...
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The last 750 Magna I had was "not stock"... it had the air box mods, the carb rejet, and Vance and Hines (AWFUL LOUD) pipes... it would scat, but you're right VMax would run away from it purely on the basis of cubes.
Now, I would like to see some actual "real world" comparisons between a pristine stock V-65Mag and a same year pristine stock V-Max... any other comparison would be, to me at least, like comparing watermellons with grapes.
Like I said, I think the bottom end grunt of the V-65 Mag would take the off the line, (if you could keep the rear tire 'hooked up.') but Maxine might get enough out of VBoost up top to catch it, maybe even pass it... Can't know w/o heads up comparo, however.
JR
JR
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So anybody know which would win in a straight line race, the V-65 Magna or the V-Max? (All variables considered equal)
IIRC from the m/c rags of the day, the V65 Magna was the quickest production bike when it came out in '83 - but when '85 rolled around and the V-Max hit the street, it took the top honors away from Honda.
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IIRC from the m/c rags of the day, the V65 Magna was the quickest production bike when it came out in '83 - but when '85 rolled around and the V-Max hit the street, it took the top honors away from Honda.
And then the FJ, and GSXR 1100, and then the ZX11, and then the Busa, and now the ZX14.
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Different animal when you start talking about the FJ and others...V-max is still the fastest cruiser available...
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My memory tells me it was the V65 Sabre, not Magna that was quickest in a 1/4 mile.
I don't really think of a Vmax as a cruiser either, more of a brute power standard. It really doesn't attempt the cruiser styling cues.
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I don't really think of a Vmax as a cruiser either, more of a brute power standard. It really doesn't attempt the cruiser styling cues.
Really??? :headscratch: It screams Cruiser to me - albeit Power Cruiser.
Raked front end, low seat height, small diameter rear wheel with a fat rear tire (for the era it was first introduced), skinny and tall front wheel, little concern for cornering clearance/handling, some idiot lights & instruments on the "tank" (actually in a pod just forward of the airbox cover), stepped seat, that rear fender, "V" engine with stylized fins and the fact Yamaha has put it in their Star Motorcycles lineup.
OK, so it doesn't have forward foot controls, but plenty of Harleys don't either... and it hasn't changed styling in over 20 years. I think that makes it the longest in tooth Japanese motorcycle ever made. Even the almost as old Kawasaki Concours got a facelift after 20. :wink:
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I don't really think of a Vmax as a cruiser either, more of a brute power standard. It really doesn't attempt the cruiser styling cues.
Really??? :headscratch: It screams Cruiser to me - albeit Power Cruiser.
Raked front end, low seat height, small diameter rear wheel with a fat rear tire (for the era it was first introduced), skinny and tall front wheel, little concern for cornering clearance/handling, some idiot lights & instruments on the "tank" (actually in a pod just forward of the airbox cover), stepped seat, that rear fender, "V" engine with stylized fins and the fact Yamaha has put it in their Star Motorcycles lineup.
OK, so it doesn't have forward foot controls, but plenty of Harleys don't either... and it hasn't changed styling in over 20 years. I think that makes it the longest in tooth Japanese motorcycle ever made. Even the almost as old Kawasaki Concours got a facelift after 20. :wink:
+1 !!!! Well Said! :congrats:
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Nah, when you look at a Harley and a Vmax, they have nearly nothing in common. Not a cruiser. More of a pro-stock drag bike look. The japanese have made plenty of powerful but ill handling beasts over the years. Yamaha had the virago based v-twin imitation even back in the day to do the cruiser thing.
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My memory tells me it was the V65 Sabre, not Magna that was quickest in a 1/4 mile.
I don't really think of a Vmax as a cruiser either, more of a brute power standard. It really doesn't attempt the cruiser styling cues.
and I was thinking it was the ZL1000 Eliminator?? before the Vmax?
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Sorry, the V-max is a power cruiser. It sits more like a cruiser than a power-standard, has more looks and chrome than a standard as well. I don't think anyone in the VMOA would consider it a power standard.
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This is from a Vmax Web Site
Memo to Yamaha:
The Vmax, when first introduced, was a knock down, take no prisoners muscle bike, and everyone knew it. Those days are long past. A lot of current sportbikes will kick sand in the face of Mr. Max and feel no fear, he’s a little slow and stiff. So if you’re going to reintroduce him, what do you do?
