Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => BIG BANDIT BANTER => Topic started by: Big_Jim59 on March 27, 2012, 12:47:05 PM
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I am new to Suzuki Bandits but not to bikes in boxes. I like puzzles and I love bikes and so combining the two is a kind of kinetic sculpture building exercise. My daughter found a 2001 Bandit 600 for cheap ($250) that had been wrecked and then dismantled. The previous owner had the idea of making a street fighter and used a rattle can to paint the frame, and everything else flat black. This covered up what was once a really lovely red frame. The front end plastics are all gone as the result of the wreck but the rear tail piece and tank have been treated to a lime green paint job that was applied with a brush. Pretty it aint.
When I bought the bike from my daughter it came in several pieces and multiple boxes. I have since managed to install the engine and get the wiring harness back in place and everything is back in, more or less, its original position. I have reworked the rearsets that came with the bike. They were in pieces and I didn't even know what they were for a while. They are not great but they will work for now. I drained the oil and found that the crankcase was full of a mixture of oil and gas. I have refilled the crankcase with fresh oil but will drain, refill and change the filter after the first start up. The right side engine cover was leaking. The previous owner had used something like Yamabond to try and seal it without a gasket. I removed the goop and fitted a fresh gasket. I have cleaned and installed the carbs along with installing the battery. I rolled the bike outside and tried the starter.
It works! The engine spins and I sprayed a bit of carb cleaner down each carb and the beast farted and popped meaning that I have my plug leads reversed. I switched them round but never got the bike to fire and thankfully so. The oil cooler was cracked and dribbling oil. If the bike had started, even briefly, it would have made an unbelievable mess. I am waiting on my ebay purchased oil cooler before further progress can be made.
(http://www.ingramandfriends.com/images/bikes/bandit-10.jpg)
This is how it looks now. The picture does not do it justice. You can't see the brush strokes in the paint nor can you see the huge blobs of un-smoothed body filler on the tank.
Somehow I am going to have to figure out how to fit some aftermarket lights and design some type of bracket to hold the original instruments. I will also need a muffler. I am not sure what is going on with that. The pipe that came with the bike takes a bolt on can but the OEM mufflers seem to take a slip on mount. It's just another mystery to be solved.
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Greetings Big JIM; welcome to forum. I like the color. looks like a pastel lime. Get er going. its time to ride. sandy
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Thanks Sandy. I have always liked the Bandit series from Suzuki. To me that are great bikes at a great value even though I have never actually ridden one. I'll fix that pretty soon. I like that fact that it is a sporting bike, in standard trim (handlebars) and you can commute to work or ride across country. You just can't beat a bike like that.
The color is not bad but the finish is horrible. Once I get it going I am going to tear it back down and make it pretty. I think I am going to revers the color scheme and do the frame and wheels in green and everything else in gloss black.
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Big Jim; that sounds like a plan. I just love working on my b12. the simplicity of air/oil cooling is really sinking in. Thought I mite want a 1250. not rite now, Yours is a six speed, that is a plus. If frame is ok for now. you could do bodywork to get you by till fall. sandy
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The frame is nasty but I will probably get it cobbled together and try riding it a bit this year. In the fall it all has to come apart. I got my oil cooler in from an ebay purchase and today is the day I see if it will run. I'll report back on how it goes.
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It runs! Not well but it runs and the engine sounds nice with no strange noises. I do not have fire on #4. I find this strange since #1 and #4 fire at the same time (wasted spark). I can only surmise that the plug is bad or the plug wire or plug cap are bad. I will have to explore further. I am just glad it runs.
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Big Jim is on the loose :motorsmile:. you really got a buy on the bandit Just make sure brakes and tires before the ride. sandy
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I got plenty to do before I ride. The brakes are good. The tires are just OK with the center tread well worn. The chain has got to go. I am going to replace it with a cheap non-o-ring style chain because I am going to tear it down again for paint. I have to wire up a headlight, of some type, and I need a place to put the license plate. I also have to bolt the tank on. It is just sitting there at the moment.
I got her firing on all cylinders. I removed #4 plug cap to ohm it out and I reset it in its lead. It fires now just fine and the bike revs nicely. It is very quiet with it Bandit 1200 exhaust can. It runs a bit rich. I am going to have to compare the jetting to the stock specs.
