Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: gyrogearcrunch on November 23, 2006, 01:38:13 PM
-
Has anyone been able to find a road test on the new 1250 Bandits? Is that 1255cc engine the rumored Hayabusa motor :?: (slobber, drool). At $8200 or so, it looks like they've done it again ($6900 would have been better). Go to www.suzuki.com, <standard>, for a look.
Herb
"Too much torque is just enough"
-
It is not the Busa engine. New design from what I've read. :beers:
-
It is not the Busa engine. New design from what I've read. :beers:
Thanks for the reply. I saw pictures of the 'Busa engine, and it sure looked like the new Bandito motor on the outside. Maybe Suzuki is using the same castings used on the 'Busa engine. :thanks:
Herb (the original one) :motorsmile:
-
The new 2007 Bandit was sold in Canada & Europe as a 2006 model with the sachs air cooled engine. To say this bike was redesigned was a bit of a stretch. Yes, it had new plastic, new tank & seat but basically the bike was the same bike as the 2005 model.
The New bandit (2007) has a new liquid cooled engine mounted on a fram that has thicker drop legs than the 2005 bandit, but really, it is the same waterpipe frame. The new 2007 Bandit also has gained 50 lbs, and from Dyno numbers that a French site posted, puts out the same peak HP & Torque at slightly lower RPM than a 2005 air cooled model. The new Bandit is also available with ABS brakes.
I would venture to say the new Bandit not an entirely new bike, but rather has received upgrades from the old model.
I was quoted $10,500.00 (Canadian) for a 2007 model with ABS. This is a $2000.00 increase over the 2006 model here.
Personally, I feel that Suzuki has priced the Bandit in an area where a much more modern bike like the FZ-1 can be had. People are going to say here that the FZ-1 has quirks, but we have not riden the 2007 Bandit yet have we? I bet there will be new model suprises just like every other bike.
I have not yet seen any ride reports on the 2007 Bandit. Here are some dyno charts a French Mag posted on both the 1250 & 650 Bandits. It appears there is no HP increase on the new B-1250.
(http://www.motards-online.com/moto-essais-articles/images/illus/2007_Suzuki_GSF_bandit_1250_b2_01.jpg)
(http://www.motards-online.com/moto-essais-articles/images/illus/vignettes/suzuki_gsf650_bandit_650_2007_650performance_curve.jpg)
-
I saw the new Bandit ABS at the Ft Worth Cycle World show. I took a couple dozen pics, sat on it, etc.
The engine is not a 'Busa derivative because it has a central mounted cam chain design. It's a unique motor- don't know what would work for mods. I think the bike is similiar to the Gen 3 model sold outside the US with installation of the new engine and heavier frame downtubes.
I asked the Suzi people about the bike. One rep said for sure it would have more power than the old bike and another rep said they get the horsepower figures from CycleWorld roadtest(!).
Until it's tested, I don't think anyone has a clue how it compares to the older Bandits. It certainly looks like a more finished bike, perhaps it's more Sport Touring oriented?
My guess is that is probably has more torque to pull around the extra 30lbs but about the same power, so performance should be about equal but the bike will be a little more smooth & comfy. But that is only a guess. Perhaps it will also have more Suzi power too?
-
The new 2007 Bandit was sold in Canada & Europe as a 2006 model with the sachs air cooled engine. To say this bike was redesigned was a bit of a stretch. Yes, it had new plastic, new tank & seat but basically the bike was the same bike as the 2005 model.
Well, Bazza, you may want to think that over some.....
The '06 model really only held over the engine and the frame....and even the frame was changed somewhat.
Pretty much everything else was new:
Completely upgraded front end including new braking system and, for those wanting such complexity, available ABS
New fairing with (IMO) far[/u] better lighting and somewhat better wind protection
New clocks
New tank design moving you closer to the bars
New adjustable two piece seat
New design stronger/longer swingarm
I'd have to say the advertising hype got it about right on the '06 models. I guess it all depends on how you define "new".....
BTW, I think you meant SACS rather than "sachs"...right??
-
I thought the 2007 model was the first bandit with Fuel Injection and Water cooled. From what I understood ALL models up until this one were still Carb, and Air/Oil cooled....did I miss something?
-
I thought the 2007 model was the first bandit with Fuel Injection and Water cooled. From what I understood ALL models up until this one were still Carb, and Air/Oil cooled....did I miss something?
No you didn't miss anything... the 06 has the old SACS engine with carbs...the 07 is water cooled with injection. Other than that the 06 and 07 are pretty much the same (but the 06 is MUCH lighter)
-
The new 2007 Bandit was sold in Canada & Europe as a 2006 model with the sachs air cooled engine.
I thought that, but Bazza said it was sold as the 2006....just checking...
-
"Asphalt" said:
"Bazza" said:
The new 2007 Bandit was sold in Canada & Europe as a 2006 model with the sachs air cooled engine.
I thought that, but Bazza said it was sold as the 2006....just checking...
What Bazza means is the 2006 & 2007 are the same except for the engine and larger frame tubes. The '06 model uses the same familiar SACS air-oil cooled motor as previous B12's. The '07 gets the new water-cooled lump and thicker frame tubes, but is otherwise the same as the '06.
So if the '06 is the 3rd generation, does the addition of a new motor and thicker frame tubes in '07 make it a 4th generation, or is it more like a 3.5?
-
3.5 I suspect, but hey, I have seen stranger than that. Mill Specs and mods go to the 100ths on the mods and Gens of the equiptment. If they would just keep to "Upgraded and Improved" Model, then it would be just as good.
-
Here is the Canadian Suzuki website selling the new 1250
http://moto.suzuki.ca/Products/Default.aspx?ModelCategoryId=ModelCategory_Street&ModelID=Model_BanditGSF1200S&TrimLevelID=&culture=en-CA&province=ON
-
WOW!!! Welcome Alexanderr. Another Albertan....what are the odds?? LOL. We could have an Alberta chapter of Bandits Anonymous...or something. But, strangely, I'm only one of two Cowtown guys on here (apparently) and the rest of you guys are up north, including my buddy Bruce in Leduc. Hmmmm....your dealers must be doing a better job selling Bandits than the wankers down here are.....
Or maybe there are fewer smart guys in Cowtown ??
Or more "traditionalists" up north ?? :grin:
-
Hi Rick
Don't own a Bandit yet. At the moment I am trying to decide between a WeeStrom or the B12. Prices are starting to come down on both bikes(2006), with one dealer selling a 2006 B12 w/ ABS demo for 8200(First maintenance done). I am waiting for the price to come down even more.
-
Well those are two very different bikes. If you are considering a WeeStrom you may also want to look at the Kawi Versys as it is designed for much the same purpose as the Wee. Of course I think you should get the B12 but my opinion may be slightly biased :wink:
-
"Asphalt" said:
"Bazza" said:
The new 2007 Bandit was sold in Canada & Europe as a 2006 model with the sachs air cooled engine.
I thought that, but Bazza said it was sold as the 2006....just checking...
What Bazza means is the 2006 & 2007 are the same except for the engine and larger frame tubes. The '06 model uses the same familiar SACS air-oil cooled motor as previous B12's. The '07 gets the new water-cooled lump and thicker frame tubes, but is otherwise the same as the '06.
So if the '06 is the 3rd generation, does the addition of a new motor and thicker frame tubes in '07 make it a 4th generation, or is it more like a 3.5?
Don't forget the 6-speed trans on the '07.
IMHO, if anything the '06 was a 'tweener, maybe a 2.5 Gen? It was only produced 1 year, not sold in the U.S., mostly cosmetic changes (new fairing, gauges, etc.), 1 "Functional" addition (ABS), but the same engine & trans as before. One year of production, with minor changes, limited distribution, does not qualify the '06 as a "New" generation. But the '07 is definitely a "new" generation (3rd Gen?)
-
Just because they weren't released in the US does not mean they are a limited release, it only means that Suzuki US didn't want to bring them in...
-
The Versys looks to be an interesting bike. I understand that there will one at the bike show in Jan I will definitely have to check it out.
-
I'd like a water cooled, fuel injected, counter-balanced, six speed engine...but it's been stated above that it weighs 30 lbs. more than its predecessor! According to Suzuki's website, the new 1250 (non ABS) weighs 496 dry. How much does our existing 1200S weigh?
-
How much does our existing 1200S weigh?
2005 Bandit 1200/S dry weight 487 lbs.
-
2006 B12S 474lbs
-
Alexanderr:
Well, the Water Buffalo King, a buddy of mine for 35+ years, owned a '99 B12S and now owns a 1000 'Strom. According to him, the only flaws the Bandit had was
a)"it needed a 6 speed" and
b)"seating position was killing his back after 2 or 3 hours". I've found out that for me at least:
a) the tranny is a non-issue. That engine was meant to run best in the 6K-8K RPM range....and it does. The 4500-5500RPM "buzz zone" can avoided quite easily, if you want to. So, no probs....
b) the WBK has had back problems for years, as have I. All a guy needs to do is some stretching exercises every time you gas up. So, no probs.....
The big "plus", supposedly, of the 'Strom is the torque.....
but that's a non-issue for me since I'm not afraid to row on the gearbox lever a little from time to time. Heck, I told the WBK that he's getting lazy in his old age and if he wanted a cruiser, he should have bought the M109 Boulevard.
So, all in all, the B12 does it for me....and besides, we all know that REAL bikes have air cooled inline 4 cylinder across the frame engines with carburators.......right??
:grin: :grin: :grin:
IMO, go for the Bandit....but bin the ABS....it's heavier, costs more and has more stuff to go wrong. I've always been leery of computers making braking decisions for me.
Such "decisions" are based on some computer programmer's algorithm burned into a chip and that algorithm can not possibly cover the infinite variations that the average rider encounters while braking.
If I have an accident due to poor braking technique, I can be sure it's my fault alone and not the fault of a computer.....
and don't get me started about glitches the computer may have as it ages...... :shock:
End of rant
-
Thanks Rick for the comparison between the two Bikes. Each Bike has its own special charms, but I will admit though, that the B12 is a Wee bit better lookin then the Strom :wink:
-
Not quite in Cow town, just a bit west though.
The thing that interested me was going to the six speed on the 07 and I really hung on, thinking it over before going for the 06. I have ridden both 5 and 6 speeds and the engine does run smoother with the additional gear. It should also get better mileage. Which could be offset by the fuel injection.
It was the weight difference that made up my mind. The 06 is heavy enough as is, and still has all the power I'm looking for. So, as I'm not the biggest of guys, I opted for the slightly lighter bike.
I am also interested in the list price. Suggested list was 11,499 for the 06 at this time last year. I was told that the 07 would be 11, 299 a couple of months ago, and now it shows up priced at 10,500
I am guessing it is the change in the dollar more than anything else that is causing the difference.
-
Not quite in Cow town, just a bit west though.
C'mon, greyhound, Cochrane is a suburb of Cowtown, isn't it ?? :grin:
If that C$10,500 price holds up then it's a whizzer of a deal considering you're getting an all new engine, fuel injection, etc etc. At that price Suzuki should sell quite a few, even if they are water cooled. :wink:
See you on the road one of these days maybe.....
-
Tried one on for size at the International Motorcycle show in Long Beach but all I could do was make motorcycle noises! Wish I could have ridden it! Like the ergos the saddle position and pegs seem to be much better or, that could just be me!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/02-trex/LongBeach009.jpg)
-
I sat on the new b12 at the motorcycle show as well. Looks like a nice bike. It's a lot heavier then my little b4!
-
Over here in the Uk the new 1250 is out. It is not the Busa engine it is a water cooled, fuel injected lump. Same bike apart from that. I ride a 06' and that has ABS, needed in this crappy weather, very good indeed. It has gained a bit of wieght but in performance it doesnt seem alot different, does have 6speed gearbox which helps. Plus its a bit more expensive, darn it.
-
Well, I'm ordering a black '07 1250 next month.
I just sold my WeeStrom DL650. I loved that bike, I would have kept it if the ol' lady had learned to ride, but she won't! So I want a big-bore for 2-up riding and touring occasionally.
The main things that swayed me towards the '07 is the fuel injection and the liquid cooling.
I've had many 4-in-line muscle bikes in the past, my favorite of all was a GPZ1100 with FI. The new Bandit is the closet thing to it now made. That fuel injection is such a huge improvement over carbs! No choke, no constant adjusting, instant throttle response and smooth power...
And the liquid cooling gives it a much longer engine life, it makes the few extra pounds well worth it.
Just my 2 cents... :wink:
-
Alexanderr:
Well, the Water Buffalo King, a buddy of mine for 35+ years, owned a '99 B12S and now owns a 1000 'Strom. According to him, the only flaws the Bandit had was
a)"it needed a 6 speed" and
b)"seating position was killing his back after 2 or 3 hours". I've found out that for me at least:
a) the tranny is a non-issue. That engine was meant to run best in the 6K-8K RPM range....and it does. The 4500-5500RPM "buzz zone" can avoided quite easily, if you want to. So, no probs....
b) the WBK has had back problems for years, as have I. All a guy needs to do is some stretching exercises every time you gas up. So, no probs.....
The big "plus", supposedly, of the 'Strom is the torque.....
but that's a non-issue for me since I'm not afraid to row on the gearbox lever a little from time to time. Heck, I told the WBK that he's getting lazy in his old age and if he wanted a cruiser, he should have bought the M109 Boulevard.
So, all in all, the B12 does it for me....and besides, we all know that REAL bikes have air cooled inline 4 cylinder across the frame engines with carburators.......right??
:grin: :grin: :grin:
IMO, go for the Bandit....but bin the ABS....it's heavier, costs more and has more stuff to go wrong. I've always been leery of computers making braking decisions for me.
Such "decisions" are based on some computer programmer's algorithm burned into a chip and that algorithm can not possibly cover the infinite variations that the average rider encounters while braking.
If I have an accident due to poor braking technique, I can be sure it's my fault alone and not the fault of a computer.....
and don't get me started about glitches the computer may have as it ages...... :shock:
End of rant
[/color]
Actually guys, one of the British bike mags did a test on ABS vs non ABS and it was a very interesting read.
They took one of the top GP racers (name escapes me) and put him on several ABS/non ABS versions of the same bikes. Only after a lot of practise could the racer stop better on dry pavement with non ABS he could not on wet pavement.
They did the same test with the magazines staff (who by the way are a few ex racers). All considered themselves above average riders. We none of them could stop faster on a non ABS bike compared to an ABS bike. The results were more impressive in emergency & wet situations.
The consensus of the test was that ABS brakes will indeed save your arse compared to standard brakes. This was especially true in wet & emergency stopping situations.
-
And just as easy, abs can put your arse in a sling.
Personally, if you need abs to ride safe, in the wet don't ride, yes shyte happens, but just as equally shyte happens with abs. I know, had shyte happen and it near put me into a swollen icey river, non abs brakes in my near miss, would not have been an issue. Taking away the ablity to lock one brakes under certain condition and circumstances, is just as dangerous as preventing lock up under another.
Bandit. hmm simple inline four easy to maintain, cheap good transport, hmmmm that theory going out the window. want abs buy BMW. :roll:
-
That's true to a point. Because of the very light weight of a bike compared to an auto, motorcycle ABS is pretty worthless on ice or certain near-zero-traction situations. My experience was on wet grass. The ABS kicked in and would activate the brakes, find nearly zero traction, then release, and repeat the cycle (without success) until it could find a surface with more traction. I was going about 25mph and with the ABS brakes on, I coasted another 75 yards! It was not a dangerous situation so I just rode it out to to test how the ABS would work. However, if I ever find myself going over a steep embankment of wet grass, I will now know that the proper action is to bail off; the brakes will not do a thing for me!
I am still a proponent of ABS brakes, now that I know their limitations. :motorsmile:
-
This year I had a "advanced riding" training-session and there were some ABS bandits at hand.
For some braking, there was a test setup on dry smooth tarmac and a piece with uneven, but also dry tarmac. (your typical repair stuff and a small step up/down of about 3 mm)
First tried it with my own (1st Gen 1200) about 6 times.
(On two of them I made great stoppies. :roll: )
The shortest brake distance (#4) was marked.
Then with the bandit with ABS.
First try ever on an ABS bike:..... 30% less distance to stop.
Just squeezed as hard as I could. The rest of the attempts were about the same distance. (And on one of them the rear came up again.. :roll: )
Then some tests on the uneven surface and I could actually feel the front wheel stop and start turning again rapidly. A couple of short black lines showed where the ABS had been struggling. But I felt (and was) absolutely in control.
My conclusion: ABS will not help you on Ice or on Wet grass. But I have not done that a lot in my 20 motorcycle-years, so who cares? But even on a dry road ABS made me stop about 30% quicker.
Which means that, when driving 50mph , instead of hitting the side of the car/truck/bike with at least 20 mph, I can tell the driver what I think of him/her by shouting through the side window. :lol:
(ABS: Aggresive Biker Shouting?)
-
First try ever on an ABS bike:..... 30% less distance to stop.
Just to be the devil's advocate, you were comparing an 06 Bandit to your 1G Bandit. Now if the comparison was between a non-ABS 06 and the ABS 06 that would be more fair...you would still have to take into account brake wear, tire wear, rubber compound yadda yadda...I'm not doubting that ABS will allow shorter stopping distances but the results could be closer if comparing two 06 Bandits...for me it came down to color, ABS wasn't available on the red Bandits :lol: :wink:
-
@dreanought.
You are obviously right, however....
My 1G has (amongst many more..)braided lines, carbone lorraine pads, WP front suspension and really sticky front tyre... De new 650 was without all that. Doesn't make it apple vs. apple, but pretty close I think.
I also rode a GSR without ABS that day and that also stopped later, even later then my 1G. But thats really apples and unions... Because my 1G has 1 very strong point in favour: > 20.000km experience with me on track and road. :wink:
Seriously, the "first time" part and the control I kept at the uneven surface made me a beleiver.
But you are right, so you leave me no choice .....next year I will have to test the 1250ABS and without ABS. I'l give the guys at Suzuki a call... :bigok:
-
Yes it is redesigned.. New water cooler, new hydraulic clutch, 6 speed transmission, the option of ABS, and a new 1255 cc motor. There is a road test in the new cycle world magazine with the FZ1 and the 1250s Bandit. The Bandit favored very well and as you said above, against a much more modern bike. The Bandit is a hit and there's not any way to take that away from it. As some one in this forum said; ride it and you will want it. It is also a little less expensive than the FZ1. I rode both before I bought mine and the Bandit was clearly more of what I was looking for in a bike. I personnally think that it is a more capabale bike for road riding and touring, which I do a lot of both...Banditone1250s...
And oh yeah, I almost forgot... The dealer told me that I could use the Buzza cams some time later on if I really wanted to add the the "scoot" power"
-
Bandit. hmm simple inline four easy to maintain, cheap good transport, hmmmm that theory going out the window. want abs buy BMW. :roll:
Ah Mick, yer just set in yer ways. ya grumpy old codger! :lol:
Just farkin' with ya, mate. My new B1250 is without ABS... but I still think it's a good thing. :wink:
-
Yes it is redesigned.. New water cooler, new hydraulic clutch, 6 speed transmission, the option of ABS, and a new 1255 cc motor. There is a road test in the new cycle world magazine with the FZ1 and the 1250s Bandit. The Bandit favored very well and as you said above, against a much more modern bike. The Bandit is a hit and there's not any way to take that away from it. As some one in this forum said; ride it and you will want it. It is also a little less expensive than the FZ1. I rode both before I bought mine and the Bandit was clearly more of what I was looking for in a bike. I personnally think that it is a more capabale bike for road riding and touring, which I do a lot of both...Banditone1250s...
And oh yeah, I almost forgot... The dealer told me that I could use the Buzza cams some time later on if I really wanted to add the the "scoot" power"
Hey banditone1250s, why are you digging out these old posts that died some 6 months ago - we've moved on since then. :wink:
-
Hey, it's new to him, he's probably surfing all the "old" threads about the B1250... he's just excited about his new bike. :motorsmile:
-
YEp that was my thinking too Zen...but I don't mind as I didn't go digging that far when I got here a few weeks ago.
I found the wet grass thing interesting...I got the non ABS model too- but I have wondered about it. Oh well- I may regret it one day- but the hope is to stay out of that situation to begin with. So far - even in the rain I have yet to lock up a tire.
-
want abs buy BMW. :roll:
Hmmm... not the best example of which company I'd rely on for ABS. Seems BMW hasn't gotten ABS "right" until just recently.
Makes me wonder if some new bug will show up in this version. :stickpoke:
-
I got my 1250/ABS June 6. (number 330) I wanted the ABS as it "might" save my withered butt in a pinch. Won't try it out until I brake in the pads in the next few hundred miles...along with the engine.
I ride with a group of long time (read old) riders. Most have GW or other touring bikes. Some have ABS on their GW's and swear by it, as it has helped them in an emergency situations. One friend has ABS on his GW and said it saved him two or three times. He rides everywhere, 35-40K a year, on his business. I have not seen him in a car in three years. He swears by it. It was $500 retail, so I figured if it helped me once, it would be worth it.
In our group, the argument comes up about ABS vs. non ABS once in a while. It is like the oil isssue...it will never be solved. Each to his own. :grin:
-
There are those that swear that seat restraints and air bags in cars cause more problems and there are those alive to tell the tale who wouldn't be otherwise. In the dry, it's amazing how hard you can apply the brakes on a bike before locking the front wheel but in the wet or on a loose surface when a car unexpectedly pulls out in front of you, it might just save your neck.
ABS won't work in all situations but the situations where it can work to your advantage outweights the others by far. For me, going back to a non-ABS bike is like swapping out a 100W headlight buld for a 55W version or replacing a double disc front brake with a single disc as bikes used to have when disc brakes first became available on those spoked wheels. That's just my personal preference - others will have different views and I respect that.
-
Then some tests on the uneven surface and I could actually feel the front wheel stop and start turning again rapidly. A couple of short black lines showed where the ABS had been struggling. But I felt (and was) absolutely in control.
That's not ABS 'struggling' - that's simply ABS doing it's job i.e. applying maximum braking effort (the black lines) and then releasing the brakes as traction breaks (the gaps between the black lines) and re-applying braking pressure once more (the next black line).