Author Topic: slight play in front end....normal? (Read 3641 times)

shrike · « **on:** August 07, 2007, 10:50:57 PM »

Just wanted to check with you guys before I waste my time bringing it to the dealership.

My 2005 Bandit 1200 has 6000 km's on it. Purchased new this year and I guess it always stayed inside.
There is a slight play in the front end when I move the forks or I apply the brakes and push on the handle bars.
I thought it was the headbearings but I tightened the headbearings...and even after tightening a lot it still had the small play. I of course untightened the headbearings and put it like a 1/16 of a turn tighter. I did it per the manual...loosened the 2 top yoke bolts also.
Thyen I checked the torque on the 4 bottom yoke bolts. I loosened them and tightened them at the right torque.

I know this symptom can be caused by loose parts in the suspension...but at that low mileage? How can I check for play in suspension and be sure it is that or it is not?

I did hit a few bumps that were bad but still....

Anything else i can check?

ZenMan · « **Reply #1 on:** August 08, 2007, 02:57:21 PM »

On a hard, level surface, put the bike up on the centerstand.

Have a buddy push down on the rear seat, lifting the front wheel off the ground. (have your buddy keep their foot on the centerstand lever just in case)

Squat down in front of the wheel and grasp the lower fork legs, one in each hand. Try shaking them front to back, then side to side, looking for any play.

If you don't feel play, grab the front wheel and shake it.

If you do feel play, then grasp the down-tubes and do the same thing.

Just keep shaking and looking until you find where it's loose.

shrike · « **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2007, 06:48:52 PM »

Thanks zenman.
It;'s exactly what i did but my method stopped at pulling and pushing on the lower fork legs. I can't put that much leverage on the fixed tubes but I'll try again.

I went to a dealership today and explained him the problem but it was closing time and he said to pass by next week. Anyways I'll visit another dealership tomorrow but until then I might try again see where the play is exactly

shrike · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2007, 08:26:58 PM »

I am getting the runaround.
One guy said he thought it was steering bearing play so he said to re-tighten and come back to see him if the play is still there.
I checked today with two guys at work and the play is in the fork legs.
I went to see another dealership so this was the conversation.

Me: I have a slight play in the fork legs on my bike, can you check it.

Service guy: Let me take it for a spin and see

Service guy (comes back): Your tire is too soft.

Me: I checked it yesterday, it was 36.

Service guy: The suspension is too soft then.

Service manager: They are soft, it's a sport tourer, you can change oil with stiffer oil.

Me: Can we check the play, someone has to push on the back of the bike to lift the front wheel.

We check the play, you can feel it around the fork leg joints.

They: It's normal
Me: My KLR did not have that, when there was a play like that I knew my headbearing was loose.

They: Yeah but it's a different bike.

me thinking (a suspension is a suspension, not much difference, they are both normal forks not inverted)

Service guy: We can check a new one.
Me: let's go

We check first bandit : 2006 1200

Service guy: I feel a very slight play, less than yours.

Me (after trying): I don't really feel any play.

Service guy: Oh that one seems to have a reinforced fork (it did have some feature in the lower portion of the fork), let's try that one next to it...seems to have same suspension as yours.

Me: ok

Service guy: No it does not have any play but it's a 2007, not same year as yours. We don't have any 2005 to try though. Your play is normal.

We chatted a bit about bikes and everything, (guy had a KLR too ). I was nice to him but very disappointed in my head.

So they were nice but I would never leave my bike at that dealership for repairs. Maybe just order parts cause they were fast.

So now I'll go back to the same dealership I went the first time and tell them to check it again. I hope they will see there is a problem. If not maybe get something written down from another mechanic. Last option is to go where I bought the bike but that is far a bit.

ZenMan · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2007, 10:09:01 PM »

Sounds like a runaround alright.

But have you been able to pinpoint where the play is? Is it in the fork legs, or the steering head bearings, or what?

shrike · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2007, 11:37:27 PM »

It seems to be really in the fork legs. You can feel that play if you wrap your fingers around where the seals of the fork legs are (on the downtubes)

ZenMan · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2007, 01:54:30 AM »

Ok, if you are absolutely sure that the play is in the down tubes and NOT the steering head bearings, then at least you have it pinpointed.

Some people would tell you to put a fork brace on it and consider it fixed. That might help, but you're still not supposed to have any looseness in the forklegs period. So it's just a band-aid.

The proper next step is to disassemble the forks and inspect all internal parts. Whether you can get the dealer to do it is another story. They can be real jerks... your best chance is to find a dealer thar will honor their warranty obligations... it can be tough.

If you have a professional mechanic do it, and he/she finds any defective parts, or finds that the forks were assembled inproperly, then you may have some ammo to use towards getting the dealer to cover it under warranty. You'd really have to be able to prove it beyond any question. Then I doubt you'd get them to pay your mechanic's bill.

Personally I'd pull it apart myself, but I'm fortunate to have experience wrenching, and it can be a daunting task to someone without the patience or aptitude. But it can be done if youi have a good manual.

shrike · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2007, 08:39:24 AM »

I wouldn't mind doing it but I am on vacation next week and would like to go somewhere. The play is not that big that I can't use the bike but I hope it won't get bigger.

I wouldn't be afraid getting my hands dirty and taking it apart but it's still under warranty and until now I have not taken any suspension apart. I have more experience with engines( I already changed the crankshaft in the Nighthawk I had). If winter was closer to the doorstep I might have considered as a solution during those times I got nothing to do.

I can get them to pay the bill if all the dealers refuse to do the work but I would have to sue them. Like you say I would have to find a mechanic who's willing to fix it and go testify in court with me. It's not hard but it's a bit annoying. I also wouldn't need a lawyer if i go to smnall claims court (7000$ and below)

We'll see what happens today. Even if they recognize the problem I will have to bring it back for repairs after my week of vacation

Blade · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2007, 11:55:21 AM »

Hey shrike,

There is always a small amount of play between the inter and outer fork tubes. It is hard to feel when you start tugging on fork legs. You have to go slow to feel it.

When it starts becoming excessive, you can start to feel it when braking.

This is based on the fact you have set your head bearings.

shrike · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15, 2007, 12:47:43 AM »

I was gone for a few days camping. Just today i did 1000 km but it's very tiring. I don't know how people do 1000 miles on a bike. I think I'll sleepf for two days now!!
You only feel it when you go slow at it but the play seems a bit excessive to me although it's not big. I checked on new bikes and there was no play at all. I'll try to see a mechanic for bikes who's independent of any brand. Given that he's been repairing bikes for 25 years now he should have a bit more experience than me. I just have to take an appointment with him,

Blade · « **Reply #10 on:** August 15, 2007, 04:04:36 PM »

On the new bikes, did you get the front wheel off the ground to check them?

If you are getting the problem under braking, you may have worn sliders.

shrike · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2007, 10:55:46 AM »

When checking on new bikes I took the wheel off the ground (someone was pushing on the back of the bike).
I don't really feel it under braking but I THINK (I am not quite sure), that I feel it in some turns on bad roadsurfaces

shrike · « **Reply #12 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:37:19 PM »

Finally some good news...I went Wednesday to see a motorcycle mechanic who works at home or he can go to someone's house and work on his bike. He's good and has a good reputation among some guys I know who have motorcycles. Anyways, I showed him the bike and he said it's not normal and I should go see his brother who's the service manager at A suzuki/Honda dealership. The place is really small but the guys seem to be much better at their job than those I saw until now. I think they know their stuff. The place is called Suzuki Repentigny for anyone who is near Montreal

I apparently have to pay for the forks' oil but i did notg want to contest that. Parts will be ordered and they'll call me whenever they are ready to fix it. I will put progressive springs (I pay for them) and heavier synthetic oil.
We'll see after the repair how everythjing goes but I am pretty confident in those guys.

ZenMan · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:27:51 PM »

That's great news. It's too bad you had to go through all that with those other guys. It seems good, honest, professionals are few and far between. But if these guys work out, then you're all set.

shrike · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2007, 12:22:01 AM »

Yeah I hope it works out, I am pretty sure it will. I really don't understand how dealerships hire their techs. Those big shiny dealerships have very poor trained people, but good ones you find in some small ugly place. On the other hand I was always unlucky with garages, even those that were reputable to be good so we'll see if badluck will get in my way