Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => BIG BANDIT BANTER => Topic started by: H2RICK on July 26, 2009, 09:04:12 PM
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OK, folks, it's time to change my fork oil.......
However, Kayaba/Showa/Suzuki/whoever decided NOT to put external drain screws on the 3G/4G forks !!! Sooooo......you are supposed to pull the forks from the bike, remove the top caps/springs/etc and POUR the oil out of the top end of the stanchion. Then you have to dismantle the rest of the fork to properly clean it, etc. Of course, you ALSO have to replace the fork seals during this whole procedure. What a lame arrangement.
Yes, I know, Suzuki's intent was that you should check/replace the inner and outer slide "metals" while changing the oil.....but IF you could EASILY change the fork oil regularly the "metals" wouldn't need replacement as often !!!
After all this, my 2 big questions are:
1) has anybody out there in BanditLand modified his/her 3G/4G forks by adding some kind of external drain port ???
2) WTH is the REAL equivalent of Suzuki's recommended "99000-99001-SS8" fork oil ???
All contributions/opinions/rumours/hearsay gladly accepted. :roll:
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I can't help you but... NO DRAIN bolts what the @&*^! Good thing my 05 came with some... having to basically rebuild your fork to replace the fluid seems lame
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I read your post then examined my bike, WTF. That is all
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Not the end of the world. Get a long THIN tube and suck the fork oil out. I have not quite figure out what tube to use yet. Most likely, it'll be a long stiff metal tube that can reach the bottom of the fork. Then a flex hose going into a catch container. ANOTHER hose from the catch container going to a shop vac.
It should work. I cannot say it is my invention. Mercedes use the same concept to change motor oil. I have no intention to disassemble the whole front end, or turn the bike up side down.
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Get a long THIN tube and suck the fork oil out.
Sounds like an inventive idea, Bill, but my concern is how does one know when ALL the oil is out ?? Without being sure that all the oil is out it would be difficult to decide how much to put back in. And then there's the flushing-with-solvent thing to get rid of any crud.
There MIGHT be a way to do this on the bike by removing the cap and damper rod and letting the oil drain out the damper rod bolt hole at the bottom. Messy....but far simpler than dismantling the whole fork, IMO.
More investigation is required. I might have to be the "guinea pig" for all the 3G/4G Bandit owners worldwide ??? :grin:
Well, there's a 3 day long weekend coming right up so (if the weather doesn't let me go riding) it just might be an "interesting" way to spend a day in the garage. Riding looks like more fun but.....
Well, we'll see....
And then what the heck do I put back in for oil ??? I think a 15 weight fork oil would be a good guess, so I'll have to bring some of that home....just in case.... :wink:
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Get a long THIN tube and suck the fork oil out.
Sounds like an inventive idea, Bill, but my concern is how does one know when ALL the oil is out ?? Without being sure that all the oil is out it would be difficult to decide how much to put back in. And then there's the flushing-with-solvent thing to get rid of any crud.
There MIGHT be a way to do this on the bike by removing the cap and damper rod and letting the oil drain out the damper rod bolt hole at the bottom. Messy....but far simpler than dismantling the whole fork, IMO.
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And then what the heck do I put back in for oil ??? I think a 15 weight fork oil would be a good guess, so I'll have to bring some of that home....just in case.... :wink:
I have a very good answer for the quantity of fork oil to put in. My experience is that most bike manual say to put in some x volume of oil. Most likely, that is accurate enough. However, for the really anal retentive obsessive compulsive type like me, I have to have it dead on. I quickly learned that the volume in the two fork tubes are not necessary the same. The fork spring also do not always displace the same volume of fluid either. In the end, pouring the same amount of fluid into each fork tube with the fork spring will end up with different height at the top of the fluid. That is why many people kludge up a "dip stick" to measure the distance between the top of the fork tube and the top of the oil level. I used a car antenna. Some guy at the Concours forum used a fix length tube, same length as the distance of oil level desired, and suck off excess amount of oil and voila, same oil level at both forks tube. I put in the amount specified by the manual into one tube. Measure the oil level distance to the top of the tube, then add oil to the second fork tube until I reach the same distance.
As for what weight oil. I am happy with the damping of my fork now so I'll use the same viscosity.
One thing I did not considered.... My old Concours is just a fork tube with the slider and a progressive spring inside. From the top of the fork tube, I can reach all the to the bottom with a hose, or the fork spring, or whatever. There is no obstruction. Is that the case with the Bandit? Is there anything in there other than the fork spring that might get in the way? I'll have to look at the exploded drawing in the manual.
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OK,, I looked at the exploded diagram of the fork tube. There is a damper rod (inner rod) in the middle of the spring. The top of the damper rod is threaded. I think it is threaded into the bottom of the fork cap/preload adjuster. A damper rod lock nut hold it in place. At the bottom, there is a damper rod bolt. It is hidden inside the cavity where the front wheel axle resides. Once the front wheel axle is removed and the wheel removed, you can reach it from the bottom the fork tube. There is a hole for access. The manual's photos shows the damper rod can be remove and install this way.
Of course, the manual shows all the steps of REMOVING the fork tubes from the bike and do a full disassembly. If I have a gun now, I will shoot myself. That is one big ass procedure to change the fork oil. it is probable easier to drill a hole and tap some thread onto the hole and create your own drain plug.
BTW, There is a Suzuki special tool to adjust the oil level. They use a syringe to suck oil from a preset depth on a tube that dips into the oil.
The manual also go through a long process of "pumping" the assembly as oil is put in to get the bubble out of the damper. What a PITA !
I think the damper rod needs to be remove to clear the way for a sucking tube. It may not be necessary to be removed for adjusting the oil level, I think.
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I hope someone comes up with a better method. This is a PITA.
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This is a PITA.
You nailed it, Bill.
I guess I'll have to pull at least one of mine apart EVENTUALLY and check out the possibilities of drilling a suitable drain hole with a tapped portion to accept some kind of threaded plug.
I'm theorizing here but PROBABLY something in the 5mm size would be suitable for the plug.
Looks like the weekend is a go for riding here and MAYBE some of the boys will be up for a 2 day camping trip to the warm side of the rockies i.e. BC.
Well, we'll see.....
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At this moment, if we leave the fork tube in place, and try to remove the damper rod, it would require the wheel to come off to get access to the lower damper rod screw.
OK, so, I can accept the extra task of removing the wheel ..... However, .... Have not really look close at the drawing and the instruction in the shop manual (not that I would totally understand even if I look close). I am not sure how easy or difficult it is to pull out and install the damper rod. If that is easy, maybe it is not the end of the world yet.
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http://www.maximum-suzuki.com/forums/index.php/topic,69809.0.html
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Sorry, rworm, but your link won't let me view the post. That board wants me to log in with a user name..... :banghead:
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This prolly won't help much but... an excuse to rebuild and install a gold valve/spring combo. Won't help next change though.