Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: longislandbandit99 on July 28, 2007, 01:43:25 PM
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Gas, lots of gas all inside my airbox. I started the bike and ran it for about fifteen minutes when I did the rebuild. Then I took it for a fifteen minute ride. No problem. I haven't run it since. Yesterday I took it for a nice ride down to my friends house, at least a half hour ride. It sat for a few hours, no dripping I rode it home. It sat in the garage for awhile as I cleaned it and prepped it for the sale I completed with it. NO dripping.
Well today I go in the garage and there is gas dripping. So I start to take stuff apart and as I get to the air box and loosen the screws, gas pours out of the air box. There is still a lot of gas coming out of the air box. So here is the question. WHY? The new needles can't be the problem and I checked the floats when I put each bowl back on. They all were the correct height as near as I could tell. They were not sticking so that can't be the issue. Could leaving the gas tank petcock on prime for a day or so have done this? I erroneously did that when I had that problem with the clutch bolt coming loose. It sat on prime for a while. I'm thinking that isn't the problem. This is more like a loaded up with gas while running problem. Why it occured now is beyond me. All I know is it f**ked up my sale of the bike and now will cost me more time and possibly money to get it fixed. I can't trust the Suzuki dealer near me and my only other option is the guy my friend uses who I will be calling next.
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Leaving the petcock on prime almost guarantees leaking gas. There's a reason prime only should be used to initially fill empty float bowls, then switched to the on position.
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Sure but to put almost a gallon or more of gas into the airbox? It wasn't on prime for that long. Not to mention the fact that I rode it a few times and had no performance or stalling issues. I'm going to pull the carbs and see if maybe the float needles are damaged. Some info I was able to obtain today told me the stock needles have rubber tips that can become damaged from our ole friend Ethanol in the gas.
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I have seen sometimes where the needle hook was not centered on the float tang just right and cause the needle valve to stick. But what you are discribing does sound like something sticking with the floats or you might have a bad or out of adjustment float.
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Much to my chagrin, I will be pulling these carbs, taking them apart and cleaning them. I'm trying to get a hold of new float needles that don't have rubber tips. I need to speak with Dale too and see what he recommends. Then its off to re-checking float heights and putting it back together. I see much fun in my future
:sad: :poopfan:
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All needle valves today have rubber tips for better sealing. If you want I can order them in for you. If they are not to bad, you might be able to clean them up with some scotch-brite. Just be careful cleaning the needle valves with the scotch-brite.
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I'm not so sure the float needles are bad. The two I looked at look identical as far as I can tell. I'm going to look at the other two then start by removing the fuel petcock and cleaning it and the gas tank. I may have dirt inside that is making its way into the carb and blocking the needle from closing. Then I'm going to remove the bank from the bike, take the fuel line off and spray carb cleaner inside the intake to see if it comes out of the individual carbs where it should. I'm doing all this over a clear plastic container to see if grit comes out. I never called Dale since I'm not so sure the new jets are the problem.
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Please keep us posted as to your findings because I have been planning on putting Ivan's Stage 2 Jet kit on and this worries me a little with the automotive luck I have been having the past few weeks. The short and long of it...JB Weld gets my vote as a$$-saver of the century (and $2,000 in repairs saver too!). :shock:
Matt
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So far I can't seem to find why they overflowed. I took the carb bank out off the bike and took all the float bowl covers off. I took the floats and needle valves out and looked at each valve. They all look I-DENTICAL (slap your hands together like that prosecutor from My Cousin Vinny.)
With the needles out I sprayed carb cleaner in each needle seat and also did it reversed where the fuel line plugs into the rail between the carbs. The liquid dripped/poured out easily and cleanly. I sprayed it in each needle seat and it came out where it was supposed to.
Inside each float bowl cover was clean. No more gritty stuff that I had found previously. I checked the float heights as per "Bills Method" as best as I could. The manual says to turn the carbs upside down and measure it that way. I checked those measurements and it was 1/4". Bill's method showed me 1/2" plus or minus a few sixteenths. Best guess I have is the float heights are right.
With the carbs off I readjusted the pilot screw turns to 3 3/4 out as per Dale's instructions. Next I have to see if the tank is clean. I held it over a bucket and turned the petcock to prime to watch the gas come out. It looked clean in there. I shook it up a lot a few times, let it settle and repeated. The gas coming out looks clean as it should. I was going to remove the valve and stuff from it but supposedly you have to replace the gasket and o-rings in there. I don't know if I'm going to mess with that. If the filter in there was clogged I don't think the gas would pour out like it did. I hooked my tank up to the carbs when they were backed off the manifolds and opened the valve to prime. This was a suggestion a friend of mine had, he said if the floats were jammed or not closing enough I should see gas leaking out. No gas leaked out. That was before I took them apart. So I'm guessing no dirt got in as well.
I'd like to start it up but I think I should change the oil and filter first no? Probably a good idea to do that. I'll call the dealer and see if he's open and if he has the filter in stock.
***Update Saturday night***
Well I changed the oil and filter. Hooked up the tank and went for a nice, long, half hour ride. I went fast, I went slow, I went through traffic and I sat at traffic lights. I was riding with the drain plug for the air box off just in case but every time I sat at idle somewhere I looked down and didn't see anything dripping. I will say this much, this biatch has some pull to it now! I can't believe the torque and horsepower increase from these jets. It saddens me that I've decided to sell it. I tried everything I could think of to replicate the fuel overflow problem and did not see any evidence of a reoccurance. Tomorrow I will go for an even longer ride with the drain plug in. I'll stop here and there and pull the plug to see if gas is accumulating inside the airbox. I'm thinking whatever the problem was, its gone now. Here are a few questions I'll pose since Dale Walker's place is on vacation this week and he's not taking any e-mails.
I noticed in the manual when I read about fuel overflow problems in troubleshooting that the needle valve and the spring in the top cap could be a cause. It listed faulty needle jet and broken spring as a cause. Why is that? It also listed bad float height and bad float needle valve as a cause. Those I understand. What I don't get is how a faulty variable venturi could cause a fuel overflow and why did it not have that problem before the re-jetting when two of the four springs were kinked up and preventing the needle jet from operating correctly. Could gas have been building up that whole time and it finally showed itself?
I'm 95% certain I cut those springs correctly as per Dale's instructions. I even measured the cut pieces and matched them all up to ensure only 25mm (1in.) was removed.
My other question is what is the purpose of the small o-ring under the top cap that is kind of off to the side? Two of the four were missing due to the cap being put on backwards. I did not bother to replace them since as far as I can tell they don't really do anything. I'm sure they do something but the stupid manual doesn't tell me what. They just sit in a small pocket with nothing underneath them but the metal body of the carb. So why are they there? The part of the cap that covers them doesn't have an opening I can see either. What's the deal?
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Glad you got the bike working. The o-rings in the top cap seal a vaccuum port. I would get them replaced as soon as you can, they are needed.
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Wonderful so I get to fight with those damn carbs again I can't wait.
:duh:
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You should be able to get the caps off the carbs to replace those little O-rings without removing the carb bank from the bike.
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Yeah that's true. If I remember which ones had o-rings and which one's didn't. I'll just fuss with them tomorrow or the next.
I still have to install the 5° advancer.
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All 4 of them have those little buggers.
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Yeah I know but I'm only missing two of the four.
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Doobie Doobie Doo! My carbs are flooding again :duh:
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not sayin this happened here but it might of, the jets where the needle seats, sometimes they're of different size (not the threads however the size of the jet itself) therefore if the needle don't seat in this jet right, it will allow the carb to flood, hope this helps, i reversed the jets on my old virago, and had the same flood you are talkin of
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I know what did it. The ethanol phase separated from the gasoline and settled on the bottom of the float bowl. When I started the bike up the globs of ethanol gunked up the float and needle preventing it from closing all the way. The end result is excess fuel in the air box and eventually from sitting on the kickstand it hydrolocked the #1 cylinder. I already cleaned the carbs again, and this time I ordered new float needles, gaskets for the float bowl chamber, and a bunch of other things that tallied my bill to $311 and change.
Here is my question now to the powers that be. The needle jet where the main jet screws in has a rubber o-ring around it so it seats up against the body of the carburetor and creates a seal. The four of them have crud built up on the o-ring. I gently tried to clean it off with carburetor cleaner on a rag and I also tried to rub it off with my fingers. No I did not remove any of the rubber but my thoughts are that the crud is actually corroded rubber. As we all know ethanol destroys rubber o-rings and gaskets and things. Now I screwed the needle jet back on and made it snug. Should I just replace the damn thing (correct mechanical sense says yes) or can I get away with out replacing it. I am sure I'd have to buy the whole needle jet just to get new o-rings. Any idea on what they may cost?
I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible so I can sell it but I also want it fixed once the right way. I'm sure I will end up buying the new parts but I need to ask some "experts" too.
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Edit: I answered my question at Ron Ayers' site with the parts microfiche. I can in fact order just o-rings. Three more days wait but it is the right thing to do.