Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: Vlad on November 25, 2010, 01:59:46 PM
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All Suzuki owners who change their own oil are aware of how limited their filter choices are. According to several tests and reviews, best available filters are of only mediocre quality and none are cheap. Almost all other bike owners have dozens of different filters to choose from, most of much higher quality and for a decent price.
What many don't know is that the only reason for that anomaly is the non-standard thread Suzuki decided to mount their filters on. I have found no explanation for this and there is no indication "Suzuki-specific" filters (for lack of a better word) have different basic properties than others.
Fortunately, Suzuki followed other main industry standards (such as filter size, drain-back valve and bypass valve specifications, etc.). Also, the threaded pipe that the filter is screwed on is removable and therefore replaceable. However, until recently the only way to replace it was to fabricate your own - a prohibitively expensive and/or complicated feat for most of us.
Enter Gordon Bales and his Suzuki oil filter adapter. Well crafted, reasonably priced ($15, shipping included) and easy to install. It took me whole ten seconds to order one, received order confirmation from Gordon soon after and another one the day it was shipped. The installation instructions provided on the site cannot be clearer and easier to understand.
So, what am I expecting to gain with this mod?
- Better choice of oil filters.
- Better availability of oil filters.
- Better oil filters, period.
- Option to use bigger oil filter with more filtering media.
- Cheaper.
I also expect better oil flow/pressure and better cooling, especially with 3.25" filters. Who knows, maybe I'll get better gas mileage (kilometrage :) ) too. Bottom line is that nothing can get worse than it is with Suzuki-threaded filters.
I'll most likely buy a whole bunch of SuperTechs and change them every oil change or a few PureOne and change them every other oil change. If I'm ever due for an oil change in the middle of a long trip I'll just grab whatever is available at the first gas station (except Fram) along with my oil (Mobil1 15W50, Shell Rotella T6 5W-40, Shell Rotella 15W-40, or any 10W-40 car oil, in that order).
Sure, my Bandit has 108,000Km and will probably last another 200,000 even without this mod. However, the benefits listed above are worth a little wrenching and a $15 investment, even if taken most conservatively. The whole thing will pay for itself in a season at my rate of oil changes.
Suzuki filter review: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html
Filter cross-reference: http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterXRef.html
Adapter: http://balestech.com/filter.htm
Next: Post-installation impressions.
Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with sites/sources/products/sellers/reviewers mentioned here in any way. I hope many people will find this information useful but I neither receive nor expect any compensation for sharing my experience. If you think I have any ulterior motives please feel free to e-mail your concerns to imaparanoid@aca.cc (my address created specially for you).
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My bike was finally due for an oil change (~7,000Km) so I bit the bullet and installed the adapter. Here is how it went:
- Used adjustable pliers to unscrew the old threaded pipe. it went pretty easy even though the angle was a little awkward and there's not much room to maneuver. Neither the headers nor the oil pipes needed to be (re)moved. Wrapped the threads in leather to preserve them, but still messed them up. No biggie, they are not going back on the bike anyway.
- Tried to screw the adapter in by hand - no dice.
- Tried to screw the adapter in with a socket wrench - no go. Appears like it's catching the the thread but pops out as soon as I try to screw it in.
- Compared the threads on the adapter with OEM. Seem pretty damn close, but not quite identical. The pitch looks OK, but the depth is a tiny bit off - when you put the threads together they don't close the gap completely, although they are not out of sync either.
- Put the adapter in the freezer for half an hour. Still won't screw in.
- Checked the threads on the bike more closely. They don't appear damaged at all, but there are remnants of the thread locker on the first few threads. Took a Dremel type tool with round brass wire brush and brushed the s*&t out of the sucker. I was lucky that it fit between the header pipes.
- The threads finally matched enough to start screwing the adapter in with the socket wrench and a ratchet. It was so hard that it took me half an hour and left a blister on my palm. I finally got it all the way in though. I don't think it needs any thread locker :>
- The Mobil1 M1-110 filter (3.25") went in and on without any heavy maneuvering. The thread on that side was a little tight too, so I couldn't just screw the filter on by hand. It doesn't bother me because I'll do that operation only every other oil change. The bike has to be cold though - I don't think I could put the filter on a hot engine without burning my hand. There is enough room for a 3.25" filter (OEM is 2.5"), but not enough to put it on without touching the headers.
That's all folks. Not as straight-forward as I expected, quite physically demanding and even scary at times (what if I'm stripping the thread?), but it was done properly and relatively quickly. Would I do it again? Probably, but I'm a tinkerer and a bit of a masochist :). I wouldn't recommend it to the faint of heart though.
