Loud pipes DON'T saves lives

[txbanditrydr]

The B12 stock must have a carb/exhaust/airbox modification to run right.

I respectfully disagree....  not sure of your clinical definition of "running" right" is but the word "must" is an absolute that simply does not apply.  Regardless, there are quiet high performance exhaust systems available if one feels that noise is an issue.  

While proof that loud pipes DON'T save lives hasn't been offered up here there is a lack of credible proof that loud pipes DO save lives.  FWIW, I hate loud obnoxious pipes in the wrong setting.  Blipping the throttle on a set of open pipes at a stop sign in the middle of some small touristy town irritates the heck out of me....  there is no reason (other than self-indulgence) for that crap.  One the other hand, what a sweet sound the race bikes were making at Barber a couple of weeks ago.  A lot has to do with your immediate surroundings.  

Overall, noise is a huge issue right now.  The US government IS GETTING INVOLVED IN REGULATING NOISE AS WE TYPE.  Even to the point of telling you what you can do on YOUR OWN PROPERTY!!!!   That my fellow Bandito's is downright scary.  The model airplane hobby as taken a huge hit due to the same thing.  Sound measurement inspections are already in place in some locales.   As always, if we don't police ourselves someone will do it for us.

[Red01]

They are primarily audible from the rear and sides.  A driver directly behind a loud-pipe dork will already SEE him (duh).  The drivers getting ready to cut across the loud-pipe dork will never hear him unless his pipes are facing FORWARD.  Loud pipes are juvenile noise-makers that are designed to entertain immature riders and annoy other people.

Spending money on rider training and high-visibility gear is a far better investment in your personal safety.  Unless you really, really think that the hooligans from Mad Max were "cool."

Are you seriously trying to convince us that sound only travels in one direction? Or in a 180 degree direction?
That simply defies common physics. Even something as simple as the Doppler effect allows for continuing to hear a sound after it passes you.
(Yes - I do know that the doppler effect is based on a sound moving toward you at a speed. So please don't try to tell me that I don't even understand that.)

I think everyone here agrees that Loud - straight - unbaffled pipes are obnoxious.

As audiophiles know, the lower the frequency of the sound, the more omnidirectional it is. That's why sub-woffer placement in relation to the listener is not very important, but where the tweeters are is very important. Big V-twins' exhaust notes travel almost as well forward as they do out the exhaust tip. OTOH, since the higher the frequency, the more directional it becomes, an in-line fours' exhaust notes don't travel nearly as well forward as they do out the tip. You can still hear the four coming, but you won't hear it as soon as the V-twin. This was obvious this weekend when I was watching Superbike races and you could hear the Ducatis coming before they were even in the camera's view, but oftentimes, you didn't hear the Japanese bikes coming straight at the camera until they were close.

Here's an experiment for you: Go to the airport, a busy one works best. Position yourself as close to the approach end of the runway as the law will allow. Take note of when you can first hear a jetliner coming in. Then take note of when you can first hear a plane with two or more radial engines. Which one did you hear first?

IMHO, (ie; I have no facts to back it up), loud pipes do very little to save lives. Sure, there's a possibility they might have saved a few riders from death by spaced out cager, but I don't think of them as a safety device. I DO like the sound of a high performance engine, and I do put louder than stock exausts on my gas powered toys. I DON'T run straight pipes, or choose a system just because it's the loudest I can find. One thing I have learned over the years is an extremely loud set up will wear on MY nerves, too - as well as cause hearing loss. I bought my can (a Holeshot, in the quiet 17" version) for the performance AND the sound, but I never considered its purchase as safety related. I did consider that keeping the sound at a reasonable level might keep me from being noticed by those folks in uniforms that hand out performance awards - you know, the ones that give you the privelidge to contribute to the state coffers.

[deepink]

Hey Red - You got my vote. There is no way I would consider an aftermarket pipe a saftey device, either.  But I would think that because I, you, and many others have one, they do not deserve to be lumped in with the straight pipe using V-twin bikers.  Or, for that matter, be called idiots and dorks.  Just my HO.[/quote]

[mike]

Just my HO.

