Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: Red01 on April 16, 2005, 08:04:43 PM
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If you have a chain oiler, please vote in this poll and respond with your positive and/or negative experiences with the setup.
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For the curious, here's the links to the various systems in the poll list:
CLS200 http://www.cls200.de/index_e.htm
Hawkeoiler http://www.cls200.de/index_e.htm
Loobman http://www.chainoiler.co.uk/
McCoi http://www.mccoi.de/ (Sorry, it seems to only be in German)
Mister Chain Lube http://misterchainlube.com/
MoTrax Lubetronic http://www.motrax.co.uk/Index_pages/maintenance/lubetronic.htm
Pro-Oiler http://www.pro-oiler.com/
Scottoiler http://www.scottoiler.com/
Here's a comparison (with a McCoi bias) between several of the above:
http://www.toadmotors.com/mccoi/oiler_comparison.htm
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I've had Scott Oilers on three bikes over the past several years with good results except for trying the dual feed attachment. It promptly clogged and I went back to the single sided applicator tube. It seems to keep BOTH sides of the chain coated with oil -- according to the maker that occurs by capillary action.
I regularly get 40K miles from a chain and sprocket set where I usually got about 30K using spray on chain oil.
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I don't use a chain lube tool or anything.
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After much research I recently installed a Pro-Oiler on my B-12 and must say I am very impressed so far with the job it's doing. The dual applicator nozzle & micro processor that controls oil flow from your speedometer signal mans a constant & very controlable flow to your chain. I am experiancing less fling off & mess than any spray lube I have used, and use regular motor oil.
This baby does all that the folks over at Pro-Oiler claim!
Look here to get a few picts of the installation.
http://publish.shaw.ca/zukeman/Pro-Oiler.htm
Bazza
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I have just ordered and payed fior a Scottoiler for my B12.
I went for the touring model because I do a lot of distance riding to work and with the Ulysses Club.
Last week, talking to a mechanic, he said that the touring model sometimes has problems feeding from the large reservoir to the small one, so keep an eye on it.
Any comments or observations regarding this statement are very welcome
:thanks:
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OK, so far we have one vote for each of the following:
Hawkeoiler
Loobman
Pro-Oiler
Scottoiler
and Other
But we have comments from TWO Scottoiler owners and no comments from Hawkeoiler, Loobman and Other owners...
:wtf: let's help out our Bandit brothers and sisters. :beers:
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I helped install a touring sized Scott Oiler on a Suzuki Hayabusa and it worked well.
You need to "bleed" the system to assure that transfer from the large reservoir to the remote metering valve occurs -- any air bubbles often stop the flow. That said, it worked well, especially for a bike with no centerstand that is hard to apply spray chain oil easily.
The remote metering valve holds about 50cc or oil, the additional touring adapter holds another 350cc, extending the range from about 600-800 miles to about 4 times that.
It mounts behind the license plate and you may have to be inventive to route the tubing from there to the swing arm and chain. On the Hayabusa it was easy to hide in inside the rear enclosure -- it made a neat installation.
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Sorry about the sloppy math, I should have said about 8 times that.
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IHave just completed installation of the Hawkoiler a week ago and only ridden 300 mi since the installation. It seems to keep the chain lubed on both sides and I too find less mess on my rear wheel than with regular chain lube. Will keep track of things and advise my results as I have them.
Installation was pretty well straight forward and took around 2 hours. Most of that time was taken in planning where to put eveything. I plan on a lot of miles this year and it should be a good test.
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Thanks Ray,
I am having the Scottoiler installed tomorrow by the service guys who ar also dumping some Avon Azaro ST tyres on the bike at the same time.
The guys who is doing the job for me has a naked B12 1998 model and has a Scottoiler (touring) on his bike that he installed five years ago and hasn't had any hitches.
:thanks: . :beers:
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What do you get out of this? Looks to me like the McCoy is the real deal - but I can't tell what the hell thay are saying :monkeymoon: ! Both my german speaking kids are elsewhere on the planet at this time.
No matter how you figure, a fresh final drive set is at least $200.00. If one of these kits will double you final drive life, compensate for riding in bad weather, and not make too bad a mess of the rear end, I might be in. ROI will be within 12 - 15 k miles.
Any group buy discount possibilities for the Real McCoy or the Pro-oiler? I like the speedo & pump thing. I'm not going for lubing one side enough to slop over to the other (I don't do it by hand, I'll be damned if I'll pay the big bucks to have it done) and same for gravity feed.
Thoughts?
Steve
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I have a loobman in my tool box for 2 years .this thread reminds me to hook it up
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I put together my homemade oiler using an electric model airplane fuel pump,a solenoid valve to prevent gravity feed, a momentary toggle switch on the fairing, and a dual discharge automotive vacuum nozzle, fed from an 8 oz mod. airplane fuel tank. Fits under the seat; still room for tools. Total cost ~ $60. Works great.
Tom
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Some more r/c plane stuff to the rescue. :banana: :banana:
Got any pics of your set-up tom???? I would assume you run it off the M/C battery. Sounds like a fun mod.
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It does run off the M/C battery.
I'm not computer savvy, and my attempts to send pics have been frustratrating.
I have a page consisting of a bill of mtls., with 2 pics, that Andre of Max-Zuk set up for me,but when I fwd it to others they haven't been able to open the pics. If you'd like me to try, send me your email addy and we can give it a shot. At worst, you should be able to at least see the list of components, sources and prices.
I don't have the faintest idea how to send it to this board.
BTW, I'm currently fighting an acute back problem so I may need a couple of days before I can sit at the 'puter again.
Tom
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Just took a look at the loobman website. Thinking of getting one. Does any one have any thing good to say about them?? I like the idea od the double sided dispenser thingy oh and also the price! So please help guys.
Becky
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Went with the Loobman myself. Install went well last week, but need to put some mileage on this new chain and oiler before I can give any feedback.
I like the fact that it is simple and easy to install.
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Just got the LoobMan installed today... looks like it might work out well for the upcoming Arkansas trip. Pics upon request. :wink:
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Ummmm.........I gotta a can of chain wax !
Does that count ? :grin:
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I never lube my chain, it's too messy :stickpoke:
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I never lube my chain, it's too messy :stickpoke:
And I suppose O-ring chains are too expensive, too. :stickpoke: :grin:
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I had a Loobman installed. My review is posted here:
http://will.mylanders.com/mc/loobman/
under Dave Vaughn (sic)
But last season I pulled it off, and haven't missed it. It was just a pain to keep aligned. The "brushes" wore out, it got clogged with road slime and overspray, it would leak on my garage floor, etc. If I was still doing a whole lot of touring, it'd make sense, since hauling a can of spray around is a pain. But the newer "dry" sprays don't fling, and shooting the chain every other week seems to work pretty well. Besides, it gets me behind my bike and looking at things, like the misaligned axel adjusters. :duh:
Dave
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I too disconnected my Scott Oiler in favor of Dupont's Teflon lube -- started using it after a review on <www.mcnews.com>.
It doesn't fling off, keeps the chain clean and seems to last well -- I've been relubing the chain about every 400 - 500 miles.
I understand it's available at Lowe's Home Improvement centers, but mine comes from a local motorcycle shop. You don't need much and it dries almost instantly -- convenient while on a ride.
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i've got a scotoiler on my B12 took about 30 mins to fit
i also had one fitted to my 750f and my chain seemed to last forever on that bike.
best thing since sliced bread :bigok:
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Scottoiler here. I like it. Easy to set up, easy to adjust.
Been seeing some great reviews on the Dupont Teflon stuff though and I may give that a shot on my Aprilia or Katana.
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Been seeing some great reviews on the Dupont Teflon stuff though and I may give that a shot on my Aprilia or Katana.
Don't Do It (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=3916)
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Hi Team,
I'm opening up this thread again with a question on oils to use in the Scottoiler and other similar beasts.
I know this has been punched around befotre but I cant find the thread.
Last weekend I refilled the reservoir on my touring model Scottoiler for the first time since having it fitted. The bike has done 6500km since that day and the chain sag is nil.
I had to buy some more oil so went for the standard Scott oil 500ml refill which cost me $nz22.00.
I had a bit left in the old bottle so I transferred the residue into the new bottle after the refill. Strange, but the Scott oil looked like something I had seen before. I checked out my chainsaw lube oil and it looks remarkably similar in both colour and viscosity and only costs $nz16.49 for 1500ml. This oil is marketed by Husqvarna.
Question - what do you all think about using cahinsaw bar lube oil in a Scottoiler?/ :thanks:
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You've got a chainsaw, right? Go for it, and if for some reason it doesn't work out, you can still use it on the saw. I see no reason why it wouldn't work tho.
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I have been running 50 synthetic outboard gear oil in the Pro Oiler. According to the fellow that invented it, plain old motor oil is the best as it is known not to have any adverse effect on "O" rings. An yes, he even recomends chain saw bar oil.
The plus side of these things is they will leave your chain shiney & new. I have not had to clean mine since the installation of the pro-oiler. I have not had to adjust the chain in 11,000 km. I have streched the bottle to 1600 km until it needed re-filling, so if you do a lot of touring, they are excellent. No more stoping after a fill up to spray the chain.
The downside is fling off of the oil until you get things fine tuned. Mind you I had fling off with spray lubes also.
From what I can tell, the Pro Oiler will give you the most variable lube settings out of them all. The micro prosessor can be tweeked to infinity.
I have had the pro oiler on for 11,000 km and its been trouble free. Set them up & forget about things.
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Nothing wrong with using Summer Chain Bar Oil. It will usually be an ISO 150 or 220 Viscosity (similar to an SAE 50 auto oil or SAE 90 gear oil) with some takifier (stringiness additive to reduce fling off) and in some high quality Chain Bar oils, even some Antiwear and/or EP additives. It should not cause any problems with the O-Rings in the chain.
You can also use some SAE 80W90 gear oil (all GL5 rated oils will have EP additives) and add your own takifier, such as STP or Lucas style motor honey ( I would NOT use these additives in any of my engines however) and come up with a great chainlube.
However, buy a jug or two of the chain bar oil and use it in the oiler and the chainsaw.
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Anone find or have read about good results using ATF in the chain oiler?
I read some BMW techs use cheap red ATF on single650 bikes
and can get over 40k miles out of a chain with the auto-oiler.
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With ATF being about a 10 weight oil, it seems like it might be on the light side, but I've heard of people using striaght 30w - and that's probably cheaper than ATF
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I just got done installing the Pro-oiler on my 98 B12...
I am very happy with the results, fully automated means I can adjust for changing conditions. Being that its pumped, temperature changes and viscosity changes have no effect on the capablilities of the oiler. Lastly, just not having to ever mess with the chain is a big thing to me....
Highly reccomend it or some other automatic oiler to really simplify your life..
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Well it is now official, since the installation of the Pro-Oiler and new chain & sprokets I have gone 16,230 km or 10,085 miles unitl my first chain adjustment! I should add that I only adjusted about half of one of the marks. I could have went longer but I am planning a big trip next week.
I have had several comments about, "I see you just put on a new chain". I have not had to clean the chain since installation, and it looks like it just came out of the package. The constant drip washes off any dirt before it can build up.
I have finally got the Oiler set up to where I want it (I origionally had too high a seed factor programed in) On my last trip, I used about 250 cc (half the bottle) to ride 2300 km on the highway.
Best lube I have found is Chain bar oil (for chainsaws). I origionally had started with 90 w gear oil but find that this stains the frame near the sidestand (from run off) while the bar oil does not. I also mixed in a bottle of teflon engine treatment I had in my garage for ages, which seems to help with keeping the oil on the chain, but really not required.
I found out about the Pro Oiler from a few of the people on the sport touring network who are claiming 30,000 mile chain life. I was skeptical, but now I am a 100% believer. If in fact I can get 30,000 miles out of this chain, the pro oiler will have paid for itself. Sooner if you calculate the cost of chain lube I don't buy anymore. Let's just say that the 1st thing I buy for any future chain driven bikes is a pro oiler, although I can take this one with me for the next bike.
I have started to do a great deal of touring with the bandit, and if you do the same a pro oiler is the best investment you will make. Not so much if you are just going for short little jaunts around town.
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I have had my Hawkoiler installed for two Summers now and am quite happy with it. It quit on me once but that was due to the dunce who installed it javascript:emoticon(':bigok:'): . Now it works perfectly. I do have to remember to give it 8 to 10 pumps every 80 miles or so and more often when raining, but the chain also looks like new after 20,000 miles.
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Oh, I forgot. I have been using Mobil 1 75/90 full synthetic gear lube but may try the chain saw ol when this bottle runs out.
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If you have a chain oiler, please vote in this poll and respond with your positive and/or negative experiences with the setup.
Hello fellow Bandit riders. I use Zoom Spout All Purpose Oil. I originally picked it up for oiling the bearings on a swamp/evaporative cooler, because it comes with a telescoping pull-out spout. Great for getting into tight spaces. Put out by Dial MFG. Inc in Phoenix AZ. Part #5713. I also use Kerosine to clean the links, and lubricate the rubber O-rings on my chain. So far, I am very happy with this method. Hope this helps, Banditclimax
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I have been suing a Scottoiler on my 99 B12 since 2000. My original chain lasted 42000 miles. And needed just a couple of adjustments in that time. I also added one to my FZ1 as soon as I purchased the bike. :motorsmile: :motorsmile: :motorsmile:
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I discovered years ago, using Lithium based general purpose grease containing upwards of 40% Molly, a process to clean the chain, then slather it well with the grease, and after as much as 10,000 miles, the rollers were still well lubricated with the highly viscous and very slippery Molly lube. I use nothing else.
JReviere, Ph.D
Lake Livingston, Tx
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Lithium based general purpose grease containing upwards of 40% Molly
To have something like 40% Moly (Molybdenum Disulphide), you must be talking about some type of AntiSieze compound. Most moly greases use between 4-7% moly, which is what I think you mean. So something like a chassis grease c/w moly?
Concept is good, but how do you apply it? It can be pretty messy to apply grease to a chain. It may not easily lubricate the o-rings unless you can force it down the side plates, but it should keep the wear down on the sprockets.
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You are probably correct about the amount of Moly... Using an "O" Ring chain, which as I understand is internally lubricated during manufacture, negates the necessity of penetrating doesn't it?
I just use a flat paddle about 3/4" wide and slather it on the top of the bottom of the chain where as the wheel turns, the applied grease contacts the rear sproket. Another good tool would be the paint stir paddles paint departments such as Lowes hand out when you buy paint. Anyway, in front of the rear sprocket there's about 6 inches of chain exposed... By slathering the grease on the "inside" of the chain, as it runs on the sprockets, grease is shoved into the chain. At least that's what it appears to me to do.
When I'm done, I wipe off excess from the side plates of the chain, and take it for a ride...
JReviere
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Been seeing some great reviews on the Dupont Teflon stuff though and I may give that a shot on my Aprilia or Katana.
Don't Do It (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=3916)
Please explain - it doesn't work, it destroys the bike, it's not suitable for all bikes? Don't leave us hanging by a thread - I fancy trying this on my next bike.
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Anone find or have read about good results using ATF in the chain oiler?
I read some BMW techs use cheap red ATF on single650 bikes
and can get over 40k miles out of a chain with the auto-oiler.
My friend uses ATF on his BMW single, probably got the idea from the same board you saw it on. He was very happy with it and felt it was working better than the chain wax he was using before that. If nothing else, it didn't hold gunk as much.
I'm trying it in my loobman. Considering how non-diy (impatience and easily frustrated) I am it went very well and once I get the bike back I'll be interested in how my chain life goes.
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Been seeing some great reviews on the Dupont Teflon stuff though and I may give that a shot on my Aprilia or Katana.
Don't Do It (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=3916)
Please explain - it doesn't work, it destroys the bike, it's not suitable for all bikes? Don't leave us hanging by a thread - I fancy trying this on my next bike.
The phrase "Don't Do It" was a hot link... I'll see if I can dig up the original post.
Edit.... Found it. Try this "Don't Do It" (click me) (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=3916) link.
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After about 20,000Km with the Loobman I think it's fair to say that the time and money invested was not quite worth it. Here are my most common problems:
- It was awkward and complicated to install properly, yet oiling head never stays in place for long.
- High maintenance. It requires almost more attention than any regular chain maintenance. Adjust/change the oiling tips, check/add oil, squeeze, wash all the oil that it gets coated in...
- Drips constantly. Messy - my tire is almost always oily and garage has a puddle under the bike.
All in all, it will be coming off the bike soon. I'll replace it with regular Jig-A-Loo or Dupont teflon spray.
Then again, the chain is as good as 20,000Km ago, so maybe...
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Vlad... sorry to read of your troubles. I will agree the Loob-man isn't the perfect solution I can say I haven't had the problems you describe.
I threw away the junk mounting system and made my own (AS SHOWN IN THIS THREAD) (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=3915) - the oiling head stays perfectly aligned. After 30,000+ miles I'm on my second pair of "feelers". I also don't use it on trips of less than 100 miles because of the delay between the squeeze and the dispense.
It's perfect for those longer trips when you don't want to carry additional chain lube. The real trick is to use as little as possible - if you see a solid flow over 1" long in the tube you've used too much. Bottom line.. I use it as a supplement to my (excessive??) chain maintenance procedures.
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I wish I had seen your thread before installing mine...now I have to completely do it over! That looks much better and seems like it will be more robust than the way the kit originally worked. :thanks:
BTW: ATF flows so quick that it is a little better for short trips...at least from what I saw the 3 days I had the loobman on before it went into the shop almost 2 weeks ago.
Andrew
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Vlad... sorry to read of your troubles. I will agree the Loob-man isn't the perfect solution I can say I haven't had the problems you describe.
It didn't really give me any trouble - it just didn't live up to my expectations (quite high, I admit).
My setup is quite similar to yours, minus the 90 degree plate. I used a thicker and stronger wire than the one provided.
I'll take it off on the first rainy day, wash it, replace the feelers and then decide on it's faith. The chances are about 50% that it's going to be replaced with a Teflon spray and/or a bottle of ATF with a fine spout. With a centerstand it's almost as simple to spray/lube as it is to squeeze the bottle every other time I pull over to get gas.
One other thing that made it annoying is having to fiddle with that dirty and oily spout every time I change tires (scrubs, 4-5,000Km) or adjust the chain tension (about every 10,000).
And yes, it drips by itself. I haven't touched that dirty bottle since last October and it still oils my tire every time I park.
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And yes, it drips by itself. I haven't touched that dirty bottle since last October and it still oils my tire every time I park.
Did you drill the little hole in the hose? If you don't then changes in temperature and pressure will set up a siphonic action that will just drain the bottle constantly.
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Did you drill the little hole in the hose?
I don't think I did. I'll do it when I take it off for refurbishing.
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For the curious, here's the links to the various systems in the poll list:
Here's a comparison (with a McCoi bias) between several of the above:
http://www.toadmotors.com/mccoi/oiler_comparison.htm
Um-mm, eh, all I get from this reference website is stepper motors and car dealers. Whazzup? I'd shirley like to have that chain oiler compmaro. Thanks.
Herb
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Sorry about that... looks like you got here too late and the site is no longer owned by the same folks anymore. :sad:
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I got a ScottOiler on my B6, i think its classed as the Magnum with both the standard supply and the number plate reservoir!!
I've had the bike about 3 months now and already clocked close to 2000miles and there's still plenty of "grease /oil" in the reservoir and the chain is always adequately lubed up.
Had a new chain installed about 2 months ago and haven't had to adjust the tension at all in that time and have got to put about a 700 miles on since then. I'm guessing that this will have helped in that area.
Setup looks to be pretty easy but i have to admit that it was already installed on the bike when i got it, so couldn't say for sure. Still it's doing the job for me which is good as i always forget to lube the chain otherwise .. :duh:
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What do you get out of this? Looks to me like the McCoy is the real deal - but I can't tell what the hell thay are saying :monkeymoon: ! Both my german speaking kids are elsewhere on the planet at this time.
No matter how you figure, a fresh final drive set is at least $200.00. If one of these kits will double you final drive life, compensate for riding in bad weather, and not make too bad a mess of the rear end, I might be in. ROI will be within 12 - 15 k miles.
Any group buy discount possibilities for the Real McCoy or the Pro-oiler? I like the speedo & pump thing. I'm not going for lubing one side enough to slop over to the other (I don't do it by hand, I'll be damned if I'll pay the big bucks to have it done) and same for gravity feed.
Thoughts?
Steve
I don't (yet) have a chain oiler, but just ordered a Loobman. But let me tell you about my experiences with chain oiling. I inherited a can of white lithium grease (Lubriplate No. 105) from Pop. A left-over from ww-2? Anyway, I use an old teethbrush (I have more than one tooth) to apply the grease to all 4 sides of the chain, then wipe off the excess with an olde rag. Recently, I had occasion to remove the rear wheel for a tire replacement. I was amazed that a chain with 5,000 miles on it was as limp as a wet dishrag in my hand. Usually, my experience with chains of that mileage/age has been that they behave as if they had rigor-mortis. Maybe the limpnes was due to the X-ring design? I like to think it was the No. 105 Lubriplate. [/unquote] :grin:
Herb
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I was amazed that a chain with 5,000 miles on it was as limp as a wet dishrag in my hand. Usually, my experience with chains of that mileage/age has been that they behave as if they had rigor-mortis. Maybe the limpnes was due to the X-ring design? I like to think it was the No. 105 Lubriplate. :grin:
An X/O/Y ring chain should not be as flexible as you describe, no matter how well lubricated it is, IMO. This means your rings are worn to the point where they don't press against the plates enough to provide proper sealing.
Speaking of oilers, I used Loobman for a while but discarded it because it's messy and maintenance intensive. I realized that it's easier to maintain/oil my chain properly than adjust/fill/squeeze/wash/replace "feelers", etc. on Loobman all the time.
I just realized that my current chain (DID 540ZVM2 gold and Renthal sprockets) has over 30,000Km on it and is still within spec. The only lubricant and cleaner I used on it is Dupont Teflon milti-use lubricant in a spray can. Chain was washed only once (not very thoroughly) and adjusted only when changing rear tire (every 6-12,000Km). No mess, no fling, no hassle whatsoever. I think I found my winning combination.
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I was amazed that a chain with 5,000 miles on it was as limp as a wet dishrag in my hand. Usually, my experience with chains of that mileage/age has been that they behave as if they had rigor-mortis. Maybe the limpnes was due to the X-ring design? I like to think it was the No. 105 Lubriplate. :grin:
An X/O/Y ring chain should not be as flexible as you describe, no matter how well lubricated it is, IMO. This means your rings are worn to the point where they don't press against the plates enough to provide proper sealing.
Speaking of oilers, I used Loobman for a while but discarded it because it's messy and maintenance intensive. I realized that it's easier to maintain/oil my chain properly than adjust/fill/squeeze/wash/replace "feelers", etc. on Loobman all the time.
I just realized that my current chain (DID 540ZVM2 gold and Renthal sprockets) has over 30,000Km on it and is still within spec. The only lubricant and cleaner I used on it is Dupont Teflon milti-use lubricant in a spray can. Chain was washed only once (not very thoroughly) and adjusted only when changing rear tire (every 6-12,000Km). No mess, no fling, no hassle whatsoever. I think I found my winning combination.
Great! You found what works for you, and you have some quality hardware installed (chain, sprockets). That's a happy situation.
I wash my chain regularly since I made special trough to use on it (lastic rain-gutter with end-caps). This keeps the Kerosene where I want it. I'm always amazed at the pile of gritty black gunk left in the filter I use to recycle the Kero. I figure that's a good thing to get out of the chain.
What I wanted to convey was that the X-ring chain I have now was always that floppy since new. I forgot to mention that it has virtually NO sideplay, an indication of low wear. Also, it hasn't gotten any stiffer with age like the OEM chain eventually did. The bike likes the chain too. It seems to be livlier since I installed the
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I just realized that my current chain (DID 540ZVM2 gold and Renthal sprockets)
:btw: Where'd you find a 540 chain & sprockets? :stickpoke: :trustme:
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I just realized that my current chain (DID 540ZVM2 gold and Renthal sprockets)
:btw: Where'd you find a 540 chain & sprockets? :stickpoke: :trustme:
Typing error, it's 530.
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What I wanted to convey was that the X-ring chain I have now was always that floppy since new. I forgot to mention that it has virtually NO sideplay, an indication of low wear. Also, it hasn't gotten any stiffer with age like the OEM chain eventually did. The bike likes the chain too. It seems to be livlier since I installed the
Interesting. I have a 10 link piece of my DID X-ring chain at my desk at work (left-over from longer than spec chain). I use it as a stress reliever often (not that my job is too stressful :) ) and it's as stiff today as it was when I bought it in July 2007. What brand/model of chain are you using?
As for chain cleaning, there's very little need for that in my case. Teflon does not attract dirt and grime nearly as much as other lubricants.
BTW, the best (and only, IMO) indicator of wear is "stretch". Haynes service manual says that the distance between 1st and 21st pin on any part of the chain should not exceed 32cm.
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What I wanted to convey was that the X-ring chain I have now was always that floppy since new. I forgot to mention that it has virtually NO sideplay, an indication of low wear. Also, it hasn't gotten any stiffer with age like the OEM chain eventually did. The bike likes the chain too. It seems to be livelier since I installed it.
Interesting. I have a 10 link piece of my DID X-ring chain at my desk at work (left-over from longer than spec chain). I use it as a stress reliever often (not that my job is too stressful :) ) and it's as stiff today as it was when I bought it in July 2007. What brand/model of chain are you using?
As for chain cleaning, there's very little need for that in my case. Teflon does not attract dirt and grime nearly as much as other lubricants.
BTW, the best (and only, IMO) indicator of wear is "stretch". Haynes service manual says that the distance between 1st and 21st pin on any part of the chain should not exceed 32cm.
Granted. Chain stretch is the gold standard. I admit that my results are empirical, but here they are: 1.- I have so far (5,000 mi.) NOT had to take any slack out of the chain, and 2.- It was very dificult to get the chain off the rear sprocket when I had to get the wheel off for a tire change because the chain had no sideways flex. I had the axle and all the spacers removed, and it was still a struggle to "de-sprocket" the damn thing. The wheel was pushed as far forward as the fender and rear fork would allow.
My chain and sprockets came out of a local dealer's (RTM, Tampa, FL) catalog, and I can only recall the first letter of the name on the book: "P". I believe it contained mostly el-cheapo Oriental stuff, but the prices were low, so I went with the chain and sprockets.
Let me say up front that brand names don't impress me, especially the over-priced European ones. I mean, what we're doing on this site in the first place is loving up an Oriental bike because it's a great product at a low price! There's also a bunch of people here who like Shinko tires (South Korean) for the same reason.
I can just call it as I see it. Don't ask me why this chain seems to work so well - I've got no idea what little yellow guy may have put his heart and soul into this chain. For all I know, he may be a "Samurai Sword" kind of chain-maker. Whatever the case, I like the result.
Finally, I must question your remark about very little need to clean your chain:
[/quote]
As for chain cleaning, there's very little need for that in my case. Teflon does not attract dirt and grime nearly as much as other lubricants. [/unquote]
Reply: The factory Suzuki Manual 99500-39134-03E says on page 2-12 "Wash the chain with kerosene. If the chain tends to rust quickly, the intervals must be shortened". The manual also says (between two CAUTIONS) "After washing and drying the chain, oil it with a heavy weight motor oil" because anything but motor oil "has too great a dissolving power for this (OEM 'O-ring') chain and can damage the seals confining the grease in the bush to pin clearance".
The Suzuki manual says the same thing as the Haynes manual about chain stretch, BUT - my el-cheapo plastic General 6" dial caliper (made in Switzerland(??)) can't open far enough to measure the 12.6" length of chain specified in the manual (21 pins, page 2-11). When I measure across the C.L. of just 7 pins (3.753") and multiply by 3, I get 11.26 inches. A 530-pitch chain should measure 11.13" when new, so my chain has worn less than 0.003" per link in 5,000 miles. There's a lot more wear before it reaches 12.6" per 21 pins! Dividing my measurement of 3.753" by 7, I get 0.536", or a pitch of 536. The wear limit is equal to a pitch of 600. Hm-mm! At that rate, I ought to get 50,000 miles from this chain. Maybe I am doing something right.
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Better late than never. I had a Scottoiler on my 98 B1200. Installed at about 3500miles. I finally had to replace the chain at about 35-40k miles. (Wrecked that bike at about 46k). Installed nuther Scottoiler w/remote reservoir on my 2001 B1200. Chain had about 7k miles on it b4 the oiler. Also, I use old engine oil in the oiler. WTF, it's only going to be on the chain, so why not? Works for me!
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After about 20,000Km with the Loobman I think it's fair to say that the time and money invested was not quite worth it. Here are my most common problems:
- It was awkward and complicated to install properly, yet oiling head never stays in place for long.
- High maintenance. It requires almost more attention than any regular chain maintenance. Adjust/change the oiling tips, check/add oil, squeeze, wash all the oil that it gets coated in...
- Drips constantly. Messy - my tire is almost always oily and garage has a puddle under the bike.
My experience with the Loobman is much like Vlad's. I bought 3 and got 1 free. I put one on my KLR before a long trip and constantly had to adjust it and change oiling tips and found it to be much messier than lubing the chain with a can of chain lube. I put a second one on my V-Strom before a trip, this time taking a ridiculous amount of time installing it making sure the install was perfect. While it didn't need attention quite as often as my first install, the results were, nonetheless, the same. In both cases, I also had a problem with the bottles completely emptying once they got about half full and making a huge mess. Also, as has been mentioned, they are pretty much worthless for short trips and always seem to drip when the bike is parked. I only squeezed out a little at a time as instructed. I gave one to a friend to install on his 650 V-Strom and he had the same experience. The 4th one is still in the package. I'm not putting it on my Bandit!
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hi Craig, LTNS. How you been doing?
:bandit:
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Granted. Chain stretch is the gold standard.
The only way to objectively gauge the chain wear.
Finally, I must question your remark about very little need to clean your chain:
As for chain cleaning, there's very little need for that in my case. Teflon does not attract dirt and grime nearly as much as other lubricants.
The key words there were "in my case" and I stand by that assessment. I can certainly understand the need for more/less frequent cleaning when using motor oil and/or most dedicated chain lubricants - that stuff attracts dust, sand and road debris like my grandmother's jam attracts bees. Speaking of my case, here is what it is:
Chain: D.I.D. ZVM2 (about CA$100 more expensive than the worst non-o-ring junk)
Lubrication: Exclusively Dupont Teflon Multi Purpose spray. Cheap, versatile, not messy and widely available. A 5-10 second spray, approximately once per tank of gas.
Mileage so far: 42,000Km, about one quarter on dirt/gravel roads or in pouring rain. I love to make bandit's torque work.
Stretch: Still within spec (~1mm under the limit).
Maintenance: Practically none. Washed once, after 30,000Km or so, just because I was bored.
Adjustment: After first 1,000Km and then only at rear tire changes (7-13,000Km).
Rust: None/never, even after long rides in pouring rain.
Reply: The factory Suzuki Manual 99500-39134-03E says on page 2-12 "Wash the chain with kerosene. If the chain tends to rust quickly, the intervals must be shortened". The manual also says (between two CAUTIONS) "After washing and drying the chain, oil it with a heavy weight motor oil" because anything but motor oil "has too great a dissolving power for this (OEM 'O-ring') chain and can damage the seals confining the grease in the bush to pin clearance".
That's all fine and will do the job, for those that don't know better. Dupont Teflon is safe for o-rings, it says so explicitly on the can. It does not attract dust and grime and it certainly does not allow the chain to rust. About the only recommendation from the manual that still makes sense is the use of kerosene.
Speaking of kerosene, I washed my aforementioned chain with dish washing soap after I took it off the bike a week ago. It wasn't nearly as hard to wash as my previous chain that was lubed with 80 weight oil, but would still repel water even after it was cleaned of all residue. I just hung it to dry without oiling it again and it looks and feels just as good as the piece of the same chain that was never used. BTW, I'm not going to put that chain back on the bike because I already bought a new one, but will keep it as a spare and won't hesitate to use it again if the need arises. It's good for at least another 10,000Km.
Dupont Teflon rules. Until something considerably better comes along (I can hardly imagine any property that could be improved) no chain of mine will ever see any other lubricant, period.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/dupont-teflon-chain-lube.htm
The Suzuki manual says the same thing as the Haynes manual about chain stretch, BUT - my el-cheapo plastic General 6" dial caliper
No need for ultra-precise measurement there. A good tape measure and a sharp eye will do the job. I wouldn't take the factory/Haynes manual prescribed limit as a gospel either. For me it's more of an indicator when is the time to order new chain/sprockets and shorten the chain/sprocket inspection intervals.
Maybe I am doing something right.
You sure are. The chain is still in good shape and performs well for your bike and riding style.