Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: Bazza on April 27, 2006, 02:30:21 AM
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An interesting and proven article.
http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/pages/safety/safety40.htm
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Sorry Bazza gotta disagree again.
And the 1st paragraph of the article you send us says this....and I quote
"All other things being equal, a loud motorcycle probably gets more attention than a quiet one, but at what cost? Is this good attention or bad attention? Let's think about this"
Any attention, as I have argued before has got to be betta than none at all.
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+1 b6
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Oh I dunno. Lets for discussion, say the bike is too loud causing the car driver to get pissed off at the rider for beng a sound pollutant, then proceeds to get dstracted from their larger picture driving focus. So now we're in a situaition more dangerous (lsay on a crouded freeway) where the car driver is distracted from the vehicles around it and is predestined to focus on the noise pollution instead of the entire taffic picture.
I would rather get noticed, not necessarily become a distraction to the driver, which could have snowball effect with other vehicles distracting their attention from the big picture.
I think the article is just saying the typical loud straight pipe V-twins or the crotch rockets with track exhausts are bad after a certain point, They become a distraction instead of a positive attention getter. I think it's more up to the rider to get the right kinda of attention, than his loud exhaust notes.
Another typical example of this driver behavior would be: You've seen it happen when an ambulance siren approaches, the cars start searching for the source of the siren, rather than concentrate on pulling to the side of the road cautiously.
It's OK to have varying opinions on the subject, but your statement is a little closed minded or one sided. Open your mind to main idea in the article; it's been around for a long time and has more than just one side for consideration.
.02
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I going to sit on the fence on this.....
I agree that louder than standard exhausts do provide motorcyclists with a better chance of being noticed and therefore avoided.....
Case in point, I have far more trouble with cage drivers doing silly things around me than the Treasurer does.....the main reason is (and I've actually had people who aren't bikers tell me this) that they can actually hear her M750 with Staintunes (nil by baffles) whereas with my bog standard, straight out of the crate, ADR compliant bike can't be heard over a moped
However, I do agree that EXTREMELY LOUD pipes do cause a distraction to the cage drives, giving them more to think about than their small under developed brains can handle....
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Without opening another can of worms about helmets or no helmets.
We all agree that helmets do in fact save lives.
I hope we are all open minded enough, to know under some circumstances helmets kill riders, that If in fact hadn’t been wearing a helmet would of walked away from the scene of the accident with minor injuries.
Now we go on wearing our lids as required by law, knowing if by the wrong circumstances come your way it’s gonna kill us. But we argue that if helmet use, saves 100 and takes 1 it’s a small but acceptable ratio.
My argument is loud pipes do save lives, and I’m not standing up on my soapbox telling everyone that you all must have loud pipes, in fact far from it. But what I am saying is by my own experience as a professional rider, courier, that loud pipes whether they attract a negative reaction from drivers or a positive reaction, at least the driver is aware of my presence. And as with acceptable ratios if loud pipes save just 1 rider in the world per year, that’s one less needless death, of a friend, father, mother, brother, sister, son, or daughter.
As I have stated in previous threads about loud pipes, there is not statistics on near misses, and no numbers on real, accident being averted by the fact a driver has become aware at the last moment of a riders presence because of load pipes. So all I have to go by is my over 1 million miles and 30 years in the saddle experience. And that tells me loud pipes do in fact save lives, and drivers on my road side tops, tell me so. That’s no university study, that’s no academic cod’s wallop, that’s no scientific study, that’s out there in the real world experience.
"Gee mate I didn't see ya coming but I heard ya"
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Very well said guys.. Every scenario has multiple sides, intelligent/successful problem solvers consider all their options... That was really my point... One sided viewpoints always seem extremely biased to me, yall did a good job explaining the differnt sides to be considered on the load exahust subject-very valid points and exampes for both sides.
:beers: :bigok:
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Thankyou Sir, may I be let out of school early......... :stickpoke:
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:lol: Do you have a signed letter from your doctor ? :lol: :beers:
The school nurse is free if you just need a Tylenol... :duh: "Oh, my HEAD>>> :duh: That load bike has given me a migraine." :motorsmile:
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No
Not until you have presented a 500 word statement on how you feel about load pipes young man. :stickpoke:
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Oh but Sir, I do want to go and ride my nice, quiet, sensible, non-offensive B12.....I promise Sir....I'll only ride the Treasurers nasty, noisy, over the top M750 on the weekend....oh please sir
Even if I say so myself.....
:downhill:
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OK, I know I'll get flamed, but what the h$ll! Loud pipes? Hate them. Very obnoxious. Now, that said, I have seldom experienced these except on Harleys. Personally, I don't mind a moderate increase in sound that aftermarket cans get you for our bikes, but with mine, Holeshot, only a bit of rumble is added at normal throttle levels. It only gets LOUD if I really want it to!
If it were legal, the next time a Harley rider blipped his throttle in my ear at a stoplight, I would shoot him in the head! :stop: :roll: And when one drives by my house doing the speed limit and I can hear him over my television in the far back room, well, I get to shoot him for that, too. And when it's between 10:00 PM and 8:00 AM, I get to torture him before I kill him. If I'm in my yard or on the road and I think I'm getting machine gunned, then I get to react accordingly!
(http://www.magnumresearch.com/products/DE_MattBlack_t.jpg)
All things in moderation. Don't offend everyone around you because you want people to think you have a drag racer! You don't. Everyone knows you don't. Quit pretending. You're an adult, not a child.
Thank you. :bigok:
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Sorry I keep coming back but this statement is total bullshyte and I quote
"Hell, a $30.00 reflective safety vest will save your biscuit a thousand times before that four-into-one will." What a load of cod's wallop.
And yes I have tried the reflective Day-Glo orange jacket.
I trialed them for the courier company I worked for. Now remembering I was on the road 12 to 14 hrs per day 5 days a week
And I would actually ask drivers that cut me off, pulled out in front of me, and all the shyteful things that car drivers do.
They 99% of the time stated, and I quote “Sorry mate I didn't see you", and your standing there asking what part didn't they see. The headlight on, the white helmet with reflective crap all over it, the orange Day-Glo reflective jacket. It’s a bit like leading a horse to water, but you can not make the F*#*er drink it. Of course you didn't see me you twat, you didn't F*#*en look. If he at least hears you he might then look.
Again these conclusions are not made in uni, or by some brain trust, these are real world facts. The reflective jacket did not reduce the number of near misses I had per week in the 6 months I trialed the jackets. The company I worked for did not invest in supplying the rest of the fleet with them either. People who publish such dribble like the one Bazza has point us to, must either not ride or live in the real world or are to busy do Gooding, to see though the total crap that they are writing about.
I ask where is his stats, on how Day-Glo jackets will reduce accidents are.
Because my stats, sourced from the real world of motorcycling, me, prove his theory wrong and give clear reasons why. Now don't get me wrong I ain't hanging shyte on anyone who chooses to wear Day-Glo reflective jackets, if it makes you feel safer, so be it, in fact I will argue black and blue thats its your bloody right to do so. And I will not preach to you not too. I’m sorry, if I have very little time for F*#*wits when they preach to me that a orange Day-Glo jacket is going to do more for my safety, than a loud 4 into 1 system.
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Load pipes annoy neighbors, wake up little children you've spent hours trying to put to sleep, will probably scare the shit out of senior citizens into a heart attack (maybe not such a bad thing, one less bluehair :-), and identifies you as VERY sophomoric.
And, all other things are NEVER equal...
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I'm against obnoxiously loud pipes. This may be do to the fact we have a ton of Harley/custom chopper knuckleheads running around with straight pipes. They love to ride these thru town and around parks annoying the heck out of everyone. A good defensive rider on a quiet bike will fare just as well or better as a mufflerless moron.
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I am one of those people that will probably be arrested for taking a shotgun to one of the A-holes that rides his straight-piped Harley past my house. Those mo-fos are so loud they kill sparrows & stun low flying ducks.
That being said... I have a Yosh pipe.
It can be whisper quiet when I want - but if I get stuck in a cager's blind spot on the highway - I can blip the throttle and get his attention... make him know I'm there. That's the only instance I've found where noise helps.
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I have an idea. Tomorrow I'll twist my pipe to point forward. Let'em all ahead of me hear that I am coming! :)
Vadim
Btw, I find that at high RPMs my engine makes a lot more noise than my stock pipe. And IMO, I wouldn't want anything louder under my butt anyway.
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Has anybody ever started their bike with open headers ? I did when I nstalled my Holeshot 17", talk about loud. My little cousin was watching me do the pipe install in 2001. I started it with open headers and gave the throttle a whack. When I turned around he was running toward the house. I went inside, my mom bitched me out becuase I made him cry; and said he would have nightmares. Boy, I got a chuckle out of that one, not in fornt of them though...
Usually with my Holeshot 17" comp, when I rolled into my drive I was running quiet low rpms no engine load, you could barely know I arrived home, it was real quiet in those conditions.
My brother on the other hand ran staright pipes on his V-Star twin, and even at low rpm I could hear that headache coming a 2 blocks away. But, he was a notorious idiot, liked letting everyone know his bike was loud, so he loaded the engine coming down the street.
We both also had GM model trucks. Mine was stock exhaust, his was dual with glasspacks. And he didn't do it for performance, just noise-because he had stock exhaust manifold (no headers) and no remap on the fuel injection. Just a noise maker, like his bike. And he never would line up with me, even though he constantly said his bike had more CC's. Secretly, he knew who had the better performing machine but wouldn't own up to it in front of people or admit it to me. He never would put his money where hs mouth was, even when I offered to give him 5 lengths and said I wouldn't go beyond 3rd gear and would pass him in 2nd.
I can understand the noise some aftermarket exhausts make, its the price you pay to open up the airflow for performance.
But, I cannot understand or agree with anyone doing a mod strictly to make noise. I t makes no sense and just proves how ignorant and ego based you are (you have to be noticed, plain and simple ego).
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I have an idea. Tomorrow I'll twist my pipe to point forward...
:shock: Hmm, that sounds like an OCC modification! :stickpoke:
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I just put a small, 14" Holeshot Performance can on my 1200S,.......and yes, its a loud one. To do it over agin I'd likely buy the 17" and quiet it down a few Db's,......but I personally enjoy the howl !!
But my opinion after owning 13 or so bikes with many different pipes on them is that loud does not save lives in and of itself. It may make someone feel like they are being noticed, and it may actually do that from time to time, but the reality is simple,...
If you get into a wreck and its your fault, then you know what to do next time.
If you get into a wreck and it was their fault,........It's STILL your fault. You have to ride as though nobody sees you, hears you, or notices that you exist. YOU have to take the responsibility for avoiding death. Look, listen, watch closely where they are looking, what they are doing, if they are on a cell phone, etc. You are the best defense. Not the pipe.
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I came about 6 inches from getting smoked by a girl on her cell phone backing out of her driveway yesterday. I was watching her to see when she'd glance my way and start slowing down, but it didn't happen until she was mostly in the road and the horn was blaring at her. Oh, and i was in a cage, not even a motorcycle. Could've been the space shuttle and she wouldn't have seen me.
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If you get into a wreck and it was their fault,........It's STILL your fault. You have to ride as though nobody sees you, hears you, or notices that you exist. YOU have to take the responsibility for avoiding death.
That's what I tell all new riders. Almost EVERY motorcycle accident should be looked at as the biker's fault. There's plenty of dead motorcyclists who had the right-of-way.
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:clap:
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I've got stock pipes that are so quiet I hardly know the thing is running. Some neighbours down the street have Harleys with some kind of BRRRPPP pipes. I dunno - they're not for me, but I kinda like hearing them and then watching the guys go by. I suppose if we shared a duplex those pipes would drive me crazy.
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I've got stock pipes that are so quiet I hardly know the thing is running. Some neighbours down the street have Harleys with some kind of BRRRPPP pipes. I dunno - they're not for me, but I kinda like hearing them and then watching the guys go by. I suppose if we shared a duplex those pipes would drive me crazy.
When your warranty runs out try a Holeshot. I'm likin' 'em.
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I have an idea. Tomorrow I'll twist my pipe to point forward...
:shock: Hmm, that sounds like an OCC modification! :stickpoke:
No way.
If it was from OCC, it would have been an "ide-ar".
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If you get into a wreck and its your fault, then you know what to do next time.
If you get into a wreck and it was their fault,........It's STILL your fault. You have to ride as though nobody sees you, hears you, or notices that you exist. YOU have to take the responsibility for avoiding death. Look, listen, watch closely where they are looking, what they are doing, if they are on a cell phone, etc. You are the best defense. Not the pipe.
I agree in part, with your statement, but I feel you’re a bit harsh in the statement that any motorcycle car, truck, bus collision, is always the motorcyclist fault.
I agree that that one can limit, the possibilities of collisions, and have proved this theory, and in fact, practiced it. But even so we as motorcyclists, are unable to control, or anticipate, all reactions, counter reactions, or abilities of our fellow road users, or the changing environment in which we are riding in.
Your statements, would be however quite correct in the perfect world with perfect fellow road users, and ourselves being perfect riders within a perfect riding environment.
But unfortunately none of the last sentence is fact; in fact it’s totally fictional and will always remain so. Whilst any human control, is involved with the operation of any mechanical devise, there is going to be unintentional accidents. Now, that is a proven scientific fact.
Yes it is up to us the motorcyclist to lesson the risks, by defensive riding techniques,
And as I have previously stated, if one feels that Hi-Vis jackets make you feel that risks factors are being reduced so be it, do so.
I feel that the dynamics of sound also help reduce the risk.
And I do not need, as suggested, to face my pipes forward :duh: , as I well know that low frequency sound waves travel in all directions from its point of origin almost equally unlike, high frequency sound waves. Hence why people riding in front of me, can hear me coming even when I’m 10 or so bike lengths behind them. (Right Aussie? :motorsmile: )
Proven theory. Next time that huge assed V Twin comes on by, upsetting some to the point of wishing to commit murder :shock: , ( