Author Topic: leaky oil seals? (Read 5673 times)

fritobandito · « **on:** December 08, 2005, 03:29:06 PM »

We've gone around the block about the oil burning problems due to undersized pistons on some of the 2nd gen. bandits. But, what about oil burning that happens after sitting for an extended period of time and clears up after running several minutes. My guess is leaky oil seals. Anybody have concrete info about this for me? My '01 does this. Is there an additive you can put in to re-awaken the seals so they seal good? Thanks.

Frito

solman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2005, 09:18:01 PM »

Sounds like valve seals going/gone bad. One way to tell is to take your exhaust headers off and look at the valve stems. If it looks wet, then that is your problem. Only fix that I know of would be to replace them.

Red01 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2005, 10:01:13 PM »

Quote from: "solman"

Only fix that I know of would be to replace them.

+1

fritobandito · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2005, 10:29:10 PM »

Yep, I meant to say valve seals instead of oil seals. Looks like I may have a winter project after all. Thanks guys.

pmackie · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2005, 10:59:13 PM »

If your not ready to do the valve seals yet, there are a couple of little tricks that may help somewhat...

Lube Oils vary greatly in the amount of aromatic hydrocarbons that they contain. Solvent extracted base oils tend to have a higher percentage of aromatics (unsaturated molecules). Hydrotreated base oils and PAO synthetics have very low levels of aromatics. Directionally, low aromatics cause seals to shrink very slightly, whereas higher aromatic oils cause seals to swell slightly. This is one of the reasons that you should not convert to synthetic oils in a high mileage engine. They tend to leak oil more. Anyway...converting to a lube oil made with the solvent extraction process may assist.

2nd lube oil option is to use an oil with more Viscosity Index Improver (VII). These are long chain molecules that are added to the oil to give it its Multigrade effect. The downside of these molecules is that they tend to shear in severe service, like motorcycle transmissions and wet clutches. Non synthetic oils such as 10W40, 15W40 & 20W50 have more VII than synthetics or 10W30's.

So...you can look for a diesel engine oil (more shear stable VII) that uses a solvent extraction process. Exxon products such as XD-3 and Shell Rotella in NON Synthetic versions likely have a large portion of of Solvent Extracted base stocks. Chevron is mostly hydrotreated. I am not familiar with most of the other US brands.

If you are using a synthetic or syn blend, you may be able to cause the seals to swell slightly by converting back to a 15W40 conventional, or evern a 10W40 or 20W50 gas engine oil. You should consider changing the oil a little sooner on the gasoline oil grades.

Red01 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2005, 12:40:34 AM »

Cool info!

B12Teuton · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2005, 08:42:24 AM »

Ditto to what Paul said... I love it when people actually know what they are talking about.

fritobandito · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2005, 09:44:00 AM »

Wow. Just when I mistakenly think I know enough about oil and lubrication, somone comes along and shows me that I know absolutely nothing. I just bought the bike a couple months ago and haven't changed the oil yet, and I don't know whether it has synthetic or not. I doubt it. But, I'll try putting in something like you recommended and see what happens. Of course, since we just got 4" of snow dumped on us, it may be a while. Anyway, thanks for the overabundance of info. I think I've already forgotten half of it.

Daytona · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2005, 01:08:26 PM »

Quote from: "pmackie"

2002-GSF600S, Silver, Still stock
Ex Bike Mechanic (late 70's), somewhat rusty
26 years in the Fuel/lubes industry

OK Mr. 26 years in the oil Biz!!! What goo do you run in your 600??.... What did you vote for on the poll??... I run a Shell Premium 15W40 (name) product, ever heard of it? What ya think! No consulting bill in the mail i hope.... Lots of very pro folk on this site!!

pmackie · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2005, 02:43:52 PM »

Hey Datona

It's funny, for a guy in the oil business, I spend less time thinking about my own equipment...Sorry, I did not vote in the poll. After doing some research, in part prompted by questions and comments on this site, I have come up with the following conclusions as to oil in the air/oil cooled bandit:
1. High reving engines need less viscosity. I don't see a need for 20W50 unless your oil temp gets REALLY hot.
2. The gearbox needs higher viscosity and would like enhanced antiwear and/or EP additives, but these additives cause problems with the wet clutch. VII in multigrades will help by trying to keep the viscosity up.
3. Full synthetics eg: PAO's (NOT group 2 & 3 hydrotreated oils) offer lower internal friction due to their uniform molecular size. This keeps oil temperaturs slightly lower and should extend bearing life. A side benefit is that POA synthetics need less VII improver to keep viscosity up.
4. Add this all up and I would recommend in the following order:
a) Full synthetic Diesel engine oil, such as Mobil Delvac 1 5W40, Esso XD-3 0W40. Lots of others. Diesel engine oils have more shear stable VII.
b) Conventional & Part Syn Diesel engine oils, usually 15W40.
c) Full Synthetic auto engine oils, (PAO's not Esters or PolyGlycols), preferably 10W40 and not Energy Conserving.
d) Conventional auto engine oils - 10W40. Be aware that these oils and some full sythetic auto oils will shear out of grade more quickly, with a 10W40 becoming a 10W30 in service. You should likely change these oils more often.

I hope this helps. Remember, the most important thing is to change the oil regularly. I change mine at 5000 kms (3000 miles), and I would suggest you find a brand you like and stick with it.

Also, remember that this thread started with a questions about how to reduce seal leakage. You can change oil manufacturers if you are trying to get a different result.

ttewejnodnarb · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2005, 05:32:30 PM »

Motorex Power Synt 4T Oil

Fully synthetic, 4-stroke oil

Optimum wear protection

Maximum friction-coefficient

No moly additives

Motorex Top Speed 4T Oil

Fully synthetic, 4-stroke oil

High friction coefficient

No moly additives

Decreased oil consumption; protection against wear

I'm using one of these or another...Makes me wonder if paying $33 for 4QTS is worth it.

pmackie · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2005, 07:34:35 PM »

Hi Brandon
Canadian spec Essolube XD-3 0W40 is a full synthetic diesel engine oil meeting CI-4 and SH (not the latest gas SI), retails in most areas for $4.60/$4.75 per litre Can$, or about $15-16 US$ per US gal. About 1/2 of what your paying.
Mobil Delvac 1 is in the range of $7.50/8.00/litre or $25US/USgal. Either sounds like a better deal to me.

ttewejnodnarb · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2005, 05:02:11 PM »

Sounds good to me!

Thanks for the advise.

I owe you a beer...Maybe at BOSS '06?