Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: Big Bo on March 17, 2005, 06:21:52 AM
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Mainly the two outside pipes.
Is this a bad thing?
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No.
Chill :beers:
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...but some positive reinforcement, maybe some chocolates or flowers are sure to brighten them up!
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Give it time... you'll have "gunmetal headers"
DJ
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Is it a stock header? Do you have modified jetting? Blue pipes generally mean that you are running a bit lean. Most stock headers with stock jetting turn only a gold color.
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I have a Scorpion can on the bike. The pipes were gold. About two weeks ago the blue color started showing.
This is a stock 2nd gen, 1200 with the addition of the Scorpion. The Scorpion has been on the bike for 1500 miles. It pops out the back alot. Do I need a jet kit?
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A performance slipon and stock jetting is lean, BB. But I ran my 01B12 with a holeshot SO and stock jetting for a year with no ill effects. The popping indicates lean too.
Some header polish, holeshots majic mix metal polish, everytime you wash will help until you save for a jet kit, thats what I did....
Mike
:)
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I have a jet kit in my near future. I don`t know whick one to get. Holeshot II, or Ivans. I don`t want to start a brand war. The prices are marketly different. Is one easier than the other to install? Tune? Works great? Help, because I don`t know what kit to buy, or if it makes any difference at all.
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Performance is comparable. Dale offers a choice of keeping the airbox, or ditching it in favor of cleanable K&N pod filters. Reinstalling the airbox is a bit of a PIA - especially compared to tossing in the pods. If you wanna keep the airbox, go with whichever is cheapest.
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The thing that sounds odd to me is that the outside headers are blueing more than the inner ones. You would expect temps to run higher on the inside cylinders. Blueing is real common (read normal) on single wall headers like older european bikes. I haven't noticed that color on many late model bikes with double wall headers, expecially stainless ones.
In addition to the jet kit, the deceleration popping will be greatly reduced by eliminating the pair system and making sure that no fresh air leaks exist into the header.
I agree Vith that And believe that a New jet kit will Solve the discoloration and improve the bike overall.
:banana: :banana: :monkeymoon: :banana: :banana:
Steve
btw: I also use the K&N filter, no problemo.
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Bought a Holeshot can, 21", and installed it. I ran it without doing anything else for months, experiencing just what you have, and loved the change w/ the sound and slight power increase, but not much blue-ing. Still wanted more 'kick'
I installed the Stage I from DW after much consideration. I'd read too many good things about it and decided to "dive-in", "take the plunge". No mechanical experience w/ bikes, but confident in my limited experiences, "I could do it if so many others had in the past". Besides, Mr. Walker was readily available for consult.
Huge difference in performance over just the can, and I did it all without having to make any adjustments - just replaced parts, modified airbox, cut needlle springs - boom! Yes, carb removal was the adventure, but I got through it one afternoon. I recommend, even without having axperienced other kits. Good luck!
:beers:
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just received my scorpion can and will install it on my 2002 B12 next weekend
seems as if you like it tell me more.
my plan was to run as is for this season and install ivan's jet kit next winter.
i like dales' but don't like the ignition advancer idea.
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i like dales' but don't like the ignition advancer idea.
Why?
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I don`t know what happened. Or why the pipes turned blue. This just happened over the past two weeks. My bike is very cold blooded. Takes a few cranks to start when cold. A co-worker has an 02 1200S also. He runs a Two Brothers. His pipe has been on for over a year. He says his bike runs great. Does not pop at all, mine does. I will not ride my bike until I get the jet kit in. Its no problem its raining here anyway. And is not supposed to let up until late next week.
I like the sound of the Scorpion. I think you will too.
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Hey BB, hard cold starts and long warmup time is a symptom of lean also.
When I was using a HS SO (no jet kit), I had to use full choke to get 3k on the tach when starting cold. Then it took 5 minutes of riding before it warmed up enough to get into the throttle without sputtering.
So thats normal for your bike now. Once you get a jet kit tuned in, it will warm up quick, and you won't have to sit very long waiting for it to warm up.
Hell, when mine was warming up without the kit, I used to go full choke after I got it stablized at 2500-3000 rpm. Then put on my jacket, helmet, gloves, organize my tank bag and what not. Then finally the rpms would start to drop a little and I could back off the choke. Bet my apartment neighbors loved that huh ?
Mike
:)
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i like dales' but don't like the ignition advancer idea.
Why?
simple ingnition reverser[/i] :banana:
[/list]
Naw seriously Dave, the advancer is a real simple bolt on, probably the easiest part of the jet kit, and all it does is advance the timing a little. Just a Dale Walker tuning technique, and he's been at it for a long time with a great rep across the world.
Ivan's got a great kit too though, so I'd compliment both designers and builders.
