Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: drewpy_dawg on February 27, 2008, 12:49:59 PM
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I just sold my bandit, need to sell our other bike and one car, then going to buy another bike to replace all 3.
Requirements:
1. Good performance; both straightline and good cornering ability. (Bandit, obviously, was good here. Hyosung is, for a cruiser, good here except for aggressive right turns where I scrape really quickly)
2. Comfortable 2-up riding. Bandit, FJR1300 won't work, we've tried with mine and sat on a FJR yesterday. My wife has some "junk" that makes fitment an issue. Hyosung has a tiny pillion so it won't work.
3. Easily obtainable luggage. Bandit could do this, hyosung can't because it is a bastard stepchild of the motorcycling world. Bandit's luggage options were fairly limited too...I want hard sided, lockable storage as this is going to be my primary means of transport.
Bikes that I have considered seriously and we've tried on:
1. 03 Goldwing (shudder...I'm only 30!)
2. Valk Interstate (basically a goldwing but "cooler" in the eyes of other motorcyclists
3. Suzuki M109r (expensive and getting hard luggage is still fairly pricey but do-able. Back seat is questionable somewhat still)
4. Yamaha Stratoliner. (giant v-twin, air cooled. I am positive the hyosung could easily out run it or really any of these bikes).
5. Triumph Rocket III touring. (de-tuned for MORE torque and less hp, questionable electrics (lucas still lives at the heart of all british made vehicles), some questionable engine issues, expensive, insurance possibly higher due to massive engine, dealer I was planning on using just went out of business, etc. BUT its the only bike so far that has the OOMPH I am looking for.
I know everyone here are bandit riders. Some day when we can afford a second bike, the bandit will be at the top of the list as I loved mine and already miss it. I"m just looking for insight from this community. Maybe you've ridden these, know people that have, etc and can offer advice I can't find elsewhere on the 'net.
TIA (thanks in advance)
Drew
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Hyosung? (SHUDDER!)
I'm not a fan of knock off bikes. They really ripped off alot from Suzuki bikes. I wouldn't feel safe riding anything with their "reverse engineering". AKA, make it the same except with cheaper materials and quality.
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umm...the parent company IS Suzuki. They aren't reverse engineered...they ARE engineered by Suzuki. The engine in the avitar is 90% the same as the SV-650 with better bushings on the cam's, different cams for more torque,etc.
The throttle/starter/etc unit is identical down to the punch out on my old bandit (and hazard lights on the hyosung) as the hyosung. This company makes alot of the parts on Suzuki's anyway.
Each is own though but its been just as great of a bike as the Bandit but its harder to sell because of thought patterns calling it a knock off like yours.
Technically, we are ALL riding inferior bikes because they aren't harleys! (according to some...)
Your attitude is no different than theirs...
Drew
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I pretty much agree with drewpy, except Suzuki isn't exactly the parent of Hyosung, but they are a major shareholder, so there's certainly a relationship there. Hyosung has been a Suzuki supplier and/or builder under license for a long time (since 1978) and has been building whole bikes & quads for Suzuki since its inception. Most of the small Suzuki scooters, motorcycles & quads are built by Hyosung. If I'm to believe what I've read in the enthusiast press, Hyosung did the engineering and building for the SV650's engine, so the engineering isn't reversed, it's theirs. The SV650 & GT650 engines are a little different from each other as you can see from just looking at them as well as the 645cc displacement of the Suzuki version vs the 647cc displacement of the 3 Hyosung versions, two of which make more power than the SV version.
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What about a V-Strom 1000 or a Triumph Sprint ST? If it's within budget, a Moto-Guzzi Norge looks like a nice sport-tourer, and of course there's always BMW.
It begs the question, tho, why d'ya sell the Bandit? That would've made a good tourer with some simple mods. Throw some risers on it to get more upright, change the seat to a Sargent or something like that or use Air Hawks front and rear, throw some luggage on it, get a decent windshield, and you're pretty much done.
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Hey droopy
Sorry to hear the Bandit didn't quite fit the bill. Looking at your list, you may want to consider the Honda ST 1300. Not as fast and nimble as some, but from the people I talk to who own one, generally great for 2 up, good hard bags, fast enough, carries it's weight well, etc.
More sporty than a Gold Wing, not as sporty as an FJR or C14...
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I agree with pmackie, the first thought I had reading your post was ST1300, certainly a capable bike.
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My belief is that if you need to carry a passenger in comfort, and some gear, you have to go with a touring bike. You said even a sport tourer, like a FJR or ST, won't work.
I actually went through that scenario as well. My wife and I are in our 50s. I wanted a bike she could be comfy on and wanted to carry stuff. I also wanted something that would be easy to carry in my RV. Wellll..........I found out like you, that a sports tourer really won't fill the bill. They are fine to go cross country, one-up, but no good for a passenger.
OK. So that means a full touring bike: GoldWing, Yammie Venture, Harley Tourer (Glide family), Beemer LT, Victory Vision. Big Bucks, heavy bikes, not the best to haul in my RV. But the wife would be comfy.
Then, I found another approach. What about a Honda Pacific Coast? They've been out of production for years & still aren't real cheap but they are light. I am not sure the wife would still be comfy because I wasn't able to find one.
But.....I finally found something. Moto Guzzi California EV V11. This one is comfy for the Mrs (wow #1). It isn't very heavy (200-300 less than a big tourer) (wow #2). They don't cost a lot used ($5k - $8k) (wow #3). They appear to be fairly reliable (crossing my fingers, but you can find these bikes running 100k miles) (wow #4). I bought one. They ride really great. They handle great, much better than any Harley Glide, in fact you might keep up with a Bandit at 75% and BETTER handling at slow sped & parking lots (wow #5)- hey, it's a cop bike (not a cruiser).
I am not making any recommendation. I just needed a second bike. It sounds similar to you. I really like it, I found a great deal on a Moto Guzzi, the people that own them are fanatics. the guy a I bought mine from has another one. here's the link for Dave's bike:
http://www.mgnoc.com/images/classifieds/fischman.jpg
http://www.mgnoc.com/classifieds.html
(the entire link)
too bad that one doesnt have the HB bags on it like mine but instead has cruiser bags.
good luck
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Hmm... I didn't know Hyosung was a big shareholder. Then according to my thought proccess, I'm riding a piece of crap :duh:. Next time I'll just open mouth and insert foot. :wink:
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My belief is that if you need to carry a passenger in comfort, and some gear, you have to go with a touring bike. You said even a sport tourer, like a FJR or ST, won't work.
Then, I found another approach. What about a Honda Pacific Coast? They've been out of production for years & still aren't real cheap but they are light. I am not sure the wife would still be comfy because I wasn't able to find one.
But.....I finally found something. Moto Guzzi California EV V11. This one is comfy for the Mrs (wow #1). It isn't very heavy (200-300 less than a big tourer) (wow #2). They don't cost a lot used ($5k - $8k) (wow #3). They appear to be fairly reliable (crossing my fingers, but you can find these bikes running 100k miles) (wow #4). I bought one. They ride really great. They handle great, much better than any Harley Glide, in fact you might keep up with a Bandit at 75% and BETTER handling at slow sped & parking lots (wow #5)- hey, it's a cop bike (not a cruiser).
Pacific Coast was a consideration but being a 800 cc v-twin based on the 750 shadow v-twin means about half the power I'd be happy with.
I will check out the Guzzi recc. The place where I bought my Hyosung sells Guzzi's (maybe could do a trade-in...).
Certainly can't hurt :)
Drewpy
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Oh, and I will be checking out an ST1300. The demo at the local honda shop was out being Demo'ed and that is the only one they have right now. FJR almost worked but the back of the grab handle cut into the wife's hieney.
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Oh, and I will be checking out an ST1300. The demo at the local honda shop was out being Demo'ed and that is the only one they have right now. FJR almost worked but the back of the grab handle cut into the wife's hieney.
good luck, I just couldn't get any sports tourer to work for the passenger. The backrest was a must. Most of the V11 have backrests & full luggage. New ones are pretty expensive, there are some good used ones. In fact, they sell for about the price of used Harley clone.
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Our budget, since we are getting rid of 2 bikes and a car is enough that at the top end, I could probably consider a Harley except for reliability. Then again, I'm considering a triumph too...heh
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Our budget, since we are getting rid of 2 bikes and a car is enough that at the top end, I could probably consider a Harley except for reliability. Then again, I'm considering a triumph too...heh
Then I'd recommend the Gold Wing with ABS. Awesome scooter. The new ones really handle. I couldn't keep up with one on the Bandit while while in the drenching rain in Smokey Mtns. That windshield keep them dry while my helmet was fogged and that ABS kept him humming.
I think in the full touring realm, for 2 up riding, that the GW is the true standard. It's the only Asian bike that has re-sale better than the Harley. Expect to spend $20k for a new one, depending n options.
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Our budget is "under 20k" for sure.
That, and I'm only 30...I'm not sure I'm ready for a gold wing...ya know?
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I had a chance to follow an ST1300 around the cabot trail (a most motorcycle worthy road) while I was on a bike that didn't agree with the way I like to ride (700 Madura) he had a blast. I decided then that once the time comes (inevitably it will) I will get the ST or something like it over the goldwing. Mind you if your wife isn't comfortable on the ST then I'd say you should try a goldwing.
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A couple Valk Interstates have appeared in the area with lowish miles. I know my wife will be happy on that and I am fairly sure I will be too. I've actually ridden one of these and my wife has been on the back of the same bike.
I did test drive a 08 Road Glide. Rattled like crazy at idle but was actually nice at speed (6 speed and cruise control are good). WAY over-priced though, honestly...If I could get the fairing, radio and hard bags of the HD on the Stratoliner, it would undercut the HD by thousands and would have more power...
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If you're serious about considering a Valky Interstate, then why not a 1800 Goldwing? The current gen GW is a good handling bike and from all accounts, be a better backroad burner than the 1500 Valky.
There used to be a member here from GA that had a 1800 Wing, a B12 and a GSXR1K in his stable. One of his favorite passtimes was to take the Wing with his wife on it and ride Tail of the Dragon, passing as many sportbikes as he could - which was usually quite a few. (It helps to be a talented track rider.)
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Goldwings are tanks. I rode my friend's GW and the scariest part is STOPPING. It just kept going on and on. It went so much further down the road before stopping then I cared for. I'd hate to think what would've happened if I locked that sucker up, yeouch!
Needless to say, I'm not a fan of big, heavy bikes like Harleys and GWs. What's the point in riding something not that much lighter than a car? The GW felt like I was driving a car, no less. It barely felt like a bike. The ST1300 isn't much of prize either. For a sport-tourer, that thing is a total tank. If you do decide on getting any one of these tanks (Harley, GW, ST, etc.), make sure you get ABS.
I hope to find a nice SV-1000 (not "S") someday and turn that into a sport-tourer (fortunately I don't have "pillion problems" :grin: ). That should make for a nice, lightweight tourer that'll still have plenty of spunk. Put some risers on it, a National Cycle Plexistar II windshield, throw my bags and Air Hawk on it, and I'll ride that sucker off into the sunset...
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2 reasons for me to try to avoid a goldwing...one being the stopping issue. The other being that I feel like I'm too young to go that route...
but its seeming that is the route I should go...
At least the HD has brembo brakes on it now...that should count for something, right?
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2 reasons for me to try to avoid a goldwing...one being the stopping issue. The other being that I feel like I'm too young to go that route...
but its seeming that is the route I should go...
At least the HD has brembo brakes on it now...that should count for something, right?
no way. The ABS GW will spank ANY full touring rig, comfort, features, handling or braking. It's the ONLY full tourer with radial tires. If you can afford one, the 1800 is without peers. I chased one on the Bandit all over Deal's Gap in the rain. There's no big rig that compares.
I was looking at the Guzzi because it was lighter & more unique- lots cheaper deal. I love it, but I have 2 bikes, an RV, 4 cars & 3/4 ton pick up.
Bottom line, the Sports Touring bikes (FJR, ST, etc) are great for cross country 1-up, but not the deal for a passenger. The Beemer LT is 2nd place. The other Beemers, Rocket 3 & Harleys won't do it. The Vision doesn't have any real luggage space, I don't know how it performs. It's that simple.
The Valkyrie is the old GW, the NEW GW is just much sportier.
That's the bottom line. Good luck finding what you are after.
No more comments from me.
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2 reasons for me to try to avoid a goldwing...one being the stopping issue. The other being that I feel like I'm too young to go that route...
but its seeming that is the route I should go...
At least the HD has brembo brakes on it now...that should count for something, right?
no way. The ABS GW will spank ANY full touring rig, comfort, features, handling or braking. It's the ONLY full tourer with radial tires. If you can afford one, the 1800 is without peers. I chased one on the Bandit all over Deal's Gap in the rain. There's no big rig that compares.
I was looking at the Guzzi because it was lighter & more unique- lots cheaper deal. I love it, but I have 2 bikes, an RV, 4 cars & 3/4 ton pick up.
Bottom line, the Sports Touring bikes (FJR, ST, etc) are great for cross country 1-up, but not the deal for a passenger. The Beemer LT is 2nd place. The other Beemers, Rocket 3 & Harleys won't do it. The Vision doesn't have any real luggage space, I don't know how it performs. It's that simple.
The Valkyrie is the old GW, the NEW GW is just much sportier.
That's the bottom line. Good luck finding what you are after.
No more comments from me.
Yeah I'm not feelin' this anti-GL stuff either. I've had a GL1800 in the stable for a few years and its brakes are as good as any bike I've had in the last 5 years (FZ1, 919, 1250SA). Enough torque to pull tree stumps. Enough comfort to make the wife happy (and, trust me, this is a feat unto itself). And power and stopping power to make even the most discerning rider happy. For 1000 mile days and 2-up touring, the GL1800 has no competition.
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Would you commute on it?
This is why I'm asking. I really deep down know that a GW is the right bike but keep wondering if it is because of things like brakes vs. weight, weight in city traffic, etc...
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Would you commute on it?
This is why I'm asking. I really deep down know that a GW is the right bike but keep wondering if it is because of things like brakes vs. weight, weight in city traffic, etc...
The Wing wouldn't be my bike of choice for commuting. But commuting is a small percentage of the miles I ride in any given year (8 miles each way to work).
If I was to own just one bike for commuting, touring, carving, etc. it would be the Bandit 1250.
That said, if I had to commute on the Wing, it would certainly be do-able.
In the end, riding to and from work puts a smile on my face and that's what counts the most.
Second hand accounts about GL braking myths wouldn't stop me from test driving everything I was interested in and making a purchasing decision from there.
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I fully intend (mostly due to members here) to run the demo GL through its paces soon. The honda shop is very liberal with demo use (to quote: "bring it back in 2 hours) and there are a couple roads near by with a few curves that will give me a good gauge of the bike.
Downside is I have to get Navi to get ABS, apparantly. Should be standard on a bike like that or at least an option on any in the line.
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Honda's linked brake system works very well. I wouldn't feel compelled to get ABS, especially if I had to fork over an $3500 for nav, airbag, etc. And I really don't like what they did with the console control layout in order to accommodate the airbag. Not cool. I wouldn't be surprised if the airbag disappears from the Wing. Another thing to keep in mind -- the GL is due for an update. It's very likely that it will be launched as a GL2000. This will affect pricing on leftover 1800's.
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It will have to be an 09 (or 08.5?) at this point as the 2008's are already out.
There are a couple on ebay from dealers in "cold" states for significantly less than MSRP. I will see what my local dealer will do. I have a free flight on Soutwest sitting there that I can so flying to Kansas or ohio won't add anything to the cost of the bike...
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+1 on the goldwing.
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Our budget, since we are getting rid of 2 bikes and a car is enough that at the top end, I could probably consider a Harley except for reliability. Then again, I'm considering a triumph too...heh
Then I'd recommend the Gold Wing with ABS. Awesome scooter. The new ones really handle. I couldn't keep up with one on the Bandit while while in the drenching rain in Smokey Mtns. That windshield keep them dry while my helmet was fogged and that ABS kept him humming.
I think in the full touring realm, for 2 up riding, that the GW is the true standard. It's the only Asian bike that has re-sale better than the Harley. Expect to spend $20k for a new one, depending n options.
This was my afterthought. I had a great sport tourer (connie 1000) felt like it was older than I was Sold the bike and bought a sportier bike. Wish i had kept the budget touring bike and then just picked up and SV or the like for my daily solo bike. Still considering the wing at 35 years old, but will have to keep a sport steed in the barn for me.
I also wanted to add, I would avoid BMW like the plague. They still havent owned up to the final drive failures that are having and many of their long distance riders that have been dedicated BMW owners are moving to other manufacturers becasue they are tired of replacing final drives every 6 months. When the final drives go they puke gear oil on the rear tire. Its a bad scene. They make awesome bikes, But they really need to fix this ongoing final drive issue.
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I'm trying to convince the wife that the gold wing replaces one bike and the car and that the hyosung can stay. Make that the bike for in town cruising and debauchery. (There is a shop nearby that specializes in SV-650's...could probably get them to apply that knowledge to the Avitar...its too much fun drag racing harley's without really trying. Would be nice to keep up with a v-rod...)
We'll see...gonna ride one tomorrow.
Thanks all...seriously...this thread has helped alot. (more than the similar thread I posted on a v-max group I'm on...)
Drew
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Drewpy... just outta curiousity... how much (% wise) does your wife ride with you?
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She has ridden exactly one time, on the back of "her" bike, the Hyosung. She has her class M, has ridden enough to be comfortable on city streets on her own but preferred riding 2-up as opposed to riding separate bikes together (which is why we got her a bike in the first place).
She loved the ride, hated the pillion on the bike. Sat on the back of my friend's Valk for a portion of the trip and really loved that. In reality, it will be a few months before she will be on the back of a bike again (new addition a month ago that is all but permanently attached to those bouncing things you have in your posts) but once the baby is a bit older and the freezer stash of the good stuff is stored up, we'll likely be out and about on a weekly basis. Grandparents are suckers for the kiddo's.
Weekend trips are conceivable about once a month...
Drewpy
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If the GOLDWING is too big...get a NEW Kawasaki CONCOURSE 1400, Power galore and big, but not as big as the GW. Has LARGE Hard bags and all.
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I road a wing yesterday. it is a big bike but honestly felt lighter than its weight. (Unlike the Harley that never let you forget).
I was impressed. Working on selling a couple things then I'm probably gonna go ahead and get one.
I will check out the Concours though. It looked a bit more roomy than the FJ1300 and is miles ahead of the ST1100...which I feel needs a re-freshening.
Drew
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>>It looked a bit more roomy than the FJ1300 and is miles ahead of the ST1100...which I feel needs a re-freshening.<<
And a DIET! :grin: For a sport-tourer, that thing is obnoxiously heavy. Although probably no lighter (if not heavier) Honda has threaten for years now to replace either the GW or the ST with this:
(http://www.motorcycledaily.com/Xwing_lr.jpg)
This picture dates back to 1999 now, so this is getting long in the tooth. Even now, however, the thing still looks great. I think Honda's been a bit too conservative about getting this thing on the road. Had they released it back then, it would've blown the sport-touring market apart, big time. Chances are they were afraid of killing GW sales with this, which it probably would've done so on a heartbeat. I guess Honda wants to milk it's cashcow GW production line as long as it can.
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+1 on that.
I've read that the Valk. Interstate was axed to up gold wing sales...then the rest of the Valk line was cut "due to slow sales" probably of their VTX v-twin line...
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Honda HAS "refreshed" it....it's the ST1300 now!
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I'm getting my numbers confused. I meant ST1300. It just doesn't seem up to par with the other sport tourers. (nevermind the fact that its almost as heavy as a goldwing...that electric windshield must be the culprit because the GL doesn't have one...)
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FWIW. I ride with an ST1300 quite a bit and he has no problem keeping up with the Bandit. He loves the ST and sold me the Bandit after he got the ST. He is a big guy at 6'2" and 300 lbs so that may make a difference.
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Just get a GSX1300R 1G with beetles and be done with it! :bigok:
(http://www.extremebusa.com/extreme/attachment.php?attachmentid=12551&stc=1&d=1204400156)
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2-up is dubious for both...
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If the GOLDWING is too big...get a NEW Kawasaki CONCOURSE 1400, Power galore and big, but not as big as the GW. Has LARGE Hard bags and all.
That would be my choice, my wife said the Bandit was too uncomfortable (1st gen. set up for the track) so I just put on a Corbin Gunfighter & Lady seat that I bought off a BA member. Brought the rear ride hight back to stock,and had the WP shock rebuilt. Along with other general maintanence stuff. She hasn't had a chance to try it out yet, winter just doesn't want to go away. But if she still isn't happy, she might just have to get her own bike. And she won't even try riding on the SV!
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I'd say check out the ST1300 and the new Kawasaki Concours. Also, there is a SLEW of different BMW tourers out there from different years...I'm sure one of those would fit your needs (older K model, R model maybe...).
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Checked out a 2006 k1200lt yesterday. By far the nicest balance of what I am looking for so far. Guy wanted 22k for it though. Yes, it had every doo-dad you could put on it but OUch. VERY well balanced bike, good pickup but being an inline 4 not torquey down low. Eager to turn. I'm glad I'm 6'2" tall though...its a tall bike.
Rear ends blowing up is apparently a thing of the past....stopped around 2003 or so.
Dunno...alot of coin...still thinking a 10k valk interstate means I can go buy a sport bike with the other 10 >:)