Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: BLK on June 02, 2008, 01:10:53 PM
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Chain tightening.
At the risk of once again revealing my ignorance of motorcycles, especially my own, I think I just figured something out.
But please correct me if I am wrong.
If I use my rear stand while tightening my chain I can then avoid the whole process of having to roll the bike forward with a wrench jammed in between the sprocket and chain in order to maintain the tension on the chain while tightening the axel.
It seems to me that by having the bike on the rear stand, set as far back on the swing arm as possible, you get roughly the same amount of flex in the swing arm as you would if the bike were on the ground but without any pressure on the wheel/axel, thus allowing the axel to move freely during adjustment.
I have tried this method three times on three different bikes with great results. (My Bandit 1200, a Katana 600 and a Nighthawk 750)
What say you all? Is this a method well established and I am just now figuring it out or am I getting what might be considered a false positive?
blk
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You also need to consider the weight of the rider.
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So what you are saying is that I should have someone sit on the bike while it's up on the rear stand? Well, that hardly sounds safe now does it.
All kidding aside I do take that into consideration it just seems a whole lot easier to compensate for that one variable than the two or three you have to consider otherwise.
blk
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Nothing wrong with using a rear stand...I just use the centre stand. Slightly tightening the axle and giving the rear tire a good boot will make sure the axle is all the way forward.
Remember that the tightest point will be when the countershaft sprocket, swingarm pivot and rear axle all line up, so even on the ground or rear stand you still need to leave approx 1-1/4" of slack.
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Actually you have to set the chain slack with both tires on the ground or you risk getting the chain to tight. The reason is the swingarm rotates on an arc. Which means as the swingarm moves up towards the seat, the rear sprocket moves further back which causes the chain to tighten.
If you want to adjust the chain on the center stand, I would recommend doing it first like you are supposed to with the wheels on the ground. Then using the tightest point in the chain, adjust to the correct slack. Now put the bike on the center stand, then using the same point in the chain that you adjusted to with the rear wheel on the ground, check your slack again and see what it is.
Then use this for your measurement when on the center stand. Just remember to always use the tightest point in the chain.
An easier way is to get a rear stand to lift the rear wheel off the ground a couple of inches using the swingarm and simulating the wheel on the ground. Also makes it easier to oil the chain.
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I just kept the bike on the kickstand when I adjusted the chain. Both wheels on the ground, and I just needed to work those biceps a bit more.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something though.
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I just kept the bike on the kickstand when I adjusted the chain. Both wheels on the ground, and I just needed to work those biceps a bit more.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something though.
odd this is all I've ever done, just did it like this yesterday...had a few moments to kill while my friend got kitted up by ride and managed to use the tool kit from the bikes. Who knew it was so useful.
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I just kept the bike on the kickstand when I adjusted the chain. Both wheels on the ground, and I just needed to work those biceps a bit more.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something though.
Yup, me too. That is how I have always done it. Am I doing something wrong???
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For whatever reason, the OEM practise is to use the centerstand, which seems counter-intuitive since you assess the chain's slack on the sidestand. THe first time I did this, the chain ended up being so tight, I thought I'd never get it back to a more slack position. Adjusting out is easy, the bolts help push. Adjusting back in, not so easy!
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:headscratch: My OE (Suzuki) manual tells you to adjust on the kickstand... :shrug:
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run a cinch strap from swingarm through grabrails . sit on bike .set loaded hight with strap . put on center stand. adjust chain :motorsmile:. M
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SnoFrog:
I don't have the grab rails (03 Naked) but I like the idea. I think I might be able to come up with a rather suitable alternative.
Thanks for tip.
BLK
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:headscratch: My OE (Suzuki) manual tells you to adjust on the kickstand... :shrug:
THAT IS THE SAME WAY THAT I HAVE ALWAYS DONE IT.....
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I feel like an Idiot. Probably am an Idiot come to think of it . I just tightened the chain on the centre stand. I don't think it's overtight but i'll check when I get home. :duh:
Well it was tight, not by a lot but tight. I reread the manual and yes it says Kickstand :duh: I was so happy to have a centre stand I didn't think about compresing the suspention when tightening the chain. Well at least i found upoot before I rode too far.
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Personally I do adjust on the centrestand. Personally the biggest issue is chain alignment too!!!!!!! Do NOT BELIEVE IN ANY WAY that the marks on the swingarm are even. Depending whre I do the adjust I use either a Motion Pro aligning tool OR a 36 inch long carpentry level pressed against the rear tire side.......and sight up the level once chain is tight. This is a few step process as chain slack will change as you tighten the rear axle nut. Keep checking slack as you tighten things into place.
LAst chain I installed is a DID....and it has barely stretched....UNLIKE the chain the bike came with new......
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Well, that's a scary thought. That the marks are not accurate on the swing arm. Considering the manual says use 'em. Hmmm. . . . I've gotta check my chain, and I was planning to use the marks. (at least as a keep me close reference anyway.).
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Well, that's a scary thought. That the marks are not accurate on the swing arm. Considering the manual says use 'em. Hmmm. . . . I've gotta check my chain, and I was planning to use the marks. (at least as a keep me close reference anyway.).
Mine are well within the prescribed limits of accuracy & tolerence.But I still use a measuring devise to check them.
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The goal is to be able to set your chain so it never gets too tight when the suspension compresses.
That is because as the suspension compresses and the swingarm brings the front sprocket, the swingarm pivot, and rear sprocket into line, the chain gets tighter. When all three are in direct alignment, the chain is at its tightest point.
That is why I take the few minutes it takes to put the bike on the center stand and do the following:
1. remove the bolt that goes through the bottom of the dogbones so the swingarm moves freely.
2. block the swingarm up so the chain is at its tightest point (sprockets and swingarm pivot in line).
3. adjust chain so there is no slack but it is not too tight
4. align wheel, double-check chain tension, and tighten everything
5. remove block holding swingarm up and replace bolt and nut at bottom of dog bones
It took me longer to type this than to do a chain adjustment as described above. It sounds like more work than it is.
The big payoff is in knowing your chain is adjusted adsolutely correctly.
Then you will see that the results will be pretty close to what you get by using the technique described in the factory manual - that is, if you do it exactly right.
Better safe than sorry. Take the time and adjust it correctly. If you keep it clean and oiled it will last a long time between needing adjustments.
Hope this helps.
Dave
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One more thing:
Rotate the rear wheel to see when the chain gets tighter. Find its tightest spot.
That is where you want it to be when you set it as described in my earlier post.
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One last thing:
Alignment is really important but, as per the earlier posts, the marks should not be trusted until their accuracy is verified (or new correct index marks are made).
Get two contractor's levels 72" long.
Use them as straight edges to align front and rear wheels.
Observe the alignment marks.
If they are the same on both sides, great! Use them with some confidence (although the levels are a lot more accurate than the best of marks).
If the marks are not the same on both sides when the wheels are correctly aligned, make new marks on the swingarm on one side to match the other side.
Good luck,
Dave
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One more time just for the heck of it.......the OEM manual says to adjust the chain while the bike is on the SIDE stand, why complicate a simple task?
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The factory recommended method was intended to make the job as easy as possible for the average rider who wants a simple procedure that will produce acceptable results.
However, it is quite possible to get the chain too tight using that method, especially if ride height has been increased by installing a Hayabusa shock or "jack-up" plates to raise the rear, thereby increasing the amount of slack required to avoid an over-tight chain when the suspension is compressed.
I simply wanted to get my chain set with a minimum of slack while being certain that it will not be too tight when the suspension is compressed and the swingarm is horizontal, and the sprockets are lined up with the swingarm pivot, causing the greatest distance between the sprockets and the chain is at its tightest point.
I have found that using the factory recommended method can result in some variance in actual chain tension due to inexact measurement (or estimation) of slack and variability in the degree of rear suspension sag at the time of adjustment.
The good news is that the factory recommended method is easy to do and is good enough for most riders most of the time and that is better than neglecting maintenance because it is too much hassle.
Hope that explains why I use the more complicated and more accurate method most of the time in the garage at home and why I would use the factory recommended method if necessary following a roadside repair etc.
Good luck,
Dave
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The best way to adjust the chain is with the bike on the side stand.
Find the tight spot of the chain and turn the rear wheel so that the tight spot is in the centre of the lower chain run. Slack off the axle nut just enough to allow the adjusters to move, put the bike on the side stand and then lean across the seat putting as much body weight as possible onto it.
With the suspension thus compressed, there should be about 1.5" of total up and down movement in the centre of the lower chain run (at the tight spot).
It's best to check the tension again after adjustment as tightening the axle nut sometimes tightens the chain (a good reason not to loosen it too far in the first place!)
Works for me! :motorsmile: