Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MECHANICAL & TECHNICAL => Topic started by: stormi on May 14, 2007, 11:08:06 PM
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Hey everyone,
This has been a problem since we pulled the old girl out of storage this year.
At first, she would turn over slowly,.. then faster faster and catch. Today, it became a:
rrr.....rr.......................r........................ click.
And stormi gets to screw up her back bump starting the bike again.
The other half said it -could- be battery, or a loose connection but we hadn't yet tested it, I said starter. I'm not convinced it's either at this point.
I have a spare starter, and I just tested the battery, before an attempted start, it was 12.18V, after an attempted start 11.20V. So,.. that seems to me that the charging system is OK, but there's a HUGE draw.
But that click (from the starter relay),... it seems wrong for a starter problem,.. no?
I'm gonna head outside and do a removature, and see if I can tell if that's the problem, I sort of hope it is, because of the spare,.. but do they usually fail this fast?
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Stormi... it's not so much the volts as it is the amps. It could read 12 volts but not have enough amps or "grunt" to start it. And below 12 volts is not good either.
Offhand it sounds like either a weak battery or bad connection/cables/terminals. Do you have another battery from one of your other bikes you could substitute? Or take that battery and try it in another bike?
Try charging it overnight. Take off your cables and clean the terminals real good. Check the water level. Then go from there. :wink:
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I'm not totally sure. The starting system is so not my forte. I have only one other bike with a battery. It's the 919. Here's the thing. The batteries are fairly different.
The 919 uses a YTZ10S, which I think is a 10A battery (though yuasa's site says 8.6A). It has 190CCA, The suzuki uses a YTX9-BS - 12V,8AH battery and 120 Cold Cranking Amps.
Here's what I can never remember,.. is it amps I can "ignore", as in more is fine, less not so good... or watts or volts?
The change of starter didn't do the job btw, same behavior.
Which reading will I get when I test the amps on the bike? Resting, or CCA? ( I really don't get along with my multimeter. Once a year I use it, and once a year, I have to relearn how it works.)
I did make sure the connections were good. Both to the starter, and to the battery. The connectors look good, but I will clean them tomorrow.
See if I get Dita new exhaust anymore after this little antic!! (http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=8930.0)
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And stormi gets to screw up her back bump starting the bike again.
It's just a little scoliosis, you don't have to call it a "back bump".
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And stormi gets to screw up her back bump starting the bike again.
It's just a little scoliosis, you don't have to call it a "back bump".
erm,.. k,.. let me correct my punctuation. :roll:
And stormi gets to screw up her back, "bump starting" the bike again.
I damn near dropped her on her brand new pipe today while bump starting her. *sigh*
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You can ignore watts... volts are important, but amps are the "juice" you need to crank the starter.
Turn the ignition on without starting it. How's the headlight? Does it stay nice and bright even after 10 minutes?
If you already changed the starter, then that ain't it. The terminals should be taken completely off and cleaned thoroghly with wire brush or sandpaper.
Otherwise I'm guessing it's your battery.
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Took the battery out, and it's currently charging. It's been charging almost 1.5Hrs at 900mA, and hasn't hit maintenance mode yet, so it was definately low on amps.
Here's a neat thing... before I put it on to charge, I turned the multimeter to DC Amps in the 10A range, and tested it. Nothing. Zip, zilch, Zero. Then I tried the Common lead in the 10A unfused postion,... still nothing. Could the battery truly have had absolutely no amps? Or is there something wrong with my multimeter (blown fuse?), or Did I somehow mess up the logic on that? It did read at 12.22V,.. so the volts part recovered while I let it sit...
I guess what I was saying was if it's more Amps,.. am I risking frying anything? Is there any reason, based on what I posted above why I should or shouldn't try the 919's battery?
Hah! On the B4, the light would never stay bright more than a minute or 2, even fully charged with a brand new battery.
The reason I thought starter is the other half's brother had a POS jeep that had a bad starter and it would start slow then speed up with the turning, then finally catch. Lots of fun when he's living in your basement and leaves for work really early, and his jeep is outside your window while he's trying to start it every morning. He replaced the starter and that problem went away. :shrug:
Proved myself wrong though with the swap tonight. Lost all that skin for nothing. Oh well. :wink: (It WAS worth it to do that work, and let the other half supervise the pre-teen and her co-pre-teen friend! *I'da poked my eyes out*. Of course there were wedgies all around with all those low cut jeans. *evil grin* )
Hmm,.. remove the terminals altogether? That could be a real chore on the b4. I'll post pics tomorrow as to why that is,.. but mainly it's because they're part of the wiring loom...
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Zens right :shock:, swap a good battery even a car battery with short cables just to verify the starting system will crank correctly. If a known good power source and new starter still has her cranking slow, then the relay my be pitted to the point that it is not passing enough current to the starter. After starting up the bike to test the charging system just pull the positive lead off the battery momentarily, the bike should continue to run, if not the charging system has a problem.
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Bad battery is my vote. You can only read amperage of electricity in motion. If you try that amp check again while starting you should see a reading. Also if it was pulling an excess of amperage (bad starter) you will feel heat in the cable to the starter and likely a lot of it.
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Stormi, if the battery terminals are corroded between the lead battery posts and the cable-end clamps, you must take them apart to clean them. It's good maintenance anyway.
Also check the cables themselves, corrosion can get under the rubber insulation. Squeeze and roll them between your fingers and feel for softness or crunching.
If you get it running and take a cable off to see if it still runs, take the negative cable off, not the positive. If the positive is hot and you touch it to ground, you could damage the charging system.
If you charge the battery and it still does the same thing, the battery could still be bad. It just means it won't hold a charge, it won't hold any amps.
It won't hurt to switch batteries. :wink:
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Well, we priced a starter relay out last night. ($45 USD) Since I have a few parts to order anyway, I'm going to run through the test in the service manual and perhaps order one as a spare as well.
I'm also going to run her through the Electrosport test, to test the whole AVR system prior to picking up a battery for her. (Which, by virtue of putting the battery back in, also lets me test out all the other things we've talked about here too. :)) Messing with battery cables while running scares the hell out of me though, it's tight in there, and I don't feel like a new hairdo...
So, if I can use a car battery, that means effectively then, I -can- ignore the amps, as long as the volts are right?
The other half mentioned that this -is- the same battery that we had a failed Regulator rectifier do its number on, so maybe its time is just up.
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Bad battery is my vote. You can only read amperage of electricity in motion. If you try that amp check again while starting you should see a reading. Also if it was pulling an excess of amperage (bad starter) you will feel heat in the cable to the starter and likely a lot of it.
Oh Duh!! I think I knew that. :shock: :wink: That's why that electrosport test is done with the bike on.
I will check the temperature of the cables and starter while testing as well. I did notice the starter seemed hot yesterday (burnt my hand on it), but the engine was hot too, so it was a bad time to test, so I made a mental note to check that again after I got home and let her cool. Then I tossed the note away. :roll:
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You can have a battery that's capable of putting out more cranking amps than you need, the system will just draw what it needs and the remainder is in reserve.
Have you tried jump starting? I jumped my B12 with my riding mower after months of non-use when I returned from France. Worked great.
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I see no corrosion at all, but I will look a lot closer at all parts now that it's light out. That's one benefit of our -usually- dry climate. Corrosion isn't often an issue. I'll go find the sandpaper and make sure she's got a good chance at starting.
Check,.. Neg cable if I'm brave enough. Like I said, it's tight in there, and I have grounded by accident in there once or twice. Blew up a screwdriver bit that way.
I know I'm being a little neurotic, I just didn't want to have to buy 2 batteries (one for Blue and one for Dita), and some more charging system parts for Dita if I guessed wrong.
Poor Blue,.. first Dita gets a slip on, then he becomes a donor bike for her. Bad day for the Honda. :wink:
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You can have a battery that's capable of putting out more cranking amps than you need, the system will just draw what it needs and the remainder is in reserve.
THAT's what I was trying to get at! :) Thanks!
Have you tried jump starting? I jumped my B12 with my riding mower after months of non-use when I returned from France. Worked great.