The Vmax was never intended to be a corner carver, it’s a straight line point and shoot weapon that sounds like nothing else (with proper pipes) and with v-boost it gave you that rush at 6,000rpm that felt like all hell was breaking loose. Loads of fun! I know, I’ve owned two. Don’t try to be all things to all riders, there are a small number of Vmax devotees who will buy one as soon as they’re available plus new initiates who want the same experience in terms even a current rider can understand and that takes horsepower, brutal horsepower plus the sound of a V4 with a great set of cams. So here are a few ideas:
The rear tire on the concept at 200/50R18 is getting there but we could go a bit wider. Forget curves, we’re talking straight lines here, we need rubber to harness horsepower.
Dump the shaft drive. A swingarm with a good chain is lighter and gives owners more flexibility for wider wheels and long swingarms for drag racing. Conversions from shaft drive are a lot of work. Look at some of the best customs Vmax fans have built over the last 20 years, lots of chain drive.
Carbs are long out of date so the old v-boost setup is passe but how about supercharging? Blowers give street cred like few things can. A turbo could work, too, but a supercharger does away with lag and just has that badass look and sound that sets it apart. Those scoops could serve a real purpose!
Forget the Yamaha saddlebags and windshields. Build a line of factory drag accessories like extended swingarms, special cams, big bore kits, wheelie bars, that sort of thing. Maybe if the supercharger is too radical for the standard machine, offer it as a factory speed part.
Push the envelope. The Vmax was crazy when it first came out and lasted a long time, be crazy again. Cosmetic updates will disappoint everyone unless the machine means business, don’t ruin a great name. You don’t need a practical road cruiser, Yamaha has lots of high volume road bikes, this is a special purpose halo machine, make the name mean something again. Introduce a new generation of riders to the mean and nasty Mr Max!
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I don't really think of a Vmax as a cruiser either, more of a brute power standard. It really doesn't attempt the cruiser styling cues.
and I was thinking it was the ZL1000 Eliminator?? before the Vmax?
I agree. I'd call the V-Max more of a factory drag bike, for stoplight-to-stoplight racing. Not a "cruiser" at all:
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/ZenMan33/VMax.jpg)
A lot like the Eliminator:.
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/ZenMan33/ZL1000eliminator86.jpg)
ButI wouldn't call them "muscle-bikes", either... to me, a muscle-bike is more of a standard with a big engine... like the Z-1 900/1000, or the early GS1000/1100's, or nowadays... the Bandit. :bandit:
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now to throw some fire.. Id lose my B12.5 for a vmax anyday having had both!!!
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now to throw some fire.. Id lose my B12.5 for a vmax anyday having had both!!!
Why... is the VMax seat better? :lol:
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The guy I bought my v-max from had put 66,000 miles on it using it as a touring bike with the stock seat. He had numerous Iron-butt awards from his travels as well. You DO have to stop every 125-150 miles for gas so I suppose that helps a bit.
Frankly, I could ride that bike longer than my bandit without screaming for mercy.
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now to throw some fire.. Id lose my B12.5 for a vmax anyday having had both!!!
Why... is the VMax seat better? :lol:
SIGNIFICANTLY!!
(http://photos.imageevent.com/turbo/mine/websize/picture2%20006.jpg)
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You look very comfy and content! :wink:
So I guess I'll go and find a nice VMax, and trade it for your B1250 straight across, then.
Deal? :bandit:
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You look very comfy and content! :wink:
So I guess I'll go and find a nice VMax, and trade it for your B1250 straight across, then.
Deal? :bandit:
I would not be opposed to that idea!!
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Will this one do?
http://tinyurl.com/22224q
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Will this one do?
http://tinyurl.com/22224q
close but no 85's and too many miles. Already in discussion with dealer on C14 trade.
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Will this one do?
http://tinyurl.com/22224q
close but no 85's and too many miles. Already in discussion with dealer on C14 trade.
Well, good luck then. I hope your butt is happier on the new bike. :roll: :lol:
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Will this one do?
http://tinyurl.com/22224q
close but no 85's and too many miles. Already in discussion with dealer on C14 trade.
Well, good luck then. I hope your butt is happier on the new bike. :roll: :lol:
im sure it will be :clap:
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Well, I'll put in my 2 cents............I have a 90 V-Max, an 85 ZL900, just picked up a 00' 1200 Bandit S.............from what I can tell so far, the V-Max is still king. I have owned a ton of V-65's, Magnas and Sabres, and although they are sweet bikes for sure, neither is as fast as my V-Max! This Bandit "feels" a little bit faster right out of the hole, but it doesn't have the top end rush like the V-Max has........would love to run them all side by side to find out for sure! The Kawasaki ZL900 is the fastest in the first 60 feet, but will fade in the quarter mile. Overall, each bike has it's strengths and weaknesses, but as far as I'm concerned, the V-Max is still the King!!!!
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o236/83GS1100E_Tornado/John_Max.jpg)
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Based on my experiences running up against friends/acquantances aboard VMaxes, I'd say the B12 and V-Max are pretty close in straight-line acceleration, enough where it is highly dependent on rider skill and conditions. The B12 will outrun it at top speed, if you can find a safe place to run them both out. When it comes to twisties though, the B12 is more confidence inspiring due to better brakes, steering geometry, cornering clearance, etc. - but then they are different bikes for different styles of riding, so no big surprise there.
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I always wondered why Harley never adopted some of that V-4 technology. I always felt the the V-max looked a bit cramped trying to sport such a high performance V-4 on a platform that is neither sport or cruiser. Harley should have perused the design and came up with a long super cruiser that payed better attention to the dressing up of the cylinders and heads. No disrespect intended but to me the V-max has always looked a bit animated and morphed somewhere between cruiser and sport bike. The new Vmax is allot more of the same but allot more expensive IMHO.
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Harley DID pursue V4 technology with their Nova Project, (http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/04/06/harley-davidson-v4-nova/) but the project never made it to production.
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this is a joke right? v65 vmax zl1000 lol the numbers from the magazines are not real world numbers unless your peewee gilson or Ricky gatson i have never seen a shaft bike that could leave the line like a chain drive bike. did i miss something in 1985? i remember back in the day smoking a guy on his v65 on the back wheel with my 82 GPz1100! 1985 worlds fastest production motorcycle GPz750 TURBO :grin: 1st it was the z1 900 the granddaddy of them all. but then again there was the triples :duh: bandit out run a vmax any day with a good rider. it's all in the clutch! unless u have a 2 step and bars :yikes: :yikes:
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My 1200 Bandit just recently received a stock set of carbs and an airbox, it was previously running on another set of carbs with pods and I took it back to stock! Man, what a difference, she's running like a top, and I'll tell you what, it's right there with the VMAX now! I had a buddy riding it against me on the ZL900 yesterday, and although both races were close, he took me by about 2 bike lengths both time, 0-100 mph..........I know the VMAX is faster than my ZL900, so I think that would still be a good race with the Bandit, but I have more respect for one now that it's running right! With a new exhaust and some jetting, I know it could outrun my stock VMAX! All fun bikes to cruise on, that's for sure, it was 80 and sunny here in Big D yesterday!!!
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So anybody know which would win in a straight line race, the V-65 Magna or the V-Max? (All variables considered equal)
Easiest way to settle the "Rider Skill" question is to make three 1/4 mile runs on both bikes, then SWAP riders and do it again.
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So anybody know which would win in a straight line race, the V-65 Magna or the V-Max? (All variables considered equal)
Easiest way to settle the "Rider Skill" question is to make three 1/4 mile runs on both bikes, then SWAP riders and do it again.
Stock bikes, the VMAX is going to win every time, hands down. They just aren't that close!
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yeah but lets see what v4 bikes can do in the twisties and even the big eliminator!!! i don't know how anybody could get beat on the eliminator nothing leaves as nice as it does. WFO let the clutch fly when it get done spinning shift 2nd can't do that with a v-max and if u want really want to embarrass them do it on a 600 eliminator won't take them on top but it will in a block to block race. been there done that :clap: :clap: but my wife hates it when i beat on her bike like that
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I agree, stoplight to stoplight, the ZL900 is pretty tough to beat, but both the V65 and Max will catch it in the quarter mile, as will the 1200 Bandit..........I just got my Bandit running good and it pulls like a freight train! I just love the older bikes, nostalgia I guess, the Bandit is nice, but just doesn't "do" anything for me. It's for sale in the classifieds if anybody in the Dallas area is interested!!!!
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i don't think any of them will run down my bandit but mine ain't stock. i like the old bikes too got a house full of old Kawasaki but none of them have what the bandit got :thumb: BTW if u need any parts for that zl900 let me know bro-in-law got like 5 of them :duh: