Author Topic: What rear shock shall I use? (Read 10181 times)

2005B12S · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2006, 11:02:11 AM »

Smooth or finned reservoirs with stainless steel covered hoses can be added or retrofitted to most Works gas emulsion shocks. Hose lengths and fittings vary with application. All Works Shocks are custom-built to your riding weight, type of terrain and vehicle, so even the non-reservoir Works shocks will be a vast improvement over the stock shocks. Reservoirs are really a necessity if shock is run in long-distance races for hours at a time, or on extremely rough racetracks with motos of 20 minutes or more, or when operating temperatures exceed 175°F. If you purchase Works Performance shocks without reservoirs, but you decide at some future date that you need them, they can be added at that time.

Advantages: Works shocks are pressurized with nitrogen. Standard Works shocks are gas-emulsion type - that means that the nitrogen is charged into the oil. The remote reservoirs are attached to the shock through a hose that transfers oil. Inside the reservoir is a polyurethane bladder that separates the nitrogen from the oil. There are two avantages to this; One is that the oil capacity of the shock is increased, which aids in cooling the shock fluid and increases the service life of the oil; and the second is that the compression and rebound valving will stay consistent under the most severe of conditions.

The above is from their website. I have the Durasport with the remote reservoir. It lists for $550.

I am in the same boat, I bought the B12 for its powerplant. I knew it was gonna need some mods to get it like I wanted. That included major suspension help. I do not mind buying quality suspension components, I plan on keeping the bike and believe you do get what you pay for.

Red01 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 08, 2006, 01:03:01 PM »

Quote

2005B12S: Red, you are not in the market for a $500 shock and happy with your setup. OK. Understood.

Chaos stated he already has $200+ in the frond end with the Race Tech components. He is in the market for a shock and is contemplating the 420.

All I am saying is that if you are gonna spend $400 for a 420, look at the WP shock. It is in the $550 area, which is not that much more than the 420. It is a very nice unit.

No doubt this is not for everyone. A stock Busa shock is an acceptable street replacement, but in no way compares with a full aftermarket unit.

I'm not recommending the Busa shock for a 1G bike, and I have zero experience with the Progressive unit for either the 1G or the 2G. Going by hearsay from old posts here and other Bandit resources, I've been led to believe the 420's performance is about the same as a GSXR750 shock (as listed in the FAQ) that's in good shape. I'm guessing this is similar with the 2G and the Busa vs Progressive. So what I'm saying is if this is the level of shock performance you want, then why spend $400 when you can get it for <$100. If you're looking for the best shock you can buy, you shouldn't be looking at a Progressive.

Quote

As far as the Ducs, they have their purpose. Have you ever ridden one? My only experience with the brand is my newly aquired 1992 SS. It is a great machine, extremely light and torquey. With Pilot Powers, it will do anything on the street you ask of it. Not an everyday ride, but it has its place.

As far as racing, I have no clue. Rossi would win on any brand he rode. It's not all bike- see quote below.

No, I've never had an opportunity to ride one. I have no doubts they're a fine machine and most of them are eye candy... I'm just going by what I read, and from that, I can see no justification for their price. The have a reputation for high maintenance (in price and frequency), they don't kick-ass in magazine shootouts beyond positive comments for handling. Most models are touted as excellent torture racks if you ride one for very long. I need more than that out of a bike, so I've never even tried to get a test ride on one... now if someone has an Aprilia Futura they'll let me try out...

As far as racing, I'm not talking about MotoGP, granted Rossi is hot on anything, and there, the Duc's are doing OK, but these bikes, no matter what brand, are required to be like no production bike, so brand doesn't count for much here, since you can't buy a MotoGP replica. Superbike is where it comes closer to the showroom since they're actually based on something we can buy. Here Troy Bayliss/Ducati has been able to beat Troy Corser/Suzuki on the World Superbike front this year, but it's usually not by a long shot. OTOH, Ducati imported former WSB champ Neil Hodgson to the US for AMA Superbike last year and he seems to be having a tough time keeping sight of the front of the pack most of the time. Last year, he only managed one win, two seconds and three thirds out of seventeen races. This year isn't looking much better and Mladin hasn't been as dominating as last year. So it seems the Duc is no better than anything else. (Granted. Mladin and everone else out there aren't running stock suspension, but hopefully you get my point.) Looking at what privateers race, seems to further back up that Ducs aren't any better than anything else. You rarely see a Duc running without a major sponsor at pro levels.

2005B12S · « **Reply #17 on:** June 08, 2006, 04:05:10 PM »

At times there is too much of basing opinions on heresay. I try to base my opinions on what I know from experience rather than what I read.

Ducati's have their purpose, they are not everday street bikes. I would not have my 900SS if it was my only bike. I have 2 Suzuki's for everday machines. You have not ridden a Duc, neither had I untill my 900SS purchase 6mo. ago. It is a totally different ride, more low end grunt than my TL1000S with a flyweight chasis, real suspension and phenominal brakes. I have not ridden a 749 or 999, I can only imagine. Until you have ridden one, don't speak as though you know.

You only compare big bore twins with inline4's because you have not ridden a big twin sportbike. They are completely opposite in comparison. A typical 900SS has about 85-90bhp and weighs 400lbs with fuel. Powerband from 3500 to 8500 rpm. With premium rubber it is as flickable as you can get on the street. An absolute joy to ride .

It is a real testiment that the 4v Duc has come so far and is competitive at that level.

Sure they are expensive on maintence, they are Red and Italian. Give me a break, you don't buy an exotic and complain about the cost. The RC51 and TL1000 were both OK, but neither had the soul and spirit of a Duc. You cannot compare them

I'm not gonna debate racing, it's good to see all manafacturers running at that level. It only makes for better street bikes.

And last, there are just cool as $hit

Red01 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2006, 02:00:36 PM »

I not only compare the twins with the fours because I haven't ridden a sport twin (not since the RD350 was considered one anyway), I compare them against each other because they race against each other and the industry compares them that way, too. Is it hearsay when professionals compare bikes against each other? Seems to me it's kinda like an expert witness. Most of us can't go out and test every bike for ourselves so we have to rely on something, and magazine tests are the best most of us have. FWIW - the only true modern repli-racer I've ridden was a co-worker's CBR1000RR. It was pretty light and nimble (compared to the B12), but I don't want one due to the ergos. Had he not offered the ride, I never would have asked and I wouldn't go down to a shop and seek out a test ride. I'm not into track days, I'm into riding all day - or for days when I get the chance - and repli-racers just don't do it for me. Therefore, there's no need for me to go out and test one, regardless of brand or cylinder count.

Maybe you don't complain about the cost of ownership for your Duc, but I want a bike I can just put the key in and go and not have to fuss over it. Like I said before, I'm looking to get the most bang for my buck. I'm sure we agree that's not what Ducati ownership is about. If that means I'm destinted to never own a Duc, I can live with that. I'm never going to buy a Ferrari either. I just think the "it's red and it's Italian" is a rediculous excuse when there's machines out there that offer similar performance for a much lower cost of ownership... it's almost as bad as the HD excuses.
(I'd buy a Duc before a HD anyday - but I'd probably buy an Aprilia just because they aren't as maintenance intensive...
...and they're high-performance Italians available in red.)

As the old Yamaha ad copy and line from the Sly & the Family Stone song goes:
Different strokes for different folks.

2005B12S · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2006, 03:54:33 PM »

Pretty hard to determine actual maintence costs without having owned one. I admit, you do hear horror stories. But, maintence compared to what?

Today, all high end sport bikes have shim under bucket valvetrains. I have not priced a service on a modern 16v liter bike- but it can't be cheap. Not too easy to work on either. Sure the adjustments are less frequent but are just as costly. Never pulled cams on a bike like this- can't be fun.

My only experience is with the 2v 900SS. Cam belts on the 2v Duc get changed every two years or 12,000, valves checked every 6,000. I just had both done, $325 incl belts. With the kind of mileage I do, valves once a year and belts every other. Plugs, tires, chain, oil ect. just like any other sportbike.

Not really excessive for an exotic ride with tons of personality.

I do not expect a "meat and potatoes" kind of guy to understand that. They simply make some of the lightest, best handling sport bikes on the planet. Period

Red01 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 09, 2006, 04:47:57 PM »

Shim valves go a lot longer than that. Some over 20K miles & 15K is pretty average. Even then, the shim valve don't usually move much, if at all. Seems like Ducati has stuck with the Desmo thing as a gimmic since they've been able to open and close valves at very high rpm (higher than any Duc has ever spun) without floating with springs since before Ducati even made the switch. (Honda was spinning motors to 18-20K in the 60's, Ducati went to desmodromics in 1973.) If they went back to "normal" valve operation, I'm sure their maintenace intervals would be more respectable. One thing I've wondered about Ducs - if cars can have cam belts last 100K miles and HD's can have lifetime drive belts, why do Duc cam belts have to be changed so freakin' often?

Don't get me wrong, I like the sound of Ducs and the looks of most of them and I think yours is a sweet looking machine. No doubt it's a hoot to ride. (Aren't they ALL fun in some way?) If someone gave me one, I wouldn't put it up for sale right away. I might even buy one if the right bargain came my way... but that holds true for a lot of things I might not normally buy.

But back to the origal subject... Bandit suspension. Isn't putting high end suspension on a Bandit like putting ballet slippers on a WWF wrestler?

2005B12S · « **Reply #21 on:** June 09, 2006, 09:44:50 PM »

Quote

But back to the origal subject... Bandit suspension. Isn't putting high end suspension on a Bandit like putting ballet slippers on a WWF wrestler?

Your freckin right about that, somehow I knew you would get the last word.

Desmo On, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED
1992 900SS

Red01 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:13:18 PM »

And the last emoticon...

IcyChaos · « **Reply #23 on:** June 12, 2006, 05:45:42 PM »

thanks for that info red on the gsxr 750 and the 420 being similar.

So now im considering grabbing the 750 GSXR shock, or buying the WP shock with reservoir, $550.

2005B12S · « **Reply #24 on:** June 12, 2006, 08:18:30 PM »

The spring on the WP shock dwarfs the wimpy stock unit. Very noticable difference. No disappointments - very impressed with quality and fit. Used the left footpeg attachment point to mount the reservior.

Gold valves soon, road test will have to wait for next month.

Good Luck, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED
1992 900SS

PaulVS · « **Reply #25 on:** June 12, 2006, 09:06:51 PM »

I just think it's sad that there is only the choice of a used 'Busa shock off ebay for $30.... or a Progressive/Works/Ohlins for $400-750... and nada in between.

Seems to me someone is missing a big market in 'cycle shocks.

2005B12S · « **Reply #26 on:** June 12, 2006, 09:22:28 PM »

I agree, and why do you think that there are a zillion $30 Busa shocks on ebay?

Appears the Busa owners sure don't want them

Desolation Angel · « **Reply #27 on:** June 12, 2006, 09:37:01 PM »

Quote from: 2005B12S

I agree, and why do you think that there are a zillion $30 Busa shocks on ebay? Appears the Busa owners sure don't want them

Large numbers of wrecked and crashed 'Busas being parted out, I would think. Too much for too many to handle. Crunch!

Besides, what the 'Busas lose, the Bandit 1200s gain! The Hyabusa shock is a vastly superior shock to the 2nd gen Bandit shock. A whole other level of product. The difference is astounding. I considered a more expensive aftermarket shock like you got, but decided it wasn't appropriate to spend that much on a three year old bike (when I got my '01), not to mention the Bandit wasn't an expensive bike to begin with.

I guess I'd go aftermarket Works if I still had my Beemer or some other equally expensive bike. I wish you would've tried the Hyabusa shock 1st, then the Works, so I could get a comparison review. That would be interesting.

Red01 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 13, 2006, 11:03:40 AM »

Quote

2005B12S: I agree, and why do you think that there are a zillion $30 Busa shocks on ebay? Appears the Busa owners sure don't want them

I think it has something to do with drag racing mods... Seems a lot of the Busa shocks on eBay come with the cushion lever bellcrank and a set of adjustable lowering links... so it would seem to me that they are changing their whole setup for some reason. Why else would they be ditching the bellcrank? Lowering links on a Bus usually mean someone is into either drag racing or straightline top speed competition.

Maybe a member here who also frequents a Busa board can answer that question.

IcyChaos · « **Reply #29 on:** June 13, 2006, 11:32:49 AM »

I don't know what kind of swapout I should go with. My main concern is that it will be too stiff regardless of preload adjustment. I would rather have too soft instead of too stiff for safety reasons.

My buddy did a swapout with this ninja, and its too stiff, the sag is less than half an inch, like racetrack setting. this is why I'm not sure if I should try the busa or GSXR shock.

Anyways Most people just say buy this, or buy that, and its only because they own the part there telling me to buy. Would anyone tell me what their SAG is on their rear shock compared to their rider weight.

A busa shock might be great for 2 up riders, or someone over 250lbs, but Im at 190, wouldn't a busa shock be too stiff?

I guess I'll just buy something and try it out.........