Mike
:)
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After starting my bike would slowly climb to 4000rpm with full choke. I would back the choke out and keep the rpm at 3000. On occasion I let the bike idle for 5 min. or more.
My bike never got to the point that the rpm`s would come down with the choke on.
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If you let it warm up all the way, all engines drop rpm's with choke on. It's what tells a manual choke you can shut it off b4 the plugs foul. Automatic chokes like cars have, release on their own. I never could get 4000 out of mine, except on stock pipe and jetting. With the jet kit I rarely even need choke, except if it's cold outside.
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IMHO running the engine at 2, 3, 4 thousand RPM, with no load on the engine, the engine cold, and the choke on, is NOT good for the engine. Lots of folks would consider that to be destructive to the engine. The only time I spin my engine like that with no load is to check carb sync and that is with a warm engine and for no longer than necessary. Dyno runs spin the engine under load.
The choke is enrichening the f/a mix, you can end up with unburned fuel causing excessive ring friction and premature wear by stripping the cylinder walls bare. At the very least you are causing some considerable carbon build up in the combustion chamber. The bandit engines are tough but spinning the thing with no load @ 3 or 4 k? Not mine! (btw: automatic carb chokes use a time delay (thermal coil) to open the choke as the engine temp rises, FI cars have enricheners, manual chokes depend on the wisdom of the operator - not that long ago a common mod to carbs was to remove the auto choke and add a manual choke just so you could get off the choke sooner than the auto would)
Try to use the least amount of choke needed to sustain warm up at somewhere around 1500rpm (as close to idle speed as it will maintain) and get off the choke as soon as possible, if you need to ride away sooner, get off the choke ASAP. Your engine will last a bit longer and work better in the meanwhile.
Another reason why I don't lend out my motorvehicles.
You guys do what you want, I just couldn't stand the idea of someone who doesn't know any better reading this thread and thinking this is the trick way to warm up their new pride and joy.
Steve
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not to start a debate Steve, cause I rarely need choke since the jet kit kit was installed 3 yrs ago. But on a stock jetting setup (no shims even) with an SO, the lean condition causes such cold bloodedness. 1500 rpms or near idle at warm up would stall everytime. 2500 min to prevent stalling on mine in that situation, there's no way I could get 4k out of it after the SO was installed any way, but 2500-3k as a normal warmup on that setup.
Since the jetkit was installed, I can start on warm days with no choke, modulate the throttle a little to get the gas flowing and idle is fine, then I'm down the road in no time anyway anyway.
And just to clarify, letting your engine idle for long periods ain't exactly the greatest idea either on the old gixxer power plant, unless you enjoy fouled plugs.
to each his own I guess, but I agree 4k is too high. On a totally stock bike,I remember starting it when it was new on full choke and the rpms would jump too fast and I'd see 4k and have to back it down to around 2500. But near idle would never work for my bike before the jet kit in either instance. Just my opinion, but the bandit motor is tougher than you give it credit for, and near idle for warmup (1500rpm) on a lean condition bike is an invitation for stalls.
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Pipe color is a result of metal temperature . Its called temper color
blue is 150--200 degees hotter than yellow-pipe temperature, engine part temp is probably much more. The color / temperature varies with
the kind of metal but not much.
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Glad you're feeling better Mike! :beers:
Steve
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(http://www.hudmill.com/mike/smiles/thanks.gif) Steve!
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My pre-jet kit choke routine was pretty much like Steve's...just enough choke to keep it running. When the RPMs would jump up to 3k, I'd back the choke off to drop it down to 1.5k or so. I'd start the bike before I got my gloves and helmet on, just to give it a minute to warm up. Unfortunately, I would occasionally FORGET that I was running 50% choke for miles before I looked down and noticed.
With the H/S Stage 1, I can pretty much back the choke off almost all the way and go right after the bike starts.
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So what all do you get with a H/S stage 1 for the B6?
K&N air filter?
advancer?
jets 2 100's and 2 102's?
instructions?
And what jets did you use, just the 100's or did you put the 102's in also?
:duh: I'm not stealing your post just want to hear more....thanks
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:stickpoke: Dave, Dave, Dave... did you think to look at the Holeshot 1G B6 Jet Kit Page? (http://www.holeshot.com/bandit/bndt_b12_stage1mod.shtml) :duh:
* K&N high flow air filter
* Original Keihin main jets
* Needle shims
* Holeshot® +5° timing advancer
* Timing advancer cover gasket
* Complete installation and tuning tip from Dale
Bandit 600 Stage 1 Jet Kit
Part No. B6-JK1 $118.00
also available without the filter
(if you already own one)
Part No. B6-JK1-NF $85.00
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I was hoping that had changed just a little.
Maybe some bowl screws or some needles.
Not that that would make it any better.
Someone said think before you type and I heard "drink before you type"
:duh: :beers: :thanks: