Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: jbrough7 on April 18, 2006, 06:27:40 AM
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Got my Bandit 650 a week or so ago and have done about 800 clicks. A magazine test said it should get about 355 clicks between fillups without stretching it too far. I would love that! That's double what my old savage got with a little teardrop tank that held a couple of thimble fulls!
Only problem is I'm getting about half that! Seems I'm on to reserve at about 180 km. so I take it in and fill it up. For you Americans, that's almost 5 gallons for about 120 miles!!
Friend tells me bikes are set really rich from the factory...also it HAS been pretty cold up here so I have been using the choke every morning, but then switching it off as quickly as I can.
Will the gas mileage pick up as she breaks in more?
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Although I don't recall reading of anyone's experience with a 650, bikes are usually too LEAN from the factory to make emissions requirements.
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Got my Bandit 650 a week or so ago and have done about 800 clicks. A magazine test said it should get about 355 clicks between fillups without stretching it too far. I would love that! That's double what my old savage got with a little teardrop tank that held a couple of thimble fulls!
Only problem is I'm getting about half that! Seems I'm on to reserve at about 180 km. so I take it in and fill it up. For you Americans, that's almost 5 gallons for about 120 miles!!
Friend tells me bikes are set really rich from the factory...also it HAS been pretty cold up here so I have been using the choke every morning, but then switching it off as quickly as I can.
Will the gas mileage pick up as she breaks in more?
In my experience, yes the milage will pick up as everything loosens up. However, I never, ever, ever beleive what a magazine (or the companies flyers) tell me about fuel economy, how the f^&k do they know how I ride, when I ride or where I ride. I do use them as a guide when comparing bikes, providing the same guy/s have done the testing under similar conditions.
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When my Bandit 1200 was new mileage was about 33-36 Miles/Gallon.
The culprit was the Throttle Position Sensor -- it was misadjusted.
The procedure for adjusting it is fairly simple and requires an ohmmeter and a phillips screwdriver.
First disconnect the TPS connector and measure the resistance from outside to outside connections and record it. It should be between 3500 to 6500 ohms (with 5000 ohms the desired value).
Next open the throttle fully and measure from the center pin to one outside pin ( I forget which) and you should measure 76% of the original value. If necessary, loosen the two phillips screws holding the TPS and rotate to achieve this value.
For example if overall resistance is 5000 ohms, the full throttle value should be 3800 ohms. A digital ohmmeter makes it easier to read the values, just make sure it's accurate and reading zero ohms with the leads touching together.
My mileage sent from 33-36 to 42-43 MPG after this adjustment AND running was smoother too.
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In addition those reports on milage are usually for Highway and "best conditions" driving. If you're driving in the city it will eat fuel like crazy. When I get my bike on the highway my milage goes up alot. 180km till reserve in the city on a brand new not broken in bike is pretty normal. You're bike will be properly broken in at a minimum of at least 2000kms on the clock. So don't worry you're still in the ballpark.
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That does sound low though. If it doesn't pick up after break-in, I'd take it in and ask what's up. The stock 600's typically get 45-50 miles per US gallon and the 1200's ~5 mpg less. I average 38-39 with my B12 and it's been rejetted with a Holeshot stage II and has a Holeshot can. I got ~42 back when it was stock.
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I agree though, it is a little low, maybe check the TPS sensor. It seems to always be out of wack from the factory. Mine was, and almost everyone who's checked it says its always a little out of wack. I will say that my gas milage has improved alot since I've hit a couple of thousand K. THat's including making the mixture richer to compensate for my muzzy slip-on.
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RED 01 whilst you are here i want to ask you something.I guess your bike is the same as mine a 1200 K1. I saw one or two of your earlier posts reguarding jetting the carbs.The thing i want to know is are you using a dynojet stage 1 with k/n in the airbox? iam using this setup with the largest jet which is size 100 and the needle clip is seccond from bottom and the bike seems to run ok but when i check the plugs using the plug chop method they are always white it seems that the jet is still to small.Or iam wandering if i havent taken the bike on a long enough run before doing the plug chop.what do you think and what jet and needle possitions are you using.
