Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: Red01 on September 27, 2006, 02:21:25 PM
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Around 4 moths ago, Cycle World showed a photoshop job of a rumored Kawasaki GTR1400. It was discussed some in a ZX 14 thread. (http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=5266&highlight=zx14)
Here's a scan of the little blurb CW gave it:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/ride200mi/e3b2a1f9.jpg)
The other day, while browsing French news stands for magazines with the new B12.5, I came across another French rag called L'Integral. They had a two page article on the GTR1400. These pics don't look photoshopped to me.
(And I really like how they toned down the Testarossa grillwork of the ZZR/ZX1!)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/GTR14001.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/GTR14002.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/GTR14003.jpg)
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Yes this is in fact the new Concours to come out. It's been all over a Concours BBS as well as the GPZ mailing list.
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Why the hell doesn't Suzuki make something like that. I'll keep my bandit forever but the little lady and I would love one of these. I would really like to stay with Suz but ... :wtf:
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You took the words right out of my mouth. This bike will mean Suzuki is now the only one of the Japanese big 4 without a comparable entry.
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By the way, that picture in the first post is not the same as the rest. The first one is a ZX-14 with luggage. The others are the newest Connie that will come out. :stickpoke:
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The ZX-14 is a very difficult bike to work on the engine .
That new bike is supposed to come with some type of V-Tec and if it's like the Interceptor 800 or worse , oh boy there's going to be quite a few maintenance intervals bypassed .
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There may be something in the wind, Here's what Zuk did in the UK for '06
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?page=motorcyclenews.articles.articleCategory.article&resourceId=5535437&articleCategory=NEWS_NEW-BIKES
Ugly as sin but at least they've acknowledged a sport touring market. Clean up the bags, offer lowers on the fairing and we may have something here!
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The Bandit still looks better sans luggage. Suzuki really should get with the program. A comfortable, well designed, sport " dresser " with 120+ rwhp would sell like crazy I won't ride a cruiser and I don't want to fork over the money for a Beemer. You can't beat Japanese reliability or performance.
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By the way, that picture in the first post is not the same as the rest. The first one is a ZX-14 with luggage. The others are the newest Connie that will come out. :stickpoke:
Of course it was... it was a photoshop job on a ZX-14 done before Kawasaki had made anything public.
UPDATE:
Finally, some power numbers have been released:
152.8 hp (114 KW) @ 8,800 RPM
100.3 ft-lbs (13,9 kgm or 136 Nm) @ 6,200 RPM
Also, some newer pics. The first ones were of the prototype. Looks like there's been some tweaking of the fairing vents - perhaps to avoid some of the heat complaints the FJR & ST13 owners gave their bikes?
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/GTR-Connie14-01.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/GTR-Connie14-02.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/GTR-Connie14-03.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/GTR-Connie14-04.jpg)
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You took the words right out of my mouth. This bike will mean Suzuki is now the only one of the Japanese big 4 without a comparable entry.
Well, they introduced the Hayabusa. Then they made a street version called the B-King. What's to say that their next variant won't be a full-on sport-tourer with luggage?
(It should really have a shaft drive though.)
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:clap:
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It's a nice bike! Looks good, good numbers, I like the black of course. :bandit:
What's 16,500 Euros come out to in American dollars, I wonder? :yikes:
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:clap:
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It's a nice bike! Looks good, good numbers, I like the black of course. :bandit:
What's 16,500 Euros come out to in American dollars, I wonder? :yikes:
You don't want to go there. It will be a big heavy bike nowhere as agile as the 1250 and for the money you could have two 1250s.
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It's a nice bike! Looks good, good numbers, I like the black of course. :bandit:
What's 16,500 Euros come out to in American dollars, I wonder? :yikes:
I like the black better than the silver, too... maybe red is on the horizon for next year? :wink:
At today's rate, €16,500 = US$22,262.45
Don't let that scare you though. Bikes in Europe almost always cost quite a bit more than the same thing in the US. Kawi has promised the C14 will be priced competively with the FJR. Current speculation, based on how released prices in other countries compare to the FJR in the same country say the new C14 should have a MSRP of ~$13.8K +/- a few hundred.
Not quite the price of two new 1250s. :bandit:
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:clap:
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I saw one at the turntable on the Kaw stand at the Cycle World Show in Ft Worth last Nov.
That bike isn't out yet? Come to think of it, I haven't read a road test and haven't been in Kaw store in months.
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It's a nice bike! Looks good, good numbers, I like the black of course. :bandit:
What's 16,500 Euros come out to in American dollars, I wonder? :yikes:
You don't want to go there. It will be a big heavy bike nowhere as agile as the 1250 and for the money you could have two 1250s.
Oh, don't worry, I wouldn't consider buying one. The B1250 is everything I want... and at under $8K. It's only going to cost me another:
Lower fairing... $450
Windshield.... $150
Slip-on.... $300 (I might just modify the stock can)
Handguards.... $50 (already installed)
K&N/airbox mod... $30
TFI/PCIII/remap... $300
Side/top racks... $350 (I think I'll make those myself)
That comes to- $1630
The bike cost- $7750
Grand total- $9380
Still well under $10K, and if I modify the stock can and make my own racks, I'll save another $650 and be well under $9K. That's about $5K less than the Concours 14 is gonna cost... enough for a DR650 (in black, of course :bandit: )!
I don't like the hard cases anyway, and I already have a good set of matching soft luggage.
I don't like shaft drive either... sure, it's convenient, but it adds a lot of weight and robs horsepower... I like the instant response of chain drive.
And the Bandit is lighter, handles better, and looks way better.... in my opinion. :lol:
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Why the hell doesn't Suzuki make something like that. I'll keep my bandit forever but the little lady and I would love one of these. I would really like to stay with Suz but ... :wtf:
You mean something like this?
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/ZenMan33/B1250ST.jpg)
My dealer informed me that everything seen here will be available from Suzuki sometime this year.
It wouldn't suprise me if the whole bike came out in '08, maybe with shaft drive and more integrated luggage and bodywork. '08 B1250ST? :motorsmile:
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Well Zen luckily I put 5000 miles on my Bandit so I will know exactly what the differences are when I test ride the "14-GTR", although I will have to account for the after market power my bandit had over late stock. :pop:X2
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I saw one at the turntable on the Kaw stand at the Cycle World Show in Ft Worth last Nov.
That bike isn't out yet? Come to think of it, I haven't read a road test and haven't been in Kaw store in months.
I saw it at the show in Atlanta in FEB. The Kawa website now says it will be a SUMMER release, not a SPRING release. So who knows...the one we saw was not a production model, and the final may be different in the details. But I still want one!
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You mean something like this?
Ugh! That's what's kpt me from hardside luggage and tourers...I notice you didn't post a head-on shot with those ugly bulges bolted on the Bandit's butt! That's part of the appeal of the Concours 1400...it manages to make a fat lady look, well, not svelt, but certainly sculpted.
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Well Zen luckily I put 5000 miles on my Bandit so I will know exactly what the differences are when I test ride the "14-GTR", although I will have to account for the after market power my bandit had over late stock. :pop:X2
Actually you won't have any idea. The B1250 is a whole different animal than your '05 G2 was... no matter what mods you had. You have to ride one to understand what everyone is talking about. But you refuse to do that. don't you? Your loss. :roll:
Hey, buy the Connie 14 and be happy... am I telling you not to? I believe I was responding to SteelD, not you. :annoy:
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You mean something like this?
Ugh! That's what's kpt me from hardside luggage and tourers...I notice you didn't post a head-on shot with those ugly bulges bolted on the Bandit's butt! That's part of the appeal of the Concours 1400...it manages to make a fat lady look, well, not svelt, but certainly sculpted.
Hey, didn't you read above where I said I don't like hard bags either? I posted that pic in response to Dandit's post.
I think the new Connie looks too wide also... but beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, right? :lol:
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Hey, didn't you read above where I said I don't like hard bags either? I posted that pic in response to Dandit's post.
I think the new Connie looks too wide also... but beauty is in the eye of the beerholder, right? :lol:
The post with th epic looked like an endorsement...sorry if I misunderstood.
Yeah, I am having a hard time with the Connie 14 compared to my nimble little B12, but I also like the long trips and commuting, and integrated luggage would be a plus. As I said, at least it looks like it all goes together (sculpted) even if it doens't look slim and trim.
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The post with th epic looked like an endorsement...sorry if I misunderstood.
No worries... :wink: I just posted that pic because folks were saying that Suzuki doesn't have a sport-tourer, and the bike in the pic might be an indication that Zuk could be coming out with an ST version of the B1250 in '08.
Yeah, I am having a hard time with the Connie 14 compared to my nimble little B12, but I also like the long trips and commuting, and integrated luggage would be a plus. As I said, at least it looks like it all goes together (sculpted) even if it doens't look slim and trim.
Well, if Suzuki does come out with an ST version of the B1250 in '08, they might sculpt it a little... by integrating the luggage system into the bodywork, adding a full fairing with adjustable windscreen, even adding a shaft drive... who knows?
I do know the new engine is well suited for a ST version... and it wouldn't take much to punch it out to 1300 or bigger. It could be the logical next step. Suzuki does have a history of suprising us from time to time, aye? :bandit:
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:clap:
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You mean like the one I had! It looked good enough to be an 08 Bandit with character. Maybe the 08 model will come with OnStar. :lol: Ah Ga ga ga ga ga ga ga!
Uhhh, did you skip your meds today, CWO? :bolt:
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It's a nice bike! Looks good, good numbers, I like the black of course. :bandit:
What's 16,500 Euros come out to in American dollars, I wonder? :yikes:
You don't want to go there. It will be a big heavy bike nowhere as agile as the 1250 and for the money you could have two 1250s.
Oh, don't worry, I wouldn't consider buying one. The B1250 is everything I want... and at under $8K.
Too right. I don't know what the fuss is about. In the UK we've known about this Kawa for about 9 months (and I still haven't seen one in the flesh yet). However, coming from an FJR which is similar, I know that it is a totally different animal to the B1250.
In the UK, the B1250 is priced at £5.5k and the FJR is £10.5k (or £11.5k for the semi-auto version). The FJR is about 40 kg heavier, it isn't as nimble as a B1250 and takes more thought and effort to hustle it around corners. At the end of the day, it is designed for touring and does less well as a general purpose bike able to tackle the twisties or cope with general city traffic. That's why I am moving from an FJR to a B1250 to get a similar engine performance but without the bulk of a tourer. The Kawa is going to be similar to the FJR though it is likely to have another 10 hp and maybe be even heavier.
In the UK, if you have that sort of money, you look at BMW. I think in the US, BMWs are even dearer. However, I come back to my original point - the two bikes are different. If you want to mostly tour and want a fully kitted bike then maybe the Kawa is for you but at a significantly higher cost than a Bandit (and don't discount the FJR either). The Bandit 1250 is one hell of a lot of motorcycle for the money. The Kawa may well be one hell of a bike too (the styling is far too fussy for my taste anyway and looks like a pig to keep clean) but you are going to have pay a lot more for it and will represent nothing like the value-for-money that a B1250 represents.
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:clap:
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Well for those that missed it or miss it, here is a taste of the next technological leap forward in production motorcycling.
WARNING! The following video you are about to see may cause an epiphany between you and your current motorcycle, so please remain calm.
http://www.kellys-kawasaki.com/video/1400GTR-08_1_m.wmv
I wouldn't call it a leap forward myself. It's just Kawasaki's version of an FJR (that's been on the market for years now) with a slightly bigger engine and a bazooka for an exhaust pipe. What does that bike have that the FJR or BMW or Honda don't to make it a leap forward?
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:clap:
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CWO4GUNNER, you don't really believe in all that marketing stuff do you?
Let's wait and see what it will do on the roads and not what it says in the brochure.
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Gunner did a poor job by reciting ad jingo, the only things that mentioned was the radial mount calipers & inverted forks. (But then BMW's liter+ ST machines don't use conventional forks at all, they use either Telelever or Duolever.) The rest was all marketing hype.
The C14 does have a few things the FJR & BMW don't have:
Variable valve timing
Radial pump master cylinders for the front brakes & clutch
Keyless ignition switch (IMHO, kinda gimmicky - and could be spendy to replace if you ever loose the fob)
And somethings a BMW has, but the FJR doesn't:
>150 hp
6-speed gearbox
anti-shaft jacking linkage
Tire pressure monitoring ($260 option on the BMW)
If it's true the C14's price will be FJR-like, it'll be a tough competitor in it's niche... which is NOT the same niche as the Bandit, but many Bandit owners farkle their bikes in that direction. Many Bandit owners farkle their bikes in the hooligan bike direction, too. That's always been a beauty of the Bandit, it's a blank canvas to make it whatever you want, much like in the old days when all we got was a basic motorcycle and we tweaked them into what we wanted.
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Let's wait and see what it will do on the roads and not what it says in the brochure.
That's the first thing I'm waiting for - some magazine shootouts between the C14, FJR, ST13 & K12GT.
The second thing I'm waiting for is the first year models to get bought up and tested by the public to be sure there's no glaring, deal breaker, problems and if their are, how Kawi handles them.
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CWO4GUNNER, you don't really believe in all that marketing stuff do you?
I think he believes anything that supports whatever infatuation he has at the time... remember his GSX-R1000 thread? :roll:
Gunner did a poor job by reciting ad jingo, the only things that mentioned was the radial mount calipers & inverted forks. The rest was all marketing hype.
Well, who needs hard data when you have hype? :lol:
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If it's true the C14's price will be FJR-like, it'll be a tough competitor in it's niche... which is NOT the same niche as the Bandit, but many Bandit owners farkle their bikes in that direction. Many Bandit owners farkle their bikes in the hooligan bike direction, too. That's always been a beauty of the Bandit, it's a blank canvas to make it whatever you want, much like in the old days when all we got was a basic motorcycle and we tweaked them into what we wanted.
Exactly! :bigok:
In my case, I'm enhancing my B1250 in the sport-touring mode... with the empathis on SPORT. I prefer the lighter and less bulky soft luggage, but with the added comfort of a variable windscreen, handguards, and probably a lower fairing.
At the same time, I want the performance and handling that the chain drive and lighter weight gives, and the power & torque the new engine has.
I can get everything I want including the bike for well under $10K, and have a motorcycle that suits me perfectly.
BTW... I noticed DW at Holeshot achieved 172mph (indicated) on his B1250 with his slip-on, TFI and K&N airbox mod. That's only about $650 bucks worth of stuff.
Whaddya figure actual true MPH is... maybe 165? Not bad. :bigok:
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The C14 does have a few things the FJR & BMW don't have:
Variable valve timing
Radial pump master cylinders for the front brakes & clutch
Keyless ignition switch (IMHO, kinda gimmicky - and could be spendy to replace if you ever loose the fob)
And somethings a BMW has, but the FJR doesn't:
>150 hp
6-speed gearbox
anti-shaft jacking linkage
Tire pressure monitoring ($260 option on the BMW)
Thanks for that Paul. Isn't VVT effectively the same as Honda's V-TEC and don't VFR riders complain that they preferred the earlier non-V-TEC bikes? I'm not sure what radial pump master cyclinders are but it's not as if the brakes on other bikes are no good right now.
The FJR has 145 hp which isn't far off 150 hp and we all know that it's how it delivers its power and torque, not so much the amount - the B1250 is a good example of that. I'm not sure what the anti-shaft jacking linkage is going to bring in real terms and keyless ignition and tyre pressure monitoring are little farkles. I wouldn't classify any of this as being the 'great leap forward'.
Take the BMW K1200GT for example. Everybody seemed to rave about this super-powerful BMW tourer when it was announced and how it was going to re-define the sport-tourer category. In side-by-side tests with the ST1300, FJR and even BMW's own R1200RT, it sometimes wins, it sometimes loses and it could be any one of the Honda, Yamaha or BMW bikes that comes out on top simply because they all turn out to have weaknesses as well as strengths and they appeal to different people for different reasons. The K1200GT simply didn't turn out to be the category defining machine it was hyped up to be.
So, I take all the marketing hype and fancy names for the 'new' innovations with a pinch of salt and wait until it is compared with its peers on the road under real conditions and the OTR price taken into account.
BTW, something the FJR has but the BMW doesn't is the clutchless version. It's not everybody's cup of tea and I expect it to be more refined in later versions but it does appeal to some.
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The VFR's V-TEC is different that VVT. The VFR runs on two valves until the magic rpm when the other two open up. There's multiple reasons it's not so popular. One is the sudden change in character - like an old 2-stroke coming on the pipe. Another is the added difficulty in doing valve adjustments. I hear they're a major PIA. One more is they got rid of the gear driven cams and the music they made.
(The V-TEC Honda uses in their cars is VVT, IIRC.)
Radial master cylinders are the latest rage in sport-bikes and are supposed to be more compact and effecient. I don't know how they're more effecient, I don't think there's any breakthroughs in the physics of hydraulics.
There's certainly nothing earth shattering about the indiviual features of the C14, it's just putting a bunch of them in one package. How it all works together still remains to be seen. That's one reason I'm not running down to my Kawi dealer and putting a deposit down on one (and they are accepting them - only $99 holds one, unlike the $500 Yamaha wanted). Still looks good on paper/screen though.
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The consumers are always being lured by the latest in technoligy. Either new features,or more HP,more this or better that. The bike I have a itch for right now doesn't have any of that. Maybe I'll see one @ Mid OH vintage days this year.(not that I have the $ to buy right now) When I was a kid,my Dad had Triumphs. The earliest one I remember was a 500 with a lugage rack on the tank. I used to hold on to the rack when he'd take me for a ride.I loved the smell of the hot motor when he'd pull into the garage.
If I see one @ vintage days,thats for the right price,it will be tempting. It could be a project in the making.
Dan
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This GTR would be my ideal leap from the bandit. i sat on a FJR at the dealer while I was buying the Bandit...man they are awesome...but for 14 grand- I'll have to wait. I really didn't want to spend that kind of money to find out that a bike was a faze I was going though. If I have had the B1250 for a couple of years and I find I will be a lifetimer- the these "super tourer's" will definately be on my list!
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Hell, if I ever get too old and decrepit to ride my Bandit, or too lazy to lube my chain, AND I was going to spend big bucks on a touring bike, I'd just as soon get one of these:
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/ZenMan33/R1200RTl.jpg)
As long as we're posting hyped promotional blurbs:
"The new BMW R1200RT boasts optional Electronic Suspension Adjustment, giving you push-button fine-tuning for a wide range of roads, loads and moods. Cavernous storage, supreme ergonomics and optional accoutrements like heated grips, heated seats, a premium sound system and cruise control make the R 1200 RT so comfy, so easy to ride, that when you get away, you'll feel like you're getting away with something.
The R 1200 RT is a fully outfitted touring bike with royal ergonomics, on-the-fly adjustable suspension and a long list of comfort features, plus it's a downright exciting performance motorcycle. Its 110 horsepower low-center-of-gravity Boxer engine pulls smoothly and pops thrillingly, and its advanced chassis creates nimble handling usually reserved for short rides and sore shoulders. Ride as far as you want and get there with all the performance you crave with the R 1200 RT."
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q13/ZenMan33/R1200RTf.jpg)
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That BM is another bike I tried and discounted. Lovely finish, lost of gadgets and good looking but the engine seemed a bit wheezy, had to be wound up to make it go and sounds like a lawn mower at high revs. It just didn't excite me. I was happy to get back on my FJR. The Bandit 1250 is the only bike that gives a similar engine response to the FJR - smooth and plenty of pull in any gear - that's why I'm buying one.
There's a world of difference between what looks good in the showroom and living with one.
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Oh yeah, I agree with ya, D... the Beemer isn't near as exciting as our B1250's. I rode an '05 RT and had some of the same impressions as you.
All I'm saying is when/if I get up there in years, I might not care as much about speed and handling as I would comfort and ease of maintenance... and the R1200RT has that.
But I still have some adrenaline to use up for now, so it'll be a few years before I'm ready to settle into a 2-wheel recliner. :bandit:
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LOL, you know you're getting old when you just have to have a bike with heated seats. :lol:
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Sorry I just had to post this. The pricing is out and the OTD price will be MSRP at my warehouse dealership where I just bought my CRF450x.
Anyway read it and weep http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=220
FJR owners across the country are spiting up their coffee about now. :lol:
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:congrats: When will you get delivery?
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Have to wait until August for my C14 as this dealer has to wait on their large order of 50. I drove there 600 miles round after visiting my daughter (5 miles from her) and the dealer is nothing more then a warehouse and office. When I went to pick up my new Honda CRF450X for $6075 OTD I picked out 1 of about 30 that model alone. Here it is dusty after a ride, man is it awesome compared to my old DRZ. All I had to pay here in AZ was license ($12) no sales tax since already included in CA. The price on his C14 will be MSRP OTD, $800-$1200 less then any SW or local dealers.
(http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/13/004/2D/7A/90/DB/v2r6qPzOYJyEGIyEWtfpy1LlUty3sNLF0300.jpg)
:congrats: When will you get delivery?
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Sorry I just had to post this. The pricing is out and the OTD price will be MSRP at my warehouse dealership where I just bought my CRF450x.
Anyway read it and weep http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=220
FJR owners across the country are spiting up their coffee about now. :lol:
Now I have my Bandit 1250 I am revelling in the fact that I have superb performance from a big-engined bike that has the nimbleness and agility of a 600. It is such a big change from hauling my FJR around that I'm enjoying my biking much more. The GTR is very much in the FJR mould - big and heavy and though it might have plenty of power, it is only going to score for touring. When tackling the twisties or riding through town, I'm pleased to be on the Bandit rather than the FJR.
So, what I'm saying is that the GTR might have all the bells and whistles and looks good on paper but don't forget to consider what you want the bike to do. I had a big sport-tourer and while it was a great bike, it wasn't the best all-rounder. The new Bandit 1250 is a much better all-rounder (for me) and takes less effort to get more pleasure from.
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Thanks SteelD. I had be considering the FJR, but your post helped me to forget it. While it's a great bike with tons of power, I doubt it's a great all-around bike...like you said.
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Thanks SteelD. I had be considering the FJR, but your post helped me to forget it. While it's a great bike with tons of power, I doubt it's a great all-around bike...like you said.
Hey Frito..
I just replaced my B-12 with a FJR 1300 this year, and while the FJR is a who different animal than the Bandit, lets just say would not trade back!
The FJR is a bit heavy around town, but you get used to it.