Now I can use any of these 3.25" filters, most of which are available in auto stores, gas stations, Walwarts... All are supposed to be better quality than OEM, bigger and with more filtering media:
* Purolator Pure One PL14610
* Mobil 1 M1-110 Made by Champion.
* Bosch 3323 Made By Champion.
* WalMart SuperTech ST7317 Made by Champion.
* Wix 1356
Others that also fit (all 3.25" as above):
* AC Delco PF-2057
* Auto Pro 2356
* Autopride CF240AP
* Baldwin B1402
* Carquest 85356
* Carquest Red B4620
* Casite CF240
* Castrol 7317
* Champion Labs Ph2867
* Defense Filters Dl7317
* Deutsch D-370
* Federated Filters LF240F
* Fram Double Guard DG7317
* Fram PH7317
* Fram Tough Guard TG7317
* Fram Xtra Guard XG7317
* Group 7 V4610
* Group 7 V4620
* Hastings LF240
* Mighty M4612
* Motorcraft Long Life FL-821
* Napa FIL1356
* Napa Gold 1356
* Parts Plus PH2867
* Pennzoil PZ-109
* Penske 7317
* Powerflo SL14610
* Powerflo SL14620
* Pro Gauge PGO-4620
* Pro Tec 164
* Promotive PH4610
* Pronto PO3593A
* Purolator L14610
* Service Champ OF-4622
* Shell SH48
* Shell SH529
* Stp S-02867.
* Valvoline VO50
* Warner PH2867
* Wix 51356
For those unable to use filters longer than OEM because of aftermarket headers there are plenty of 2.5" filters. Recommended are:
* Purolator Pure One PL14612
* Mobil M1-108 Made by Champion.
* Bosch 3300 Made by Champion.
* Wal-Mart SuperTech ST6607 Made by Champion.
* Wix 1358
Other 2.5" filters:
* AC Delco PF1237
* Baldwin B1400
* Firestone TF2876
* Hastings LF113
* NAPA Gold 1365
* Purolator L14612
* STP S-02876
* WalMart SuperTech ST6607
* WIX 51365
UPDATE: E-mailed the adapter manufacturer Gordon Bales to let him know how hard installing this adapter was. He responded very quickly, acknowledged that the thread was too tight on some adapters he made, ensured me that the issue is now corrected and thoroughly controlled and offered full refund and a new adapter. It's been a while since I had an honest and straight-forward (let alone apologetic) reply from an online business regarding any issue, so I think this deserves to be noted. I have no doubt Gordon will make good on his promise.
UPDATE 2: As I was writing the previous update the full refund landed in my PayPal account. It's not the money, but a gesture of high moral integrity and professionalism. Kudos to Mr. Bales and all the best to his business!
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Great find Vlad.
In my mind, this makes good sense. Too bad I'm not planning to keep the Bandit, as otherwise this would be a "must do" upgrade to the little B6.
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In my mind, this makes good sense. Too bad I'm not planning to keep the Bandit, as otherwise this would be a "must do" upgrade to the little B6.
I probably won't keep my Bandit forever, but won't try hard to sell it either. It's still running very well and after 100,000Km I can't really expect much for it, so I'll most likely keep it as my sport-touring bike.
My primary motive for the $15 investment in the adapter was availability of good filters in car part stores and even at gas stations. Unfortunately, it so far seems that my expectations were wrong, at least for the area I live in (Toronto). Canadian Tire carries only Fram, MotoMaster and Mobil1. Fram is out of the question and MotoMaster is yet to be evaluated while Mobil1 is $16 a pop. Walmart is even worse - they have only Fram filters. I'll have to check auto parts stores and gas stations next, but I'm not holding my breath. Worst case I'll just buy "motorcycle specific" filters from bike stores, but better ones than those available for the Suzuki thread.
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I saw the outcome of discussion about this over at maxzuki, too heated to do anyone much good.
I don't see any reason why the Pure One PL14610 won't fit with a stock exhaust setup. I'm looking at doing a change soon so I will definitely consider the adaptor.
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Hmmm, here's another little clue I just ran across about the quality of the Pure One:
Purolator PureOne PL14610 Revised:
As some of you know, the inner tube of the PL14610 used to not extend the entire length of the filter, which was thought to possibly lead to filter failure. Last week when I went to go pick up some oil and a filter I checked the PL14610 and to my surprise the tube now extends the entire length of the filter. Even though I don't think the previous design was likely to fail, the PureOne filter now has no weaknesses compared the Mobile 1 filter and is cheaper. Just a heads up for the rest of you guys
I ran across that tidbit here:
http://g35driver.com/forums/engine-drivetrain-forced-induction/133205-purolator-pureone-pl14610-revised.html (http://g35driver.com/forums/engine-drivetrain-forced-induction/133205-purolator-pureone-pl14610-revised.html)
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Hmmm, here's another little clue I just ran across about the quality of the Pure One:
That's good to know, thanks. So far, I barely managed to find Mobil1 here in Canookland. Even though it is a high quality filter I consider it's price of $16 a slap in the face so I won't buy one unless it comes on sale in Canadian Tire.
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The Purolator Pure One PL14610 (and Mobil 1 M1-110 & WalMart SuperTech ST7317) are 3 1/4" long, if that's too long, there's a 3/4" shorter version available in the PL14612 (M1-108 & ST6607).
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The Purolator Pure One PL14610 (and Mobil 1 M1-110 & WalMart SuperTech ST7317) are 3 1/4" long, if that's too long, there's a 3/4" shorter version available in the PL14612 (M1-108 & ST6607).
3 1/4" should be fine, as far as I could measure. I'll buy that size first and report here on how it went.
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For finding the filters at more reasonable prices, find the distributors. I was buying from Napa and from Canadian Tire, or even the stealer, then I thought to check Gregg Distributors (had a filter made by Champion (the people who make the filters for Bosch, Supertech and mobil one) for $2.99, I should be able to find the part number for you if you need.) and Dash Distributors who carries the Purolator filter, and my cost was lower than Napa's cost, by just walking in the door. Granted, my cost was $13, but that's better than the $17 that NAPA would have charged me, and that's from having a neighbor who works there, and family who used to.
I don't know if you have either of those places in Ontario, but I'm sure there are some autoparts distributors whao do counter sales?
Also, be careful. Walmart in Canada has their oil filters made by fram, not by champion.
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Thanks for the info Stormi, I learned something new again. We don't have those stores in Ontario, but I'll see if I can find the equivalent. So far it seems that my main incentive for installing the adapter, filter availability, is greatly diminished. I'll probably still install it since I already paid for it, but it won't bring me any time/effort/money savings that I expected. I'll have better quality filters, but they likely won't cost less or be easier to find.
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3 1/4" should be fine, as far as I could measure. I'll buy that size first and report here on how it went.
You'll have to let us know whether you can get the OEM thread out of your machine without damaging the threads. Seems like a tough nut to crack from the pics on the Bales site.
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You'll have to let us know whether you can get the OEM thread out of your machine without damaging the threads. Seems like a tough nut to crack from the pics on the Bales site.
I do intend to preserve the old pipe thread if at all possible and will report the results. A pipe wrench with a piece of old leather belt should do, but I'll report how it went. I suspect I'll have to take the exhaust pipes off to have enough room for the wrench, but we'll see. I was planning to take them off over the winter anyway.
The adapter arrived yesterday. It looks well machined from solid steel, so I'm sure it will do the job very well. The nut size of 7/8" fit's 22mm wrench perfectly, so I won't have to go out and buy 7/8" just so I can screw this one in. Moving the bike into the basement today. We'll see how long it will take me to get to installing the adapter, but it certainly won't happen before I can find a long filter for it :).
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Thanks for the info Stormi, I learned something new again. We don't have those stores in Ontario, but I'll see if I can find the equivalent. So far it seems that my main incentive for installing the adapter, filter availability, is greatly diminished. I'll probably still install it since I already paid for it, but it won't bring me any time/effort/money savings that I expected. I'll have better quality filters, but they likely won't cost less or be easier to find.
I think once you find the distributors it'll be a fair bit easier on you. Since Ontario is where the stealers warehouse for the country (some in Vancouver BC too), I have no doubt you'll find someone there. Ask some of your snowmobiling friends? The PureOne filter is a big hit with them too.
try the snowandmud.com forums. tons of purolator and filter discussions over there. At least one post was from a canadian (edmonton) on where to buy the filters: http://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f54/where-get-purolator-oil-filters-9310.html
There's also the fact that if I'm thinking of the same filters (i.e. the ones that I had for Dita, internal / just the filter and the metal ends) there's something to be said for the ease of use of a fully contained / external filter which is possibly my favorite feature of the Honda type filters.
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Thanks again Stormi. I'm researching the links and hopefully will go fishin' for filters this weekend. Someone said Canadian Tire MotoMaster is good, but I have to confirm that.
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Someone said Canadian Tire MotoMaster is good, but I have to confirm that.
iirc CT is using wix filters. Probably better than the stealer filter but not the champion or purolator filters.
Most of the distributors will only be open during the weekdays. You might want to try to make a few calls before the weekend.
