Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: tacoman on May 23, 2006, 01:57:17 PM
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My B6 obviously sat too long or perhaps the last batch of gas I put in wasn't real fresh. Went for a ride this weekend and it had a bad miss. Never did clear up. I'm thinking grrrr, I don't want to pull and clean carbs. I remember some posts from awhile back where somebody said they had good results adding some Chevron Techron gas additive. It wasn't cheap ($8 for a little bottle), but it worked. I put it in, rode around awhile to get it in the carbs then put it away. Started it up last night and we're back to normal!
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sounds to me like your gonna have to take em off and clean em mate. :boohoo: :boohoo:
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sounds to me like your gonna have to take em off and clean em mate. :boohoo: :boohoo:
Sounds to me like the carb cleaner worked... maybe I'll try some.
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Its been a week with the carb cleaner in (Chevron Techron) and all is good, runs like it used to. That little $8 bottle saved a lot of work I hate to do (pulling and cleaning carbs).
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holy smokes...sounds like a good plan to me, maybe I'll try it out with my GSF400..
can provide a more detailed description on this Chevron Techron carb cleaner? maybe a picture/link ?\
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Sea Foam works as well, if you have any on hand. Used as a stabilizer in boats with no problems. :beers:
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I don't have a pic but if you go to an auto parts store its the only Chevron product. It says Chevron Techron right on the bottle. It will be about triple the price but I figure you get what you pay for. The others are like $2 a bottle and just claim to be an additive, not a real cleaner. I was surprised how little there is in carb cleaners anymore, probably due to fuel injection. All the good strong stuff is gone.
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This is what you need:
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/additives/concentrate_plus.shtml
I've also used sea foam and had no problems with it.
-Vadim
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hi guys
i use those every other oil change.
did you put in a whole bottle of the cleaner in a tank of gas or just half. the reason i ask is the rocommended (on the botthe) is 1 bottle of cleaner per 12-15 gallons.
thanks
AE
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I topped off my tank and put the whole bottle in. I rode a few miles to get the stuff mixed in and then let it sit about 3 days. I then rode it for a few hours then topped off again to dilute the mixture a bit. It still seemed to run a bit rough but then I went on a good 300 mi. ride with several gas stops and all is good now.
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I'm always having problems with my carbs too. The bike doesn't want to idle at all and when I run it around, it sounds like it'll only run on three cylinders or something. Runs very rough and it isn't smooth at all. First time this happened was after a long winter when it sat. I brought it to a dealer nearby (mistake #1) and it hasn't really run good since. After the dealer season, it sat again and this time I just ran it a lot and put a lot of gas through it. Eventually it kind of fixed itself but never really ran quite like when it was new.
Now it has had a while to sit, didn't get to ride much last season at all for too many reasons. I want to drain the carbs first and the tank, put new gas in with some Chevron I picked up a while back and see if I can do something to fix it myself. I'm looking for suggestions pretty much on how to go about this easily first before I start to really mess things up.
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I work on vintage bike carbs for a living and see this issue all the time. The Techron product is a good one but it won't work if your bike sat all winter with gas in the carburetors and the gas really gummed up. Before totally disassembling the carburetors and cleaning them, I would REPLACE the jet needles which gum up easily due to their small diameter holes and use some Seafoam in the gas (or the Techron) to see if it helps clear up the problem. Both Techron and Seafoam are petroleum distillates and won't harm the engine. Don't over-use either product... apply it in the proportion to your gas as suggested by the manufacturer.
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Can I replace these jets somewhat easily? Without messing up the synchronization? I have experience with older carbs from outboard motors. The jet orifices are really just small screws with really small ported openings in those older carbs. Am I going to be looking at something similar? I've worked on Yamaha outboards which first went into production in 1984 and they aren't that old.
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Yup, same sort of thing in these carbs, too.
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Small brass jets that sit in a well are sometimes a little hard to remove especially if someone has stripped the head a tad. Best to be real careful to use the CORRECT screwdriver. Put the handle of the screwdriver in a set of long vise grips and push DOWN on the handle of the screwdriver to make sure it stays seated in the slot and turn the vise grips easily to give you a bit of leverage. Almost all balky pilot jets will come out with a little "snick" as they unstick from the thread... the brass gets galled on the aluminum and this means that it is lightly bonded to the aluminum and you need to take care when removing. Heat can also be used as that breaks the galled surfaces loose a bit.
If your jets were gummed up, it is generally best to replace them rather than attempt to clean them. Chemicals will sometimes NOT get all the goo out and the tool for removing goo is a set of wire lengths with serrations on the edge. While these work well, they will tend to remove brass as well.
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Do I have to remove the carbs from the bike to do this and if so what happens when they go back on as far as synching them up or whatever. I can tell you this much, the shop that worked on them last supposedly used some sort of parts cleaner to clean the carbs. He mentioned something about an acid bath or whatever. To clean out everything. I'm starting to realize what a hugh mistake it was to have them even touch the damn thing. They are a Suzuki dealer too. I never learned my lesson from the last bike.
:duh:
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You might be able to change jets with the carbs still on, but it'd be a PIA, especially if anything gives you trouble loosening up. It's worth pulling them out so you have plenty of room to work.
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Well crap then what is the procedure for getting them back on? I needs me a service manual pronto!
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Reverse of taking them off... the throttle cables will likely be a few moments of frustration, but less than trying to jet it with the carbs installed!
See the members area for a free d/l of the SM.
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Ok so I finally found the manual for my bike. It turns out I had it on a CD this whole time and forgot where I put it or that I had it. Common sense------> :stickpoke: <---- Me
Does the piston valve ever become an issue here? Also have any of you ever had a problem with the fuel valve on the tank? I'm thinking ethanol could do a number on some of those rubber parts in there. What if gas was always pouring out like when its in prime position? Or leaking out just enough to make it run rich and flood.
Float height. I see the measurements and specs but my question is this. When setting the float height on a carburetor for an outboard motor, the rule of thumb is parallel to the float body when held upside down. How exactly do most of you (Red01) do this?
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:clap:
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Fuel petcock problems aren't uncommon on the 400 Bandits due to their age. A few owners of older 600/1200's have reported problems, too. Usually related to the vacuum diaphragm in the petcock. Rebuild kits are difficult to come by for any of them. Choices boil down to finding a good used petcock or a new one - either OEM replacement or something from the aftermarket like a manual Pingel unit (they have vacuum ones, too).
I followed Bill's method (http://www.billsbikesnservice.com/float.htm) for adjusting my floats when I did my Stage II.
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I'm seeing some special tools in this manual when reading about carburetor servicing. Impact driver set for removing float chamber? It says nothing about how to use it or when putting the screws back in, how to or not to torque them, etc.
Is it necessary to remove the throttle valve? Why would anyone want to remove the plates in the carb body?
What parts in the diaphragm and piston unit should I and shouldn't I use carb cleaner on?
Thanks for all your help guys I'm trying to prepare myself ahead of time to be as quick and ready as possible.
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The factory installed phillips screws are notorious for being tight. Trying to remove them with a screwdriver often results in stripping the head of the screw. An impact screwdriver is a special tool you can by in many tool departments (mine came from Sears). You hit it with a hammer. This seats the tip firmly in the screw head, transfers shock thru the screw to jar loose thread locking compound and/or corrosion and turns the screw slightly.
Since the carbs are made of soft metal, it's better to try hitting with medium blows and work your way harder until they're free than to wail on them and end up damaging something.
As long as the carb cleaner you're using says it's safe for rubber parts, you can spray it anywhere. More caustic solutions, like carb dips, require you to remove all rubber parts.
If your carbs are gummed up, it would be a good idea to remove the slides (or piston valve as the manual calls it) so you can spray cleaner down the hole the needle goes into. It is normally not necessary to remove the butterfly (throttle valve in the book) as long as it moves freely.
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I have one of those and I can't for the life of me imagine why I would want to use an impact anything on something like a carburetor. So what I have to try and hold the carb and tool with one hand and swing the hammer with the other? I woudn't dare put the carbs in a vise.
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I squeezed my carbs between my legs while kneeling on the carpeted living room floor. I let the tops of the carbs (with the tops off and slides out) rest against the floor, so my legs were basically just stabilizing the carbs while I hit them. Even though my bike was less than six months old at the time, the float bowl screws still needed persuasion with the impact driver.
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Another method I have used many times in the past with stubborn bolts/screws is to use a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to carve a slot into the head. Then you can use a standard flat blade screwdriver to remove it.
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just to put my 2 cents in about carb cleaners...i dont know if any of you have heard about the product made by (its been awhile since i got it last, so my memory might be little off here) B&G from KS, (kansas, that is), called 45K, or K45. anyways, the stuff was highly praised on around (heard it mentioned while doing a track day, in the bike shop, while asking a guy at NAPAs about it, he said they were out and reffered to it as a 'mechanic in a can').
stuff one is to dump in the fuel and then run the bike...best results after 100 miles.
here is my question, wheres the best place for someone to order carb needles. my dealer isnt helpful at all...that is unless you're willing to hand over a month worth of pay and a bike for about a month. (so it can sit there for 29 days, and then they work on it 45min before you show up for a pickup)
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If your dealer isn't helpful for carbs parts like needles and jets, try SUDCO. (http://www.sudco.com/)
Tucker Rocky, Parts Unlimited & Western Powersports all carry the full line of Mikuni stuff, too, but you have to be a dealer to order from them since they're middle-man distrubutors. Chances are your dealer buys from at least one of these outfits already, but if they aren't helpful, you can try another dealer, even a non-Suzuki one.
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All of the work you guys did on the carbs, did it work. I need to do the same thing to my bike and I want to know what worked and what was a pain in the A$$?
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On my stock 2G B6, I shimmed the needles 0.5mm, drilled the pilot plugs and set the pilot jets at 2-3/4 turns out. Still stock mains.
A definite improvement in mid range and roll on performance. Well worth doing.
If your considering an aftermarket exhaust, it's almost a necessary change to put in a jet kit. Both Holeshot and Ivan's appear to have had good success with guys here.
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Well I got Dale's Stage 1 kit with 5° ignition advance and today I will install. Hopefully all goes well. I'm sure I'll have a few fits but the directions seem pretty straight forward so maybe it will be a tad easier than I expect it to be.
His directions claim you can take the carb bank off and swing it up onto the motor top w/o removing the cables and taking it off the bike completely. Anyone ever try this method? I'll give it a shot but since I intend to clean them most likely they're coming off the bike.
I also got the carb sync package he sells. Looks pretty straight forward, we'll see.