Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: fake on February 02, 2006, 02:05:19 PM
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As I always do, I checked my oil level this morning before I went to run a erand. What do I see? No oil in the window.... :shock:
I did a 250 mile trip on Monday and the level was fine. I have about 1200 miles on the bike right now, so I pushed it harder than I have since I have owned the bike. I ran at a constant 85 miles per hour for about 20 miles. The bike ran fine through out the entire trip. Half the trip included mountain riding.
So this morning, I find no oil in the window. I take the bike off the center stand and check it by holding it straight; still no oil. I start the bike, let it idel for 5 minutes, then wait about 3 minutes; still no oil. It took almost a 1/2 of quart to get the oil level between the low/full mark. I called my dealership, and they said if it does it again to bring it in. He did say that new bikes tend to burn oil, but not a 1/2 of quart. I did pull two plugs and checked them. They looked normal, except for just a tiny dot of oil at the end of each plug. I was thinking the oil was there because I just let the bike idel for 5 minutes. I checked for leaks, and found nothing. I have no white smoke emitting from the tail pipe either. I'm stumped :sad:
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Maybe you have S.O.E.S. (sudden oil evaporation symdrome) (just kidding)
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Half a quart burned up is not big deal on a bike just breaking in. Especially when you went on a long trip with it which is not advised until after break in. Don't worry about it, mine burned almost the same just breaking in the bike on short trips in the city and checking for the first couple of weeks. Normal. If it isn't normal you'll see fouled plugs and smoke come out the back.
As parts expand and wear in it's going to use a little oil to fill up those crevaces. Also there will be tight tolerances which will create extra heat in spots which may use up a little as well. Think of it this way you did in one trip what most people do in a week or two. Nothing to worry about...yet,
However if it starts burning a quart then it's time to take it to the dealer. Just keep an eye on it till the first service to be safe. If you went on a long trip with the piston rings not fully seated I could easily see you burn up half a quart. Give it some time.
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I'm not worried yet. I have not burned any oil until the other day. I have been on 140 mi round trips on it before, and never a problem. I've ridden two up with the wife numerous times with no problems. I know it's still breaking in with only 1200 miles on the OD. Should the tiny drop of oil I found on my plugs be of concern?
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It could mean your rings are seating properly yet. What oil are you using? How did you break the bike in? Did you give it short bursts of hard acceleration to get the rings seated or did you baby it or long stretches on constant throttle which may have caused slight glazing?
Also if the oil is cold it will sit at a lower level. According to my owners manual you should warm the bike up a bit before checking to let the oil expand a bit, and get all the oil out of any recesses it may be trapped in. I find the best time to check oil is when you've gone on a quick ride and let it sit for a couple of minutes. The warm oil will be very fluid and give you a better idea of what's really in there.
If you check it cold you should only fill it up to the halfway mark so that the oil will have room to expand, otherwise you will overfill it which puts stress on the seals untill the oil blowby past the pistons burn it off. Which is not great for your plugs.
Theoretically, if you checked your bikes oil when warm not cold as you did, it may have shown up in the window just below the half full mark or near the "L" mark which means you didn't lose all that much oil. Within spec for sure.
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This could be the result of being too conserative on break-in. Oil comsuption should be stable by 1200 miles. If the rings are not fully seated by 1200 miles, they never will fully seat.
Check out "Mototuneusa.com/break-in-secrets" and read up about break-in methods.
If nothing else, it is good reading.
His methods are proven and make sense. My '05 B12 was broken using his technique, I had no oil consumption by 500 miles with the bike being run very hard for brief spurts up and down the rpm range but not quite fully to redline.
The key is to have the oil at full operating temp before subjecting the motor to high rpm's.
Good Luck, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED
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Maybe they put the 2001/2002 pistons in your bike by mistake... :crybaby:
Its common to use some oil during break-in. I would say that 0.5 quarts is in the normal range for a new motor break-in. Just top her off and ride! Don't be afraid to run the "r's" up there. Check it again after a 1000 more miles. After break-in your bike should use practically ZERO oil. Don't let anyone tell you different.
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:beers:
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My 05 stopped using about a quarter quart between changes at the 2000 mile mark approx. Didnt use the mototune method for breakin, but it hasnt used a drop in alittle over 2000 miles now.
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My '04 developed a series of small leaks on the motor. I didn't even notice it until I was sitting at an ATM and suddenly a cloud of smoke came up from the front of the motor! :shock:
After finding 3 separate leaks on the front of the engine, the dealer replaced all the gaskets on the top end of the motor, the service manager thought I may have gotten a bad batch of gaskets. Everything was covered under warrenty.
I wouldn't get too concerned, but keep an eye on it. If there is any question be sure to get in before your warrenty expires. It would've been expensive if I had waited another 2 months.
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This could be the result of being too conserative on break-in. Oil comsuption should be stable by 1200 miles. If the rings are not fully seated by 1200 miles, they never will fully seat.
Check out "Mototuneusa.com/break-in-secrets" and read up about break-in methods.
If nothing else, it is good reading.
His methods are proven and make sense. My '05 B12 was broken using his technique, I had no oil consumption by 500 miles with the bike being run very hard for brief spurts up and down the rpm range but not quite fully to redline.
The key is to have the oil at full operating temp before subjecting the motor to high rpm's.
Good Luck, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED
I rode the 1200 easy sometimes, then I would get on it pretty good at others. I don't think I rode to conservative.
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What has me concerned, is my oil level was fine when I left. After I got back and checked it the next morning, the oil level was nowhere to be seen.
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The only way of using oil is to burn it in the combustion chamber (provided you do not have an external leak). How does oil get burned?
It either gets past the valve guide seals (unlikely in your case as the top end is new) or past the piston rings. Rings that are not fully seated will allow oil to seep past into the combustion area where it gets burned off.
The problem with break-in is that you only have a set amount of time to get the rings seated. IMHO, 1200 miles is plenty sufficient.
I would keep a detailed log of oil use and if it persists, bring it to the dealers attention. At the very least a compression check should detect any major abnormality.
Again, if you have not read the mototune article I highly recommend it.
Good Luck, Ed.
2005 GSF1200SZ
1983 GS750ED
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1/2 a quart is not enough to get excited about. Have you changed the factory oil out yet? If not, this is a good time to change it. The initial break in will create more metal filings and debris, and you want to get rid of it. The manual for my 600 calls for the 1st oil change at 600 miles.
Once you get some fresh oil in it, see how the consumption is. Likely your problem will go away, however, if it does not, take it back to the dealer and/or look for leaks.
Also...be happy your riding. Still cold and snowy here for likely another 7-8 weeks. (skiing is good though)
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1/2 a quart is not enough to get excited about. Have you changed the factory oil out yet? If not, this is a good time to change it. The initial break in will create more metal filings and debris, and you want to get rid of it. The manual for my 600 calls for the 1st oil change at 600 miles.
Once you get some fresh oil in it, see how the consumption is. Likely your problem will go away, however, if it does not, take it back to the dealer and/or look for leaks.
Also...be happy your riding. Still cold and snowy here for likely another 7-8 weeks. (skiing is good though)
I put new oil in it 600 miles ago.
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I'm assuming you're still using dino oil. I wouldn't use synthetic for at least 5000 miles to be 100% sure you're broken in. I would just top it up and keep an eye on it till 5000 miles keeping a record of the date you last topped it up and the amount. I'm pretty sure you're still within spec so don't get too excited yet, it's a big motor and gets hot so it's going to use some oil when breaking in.
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Ya, I'm not to concerned yet. My warranty is up in August, so I still have time. I have just never seen a bike burn oil in one trip like that. I have taken my bike on numerous trips, even before the 600 mile mark, and it did not burn a single drop; then all of sudden a 1/2 qt. hmmm
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I have about 1200 miles on the bike right now, so I pushed it harder than I have since I have owned the bike. I ran at a constant 85 miles per hour for about 20 miles. The bike ran fine through out the entire trip. Half the trip included mountain riding.
This may have done it! The 85mph 4 20 miles! Did you pull your drain cap off the airbox drain hose by oil level window? If a bit of oil comes out (oz) the oil went thru the carbs via the air box.. This is normal if you keep the oil @ top level. It don't like to be too full and will make the eng run hotter than it should even in winter!!! :motorsmile:
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Did you change your oil at or around 500 miles? When you did, did you clean and tighten the drain plug?
Having been the recipient of the great piston coverup of 2001 you would notice that much oil getting burned.
-H
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Did you change your oil at or around 500 miles? When you did, did you clean and tighten the drain plug?
Having been the recipient of the great piston coverup of 2001 you would notice that much oil getting burned.
-H
Yep, cleaned it and torqued it to spec. It hasn't burned any since I did the valve adjustment. Every valve was tight, so that may have been the problem???