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I got a "premium" CarQuest filter for now. They are apparently made by Wix and this one looks pretty good to me. It's certainly bigger than OEM, but will fit the Bandit fine.
Speaking of fitting, it looks like I'll have to remove the radiator hoses if I want to have enough room to remove the old thread, and there lies a problem. One of the bolts that hold the radiator hoses is rounded, so I can't remove it even with "sure-grip" socket :(. Couple that with my reluctance to throw away oil/filter after only 3,000Km and it looks like I might not be doing this mode very soon.
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I don't suppose you have two old filters laying around and the necessary cutting tools that you could cut them apart and make two nuts to remove it?
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I don't suppose you have two old filters laying around and the necessary cutting tools that you could cut them apart and make two nuts to remove it?
You mean cut off the bottoms off two old filters tom make two nuts I can "counter" against each other (for lack of a better word) and use them as a wrench to unscrew the filter thread pipe? Sounds like a great idea. I'm just not sure what I would use to grab those "nuts" with. The filter back plates have holes that I can use for leverage... I think I have an old filter lying around, plus the one that's on now, but I don't have good tools to cut them open with unless you count a hacksaw, Dremel and bench grinder...
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Yup, that's what I mean. Might take a little while, but you could do it with the tools you listed. Cut the filters off the plates with a hacksaw, trim the plates into a shape you can grab with Channel-Locks (slip-joint pliers) or Vise Grips with whichever of those is most effecient.
I was actually thinking of cutting through all those holes in the plates and if you are good enough with your tools, you might even be able to fashion at least one of them into a shape you can get a wrench on - even if it is a Crescent (adjustable) Wrench.
It won't be a fast process... but given the special threads Mother Suzuki uses on the pipe, you probably aren't going to find metric nuts in that size and pitch down at the hardware or auto parts store... but you could always take that old filter down and check.
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Thanks for the clarification Red, definitely a good idea. I might still go with removing the radiator pipes since I want to do some work on the radiator too, but I'll definitely have this scheme in mind if I decide to do the adapter mod after.
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I was advised by a member over at another forum that this adapter will not fit on the 1250 water cooled motor. This after I ordered it naturally :duh:
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I was advised by a member over at another forum that this adapter will not fit on the 1250 water cooled motor. This after I ordered it naturally :duh:
Interesting, I would assume they are the same. Do you know what the difference is or why it won't fit? If OEM filters are the same as for 1200 than the only difference can be the part that goes into the engine...
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The second post is updated with post-installation impressions. Check it out.
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Updates on communication with the adapter vendor Gordon Bales added to the second post. In short, this gentlemen has proven as an honest producer/vendor who cares about his customers, responds to concerns quickly and directly and acts immediately to remedy the issue. He definitely earned my business and everyone else who values my opinion and advice.
As mentioned in the first post, I don't personally know Mr. bales (although I can now say that I know him quite well as a businessman) and have no interest (especially not financial) in promoting his business other than sharing my experience as a highly satisfied customer. My apologies to those who find this disclaimer redundant, I just want to discourage potential tinfoil hat responses.
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I installed the oil adapter last month without much fuss. I did end up destroying the thread on the old component in order to break it loose, but the new component fit well and installed easily with a hex socket. A little red loctite as suggested, and no leaks to date.
I haven't gotten to ride hardly at all since then, but I can't detect any troubles in operation so far. I went ahead and used the lower profile Purolator PL14612.
I bought 3 x of them for $5 each on Amazon with free shipping. That should break the cost of buying the OEMs already.
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I installed the oil adapter last month without much fuss. I did end up destroying the thread on the old component in order to break it loose, but the new component fit well and installed easily with a hex socket. A little red loctite as suggested, and no leaks to date.
I've put over 2,000Km on my bike since I installed the tight adapter I initially received and everything is just fine. I got the new one with correctly machined threads (free, thanks to Mr. Bales) in the mean time but I don't think I'll bother to install it instead. M1-110 3.5" filter went behind stock headers without any clearance issues.
I haven't gotten to ride hardly at all since then, but I can't detect any troubles in operation so far.
If it doesn't give you any trouble right away it is not likely that it ever will.
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Just back from a 15,000Km trip (http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?141908 (http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?141908)). The oil and filter changes were done in Canadian Tire parking lots in less than 30 minutes, including the time it took to buy oil and filter. Thanks to the Fumoto valve (http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/ (http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/)) it was also a tool-less affair.
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Awesome Vlad! Good to hear it's working for you.
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Awesome Vlad! Good to hear it's working for you.
Thanks Stormi. The less time I spend on maintenance the more time I have to ride. Especially on a long trip without the benefit of my garage, tools and a stash of oil and filters :).