P.s i have no air leaks and everything is fit correctly etc etc.
Thanks Daz
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ooops you have a stage 2 kit sorry i have just noticed heh heh
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Daz, IMHO, you have two problems.
1) Dynojet jet kit - while they make a lot of great jet kits, their Bandit kits have always been between difficult and impossible to dial in.
2) The K&N replacement filter - they're an upgrade for almost everything - except 2nd Generation Bandits. Dale Walker of Holeshot recommends sticking with the stock filter if you're keeping the airbox. A few folks have managed to get them to work out with Ivan's jet kit.
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I have got mine runing well with K/N filter its better than the standard setup.But as i have said the plugs are not colouring so i phoned a main d/j dealer and they said that with modern fuels doing a plug chop is not reliable anymore because of the cleaner fuels :sad:
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Looking at the holeshot site and Dale walkers comments- they do recomend the standard filter for the stage one kit but they do also supply a k/n filter for the stage two kit all be it that the stage two kit elimainates the air box cover.of course there is also the stage three that eliminates the box as we all know.
personally i dont believe that there is a problem with a stage one and a k/n.Dale has a good sales ploy as the stage 2 costs you lots of extra dosh.
Factory pro also have a good marketing ploy by telling you that their needles and jet and emulsion tubes are the best.
I have also phoned dynojet and they say that a k/n is fine with a stage one kit.
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Having watched Dale develop his kits for the 2001+ B12's from his posts over at Maximum-Suzuki, I can tell you it is not a marketing ploy just to sell you the Stage II Airbox kit.
FWIW - he does recommend the K&N replacement filter for the Stage I kit on the 1G B12. He just could not get reliable results with the K&N and just fresh jets - and he tried all sorts of hole patterns. It took new needles to get it to run to his satisfaction. And with Dale's kits, new needles is a Stage II. Given his record with Bandits and bikes in general, if he has troubles, I doubt I can do better.
Add to that, his Stage II Airbox kit didn't come out until a couple of years later. It was developed because some folks wanted more power than the Stage I, but didn't want to go to pods. (His kit with the K&N pods is still called a Stage II, but is what DJ & FP call a III or 3.0)
Anyway, glad you got your DJ kit running well... I think you're maybe the 3rd person I've seen post here that's happy with it. :bigok:
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:banana: Yo mate its good to share knowledge on here.The tinternet (lol) is a great revoulution.
knowledge is power (or i hope it is )
Thanks Daz :bigok:
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I bought an 03 B12S this Saturday with 1600 miles on it and it soots plugs something awful. Sounds like you all may have just found the problem for me. Wow to the gas milage! 33 to 36 mpg is pretty dismal and even 42-43 though bearable, isnt going to win any awards. LOL I think I'm going to have to see what I can do with synching, mixture adjustment and gearing. It shouldnt be very difficult to get the gas milage to over 50 mpg.
Blue
When my Bandit 1200 was new mileage was about 33-36 Miles/Gallon.
The culprit was the Throttle Position Sensor -- it was misadjusted.
My mileage went from 33-36 to 42-43 MPG after this adjustment AND running was smoother too.
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I think 50 mpg(US) out of a B12 will be difficult - even if you're really, really easy with the throttle. . .
. . . and that's not usually why people select the 1200 version of the Bandit. :wink:
If you want 50 or better, stick with a smaller engine. The 600 Bandit has been known to get 50. My old '71 Yamaha XS650 would get 55 mpg at 55 mph - when I could manage to stay that slow for a whole tank of gas. My first bike, a '66 Suzuki 80, got 110 mpg, but would barely break 45 mph wrapped out pisstight.
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I know what you're saying. I didnt get the 12S to wobble along at 15 mph with. :-) I just (few minutes ago) got back from DMV and the Ins co. getting the title transferred, tags, etc and my insurance transferred. I've only put about 9 miles on the bike so far, so I'm hardly in a position to know exactly what the gas milage is. :-) My 83 GS1100 suzuki averaged about 43-45 mpg and to improve that to 48-50 mpg, all I had to do was drop two teeth on the rear sprocket. That was barely noticable on the old GS relative to getting going from a stop. I already checked (just for the hell of it) how the 12S handled a 2nd gear start and it couldnt care less. :-) :-) I doubt dropping two teeth will hurt anythine except the acceleration between 1 mph and maybe 10. hehehe I got the Bandit (in order of preferences) because of ergonomics, brakes, handling and power.
It really is a winner. After riding the top heavy and heavy GS1100, the bandit feels like a 600 ehehehehe Its sooooooo light! Its great, I can pull up in front of my house, stop, open the mailbox, put the mail in the tank bag, close the mailbox and ride away,............without putting my feet down. LOL
Blue
I think 50 mpg(US) out of a B12 will be difficult - even if you're really, really easy with the throttle. . .
. . . and that's not usually why people select the 1200 version of the Bandit. :wink:
If you want 50 or better, stick with a smaller engine. The 600 Bandit has been known to get 50. My old '71 Yamaha XS650 would get 55 mpg at 55 mph - when I could manage to stay that slow for a whole tank of gas. My first bike, a '66 Suzuki 80, got 110 mpg, but would barely break 45 mph wrapped out pisstight.
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I think 50 mpg(US) out of a B12 will be difficult - even if you're really, really easy with the throttle. . .
. . . and that's not usually why people select the 1200 version of the Bandit. :wink:
I did my first milage check on the 12 today and a tankful at mostly 65-75 mph, I'm getting 41 mpg. Not bad. I bet with minor tuning and adjustment, I can get it up to a solid 45 mpg for that speed range. I'm going to change the dino oil in it to 15w50 Mobil 1 tomorrow. That ought to be good for 1 mpg. LOL I've only had the bike a few days and I certainly could be wrong, but I'm inclined to believe with a little creativity I can be chasing 50 mpg pretty hard without changing my riding habits. It'll be fun to find out anyhow. heh
Why people buy Bandits? I dont know exactly. I did notice once that my front wheel was blocking my forward view though. LOL
Blue.
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Blue:
I've got a 2005 1200S with 4000 miles on it. I bought it three weeks ago with 3000 miles and running with dino oil. Fuel economy on the road was abysmal, maybe 38 mpg. After an additional 1000 miles (some of which were, ah, hard miles) and a switch to 10w40 Castrol Syntec (a full synthetic) I'm getting 190 miles per tank before a refill - I have YET to hit the reserve. Mind you, this is at cruising speeds on secondary highways in the Piedmont region of North Carolina - moderate curves, minimal stops, undulating hills. I weigh 200 lbs. The chain is properly lubed and the tires are inflated to spec. I also added a throttle rocker which helps me keep a steady hand during long rides.
Of course, if I was worried about fuel economy, I'd buy a moped!
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Maximus you'd be better off useing something thats not labeled "energy conserving" , as I believe Castrol Syntec is. Heard its bad for the clutch. Just something I've read on BanditAlleyBBS. I did run it for a bit myself with no ill affects.
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It used to cost me $7 to fill up my old Suzi Savage single and I was moaning I now have to pay $20 to fill up the new bandit. But then I thought about it: the price jump in gas plus the tank is more than twice as big plus I get just about twice the miles out of the bandit! All told, the four cylinder bandit with a gazillion carbs is getting pretty much the same mileage as my old thumper was! Pretty damn good.
Jim
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I'm not worried about fuel economy, not really. I was just interested in what kind of milage I was getting. If it had been 35 mpg when I was just out cruising around, I would know the bike is out of tune and there is room for improvement. If it was over 50 mpg, I would be concerned about it being set up too lean and needng tuning. I have Mobil 1 15w50 in it and the bike has 2k miles on it. I've run a few more tanks through it now and milage seems to be settling down to around 47 mpg with steady cruise speeds. I figure thats just about where it should be with everything adjusted correctly. I weigh 165 and my helmet and the tops of my shoulders are about all the protrude above the windscreen, so I'm a low drag size. LOL I'm real happy with the gas milage. Actually, I'm really pleased about everything on the bandit except for one item and even the stock seat fits me well. The headlights though aaarrrgghhhhhhh!!!
I have to say, HANDS DOWN, the B12S has the worst headlights of any bike I have ridden. :-) Yeeech!
I already ordered replacements after reading red01's commentary about fixing his. The stock lighting is so bad (in my opinion) that I dont plan on riding the bike after dark again until I get the lighting upgraded.
Blue
Blue:
I've got a 2005 1200S with 4000 miles on it. I bought it three weeks ago with 3000 miles and running with dino oil. Fuel economy on the road was abysmal, maybe 38 mpg. After an additional 1000 miles (some of which were, ah, hard miles) and a switch to 10w40 Castrol Syntec (a full synthetic) I'm getting 190 miles per tank before a refill - I have YET to hit the reserve. Mind you, this is at cruising speeds on secondary highways in the Piedmont region of North Carolina - moderate curves, minimal stops, undulating hills. I weigh 200 lbs. The chain is properly lubed and the tires are inflated to spec. I also added a throttle rocker which helps me keep a steady hand during long rides.
Of course, if I was worried about fuel economy, I'd buy a moped!
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I don't have a lot of experience with night riding but just spent 1.5 hours in the dark and i really was in the dark. i have a 2006 g3 650 so maybe our setups are the same? I don't plan on doing to much at night but gotta look into those lights as well.
Jim
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If you have the same lighting I do on my 03 B12S, we're both in the dark. :-). Its not even enjoyable to ride at night having that poor a quality of lighting. Check out this thread http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=2982
Blue
I don't have a lot of experience with night riding but just spent 1.5 hours in the dark and i really was in the dark. i have a 2006 g3 650 so maybe our setups are the same? I don't plan on doing to much at night but gotta look into those lights as well.
Jim
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labeled "Energy Conserving" and the lower half of the circle on the lable is clear, at least on the East Coast. They may formulate the oil differently for West Coast sales.
Take care,
Max
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Did I see $115 per pair?? Man! That's a lot of beer and pizza!
Jim
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NO, the lights were $30 each plus $5 shipping for the pair.
Blue
Did I see $115 per pair?? Man! That's a lot of beer and pizza!
Jim
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I have an '05 Bandit 1200S. When it was stock, I was averaging 40 mpg. I've since rejetted it and installed a Yosh slip on. Now I average 32 mpg. I'm guessing that not having a 6th gear doesn't help with mileage.
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The B12's 5th is actually taller than the B6's 6th - and the sprocket gearing is taller on the 12. As far as getting 32 after your rejet, that sucks! I have to try HARD to get worse than 38 with mine. I think 36 is the absolute worst I've ever gotten with my Holeshot Stage II & slip-on.
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I had a chance to run a few more tanks of gas through the newly acquired 03 B12S and have my gas milage more or less sorted. 55-60 mph =50 mpg, 60-65 mph= 47 mpg, 65-70 mph= 45 mpg, 70-75 mph= 43 mpg and 80 mph 41 mpg. 100 mph should be about 33 mpg. LOL
Blue
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The B12's 5th is actually taller than the B6's 6th - and the sprocket gearing is taller on the 12. As far as getting 32 after your rejet, that sucks! I have to try HARD to get worse than 38 with mine. I think 36 is the absolute worst I've ever gotten with my Holeshot Stage II & slip-on.
I've often thought on longer trips, sixth on my 650 bandit should be taller - the way it's set up right now, i could almost use a seventh gear! And I come from a 4 spd!
But most times I'm happier revving the snot out of her in fourth and fifth, anyway...it's too sweet a sound to bypass.
jim
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Most street bikes and cars will cruise at freeway speeds in the 40-60% of redline range (usually the meat of the torque band), so in that regard, the Bandits seem to be geared correctly.
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So what you're saying, in a nice way, is that I am WRONG!!!
Man! I hate being wrong - 25 years and I ain't never been right yet! :wink:
Jim
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If it's any consolation, I've tried to shift my B12 into 6th on more than one occasion - almost every time I've taken it out for a spin.
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I know exactly what you mean. :-)
Blue
If it's any consolation, I've tried to shift my B12 into 6th on more than one occasion - almost every time I've taken it out for a spin.