It's nice to know that the engine is not trash and that I can proceed with the project knowing the the engine is in good form
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Well, good for you Big_Jim
It's always nice to know the engine runs OK.
I'm snooping at your picture, trying to figure out the dirt bike in the background. Despite the nice '74/75 Bultaco Blue colour, it is NOT a Bultaco. Looks like an early '70's vintage bike, but since the engine is covered with plastic, I can't quite make it out. What is it?
I also see some big ass Amp/Speaker cabinets, a high hat and guitar stand c/w guitar, so it looks like you share the workshop with your other hobby?
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The blue bike in the background is an on-going restoration project, a 1976 Honda XL250. It is dificult since Honda forgot they made such a bike and parts are dificult to come by. The bike in its current state has reworked rolling chassis including powder coated frame, rims, new OEM spokes (that began to rust the moment they were installed) and rebuilt motor. I have another 76 XL250 in the barn. It is a good runner but a farm bike. I also have several misfit dirt bikes, most of them run but look like hell.
The engine is wrapped in plastic because around these parts we have these flying wasps that we call Dirt Dobbers. They build mud nests in between fins, in intake tracks and in every hole than can find. They can make a mess of things in a hurry.
There is band stuff in the background. My workshop space doubles as a practice space. In fact about have of it is given over to band equipment and PA gear. The drum kit is just a junk Rogers set I picked up for $100. My son and I play in a classic rock band called Uphill Slide.
Check us out at: http://www.uphillslide.com (http://www.uphillslide.com)
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Well, I changed the oil and filter and ran it down the road. I have the good fortune to live on a mile and a half of rock and dirt road. I can ride a bike with no lights and no tag, at least up to around 30 miles per hour without official interference.
The engine sounds fine. It idles fine but has trouble taking gas. It pops back through #4 on heavy load. It bogs down and loses power as if it is running out of gas. I just have to go through it now and check everything. The good news is I have all the gears and the clutch works good, likewise the brakes. The clocks work but without the original faring and bracket I have no place to mount them. Currently they are zip tied to the handlebars. It looks really pretty that way!
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This weeks revelation reveals why, when, dealing with a bike that someone has obviously messed with, it is important to pay attention to detail. When last I posted the bike was running but was really rich and wouldn't pick up RPM past 5K. I pulled the carbs back off and began a careful examination. It seems the choke bar was installed incorrectly. On three of the enrichment plungers the choke bar was in the slot and was able to push and pull the plunger. On the fourth carb (#4) it was resting on top of the plunger. This had the effect of making one carb normal and other three carbs held open on a permanent choke setting.
I put it back together and it ran like garbage. I figured that running rich for so long might have effected the plugs so I buffed the old ones. This helped a lot but it is still not good. I ordered a set of CR9EK NGKs. They were $6 each at the little independent parts shop in my small town. The local Suzuki dealer was charging $12. I understand making a profit but is it necessary to rape your customers for normal wear parts like plugs and filters?
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Good going Jim; It takes attention to details to find stuff like that. Its hard enough to keeping them running when everythings rite.
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I have been trying to keep the project rolling in the face of limited funds. I ordered a stock air box from an ebay seller. I understand that the 600 can't really be run on pod filters. I had to bite the bullet and get a stock box so I can get it running right
Since the whole OEM faring is gone and even the frame mounts are destroyed, I have been working on a functional look for the front end. I received the headlight mounts I ordered and the light kit I got from China. It is actually a copy of the lights from a Honda Ruckus. I like the Ruckus lights because they are big duel lights, have a brush guard and are an inexpensive alternative to other lighting kits I was looking at. It should look like a budget Speed Triple when I am done. I am sure no one will like it. I usually build things to my taste not someone else's.
I gotta pull the front end to install my headlight mounts and at the moment I am at a bit of a loss. I have no center stand and I am going to have to rig it to hang in the air while I pull the front wheel and forks.
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Big Jim; who says 600s cant run pods? I didnt know that, its just a air filter. sandy
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I spent the day installing the carbs and my eBay air box on the Bandit. I know now why the previous owner ruined the original air box trying to get it out. It goes in the frame and then everything else is installed around it. I had to remove the carbs, the carb boots and the oil feed lines to get it in place. It was a tight fit but worth it.
I also replaced the plugs. I am happy to report that the bike runs like a new one, smooth revs all through the range with great power. It has a really nice feel. I think the cure is evenly split between having a stock air box and nice new clean plugs after the old ones were left to drown in gas due to the stuck choke condition caused by the PO.
This picture says it all. It’s still ugly as an old boot. It still has the instruments zip tied on and the body work is still sitting on the floor of the shop but it runs really well. I am really happy with today's progress.
(http://www.ingramandfriends.com/images/bikes/running.jpg)
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I committed Saturday to Bandit work and while I worked pretty much all day I got a very small amount accomplished.
This first thing I did was attack the nasty green front fender. It was both a hideous color and cracked. Using fiberglass I patched the cracking pieces and with body filler I reshaped the offending split. Paint stripper made quick work of the green paint (this was left a short time and rubbed so as not to harm the plastic) and I shot a coat of rattle can semi-gloss black over all. It's not great but it is a lot better then it was. I'll address the real look of things when I do the full strip this winter.
I assembled the front end with the new headlight brackets I purchased on ebay. Last week I pulled both stanchions and used paint stripper again, to removed the five layers of paint on the sliders. I used a bit of electrical cleaner and a soft cloth to remove the over spray for the disk roters and wheel spacers. (There was even a bit of metallic blue on there.)
I made a bracket for my gauges. Since the original faring is history I needed a way to mount the clocks. I laid out the drawing to scale on my computer, made a paper mockup to check the fit and then cut a prototype out of steel sheet. It works great and is almost sturdy enough to use as the final version. I will remake it in heaver gauge sheet metal with a few minor alterations.
Lastly I installed new grips after using shims to give the switch housings more bite on the bars.
It's all a bunch of tiny details the culminate into a great bike.
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Another update on my Bandit project.
I have made progress on two fronts. Last week I went to the Texas department of Motor vehicles with my paper work and waited my turn. The helpful lady processed my paper work and presented me with the forms I needed to obtain a bonded title. Around here, no title means no tag and no tag means you have the worlds worst dirt bike. All I need now is money to pay the sales, tax, the title transfer fee and the bond and I am good to go.
I finished the bracket I needed to mount the gauges. It is not very pretty or polished but it works. The original gauges mounted inside the faring that bolted to the frame. I made a pattern for my bracket using Adobe Illustrator. I pre-fit the design as a paper mockup. Then I cut the actual bracket out of 16 gauge sheet metal with a jig saw, using a sheet metal blade. My arm are killing me from having to hold the saw and the plate tight to keep it from kicking back. I have a buddy with a computer controlled laser plasma cuter. If I give him a DXF file he can cut a perfect copy out of heaver gauge metal or aluminum plate. He could even cut “Suzuki” in it or skulls or anything else I wanted. A plasma cutter is pretty amazing.
So I got the gauges mounted, I got the electrical sorted out and I got my headlight mounted. It is not exactly like I want it but it will work. It is kind of hard to see but they are Honda Ruckus headlights with black brush guards.
(http://www.ingramandfriends.com/images/bikes/lights.jpg)
My camera sucks so my picture is blurry.
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I also went to dmv. michigan style and am ready to ride, at least according to state of MI. Good Job brother.
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At this point I am ironing out small rough spots and detailing bits. I ordered some grommets for the tail piece and I fitted a license plate bracket in the anticipation of getting the title straightened.
The title and the tires will be the biggest expenses. I was hoping to sell my Honda Ascot to cover the expense but so far I have had no luck. It will happen, just not as fast as I would like.
The bike runs great but has a bit of a tick coming from the top end. It sounds like a timing chain but I am not very familiar with these bikes so it could be anything. I should have pulled the cover and run the valves while the engine was out. It would have been much easier.
I am posting a better, clearer image showing the lights. Imagine the green changed to black or dark grey if you can.
(http://www.ingramandfriends.com/images/bikes/better-bandit.jpg)
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Looking good.
It is starting to look more like a normal naked bandit, and your costs to date appear pretty modest. The ticking could be the cam chain, or the valve clearance. You should make sure the cam chain tensioner is not seized, and check the valve clearances. Both are not that difficult.
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I sold my 1982 Honda Ascot Ft500 and now it is full steam ahead. I have money for tires and I will be getting them later this week. I need a chain and I need brake pads all the way around but those are my biggest expenditures. I did get the title straightened out and in my name because as you know "the job's not finished until the paper work is done." It was not as expensive as the Ascot title, I think in part because the Ascot was older and hadn't been registered in a very long time.
