Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: b4cruz on July 12, 2005, 03:23:09 AM
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where did the b12 engine block come from?
does it share a block with other suzuki's?
With all the other models in thier line up,
how much longer will Suzuki sell this engine
before they upgrade/modernize it?
An affordable shafty FI B12 would eat up
all of BMW's market with proper marketing.
Maybe a rebirth as a GS1200G or GS1400G with fuel injection?
Or just keep the bandit name with shafty ultimate tourer option
and easy maintenance (hinged tank)!
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The motor I believe dates back to about 1986 and became famous in the GSXR under Kevin Schwantz in 1988. After upgrading the GIXXER for water cooling the motor found a home in various sport oriented bikes. Its lived in the gixxer, katanas, bandits, and a model I don't know much about, the RF. The motor is very stout and trouble free so Suz has kept it in the lineup. I think the only thing that will kill it will be emissions.
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The B12 motor is basically the same as the 1127cc GSXR1100 and GSX1100F Katana with a 1mm overbore (the Kat has a different clutch though). Another engine in the same family is the GSX1100G which has a counterbalancer and shaft drive. All these are very closely related to the 1052cc GSXR1100 which preceeded them as well as the GSXR750 and 600/750 Katanas.
The RF900 is not related as its watercooled. IIRC, the RF9 motor is related to the later GSXR waterpumper lumps.
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I didn't know that about the rf. Of course its fully faired so you can't see much of the motor. I've only seen 2 or 3 around, it seemed a strange model. Its not a gixxer yet its got pretty racy ergos for sport touring. Was this replaced by the TL which got replaced by the SV?
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I believe there was a year of so gap between the RF900's last year ('95?) and the TL-S's first year ('97?)... while both are sporty bikes, but not repli-racers, the difference between the engine designs doesn't seem like the TL was intended to be a RF replacement. I think the slow sales of the RF9 caused it's demise and popularity of V-twins as well as Superbike rules of the day made Suzuki come up with the TL series.
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that's what i wanted to know
I saw a 1100G in my neighborhood the other day
i thought it'd be a great touring bike
but the lines on a b12 are so much better
has anyone ever mounted the 1100G engine
with the shaft successfully into a bandit frame?
i couldn't find the RF9 here: http://www.suzukicycles.org
but i did here: http://www.motoreview.ru/archives/2003/08-03/Suzuki%20RF900/Suzuki%20RF900.htm
is the RF frame similar to the old GSXRframe?
the RF400 engine the same as the b4V engine right?
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i saw an RF900 blue and white on the road
its like a suzuki testarossa fairing
I thought it was a custom job
http://www.dvmoto.ru/images/archiv_foto/suzuki/rf900/rf900_2.JPG
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Nothing against BMW except maybe their price and reliability as I really do like them but ...
a GSX1100G with the right fairing and the right marketing would make much sour krauts. :grin:
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A BMW buyer/owner is typically anti-Japanese (not the people, the bikes) and is euro-bike buyer. The common reason being is that japanese bikes have no soul. Depends on what you want.
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yup the 1100G would be fun next time i see the one in south county, i'm gonna leave a note to see if its avaiable for sale. I could side car it, sport tour it lots of uses. Its sad suzuki the company that pretty much made shafties reliable only uses shafties in its cruisers. The japanese car makers all have thier M3 eaters lan evo and sti. They just need to make a R1200GS killer now in a dual purpose shafty. Its probably because the market in the USA for dual purpose isn't as profitable as the sportbikes and cruisers; why waste money on development. Japanese companies don't make anything unless the americans will go nutso over it.
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I had a GSX1100G befor my Bandit. My brother bought it and loved it. It was heavy,long,but a sleeper. My sister-in-law hit it with their car (while he was on it ) my brother was going to get away from a argument befor he belted her. So I helped him fix it and she ran over it again a yr or so later over another argument :crybaby: (do'nt know how he can stand that woman!) I refuse to help fix it again.Its sits in the garage,bent bars,dented tank,broken gages,bent forks. The motor and drive shaft are good. I'm sure it would go cheap,just to get it out of the garage,if someone was to make a project bike. The side car idea would be a good one. Dan
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There is a nice GSX1100G at one of the local dealerships here. It is in quite nice conditiion. I personally would probably go on a one person killing spree if someone did that to my bike especially my wife. Also I could not stay with my wife if she did that to one of my bikes, none the less twice! :stickpoke:
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There is a nice GSX1100G at one of the local dealerships here.
you guys are too far away from me to even look at those models
plus i spent a lot on my b4 already
but a good project for the future with the help of this site
since its a sister engine
also since its too long & heavy as said already to compete with a
b12 as a dual sport the sidecar option for a better cheaper easy maintenance alternative to a car/grocery getter sounds SO FUN!
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To me, the newer BMW models have little 'soul' or character.
I think the statement about 'soul' was true only with the older BMW models.....
I've put a few miles on an 1150RT, and found it totally without character, or any charm, to be much more 'plastic' than my bargain basement B12. Yeah, it had a lot of gadgets...buttons...levers....swathed in plastic
Just like the Harley guys, a lot of BMW owners are real 'brand conscious'. The name on the tank means a lot more than the sum of the parts.......
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i think in the old days Beemers had soul. The riders rode them and rode them hard. I always thought it was cool that whenever I saw a used Beemer it had lots of miles on it and rather beat up looking. The automobile division has a lot more influence now and its showing.
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There was a GSX1100G with a Ural sidecar for sale around here a couple of years ago.
Putting a "G" motor in a B12 would be interesting, the tough part would be adapting the shaft/swingarm. I haven't seen anyone do it, but I have dreamed of adding the G's shaft drive parts to my B12. If you were good at fabrication, I'm sure it could be done. If I could add that and some good looking detachable bags (sorry, the Givi's don't do it for me), I wouldn't lust after a FJR.
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To me, the newer BMW models have little 'soul' or character.
I think the statement about 'soul' was true only with the older BMW models.....
I've put a few miles on an 1150RT, and found it totally without character, or any charm, to be much more 'plastic' than my bargain basement B12. Yeah, it had a lot of gadgets...buttons...levers....swathed in plastic
Just like the Harley guys, a lot of BMW owners are real 'brand conscious'. The name on the tank means a lot more than the sum of the parts.......
Pete: You are right on the money with your " Just like the Harley guys, a lot of BMW owners are real 'brand conscious'." I rode with a group of Beemers for awhile. In their mind, there is only ONE brand of bike and that's BMW. Being the odd man out with a B12S, I was tolerated but never really accepted. They would talk Beemer banter when we stopped at lunch, ie. all the factory latest news mechanics etc. They had no interest in anything else on two wheels. Like Harley guys, they subdivided their own Marque... only the opposed twins were interesting, (as Harley "truists" sneer at the V rod). The boxer boys also rode like outrageously civilised little old ladies.
Still, all of us are/were totally transparent to the Harley guys that stopped... they went out of their way to never actually look in our direction or make eye contact even in the restaurant.
I've had a lot of bikes and the acceleration thrill of riding a rocket is a rush. :bouncy:
With a remote chance on the K1200RS? sport tourer, the Beemers "don't have it". They have a LOW power to weight ratio and are way overpriced.
Mike
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Hey a missus who runs over your bike not once but twice must be grounds for justifiable homicide.