OK, I give up,,,  who's your HO ?  Is she a hottie, pics please !!  

[jlmoulto]

Perhaps, someone can explain to me why loud pipes and not loud horns?

A much cheaper solution would be to affix an airhorn to your bike and have it rigged to go off constantly or perhaps in 1 second bursts.  Why stop there?  We could install multiple units and still be way cheaper than purchasing new pipes.  In fact we could even install sensors for the horns to go off when an "object" approaches within x distance of motorcycle from any side.

After all, the only reason for the loud pipes is safety (not the "I want to sound really bad" concept)  Right?

[Desolation Angel]

...
After all, the only reason for the loud pipes is safety (not the "I want to sound really bad" concept)  Right?

Yeah, that's right!  

[deepink]

Finally - someone figured it out.

Oh yeah - I don't share pics of my HO!  Although if she knew I called her my HO, she would probably become someone else's soon after that.

[mike]

I want a WHOOOGAAWW !  marine fog horn...


but for safety's sake I guess an ambulance siren will do...  and maybe a single spinning emergency flasher under the headlight.

It's quite obvious the majority here feel that loud exhausts are a annoying (outweighing any safety consideration), whether it be on cars, bikes, or even the gas weedeater next door.


This thread should have been a POLL, not a post.

In fact, I'm gonna do just that..

[mike]

VOTE HERE---> http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?p=40825

[stormi]

As audiophiles know, the lower the frequency of the sound, the more omnidirectional it is. That's why sub-woffer placement in relation to the listener is not very important, but where the tweeters are is very important. Big V-twins' exhaust notes travel almost as well forward as they do out the exhaust tip. OTOH, since the higher the frequency, the more directional it becomes, an in-line fours' exhaust notes don't travel nearly as well forward as they do out the tip. You can still hear the four coming, but you won't hear it as soon as the V-twin. This was obvious this weekend when I was watching Superbike races and you could hear the Ducatis coming before they were even in the camera's view, but oftentimes, you didn't hear the Japanese bikes coming straight at the camera until they were close.

This is widely talked about on some of the motocross forums. The big 4 stroke bikes ( that have a much deeper exhaust note) can be heard for -miles-.  In fact, so much more so, that some tracks are fighting to stay open because of complaints about noise, even though those tracks ( previously mostly poulated by 2-strokes) have been open for years and without or at least with much much fewer complaints.  (You'll never please everyone, right?)  

There are concerns about the MX industry being damaged because of these loud bikes ( which of course generates tons of opposition, just like this thread.)

I ride both on the street and dirt.  When I was looking for a "bigger" bike, to replace my TTR125L, I said no to the 2-strokes initially, because I hate the high pitched scream that they have.  Then I went to an indoor arenacross ( like the supercross that was discussed here a few days ago), and noticed that the sound of the 4 strokes, that I could hear, no matter what direction they were travelling in, made me ill.  Physically ill - to be in the room with.  The really low bass of the (mainly modified) four stroke exhaust was what did it.

It took me some time to figure out what it was. I thought it was the sickeningly sweet smell of race gas ( that didn't help though), or the fumes in general.  Then I noticed that in the races and heats with no 4 strokes, that I didn't feel like that.  Then, in the pits ( because my other half was racing) one of the big thumpers was fired up right beside me.  It was almost instantaneous.  I had to leave the pits.

On a two-stroke, if you're in front of the pipe, with a helmet on, it's not so loud. The same would be true of the street exhaust.  The high pitches, would die off quickly, and the noise is certainly louder behind than in front, but the lower pitch, will carry, and in all directions.

The other thing to remember, is that a helmet will dampen a lot of sound that many people hear, because they don't wear helmets in their cages, or while waiting for the bus, or.... The full volume of the exhaust at full scream, should technically never be heard by the rider.  

That said, I will refrain from adding my opinion on whether loud pipes save lives or  just tick people off.

[jbrough7]

VOTE HERE---> http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?p=40825

Shouldn't there be a tweener for us guys that want to sit on the fence??

Jim

[B6mick]

               

The wording of the vote is very very wrong in my view. And I don’t think you have given the question in whether or not, that loud pipes do and can save lives or loud pipes don’t and can not save lives.

I personally have never, stated that a loud exhaust is or should be used as a safety devise.
I have however stated that there is in fact a more realistic chance that loud pipes will however, contribute in some cases to saving lives, thus contradicting the statement that loud pipes do not save lives.

Boy oh boy, not one reasonable, factual, creditable argument, to support the theory that, “Loud Pipes Do Not Save Lives”
If you could have only stuck to the debate issue, instead of changing into something that no one, actually said, “That loud pipes should be used as a safety devise.” other than those against loud pipes.
So go on delete the poll and start it again. Reword it the spirit of the debate.
Remembering that the opening header to this debate was in fact.
LOUD PIPES DON”T SAVE LIVES.
To this we have both, pros and cons.
So I would have thought the wording to the poll questions, would have been along these lines.
“Do you agree that loud pipes do not and can not contribute to saving lives?”
Or
“Do you agree that loud pipes do and can contribute in saving lives?”

And for the fence sitters

I do not give a toss, and could not give a rats ass, about either argument.

And another for those who don't care, they just hate noisey bikes, cars, planes, boats, kids, parties, or poeple having a life with a little bit of noisey fun.

[jbrough7]

How about - NIMBY - as another alternative....

Jim

[mike]

Vote True or False (yes or no).  You either believe loud pipes contribute to safety or they don't.  Very simple.  Saving or not saving lives is a safety issue, sorry if you didn't like the wording. But safety and saving lives my friend are one in the same.  If you don't have an opinion either way, simply don't vote, as in your number does not affect the outcome.  If you don't like the wording, simply don't vote.  Too many people have participated thus far for me to change it. If you would have caught it early, we could have changed it.  But, I'm not gonna change it now, and expect people to vote yet again, as this would be the 3rd time this subject has come up.  Isn't it about time to let it go by now.  You can't whip a dead horse, let it go and feel happy and secure that you had a chance to voice your opinion with confidence.

I am sorry this whole issue is hard for you to live with, Mick.  But you cannot force people to agree with you, everyone has a choice, that's the nice thing about living in a free society.  I'm sorry, but this is not Germany, it's not 1940, and you're not Adolf Hitler.

This is my only issue with this subject. I can accept everyone's opinion, but have a hard time watching someone try to force agreement to their opinion down everyone's throat.

You can rant all you want, and I never have nor never will try to stop you.  This is what we call free speech in a free society, if you forgot.
 
Now I am using my free choice to exit this controversy, it's finished for me.
Peace out Bro,

Mike :)

[jlmoulto]

That's because that noisy fun is just that to them...irritating, grating, useless, needess, mind numbing, ear damaging noise for the sake of making noise.  No other reason.  

In my efforts to be more safety conscious, I noticed that when towing a load of horse manure in my truck, cars would give me a wide berth.  I like the smell of horse manure, seeing as I spent most of my teenage years in a barn, alone with those lovely animals....but I digress.  Of course my scientific mind thought, there must be an application that I can make of this to my motorcycle!!!  I set out and developed an attachment to my top case(patent pending).  I discovered that the smell eminated ominidirectionally and anytime I needed to modify the pile I could simply adjusted the mixture by opening the air inlet.  It was also effective when I increased the jets.  This scientific experiment leads me to unequivocally state that carrying horse shit saves lives. </sarcasm>


I have yet to have seen one single, legitimate study that supports the idea that loud pipes save lives.  Show me one, even half a study, and I'll consider changing my stand.  What I do know, is that I have never met an individual with loud pipes that has them there solely for the "safety" factor.  They want to sound cool and badass.  Probably are compensating, and certainly trying to look a lot different from their daily accountant job.

The thing is that the final say will be made by the public not motorcyclists.  When the wrong person is pissed off, you will see the laws develop.  What is sad is that a perfectly legitimate sport, will be more severely restricted simply by the actions of those who most want to participate in the sport.  Don't think that will happen?  It already is.