Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: PaulVS on September 23, 2006, 04:27:17 PM
-
It's rumoured that we'll get it here next spring... but just a check to see how many people we could get to email Suzuki to give them some impetus to bring the '07 Bandit to the USA...
-
well, I would email them to encourage it simply because I think we should see more variety in our market. I personally wouldn't buy one for a variety of reasons beginning with the fact that I prefer smaller bikes (love my B4, aren't you all jealous :grin: ). And I think we need more smaller bikes in our market -- witness the number of squids who wrap their brand new big bikes around telephone poles. on second thought, maybe natural selection is a good thing :lol:.
But, I would encourage them just to help my fellow bandit buddies.
-
Like andrews mentioned, we need more of a variety of bikes here in the states. Preferably bikes that are affordable for the general public. I would e-mail Suzuki, because the Bandit is a good all around bike that deserves a chance here in the states. :motorsmile:
-
Frankly, I'm a little disappointed in the '07 version. While I think it's great they've put in a bigger motor (130 hp, according the French mags), the new brakes of the '06 appear to be a downgrade from the 2G and it's handling has not been improved to keep up with other bikes in its niche. While I LOVE my B12 dearly, if I was going to buy something new, it probably wouldn't be this 3.5G bike.
What really got my interest was the photos of the 2008 Kawasaki GTR1400 Concours replacement - based on the ZZR/ZX1400, but with shaft drive, a few less ponies, hard bags, handlebars and toned-down Testarossa strakes. I'll have to scan some pics from the magazine when I get back to work on Monday.
Now if Suzuki would build a sport-tourer along the lines of the FJR, GTR, ST13 with a 'Busa-based motor, that would also get my attention!
-
It's not a cruiser. Who's gonna buy enough to warrant distribution?
-
It's not a cruiser. Who's gonna buy enough to warrant distribution?
This is sort of like the argument against fuel-efficient cars. The market (at least until recently) was only apparaently interested in big gas guzzling SUV's, but IMH and unsupported O, the only thing being made were big gas-guzzling SUV's, so what were people supposed to buy? Sometimes manufacturers can drive the market by providing other choices. A new bike purchaser, when given choices may actually opt for the Bandit over a cruiser when compared side-by-side in terms of performance, price, handling etc. Maybe the market wouldn't be big, but I think it would be there. I suspect the market will begin moving away from the cruiser fad as the current cruiser buyers recover from the effects of the kool-aid. :grin:
I have more to say on this but have to run. also, not trying to start a flame-war here.
-
It's not a cruiser. Who's gonna buy enough to warrant distribution?
This is sort of like the argument against fuel-efficient cars. The market (at least until recently) was only apparaently interested in big gas guzzling SUV's, but IMH and unsupported O, the only thing being made were big gas-guzzling SUV's, so what were people supposed to buy? Sometimes manufacturers can drive the market by providing other choices. A new bike purchaser, when given choices may actually opt for the Bandit over a cruiser when compared side-by-side in terms of performance, price, handling etc. Maybe the market wouldn't be big, but I think it would be there. I suspect the market will begin moving away from the cruiser fad as the current cruiser buyers recover from the effects of the kool-aid. :grin:
I have more to say on this but have to run. also, not trying to start a flame-war here.
Americans are obsessed with cruisers. Walk in any showroom anywhere. It's rather sad. I mean, I'm glad cruisers are an option for people who just flat out like them, but I think most sales relate to motorcycle ignorance. No experience with bikes, but want to try a bike. Have heard the bogus Harley hype their whole life, so they want that. They find out Harleys are way expensive, and poof! You got Japanese Harleys and not only that, but German Harleys, too. I would bet you money that's not changing any time soon.
There's a lotta mo' Kool-Aid out there! :lol:
-
Personally I think cruisers are a maneuvering death trap. Its takes very good maneuvering as it is to clear high-speed traffic trouble on a standard or sport bike which have infinitely better handling. I can imagine going back to cruiser style handling on highways. I think the whole cruiser culture reached its zenith about a year ago. In a few years as the older boomers continue to die from crashes ignorantly, younger boomers are starting to look more at handling and bikes like the V-storm (V-twin sport and standards) with European styling are going to be the next big migration.
Besides the B12 had its last year here in 05 complete with commemorative colors and should have ceased from production world-wide taking it place as one of the best long running and most evolved models with a great race history engine. No, the Bandit needs to take its place with all the great classics and die honorably and with dignity, not another face lift.
-
'07...
(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2007/Suzuki_GSF_Bandit_1250_S_2007_stpz.jpg)
You don't like it?
-
I like it, it looks alot like the 1G bandit (which is WAY better looking than the 2g :stickpoke: ) I probably won't buy one but it wouldn't kill me to send an email, to help other bandit lovers get the bike they need!
-
I'd be very intersted to upgrade my 1998 B12. I was pretty serious about the new FZ-1. But this promises more torque,,,,beter comfort, myabe good sport.
-
I kinda wonder why the big switch to water cooling. Doesn't oil cooling preserve an engine better?
-
I can tell you from a dragracer's point, that a watercooled bike, for the weekend dragracer, is a lot better than the oil/air cooled bikes. you can run a lot of laps, you don't have to wait 15 minutes between runs for the engine to cool down. Its just newer and better technology :motorsmile:
-
'07...
(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2007/Suzuki_GSF_Bandit_1250_S_2007_stpz.jpg)
You don't like it?
I suppose its only fair for me to say that I didn’t know that the B12 still being sold outside the USA is now water cooled. What a face lift.
-
IS THAT A HONDA MOTOR ??? :stickpoke:
-
What is funny is that i was thinking the same thing.
-
I actually thought it looked alot like the old 6 cylinder Kawasaki, with 2 cylinders missing.(just the engine, not the bike)
-
"Rocketjock" said:
I kinda wonder why the big switch to water cooling. Doesn't oil cooling preserve an engine better?
Watercooling is more effecient. When this engine family made it's debut, it sported oil cooling instead of water cooling as a weight savings. The main reason, IMHO, for the switch now is because water cooling will enable them to control engine temp better and therefore comply with the tighter Euro 3 emissions regs. Suzuki had to either re-engine the Bandit line or drop them as the SACS motors probably couldn't comply with Euro 3.
-
I was just thinking that with Kawasaki introducing the new Concours, that is going to have to cost 13K plus, if Suzuki put a bigger fairing, detachable bags and added a shaft drive to this new Bandit, AND kept the price around 9K, all the Connie owners, and there are a lot of them, who have been pleading to Kawasaki for these upgrades would finally have a reason to switch. Connie owners are cheap and they won't be going to the new bike because of cost. Those that would have already did to the FJR and ST 1300. Suzuki has a chance to grab a BIG niche market here.
-
"Old_n_Slow" sez:[/b]
...if Suzuki put a bigger fairing, detachable bags and added a shaft drive to this new Bandit, AND kept the price around 9K, all the Connie owners, and there are a lot of them, who have been pleading to Kawasaki for these upgrades would finally have a reason to switch. Connie owners are cheap and they won't be going to the new bike because of cost. Those that would have already did to the FJR and ST 1300. Suzuki has a chance to grab a BIG niche market here.
Heck, I'd even be one of them!
-
MCN (a Brit weekly motorcycle newspaper) recently had a pic of what they called a 2007 Bandit 1200 GT. It was an artist's rendering done with a computer program but based on a trial balloon floated (presumably) by Suzuki GB. It had a full fairing with the 3 hard bag setup but was otherwise an apparently stock G3 B12S. If the price was kept right (and it was easy enough to remove the fairing lowers/bellypan once you got it home) they just might have a winner.....and gain some switchover business from the Connie folks.
However, I cannot/cannot see the engine, as it currently is, meeting Euro '07 emissions. At a minimum, they'd have to go to fuel injection with catalyst and it would probably still be over Euro 3 limits.....probably/maybe.
I'm betting that we will get an entirely new bike that would LOOK somewhat like the G3 (as a means of keeping the "faithful" customer base intact) but it WILL be watercooled/injected/catalysed so it can once again be sold in the US. Some countries (possibly Canada among them) will get a non-catalyst version but it'll still be water cooled/injected.
No, the Bandit needs to take its place with all the great classics and die honorably and with dignity, not another face lift.
I agree with the Gunner....let the King die with dignity.
As usual, IMHO.....but your mileage may vary. :grin:
-
I love the look, looks like my 2001 GSF600S. I have been looking for litre size bandit replacement for the 600.
At 130hp this bike would be equal to the Z1000 in power. I wonder about weight? The Z is kinda porky at 460 plus. I would prefer something a little less ( I realize at Bandit prices I cant get a 370 pound bike). The 919 Honda just didnt do it for me, about 100hp and very smooth, looking for more beast. The FZ-1 has fuel injection issues, otherwise a very quick bike, the quickest of the group. but not pretty.
The 07 GSF1250 bike looks great, I would buy now! ( Grand Blue please, same as my 01).
-
MCN (a Brit weekly motorcycle newspaper) recently had a pic of what they called a 2007 Bandit 1200 GT. It was an artist's rendering done with a computer program but based on a trial balloon floated (presumably) by Suzuki GB. It had a full fairing with the 3 hard bag setup but was otherwise an apparently stock G3 B12S.
It's a real bike not computer generated, it doesn't have fairing lowers, but does have a bellypan./ Available in the UK and other places, probably to get rid of the last oil cooled motors
http://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/article.asp?id=675
-
You can get a new FZ-1 for $9k. This one should go for no more than $8k. Should be less than an SV. Maybe the same $7500 as the air cooled bike? That is my guess anyway.
I'd still like to know more about the engine architecture. It is a water cooled version of the original engine, or a version of the 'Busa? If it weighs like the current bike and has anopther 25hp & 10 lbs-ft...I'd be revved! Sorry no alum frame or USD forks....but if it's sporty-sleeper, why not? It's a BANDIT, man. Why not blow a sporty bike away with a big ol' thumper?
I kind of like the Gen 3 bikes fetures with adjustable seat & bars. Sporty, touring, poor man's Beemer & Hooligan bike- all in one!
I hope they have it at the next Cycle World Show in Nov!
I was just thinking that with Kawasaki introducing the new Concours, that is going to have to cost 13K plus, if Suzuki put a bigger fairing, detachable bags and added a shaft drive to this new Bandit, AND kept the price around 9K, all the Connie owners, and there are a lot of them, who have been pleading to Kawasaki for these upgrades would finally have a reason to switch. Connie owners are cheap and they won't be going to the new bike because of cost. Those that would have already did to the FJR and ST 1300. Suzuki has a chance to grab a BIG niche market here.
-
geeesss It looks just like Craig's Gen 1 bike. (GT Bandit)
Black Bandit with Givi Cases.
MCN (a Brit weekly motorcycle newspaper) recently had a pic of what they called a 2007 Bandit 1200 GT. It was an artist's rendering done with a computer program but based on a trial balloon floated (presumably) by Suzuki GB. It had a full fairing with the 3 hard bag setup but was otherwise an apparently stock G3 B12S.
It's a real bike not computer generated, it doesn't have fairing lowers, but does have a bellypan./ Available in the UK and other places, probably to get rid of the last oil cooled motors
http://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/article.asp?id=675
-
I just did a tranlation of this from French.....the translation program calls it a Suzuki "Gangster".........LMAO
'07...
(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2007/Suzuki_GSF_Bandit_1250_S_2007_stpz.jpg)
You don't like it?
-
Suzuki Gangster 1250 NR and Bandit 1250 S
Price: approx. 8.000 €/8.300 €
Availability: March/April 2007
Like Gangster 650, his older sister evolves/moves deeply this year by inheriting a very new driving block whose cubic capacity increases by 98 Cm3 to reach exactly 1.255 Cm3 (against 1.157 Cm3 before). It will thus be necessary to be done there, the “twelve” becomes “twelve fifty” Gangster and sees his famous extrapolated engine of the “old” GSX-R 1.100 replaced by a more modern block with liquid cooling. Shorter, in particular thanks to the vertical positioning of the box shafts, it now has six speeds (five before), associated an ordering of fluid clutch. The ground clearance is less the priority on this type of motor bike, its alternator thus returns in end of crankshaft in order to decrease the losses by friction (due to the drive of the old model placed behind the block-cylinder). The value of boring remains the same one (either the diameter of the piston, 79 mm) but the race increases by 5 mm to reach 64 Misters the valves (diam. 31 mm with the admission and 27 mm with the exhaust) form a tighter angle between them (16°), which made it possible “to compact” the cylinder head and the combustion chambers, with with final better mixing of the mixture. There still, the slope of carburettors disappears with the profit from a food by injection more adapted to the standards from our time, Euros 3 since 2007! Besides a system of injection of air in the exhaust makes it possible to limit polluting gases. Remain that this profit of cubic capacity should guarantee a level of high torque and a higher power on almost all the beach of mode if one believes the first curves of the manufacturer of them. The driving character of the large Japanese roadster should thus nothing lose in the operation, hope for it in any case!
-
8000 euros.....that's about $7200 !
I'm stoked, other than the alternator hanging on the side of the motor.
bting it to Cycle World Show Suzuki.
-
98 Cm3 and 10 kg additional
Logically heavier, this new engine influences directly the gauge of the motor bike, which takes it also a few additional kilos to reach 225 kg in version S (against 215 kg before). The general design and the geometry are completely unchanged compared to last year, even the footing is identical except for the millimetre (1 480 mm). But the diameter of the tubes of framework increases in order to increase its rigidity. Screw-locking device, suspensions and tires are also taken again preceding year there (the shock absorber losing still its adjustment of relaxation). Side equipment, the 1250 inherits the adjustable saddle in height (+ 20 mm) but the handlebar remains fixed. Let us note all the same a tiny increase height of saddle (+ 5 mm). Aesthetic side, one finds the small evolutions quoted as a preliminary for the 650. ABS is also available in option. The prices of the two versions proposed (NR and S) could however increase slightly with the arrival of this new motor unit. Response to the first quarter 2007…
By Julien Metrop - Mecamix
Suzuki Gangster 1250 NR (Gangster 1250 S)
The chart:
Engine: Four-cylinder-in-line, 4 times
Distribution: double ACT, 4 valves/cyl.
Cubic capacity: 1.255 Cm3
Boring X race: 79 X 64
Compression ratio: 10.5: 1
Cooling: liquid
Food: electronic injection (diam. 36 mm)
Clutch: multidisk in bath of oil, hydraulic control
Final transmission: chain (43x18)
Box: 6 speeds
Tally: double steel cradle
Suspensions before: hydraulic telescopic fork, diam. 43 mm; adjustable in preload; back: hydraulic, adjustable mono-shock absorber in prestressing
Brake before: double disc diam. 310 mm, clamps four opposite pistons; back: simple disc diam. 240 mm, clamp two pistons; ABS in option
Tire before: 120/70 X 17; back: 180/55 X 17
Tank: 19 liters
L X L X H: 2.130 X 790 X 1.095 (1 225) mm
Footing: 1.480 mm
Height of saddle: 790/810 mm
Dry weight: 222 kg (225 kg)
the chart shows it has no more power than the oil cooled bike but makes the power at fewer RPMs.
-
Umm... Nevermind. :wink:
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GSF1250SAK7/Default.aspx
-
$8800?
WOW.....thats as much as the SV........hope its got some HP
-
According to the French magazines, horsepower is 130.
-
$8800?
WOW.....thats as much as the SV........hope its got some HP
Yes but SV1000S's usually sell for 7600.00 out the door
-
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GSF1250SAK7/Default.aspx
Here is the site.
-
My local dealer has one on his spring devlivery sheet..
But ONLY one...
Black..
Said he'd give me $2800 for my 97 as a 'deposit' on the '07...
-
$8200 for a blue S model
$8800 for a red or black ABS model.
so the dealer tells me. I wonder if Yamaha will have a red FZ-1 with more mid range and better suspension?
-
I paid $6800 OTD for my new 05 B12s. If water cooling is going to pop the price up between 9k and 10k OTD, you might as well spend 20% more and buy a Ninja 14, at least it has been engineered from the ground up and not a make over.
-
How about the 2008 Suzuki Davidson Springer Bandit. An idea that has finally come to light.
Better things for better living through INSANITY !!!!
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3787/harleybanditforwebfs7.jpg)
:duh:
-
New frame, new motor, new fuel delivery, new cooling... It seems like more of a redesign than a makeover to me. In my mind tho, I still wonder why you redesign a bike in this class to be nearly 500lbs dry!!!. It's now got like 70lbs on the FZ1. I don't get it.
BTW Larry, you must have way too much time on your hands! :duh:
-
Hello all . I usually just lurk, but last night I went to pick up a new chain and sprocket set for my 97 blue 1200. My brother in law, who works for a local Suz/Kaw dealer said they had already placed the order for the 07 Bandit.2 models, one ABS one non-abs.Looks like they are on their way!
Donnie Ewing
-
Where are you located?
-
It's not really a "new" frame. It has stronger downtubes, which would add weight. That plus the coolant and a larger catalyzer probably accounts for the majority of the difference. My guess is that an aftermarket exhaust will slash 20 pounds from the beast, since you could save something like 15 pounds on the old B12.
-
The new 1250 Bandit is here in the U.S.! Even the ABS version. Check out Suzuki's website. www.suzukicycles.com.
-
Still no 6th gear? I've got to loose some wieght on my next bike. I've got the hots for a SV1000. I'm going for handling over hp,and I think I could carve up some roads with one. But the old Bandit will stay in the stable too. Dan
-
I think that's a typo on Suzuki's site saying a 5-speed under "Specs". Click on "Features" and look under the heading "Engine" and you will see it is indeed a 6-speed. Top gear designed for lower rpm at highway speeds.
Warren
-
Well my final feelings on this new generation X bandit is that although it seems great I don’t like the reflective metallic stamped out engine look. I much prefer the 1st & 2nd Gen dark engine and fins. Besides the 2nd Gen Bandits were the final and best culmination of improvements on a tried and tested model with a great race heritage oil/air cooled engine (a classic) that they could no longer find room to improve. So now you have a completely new untested bike that they have named and badged Bandit. Sort of reminds me of the new cars they call Malibu and Duster after the great originals. Well that just my opinion, but I think they should have called it the Blue Injector or the Water Wing.
:scaredmouse:
-
Well my final feelings on this new generation X bandit is that although it seems great I don’t like the reflective metallic stamped out engine look. I much prefer the 1st & 2nd Gen dark engine and fins. Besides the 2nd Gen Bandits were the final and best culmination of improvements on a tried and tested model with a great race heritage oil/air cooled engine (a classic) that they could no longer find room to improve. So now you have a completely new untested bike that they have named and badged Bandit. Sort of reminds me of the new cars they call Malibu and Duster after the great originals. Well that just my opinion, but I think they should have called it the Blue Injector or the Water Wing.
:scaredmouse:
Ditto. What he said.
-
picky picky picky
:lol:
-
I have looked and read and I dont want a bike that weighs 505 dry and what 550 wet???
No thanks. Its not heavy, its way too heavy and its 9 grand, I think they could have used some better lighter components for the money.
Ill ride an old Bandit.
-
I like the look of the new 1250. I don't think it's a big step up from the old Bandits. I can't see paying out that much money for a new bike. I love the FJR but I can't afford $13,500 for a new one. Think I will keep my '97 1200s for a while longer. I need to upgrade the suspension and it will almost be my perfect bike. I have a Givi setup W/ 2 had bags,I can carry one or both bags. I have the Corbin w/ the backrest. A cheap Garmin w/ mount for directions. The old Bandit makes a good Sport Tourer set up this way. The best part is it's paid for and I know my the bike well. :motorsmile:
-
• All new, liquid-cooled, fuel injected, DOHC engine featuring a bore and stroke of 79.0mm x 64.0mm for a full 1254.8cc's of torque producing performance
• New Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve fuel injection system featuring 36mm throttle bodies for optimum performance and smooth accelerations
• All new engine compact engine design with a central cam chain, staggered transmission shafts, tighter spacing between the pairs of cylinders and a secondary balancer shaft for reduced vibration
• A new catalyzer equipped high volume muffler combined with an effective engine management system, Suzuki PAIR system, and oxygen sensor for reduced emissions meeting tough Euro 3 standards
• Suzuki Idle Speed Control (ISC) system for improved cold starting, consistent idle control and reduced emissions
• A new slick shifting six speed transmission improves acceleration while reducing top gear rpm at highway speeds
• New hydraulic clutch with coil springs for improved lever feel and control
• New liquid cooled oil cooler for reduced oil temperatures
• All new cylinder head featuring 31mm exhaust valves and 27mm intake valves set at a narrow 16 degree valve angle with updated intake and exhaust ports for maximum flow
-
Maybe I didn't calculate it very well...but is the power to weight ratio down or nearly the same from the 2nd Gens? Why the hell would you want that? If it isn't any better why the hell would I want to buy it?
It seems kinda retarded to me to spend that kind of money on a bike that isn't any better.
What the crap is Suzuki thinking over there? And I thought we were the ones with the crack problems. Good to see we apparently export some to the Japanese engineers.
It would figure they couldn't get it right what do you expect when they can't even get their Drz 450 out. :duh:
-
I more concerned with how much you can do with the engine. Like if GSXR 1100 water cooled cams will work, or what pistons may work. max horsepower looks to be about the same as the 06 B12, but it makes it at a lower RPM. The weight can probably be shed by getting rid of the useless stuff and changing the exhaust.
I wonder why they didn't just use the water cooled gsxr 1100, stroked and bored to 1250 cc. :beers:
-
Bob is definately mr suuki performance. I am just surprised you are happy with the new model. I just cant find anything positive to say. Too heavy (I dont think theres much weight you can shed without replacing alot of parts $$$$), same horsepower, which has fallen behind, plain jain cheap fork.
I think Suzuki spent a good deal of money redesigning the engine and the other components you mentioned but missed the mark on the total package. I cant see this bike selling enough to stay around.
-
I would have prefered the Busa engine, with 160 horsepower.
If this engine can be built to around 180 rwhp, it will be a good alternitive to the Busa and ZX12/14s at the drag strip, but you are right, if it doesn't catch on with street riders, it wan't last in the U.S.
:motorsmile:
-
Maybe I didn't calculate it very well...but is the power to weight ratio down or nearly the same from the 2nd Gens? Why the hell would you want that? If it isn't any better why the hell would I want to buy it?
It seems kinda retarded to me to spend that kind of money on a bike that isn't any better.
What the crap is Suzuki thinking over there? And I thought we were the ones with the crack problems. Good to see we apparently export some to the Japanese engineers.
It would figure they couldn't get it right what do you expect when they can't even get their Drz 450 out. :duh:
That is the way I read the new B-1250s. Same RWHP (at earlier RPM) loads of new weight, and same old clunky but reinforced waterpipe frame.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I was quoted $10,500.00 for the new ABS B-12, which puts it in the same price range as the 140 hp FZ-1, which has a modern frame, modern chasis, and brakes. Yes the FZ-1 has some mapping problems which I am sure will be ironed out. But I am also sure the new B-12 will have it's problems just like any other new model bike.
Yes, I am sure you will be able to make it go faster, but at $10,500.00, for starters, (I am talking Canadian Prices here BTW), You would end up with a pretty expensive bike that would not come close to the power to weight numbers the FZ-1 puts out. (Priced at $10,500.00 Canadian Bucks)
I do enjoy my 2002 B-12, but the last thing I ever said it needed was an additional 50 lbs of weight.
I know where my money would go....
I am sorry, but I think Zuki is not going to sell a pile of these. The old Bandit was a budget bike, that did have value. I don't see this in the new 1250.
-
I'm sure glad I got my 06 at a nice discount over the 07 :wink:
-
I don't like the look of the new 07 Bandit's engine much. The rest of the bike looks fine. It will be interesting to read any future mag reviews. I'm drooling over the new Ducati 1098. 381 pounds, 160 hp, and beautiful! Wish I had the fifteen grand to buy one. :crybaby:
-
I can only speak for my 2005 pricing technical research when I bought a new B12 MSRP was $7,500 and I found a dealer that would sell me one for $6,750 OTD. It was an outstanding price for such a powerful bike with such a great motor, track record and history of reliability and multifunction, even the favorite of Hollywood for use as a stunt bike. It was the best at what it did for the price, the peoples super bike, with so many aftermarket options it could practically be made custom at non-custom prices. The 2007 B12 Waterwing is great but if I am going to spend $9000 to make a jump to a new super bike its not going to be for a baby step , its going to have to be a real leap even if it cost more money like the 2008 Concourse, now that’s one hell of a technologically advanced multifunction superbike that is an upright ride.
http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=7461