I am working on the plastic tail piece. It has been really beat to hell. It has gouges and ripples in it and I have work a lot of them out but I am not too hung up on cosmetics right now. my goal is to make it streetable and safe. This winter I'll strip it for paint and powder coating.
I am really looking forward to finally riding the bike.
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In my last post I told of my Ascot sale and how it provided money for some needed accessories like tires and title. I have been doing a bit of shopping and bought a new chain. The old one is junk but the sprockets look good. It seamed the the previous owner couldn't keep it off the ground and out of the ditches long enough to put any miles on it. I also purchased a new chain tool. It seems that riveted chains are here to stay so I might as well have the right tool for the job.
I have a running list of things that need doing before I ride. After the tire replacement I noticed a wet spot, on the ground, under the left fork. I added fork seals to my list. Here is what I have to do:
- Attach tail piece (make some .5" spacers)
- Install chain when I get it
- Install turn signals when I get them
- Replace fork seals when I get them
- Set valve clearance
- Set carb ballance
- Get tags (when the title comes in the mail)
- Get safety inspection
All this is a pain in the butt but it has to be done. I really want to change the oil and filter again too. I have put less than three miles on it total but the engine was full of gas when I got it and it can't be flushed too often for me.
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Hey Jim,
A couple of money saving ideas for you.
Lifting the front of the bike to get access to tires and forks etc:
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=5937.0
It's a homemade front stand that we used to do the same things to a 919 with no centerstand.
And, though it sounds like more than a weep (because there's fluid on the ground) it's worth trying the old "film trick" with the forks. Run a piece of 35mm film under the seals to see if a rock or sand got lodged in there and is holding the seal open. I know Ryan uses some sort of spray fluid to help it along,.. brake clean or something. I'm sure someone here will pipe up with the method.
And you know how to make a carb balancing tool if you don't own one, right? it's just tubing, a ruler, some fittings and some fluid.
http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp
and http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=2355.0
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looking good man! paint those guage pods so they dont stand out so much
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Yep, I gotta paint those gauges. First I have to paint over the green tank. I got the tail piece painted and mounted. Today I picked up the tags. It is a good day. I was thinking of cutting the clocks down a bit. Most of the bottom part of the bullet shape is just wasted space and it causes the instruments to be unnecessary high. Maybe I'll get a used eBay set to carve up for practice.
I also mounted so cheap LED turn signals and i am making a bracket the hangs the front turn indicator just below the headlight assembly. They stay tucked in and are unobtrusive. New pictures soon!
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Today was a big mile stone. I got the inspection. The title came in the mail last week and I ran out and got the tags. It took a few more days to rebuild the forks and a fix the turn signals but today I was able to take it up the road to get the state vehicle inspection that is so necessary to ride of the street around here.
The title stated that the bike had previously held a California re-builders title. When I purchased it it had been wrecked in Texas. The very fact that this bike keeps getting thrown down and keeps getting back up has earned it the name "Roller Girl" from those Roller Derby Queens that get knocked down and bloodied but who keep getting back up to roll on.
As for today's shake down ride, first the good news. She is pure rolling hell. It it's only a 600 but as the revs climb she just keeps making speed. The wide bars make her easy to handle and the few turns I pushed her into she tracked true and easy. Now the bad. On the way back I lost the shift knob from the cheap ass rear-sets. I was fortunate that it happened when I was down shifting from a high speed run and I had just dropped into first to turn off on my dirt road. I was able to ride 15 mph in first for the mile of dirt riding required to reach the house. The second teething problem is the petcock. There is no off position only on, prime and reserve. I gotta do something about that. One thing the bike had when I got it was a belly full of gas. If there is no off position and the vacuum petcock has been disable it really needs an off position to be safe.
All in all it was a successful trip all be it a short one.
(http://www.maximmotorcyclesupply.com/images/news/inspected.jpg)
It's dirty already!
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She's doing well! :clap:
Well done with your efforts, it's really paying off.
As for the fuel tap, the "On" and "Reserve" positions only allow fuel through when the 4th carb provides a vacumme, i.e when the bike is running. There should be no fuel passing through the tap when it is in either of these positions and she's not running.
The fuel will only flow of it's own accord and fill the belly up with fuel if she's left on "Prime".
This is why when removing the tank it is only nessesary to put the tap to either the "On" or "Reserve positions to stop fuel coming out. :thumb:
Hope this helps somewhat.
Keep at it!
Bullet5.
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When I removed the tank I had gas flow on all three position. I opened up the petcock and all looked good. I tested it with my handy, hand held vacuum pump and it holds vacuum and opens the valve. I added a little heaver helper spring to keep the valve closed and I am no longer passing fuel in the "on" and the "reserve" positions. I tested this configuration and it works well.
I am stripping the tank down to the metal with a chemical stripper. The previous owner had stripped the tank by either heavy sand paper or wire wheel. It is a mess under the nasty green paint and would never have looked right even with a hundred coats of paint. It will take some time and a lot of elbow grease but it will look a lot better in the end.
It is getting there. It is going to be a really fun and practical bike.
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OK, so the tank is stripped but there are huge scratches from where the previous owner used a heavy disk to remove the original paint. I am the world's worst painter. I just do not have the patents for it. Plus the tank has a fist sized dent just aft of the filler and another on the right side just behind the steering dimple. They are filled with Bondo but are just not contoured right. I sanded the tank and put a couple of coats of semi-gloss black on it. I am going to put it back on the bike and ride it, warts and all. This winter, If I like the bike well enough and if I can get the funds together, I'll strip it down and get a real body expert to fix the tank and paint the whole thing. I hate the way the tank looks but it pretty much matched the rest of the bike with its rattle can frame paint job.
I wana ride not rub on it!
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Since last I posted I had put several hundred miles on my B6 and I knew something was wrong. Prior to installing the stage 1 kit I got from Holeshot I had cleaned the carbs, blown air and carb cleaner through all the jets and fixed the choke rack that was installed wrong. I knew the PO had been into the carbs but I didn't think it was anything too serious. More about this later. I got the bike going and it ran OK but not great. I have no prior bench mark for this bike have never owned one or even ridden one. My verdict was that it was not as crisp as if should be. From all that I knew and read, the bike should be super lean but it was running rich.
I installed the Holeshot stage 1 kit, which made an already rich condition worse and it ran worse. I knew, from the terrible gas mileage, that I had a fuel problem but where was it going? Off came the carbs again. I figured I missed something. A forum search turned up a post that suggested checking for wear in the needle jets. (not the needles but the jets they slide into.) The post said that sometimes, in high mileage bikes, these openings wear oval and start to run rich in mid range. At this point I am grasping at straws so I am going through looking at each carb, #1, fine, #2, fine, #3 fine, #4 no jet at all. What? Yep, the jet was gone. I hadn't noticed it because I wasn't looking for it. I had taken it for granted that it had a jet in there. It is the #4 plug that has always shown to be rich. I was just dumbfounded. The needle on #4 was just going up and down in a barrel. I can only surmise that changing main jets from 92 to 95 (as are in the stage 1 kit) made that condition worse as well.
I ordered a needle jet from BikeBandit.com. The jet came in the mail today and I cast off all work (I work out of the house) and ran to the shop. I installed the jet, reinstalled the second spacer under the needle (I had removed this thinking it might be the problem) and put everything back together as per the stage 1 kit spec sheet. The first impressions are promising. On the dirt road the little minx wants to squirt sideways on throttle. It wants to loft its front wheel too which it has never really wanted to do. A fast ride around the block shows good throttle response, smooth power, smooth cruising speed and a lot more lower end. It is not torque exactly but it has more grunt out of corners in second and third. I love it when they just run better and better. Now it needs attention to the pilot jet settings and I think I need to sync the carbs again. (what a drag.)
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I got the bike buttoned up and set up. I put 80 miles on it Saturday and it was great FUN. I can't explain it but it just felt right. The little beast will scoot when you wind it up a bit. I got 58 miles per gallon were before I got 28 mpg and I was running 70 and sometimes more. I am surprised that the bike ran as well as it did with one whole jet missing. That gas must have been just poring through that missing jet hole. The Holeshot kit made the rich condition much worse but it also sent me off to really look for the cause. I was playing with the bike and noticed that top three gears are really close together. Then I noticed that the vibrations in the handlebars diminished around 7 grand. I started to play with the shifter, like riding a two stroke, and found amazing power and comfortable grips up the rev range. Very fun. I don't know about riding in 5th but it may be more comfortable. I am going to dig the expanding foam out the the handlebar (that anti vibration remedy didn't work as well as I had hoped) and replace it with lead shot. That should help some.