semi-floating brake rotors

[coolrider]

I recently purchased a 2000 1200S with 28k miles and the front rotors are semi-floating according to my search here. My question is how much should they move or wiggle when you grab and try to shake them? The right one barely wiggles or moves and the left rotor is noticably looser and rattles when you grab and shake it. Should they both have the same amount of play? Is there any way to tighten, clean or adjust?
When I raise the front wheel while on the centerstand, the wheel does not drag and will spin freely and both brakes seem to engage when squeezing the brake lever. I do feel a very slight pull to the right sometimes when grabbing the front brake at road speed. When I am riding on bumpy roads I will hear a rattling noise from the front end which I think is the looser rotor.

[rider123]

Both my front discs are rock solid to the wheel. I'm pretty sure they should be moving at all. I would check it before you lose a rotor or have an accident. It's possible that the bolts loosened. I would try tightening them up a bit to see if the bolts are loose. I'll download the GEN1 manual and look for you, I think the GEN1/GEN2/GSXR1100 use the same wheels and rotors. Generally NOTHING about the braking system(rotors/calipers) should be loose. There should be 5 Allen bolts attaching the rotor to the wheels. I would tighten them. On my Bandit it says to torque the allen bolts to 16FT/lbs. If you want to be really safe, get a milk crate and get a friend to lean on the back of the bike and take the wheel off and prop up the front with the milk crate and take a look on how much play is in the rotors. It may be worth it to take the rotors off and clean the area then re-bolt them back on to the specified torque with some lock-tite on the bolts. I use the blue lock-tite because you never know when you may have to take something off to fix it but if you feel safer with the red/semi-permanant stuff go ahead.

Theres a link for your shop manual in the downloads section. I'd be very careful about driving around until it's checked. I'll download the manual as well and take a look.

[rider123]

Well the link to the manual on this site for your specific year is a corrupted file unfortunately, but from what research I've done I believe it's the same rotors on yours(2000) and mine (2005). The microfiche for yours and my bike rotors are the same on www.bikebandit.com There should be no play in the rotors at all. I figure the bolts may have come loose. Tighten them up to the specified 16 ft/lbs of torque and see if the play goes away. If not maybe they are different or a little worn then tighten until there is no play.

If you don't feel like taking the wheel off I would do this. Rotate the wheel until you can get at one of the bolts. Unscrew the bolt entirely and clean up the bolt. Add a new dolop of locktite and torque to 16 ft/lbs or 23 Nm and go to the next bolt until all have been freshly torqued to the specified level and have a fresh coating of lock-tite. At the minimum you have a piece of mind that all the rotor bolts have been serviced and in-spec. Now check for play, if there is still play, torque down the bolts one at a time again until the rotor is rock solid. I would be very careful about driving around with loose rotors, I can just imagine what a catastrophic rotor failure would do especially when it will most likely happen is when you have to brake for an obstacle. Be safe and take the hour(max) to check.

We are taking about the rotors(discs) correct? Not the calipers?

If its the calipers it's the same deal they should be rock sold to the forks. Torque for the front calipers on my bike which uses different calipers but I think the mounting bolts are the same is 28FT/lbs or 39 Nm. Maybe someone here with a GEN 1 bike can pipe up as the torque numbers I'm giving you may be off. Without solid numbers you can still tighten until there is no play just don't stand on the wrench to make sure it's tight.

[coolrider]

Thanks for the reply.
The 5 allen bolts holding the base of the rotors to the wheels are not loose and there is no play there. It's the outer disc that is attached to the base by 9 rivet looking things that the left disc has more play than the right. You can actually rotate these in place which according to my research elsewhere on the web is OK and the way semi-floating disc brakes should work. Full-floating discs supposedly have more rattle play than semi-floating and are used on most modern bikes. Some folks complain of the rattling noise over bumpy roads on that type too. I'm trying to determine if there is a point that the rivets holding the disc in place become worn, too tight from crud or too loose and if there any way to clean(if no play) or adjust(if too much play). The brakes work fine other than the occassional slight pull, but no pulsing or fading otherwise.

[rider123]

Hmm I'm not sure I could help you there as mine are tight still. I'm trying to find a manual for you that works but the ones in the download section here are corrupt. I can look at what my manual says. They look exactly the same and the microfiche looks exactly the same at www.bikebandit.com. I think New OEM rotors were like $350 bucks or so, but maybe a wrecker might have them cheaper. I'll see what my clymer guide says but I can't offhand remember if there was even a mention on the floating play specs.

If you like you could download the Next GEN manual and see what they say it's in the "downloads" section up top there.

[rider123]

I just went outside now and checked my front and rear and they are totally tight almost like they are one piece. I have about 42K kms on the clock and they feel like they still came out of the factory. Maybe the previous owner had a spill and the rotors got dinged? It wouldn't have to be a big spill even just dumping the clutch in a garage and banging up against a wall or something might be enough to wack them. I bent my bars like that once on another bike I had, when I was doing work on my bike and had greasy hands and they slipped off the clutch. No obvious damage and the bike didn't fall over but I bent my bars and they had to be replaced. I do know that they wear out eventually and I would think that if your uncomfortable with the amount of play it might be an idea to look for some aftermarket or wrecker replacements I wouldn't want a rotor self destructing on the highway. I'll see if I can find you some replacements out there on the world wide weeb that may be better than stock but cheaper. $350 a rotor for OEM's is a little steep. Are you in the States?

[rider123]

Heres a winner:

$146 and they are made by EBC which is in the UK not in some forgotton VC bunker complex on the HO CHI MIHN trail.

http://www.jpcycles.com/2000-suzuki-bandit-1200-california-model-gsf1200sy/rotors

I've used EBC products before and they are of very high quality and have an actual phone number to call if you need help. Also some of the forum members here have bought stuff from JP cycles with good results. In fact you can get a set there for not even the price of one OEM. I would recomend replacing them in pairs if possible. I'm not sure if this is a rear or a front but maybe you could give them a call and ask as websites are not the best for fitment. If this is a rear the front should be a little more but still hundreds less than an "official" Suzuki one.

Here are some more fanciful(ie expensive ones)
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/5/82/10037/19990/PITEM/Braking-STX-Brake-Rotor-2001-Suzuki-Bandit-1200-Parts.aspx

http://www.amazon.com/EBC-XC-Contour-Brake-Rotors/dp/B005OSRLS2


If these are too steep for you, you could go to a wrecker and take a look at what they have, since you know what your looking for you could pick out a rotor with the least/no play.

[rider123]

Heres an interesting video of a guy who just replaced the "buttons" on his EBC rotor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWGUEKXx7fE

If there is a way to replace the buttons that would save you big $$$. I'll see what I can find.

Looky looky, floating disc buttons $6.95 a piece, not sure the size needed etc. but your getting closer:

http://motowheels.com/i-7579497-corse-dynamics-full-floating-rotor-button.html

Heres a forum thread over at the GSXR forums

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69248

from what I read alot of these guys have EBC rotors already which sell the buttons separately but all you need is the right size for the OEM buttons. Suzuki doesn't look like they sell the buttons seperatly I guess they would rather you buy a whole rotor than 5 dollar buttons. But it looks like they come in a standard size ie 5mm 6mm so I'm sure with a little experimentation you could probably get the right size. From what I've read the buttons come on and off pretty easily so you can do it yourself(at least the replacements). You just pry off the back and take the C-clip off and pop a new set in there.


Even better:

https://www.tpoparts.com/cat093/index.php?route=product/product&path=1_45&product_id=225

There you go. I think the buttons are two pieces. You insert one end put the C-clip on there and snap the back end on. It's got to be cheaper than a whole disc! You could probably order just one button, take off one of the old ones and see if the new one fits.

http://www.galferusa.com/html/

These guys make the rotor buttons you could always just call them. Even if you have to go to "full floating" buttons or fancy buttons or whatever they have to be better than what you have now.

Heres another little blurb on the gaffer buttons:

http://www.superstreetbike.com/scenes/0908_sbkp_galfer_rotor_buttons/index.html

You may have to "pretend" you have a gaffer disc so they will sell you some buttons if they don't just help you with the OEM disc.


http://www.tpoparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98

It could be that the previous owner installed "free floating" buttons in some attempt to make the bike brake better?


More:
http://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-rotor-spare-parts.html


Heres another that converts your OEM setup to their FULL FLOATER setup so you know they will definitely sell you the buttons. Considering these brakes are used on some of Suzuki's sport bikes as well you may want to talk to them and ask for the least "slop" version of their buttons which also comes with instructions:


http://www.tpoparts.com/products/?sku_id=G-0005

Unfortunately most are to turn you semi-floating into full floating. You need less slop not more. Maybe install an oversize button? You could order a sample. Ie 5, 6 , 7 mm and pick which gives you the least amount of slop.

[coolrider]

OK thanks for all the good info. I'm still working my way through it for the best option. Now that I know how to remove the buttons, I will take the wheel off and remove the discs for a better evaluation. BTW, the left disc wiggles side to side and forward/aft like the one in the youtube video and the right one doesn't move for/aft but barely side to side.
With a screwdriver and rag for padding, I can turn the buttons on either disc in both directions with a little effort. I am in the US.

[rider123]

Well see how you feel. If your more comfortable with buying new rotors at least you know you don't have to pay super big dollars and the EBC's will probably be slightly better than stock. The thing is I've never had any experience with these "buttons" so I can't really tell you if the OEM's can even come off without maybe drilling them. Thats why I'm wondering if maybe the previous owner has done something like buy aftermarket ones to make his disc "free floating" without realizing there is a price to be paid. In some way that would be a good thing because you can just pay for new ones and the old ones should come off easily.

To be honest I don't get why Suzuki even bothered to put semi-floating discs on their street bikes anyway. It's not like we do a quarter mile burnout trap shoot on a green light then stomp super hard on the brakes at the stop light. While it makes sense in a racing perspective. Unless the liquor store is closing in 2 minutes most people would never need it for the street. Maybe its more a marketing gimmick than anything for the real world. I can understand putting them on a GSXR but on a sports tourer?

Check this poor guy rotor buttons dead after 3000 miles. I get way more milage out of tires let alone an important safety device on my bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbTM75sjtOw

From the info I've gathered it's kind of dangerous to be riding with the rotors like that but there is no real info on any wear limits or anything.

[coolrider]

I took a closer look today with the flashlight at the backside of the loose left front rotor without taking the wheel off. Appears that stock ones do not have removable retainer clips and would have to be drilled or cut out, maybe with a Dremel tool?
But the reason it's loose is because most of the wave washers look like pieces have broken off or missing. The right rotor which is snug has no signs of broken wave washers. I'm looking into replacing the buttons but will need to successfully get the 9 old buttons out or just get a new rotor for under $200?
I don't think the rotor is going to fly off on me soon but will plan a winter job. Hate to stop riding just yet.
Anyone else seen those wave washers break up like this? Parts guy at dealer said he had never seen this.

[rider123]

Maybe it got hit on that side?

[rider123]

Here are some links with guys explaining what they did to get them off

http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/general-ducati-chat/20081-stm-full-floating-rotor-button-kits.html

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/56-superbikes/100691-stm-full-floater-button-install.html


Heres a thread with links to pictures. It seems you have to take the rotor off and then drill out enough to pop them out.

http://www.triumph675.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-19762.html


Heres an instructional video on how to get the old ones out. They are from a Ducati but it gives you an idea of what your up against. It looks like you just drill the old ones out enough so they come apart then pop in the new ones.

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/motowheels/202645-corse-dynamics-full-floating-rotor-buttons.html

I'm sure if you called some of these companies and just explained your problem that your stock buttons are dead and want the least amount of slop possible. I'm sure they would help you out. The holes that the buttons sit in are a standard size. You are buying their stuff so I can't see them not helping you. These rotors are on the GSXR750, RF900, GSXR1100, etc so even though you don't have a sportbike I'm sure someone who has owned a Suzuki sportbike that uses the same rotors probably bought from one of these guys. While they are pretty expensive at $6 x 9 per side. It's still way cheaper than buying a new rotor which is probably perfectly fine.

[coolrider]

Excellent info...thanks.
I'm holding off on replacing the buttons as I have a lead on a set(both sides) of used stock front rotors in good shape for $50 from a '98 1200S. Cheaper and quicker and will leave me with the original loose rotor to experiment with and the other good rotor as a spare. I wasn't ready to spring for new rotors for over $200 from EBC or China.
Looks like there is a right and left side only because the way the Bandit rotor holes are drilled. Other bike's rotors seem to be interchangable because the pattern of drill holes are the same. Look at your bike and see what I mean...almost like a tread pattern that has to be in the correct direction?

[rider123]

Good deal!! Thats what I would do as well as it's just bolt on without having to get out the power tools. I'm imagining they are offset patterns so that the bolts have enough meat in the rim to screw into without them bumping up or failing with too many holes drilled too close together in the aluminum. I'll go out and take a look. I have the next generation(2001-2005) and I wonder if its the same. It cool I can learn a new thing or two still, I never knew you could tweak your "buttons" :-). You think people would want less slop not more but maybe they use their bikes for track days alot or whatever. Every bike I've owned except this one have had solid discs and I've never said to myself "Wow this bike barely stops I need more slop!!" I think unless your on the track, this is more of a gimmick then a real world usage sort of thing for the street. Hence the semi-floating it "looks cool" like a full-floating but doesn't have the sloppiness of a full-floater as they would probably have 2342236486089 warranty claims claiming the brakes were "rattly". Maybe these "button" makers should have a marketing slogan:

"You want more stop? You need more slop!!"


In some ways were pretty lucky the Bandit is a "parts" bike because if something breaks we can stick on the same part from another Suzuki on there and it works fine. Hell some guys here have 80's GSXR750 cams on their bike for another 15 horsepower. You can't get a better bike for parts interchangeability.

I'm going to check my bike to see if the discs actually have a left and a right or are the bolts just offset. Sometimes Suzuki have an "official" left and right but they are fully tansferable. I broke a couple of those cheap ass turn signals a couple of times on this bike and they do have a left or right, my friend ordered a right instead of a left and it fit perfectly fine. I guess if you get a set of discs you could switch them or look at them better. I'd be willing to bet a dollar that the discs are identical due to the fact you don't want 2 huge pieces of rotating steel with different weight or sizes or bolt patterns to keep the wheel balanced, I would guess that maybe the bolt holes are offset instead to increase strength.