Yeah, the muffler shop did it yesterday to test for leaks. Started right up after barely a touch to the start button. Oh,... now that I think about it, that points to the battery too doesn't it?
See what happens when I take 6 months off from troubleshooting,... er,.. riding?
The jumping is a temporary measure though. I want to fix the problem permanently. Technically, I don't need a starter, just a month or so of working out so I have the upper body strength to push start her all the time... ;)
So,.. how come on the Jeep, the solution was a starter, and on the bike it's more than likely the battery, but the symptoms are (were) the same ( til yesterday's fiasco)
Yeah yeah,... I'm going out to test it, cos I won't get anything else done til I do.
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Hi Stormi
After reading the thread and your comments it sounds like you need a battery.
A fully charged battery should measure 13.2 - 13.4 volts (it's funny that we call it a 12 v system?). 2.22 v per cell, 6 cells. Usually the charging system will output at 13.8-14.4 volts, so if you check it when the bikes running, it will be the higher numbers. If it's dropped below 11.5 v after a short try at starting, one or more cells is weak, indicating the battery is toast.
It's harder to check the current draw. Any battery place can load test a battery to determine if its still good however.
Don't start spending money on other things, (starter, solenoid, etc) until you are sure the battery is good.
If you are hearing a loud "TACK" like I expect you did on the Jeep, the solenoid is trying to engage the starter, but the starter is NOT turning. The same would be true on Dita, but it did try to turn over first, then you heard the click, click. (Just a guess, I wasn't there.)
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That is a loaded question, but here goes. Bike has a very small battery and so a very small reserve of power to keep on cranking. The low amps cause it to under rev and not start. The jeep has a large battery, but the fault in the starter most likely was a poor connection in the solenoid. That was causing it to "starve" for amperage that was available but not getting through. The result again was low rpm, so I would guess it was the symptom that was the same and not the cause. I would imagine the jeep would keep cranking slow for quite a while as opposed to the bikes one shot. Like I said that is a really tough question so it is just one possible answer.
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Hi Stormi
After reading the thread and your comments it sounds like you need a battery.
Yup,.. it's official. I went through the electrosport test, and it agrees with ya all. It says charging system good, battery fubar.
A fully charged battery should measure 13.2 - 13.4 volts (it's funny that we call it a 12 v system?). 2.22 v per cell, 6 cells. Usually the charging system will output at 13.8-14.4 volts, so if you check it when the bikes running, it will be the higher numbers. If it's dropped below 11.5 v after a short try at starting, one or more cells is weak, indicating the battery is toast.
Probably not unlike the way we do things in the computer industry. Numbers actually round out to 1024, but are usually rounded off to 1000. I'll get the shop to test the battery while I'm there, but I think you all are right, it's shot. It's a shame though, cos I tried to take care of this one.
Don't start spending money on other things, (starter, solenoid, etc) until you are sure the battery is good.
The starter I had, the solenoid I have seen enough fail that a spare wouldn't hurt, but I'll wait til the next order of stuff, this one will go through without. What it comes down to is that it's worth it to order it with other stuff, rather than pay the Canadian prices.
If you are hearing a loud "TACK" like I expect you did on the Jeep, the solenoid is trying to engage the starter, but the starter is NOT turning. The same would be true on Dita, but it did try to turn over first, then you heard the click, click. (Just a guess, I wasn't there.)
I don't remember the Tack sound on the Jeep,.. just the annoying slow to wake up and then finally catch after what seemed like 30 secs of cranking. I do know this Tack you speak of on the Bike though. It's the click I referred to.
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That is a loaded question, but here goes. Bike has a very small battery and so a very small reserve of power to keep on cranking. The low amps cause it to under rev and not start. The jeep has a large battery, but the fault in the starter most likely was a poor connection in the solenoid. That was causing it to "starve" for amperage that was available but not getting through. The result again was low rpm, so I would guess it was the symptom that was the same and not the cause. I would imagine the jeep would keep cranking slow for quite a while as opposed to the bikes one shot. Like I said that is a really tough question so it is just one possible answer.
That makes sense to me. :)
Here's the other question then... is there no way to have a more powerful battery with the small footprint required for the motorcycle? Sort of a beer keg in a beer hat size? (Figured that was an analogy all the guys would get ;) )
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Maybe someday - if they ever let us have nuclear batteries. :bandit:
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Well,.. here's a neat development. took the battery in today,...and it tested good.
So,.. charging system is good, battery is good, she turns over fine today after charging the battery out of the bike,... I really don't like gremlins. :shock:
Any ideas anyone? I picked up a new battery anyway. $55
Ahh,.. nuclear isn't all -that- scary... ;)
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Charging the old battery might have brought it back enough to test good.
But if I were you, I'd test for a current drain. I'd put the new battery in the bike.
1. Hook up both battery terminals and start the bike.
2. With the bike running, activate all your lights and accessories momentarily... brake light, high/low beam, turn signals, everything. Then make sure everything is turned off.
3. Shut the bike off and disconnect the negative battery terminal.
4. Using a simple test light, touch one lead to the negative battery post and the other to the cable clamp.
If the bulb lights up then you have a current drain.
A current drain could be any closed circuit anywhere on the bike that is causing the battery to drain even when the key is off and nothing is turned on. If you have one, then you'll have to test every electrical component and wire on the bike till you find it.
If you don't, then just install the new battery and don't worry about it, it's probably fine and it was the old battery all along.
Don't get frustrated, Stormi! Ya gotta learn to enjoy this kinda stuff! :lol:
Think of it as a challenge... matching your wits against the gremlins.... a mechanical chess game. Remember, every time you fix a problem like this you learn something valuable. Next thing you know, you'll be the one giving the answers on the board instead of asking the questions! :bigok:
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If all is well from here on out, get yourself a quality battery tender that self regulates for the entire storage period (full time). They come with a quick connector for your battery that will allow you just to snap it in. The best way if you know your bike is winterized for 6 months, disconnect the battery from the bike terminals as this will ensure no tiny drainage against the battery tender. Your battery should last for more years then you'd expect.
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Charging the old battery might have brought it back enough to test good.
The girl at the battery shop was quite surprised as well. She said usually if they're bad, they don't test as perfect, which this one did. 265cranking Amps, and the full 120 CCA. She tested it multiple times, because we were both so surprised.
But if I were you, I'd test for a current drain. I'd put the new battery in the bike.
1. Hook up both battery terminals and start the bike.
2. With the bike running, activate all your lights and accessories momentarily... brake light, high/low beam, turn signals, everything. Then make sure everything is turned off.
3. Shut the bike off and disconnect the negative battery terminal.
4. Using a simple test light, touch one lead to the negative battery post and the other to the cable clamp.
If the bulb lights up then you have a current drain.
A current drain could be any closed circuit anywhere on the bike that is causing the battery to drain even when the key is off and nothing is turned on. If you have one, then you'll have to test every electrical component and wire on the bike till you find it.
If you don't, then just install the new battery and don't worry about it, it's probably fine and it was the old battery all along.
Alright, I have another gremlin to work out, then I'll test for a leak. I wonder if I didn't just find "the right" cable to wiggle, and the problem is going to go away for a few months. That's so Dita.
Don't get frustrated, Stormi! Ya gotta learn to enjoy this kinda stuff! :lol:
Think of it as a challenge... matching your wits against the gremlins.... a mechanical chess game. Remember, every time you fix a problem like this you learn something valuable. Next thing you know, you'll be the one giving the answers on the board instead of asking the questions! :bigok:
While I'm capable of the troubleshooting, I hate it. I hate that I have to do it all the time with her. Sometimes, I like to have quality time with her, and you know.... ride. But I figure out more than my fair share of the problems, and usually post them for posterity's sake. ( Maybe you just don't hang out in the B4 forum enough ;)) I rarely get beat by a machine, but when I do,.. it's almost always Dita.
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If all is well from here on out, get yourself a quality battery tender that self regulates for the entire storage period (full time). They come with a quick connector for your battery that will allow you just to snap it in. The best way if you know your bike is winterized for 6 months, disconnect the battery from the bike terminals as this will ensure no tiny drainage against the battery tender. Your battery should last for more years then you'd expect.
Oh I've already got that covered. The logistics issue here is that we don't have a garage, or even permanent power to the shed, so putting her on the battery tender is a little tough, but both she and Blue have their own battery pigtails hanging out of them, and their batteries get to sleep inside the house in the winter. This is also why I expected her battery to last more than 2 years, almost to the day.
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Don't get frustrated, Stormi! Ya gotta learn to enjoy this kinda stuff! :lol:
Think of it as a challenge... matching your wits against the gremlins.... a mechanical chess game. Remember, every time you fix a problem like this you learn something valuable. Next thing you know, you'll be the one giving the answers on the board instead of asking the questions! :bigok:
While I'm capable of the troubleshooting, I hate it. I hate that I have to do it all the time with her. Sometimes, I like to have quality time with her, and you know.... ride. But I figure out more than my fair share of the problems, and usually post them for posterity's sake. ( Maybe you just don't hang out in the B4 forum enough ;)) I rarely get beat by a machine, but when I do,.. it's almost always Dita.
My apologies... I didn't mean to infer that you weren't capable!
I was just saying that it's better on one's health to approach things positively... as I found out when I started taking my blood pressure meds.
Believe me, my toolboxes are covered with dents from slinging wrenches at it. Just when you think you get something beat, another quirk pops up. I had to learn to approach things as a game, and look forward to the challenge, rathr then dreading it. It was easier doing that at work because I got paid for it... harder to work on your own stuff.
You're right, I hardly ever go into the 400 forum... are you sure you want me in there nosing around? :lol:
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Here's the other question then... is there no way to have a more powerful battery with the small footprint required for the motorcycle? Sort of a beer keg in a beer hat size? (Figured that was an analogy all the guys would get ;) )
Absolutely. There are tons of different rechargeable battery chemistries out there. Our bikes and cars almost always use lead acid batteries.
Nickel Cadmium (NiCad) has about 150% the energy density of lead-acid.
Nickel Metal Hydride (Nimh) has about 200%.
And Lithium ion / Lithium polymer (LiIon/LiPo) have about 300% the energy density of Lead Acid.
All have their advantages/disadvantages. Weight, price, discharge rates, discharge cycles, ability for deep voltage discharge, etc...
The disadvantage of lead acid is it's the lowest on the energy density scale of the above. It's also heavy compared to the others.
The advantages are pretty big however. It's cheap. Easy to manufacture, long shelf life (store forever...just add electrolyte). It has a low internal resistance, so it has the ability to source a lot of current (amps) very quickly. This is handy when turning starter motors which can pull hundreds of amps. It is the easiest to charge. And it's been around forever.
The manufacturers are pretty smart and size batteries to fit all reasonable applications plus a little margin if you want to add some extra lights or grip warmers. There usually shouldn't be a need to change chemistry to gain extra capacity.
The only REAL reason I see to replace your car or bike's battery with a different chemistry would be for weight savings. You would most likely have to rework your charging and potentially your starting system. You would also have to spend more on the new batteries and make a custom pack.
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While I'm capable of the troubleshooting, I hate it. I hate that I have to do it all the time with her. Sometimes, I like to have quality time with her, and you know.... ride. But I figure out more than my fair share of the problems, and usually post them for posterity's sake. ( Maybe you just don't hang out in the B4 forum enough ;)) I rarely get beat by a machine, but when I do,.. it's almost always Dita.
OMG, I feel your pain there. Yesterday was the first time in months I got to ride my bandit after finally getting it to run reliably.
It never idled well since I bought it nearly 2 years ago. After it failed smog, it was carbs off/cleaning & o-rings/on/balance/off/turn air screws/on/balance/off/turn the air screws again...ad infinitum. Constantly chasing a lean condition until I finally cranked the air screws out 3 turns. Another carb balance, and it passed smog with flying colors. Idling smoothly around 1400 with no miss anymore! Snif, snif. Brought a tear to my eye.
Felt so nice to ride again! Perfect riding weather too. Highs in the low 100's :grin:
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My apologies... I didn't mean to infer that you weren't capable!
I didn't think you were. I would think you're well aware of the truth of that matter. ;)
I was just saying that it's better on one's health to approach things positively... as I found out when I started taking my blood pressure meds.
Believe me, my toolboxes are covered with dents from slinging wrenches at it. Just when you think you get something beat, another quirk pops up. I had to learn to approach things as a game, and look forward to the challenge, rathr then dreading it. It was easier doing that at work because I got paid for it... harder to work on your own stuff.
I think what's getting me is the fact that she can come up with "tricks" faster than I can fix them some days. I do wonder of some of it comes from letting her sit 6 months of the year. They're really not meant to do that, they're meant to be working.
And of course, I can live without getting beat up all the time too. I have 16 cuts, bruises, and scrapes, and one blister from all of this. My fingers are sore from weaving them into tight spots to try to turn or grasp things that I can't get tools in there for, and somehow both thumbs have the skin separated from the fingernails at the tips. This looks totally awesome to a new client when you hold out your hand to shake theirs and they notice that your hand is all red and torn up, and your fingernails have grease under them. :roll: They start wondering if you've come to fix their car, or train them on their computers...
You're right, I hardly ever go into the 400 forum... are you sure you want me in there nosing around? :lol:
Well,.. I dunno,... I might have to warn the mods that you're coming ,... :stickpoke:
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Absolutely. There are tons of different rechargeable battery chemistries out there. Our bikes and cars almost always use lead acid batteries.
It seems to me that we'd benefit from non-spillable, and higher powered batteries on a bike. Of course the NiMH and Lithium also has the problem of being good for only so many charges... that's not good for something that's constantly being charged.
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OMG, I feel your pain there. Yesterday was the first time in months I got to ride my bandit after finally getting it to run reliably.
It never idled well since I bought it nearly 2 years ago. After it failed smog, it was carbs off/cleaning & o-rings/on/balance/off/turn air screws/on/balance/off/turn the air screws again...ad infinitum. Constantly chasing a lean condition until I finally cranked the air screws out 3 turns. Another carb balance, and it passed smog with flying colors. Idling smoothly around 1400 with no miss anymore! Snif, snif. Brought a tear to my eye.
Felt so nice to ride again! Perfect riding weather too. Highs in the low 100's :grin:
Yay! Happy day! :motorsmile:
Hurts doesn't it? For us it's extra painful, because we wait all winter to ride, then she does things like this. Some days I just look at her, shake my head, take the helmet off and go get the keys for the Mustang.
Is there no flexy screwdriver you can get to make that corner so you don't have to take the carbs off to adjust?
(says the girl that keeps promising to sync the carbs, but usually gives up when Dita runs properly, lest I piss her off enough that she breaks something else after the sync.)
We're at about 75 today,.. and I'm loving it. :) Now that both bikes are running, I may just insist that our wednesday trip in is on the bikes, not in the car.
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And it looked like it might rain, so we took the car in instead. Oh well.
Here's the update on the battery: spent half the afternoon working out her other gremlin (throttle cable related, causing her to race to 14K rpms at idle.), and in the process, must have started her 10 times, and not a hiccup. This is using her old battery still.
I -completely- forgot to do the drain test, but I will maybe try that tomorrow.
This evening, we took her for a quick ride, and she behaved very well (or as well as a 400 with new exhaust, but no jetting can do anyway - don't worry, she's still running rich, no seized engines in Dita's near future.)
So Dita's "short list" of things to do:
organic and steel plates in the clutch
water pump hose
carb sync
jetting
after that, I'm considering trying to get her out onto the track. :motorsmile:
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I'm having the same exact problem with my bandit except I know the battery is brand new. I had an overheat issue in the beginning of May and the bike wouldn't start when I shut it down to cool off. The starter simply whirred away never linking up with the flywheel to crank the motor. I just did a carb rejetting and cleaning and tried to start the bike, nothing. Whirrrrrrrrrrrr. I can hear the starter spinning something but what I can't tell.
I'm guessing I need to break out the service manual and multimeter and begin testing relays and stuff. When the bike overheated, I did manage to get it bump started and rode it home which took an hour. So I know the motor isn't seized. The plugs look great and as far as I know this was the first time the motor overheated from sitting in traffic idling. The previous weekend I had a problem starting it too when I was low on gas and it stalled at a light. It didn't want to turn over, just clicked, whirred, and somehow did start. I guess because I was still rolling forward a bit.
I know my carbs were a bit off and kind of dirty. The shop that did the cleaning two years ago did not reassemble them properly (springs in 2 top caps all kinked and bound, pilot screws not set evenly) so that contributed to the running lean and horrendously. Could I have a bad starter too? Or a relay I fried somehow?
This Stinks! :taz:
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Well, I'm finally going to get a chance to do that leak test that Zen mentions above today, because I'm convinced there's still something wrong here. We haven't changed the battery yet, and she starts reliably for probably 3 or so days after her battery is fully charged with a battery tender, then she starts to slow down. I do suspect the battery now, but I find her behaviour very bizarre. Luckily the other half has gotten good at bump starting her in about 10 feet flat. :roll:
As for your problem, I'd be inclined to say that you have a mechanical problem with the starter if it turns, but doesn't turn the engine. (Or the gear (I wanna say ring gear, but is that right on a bike??) it uses to engage the flywheel, hopefully not the flywheel or anything inside the engine cases) If you hear a "click" near the battery when you try to start it, the relay and the starter solenoid work. (That's the click click I was referring to in my original post)
In the manual, (or at least I assume this should be there, as it is in the B400 manual) there should be a section on testing and rebuilding the starter. There are a ton of parts inside, but it's completely doable.
Which bike do you have, BTW? B6 or B12?
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I have the B12. You can definitely hear and feel the starter spinning freely. I don't think the battery is the issue. I wonder if overheating could have fried something in the starter? Perhaps the weekend before the overheat there was an issue and the overheating pushed it over the edge.
**Edit**
I'm reading through the manual and it says "Engine does not turn though the starter motor runs" is a faulty starter motor clutch. That sounds fun. How much fun I guess I'm about to find out.
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LIB - Check the starter clutch! (The B12's equivalent to the ring gear in a car.) It's behind the left crankcase cover, which also covers the starter pinion. The most common thing is the bolt that holds it to the end of the crank (#4 below) has worked its way loose. Seems several escaped the factory without getting locktite and the proper torque.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/starter_clutch.jpg)
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Sounds great to me. Is there a gasket I need to replace when I remove that cover? Also I keep hearing about this loktite stuff. Can I use the permatex aviation gasket stuff I use on marine engines? It is a gasket sealer, anti-corrosion applicant that is used on bolts, nuts, gaskets, etc.
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If you're careful, you can get the cover off with the gasket intact. If not, you can use a silicone gasket-in-a-tube.
Loctite is a thread locking fluid that you apply to threads that will cure and lock the fastener. You can find it at most auto parts stores. It comes in several strengths, the weakest one is fine. The strongest stuff will make removal VERY difficult, should you ever need to.
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Hopefully I don't need some of the special tools in the manual to hold things in place??
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Just put it in 1st gear. If the motor tries to turn the back wheel before you get it to torque, apply rear brake.
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It worked. The bolt was pretty much wrench loose. I did my best to tighten it to spec but I wasn't able to get it much past 75 ft-lbs. Spec is around 108 ft-lbs. I had to use a screwdriver in between the teeth of the sprocket in there to keep it from spinning. The brake lever and first gear trick didn't work. It turned over wonderfully. Better yet, it sounds great! As in great I didn't mess up the carb re-jetting. I may not have to even tinker with it much at all if any tinkering is needed. I took it on a short ride and didn't get to open it up much at all. Drizzle on the roads right now.
I'll know more tomorrow when I give it a proper testing.
Thanks to all who helped!
:clap:
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Yay! Congrats!! Happy riding!
Off to go look at some fairings myself here...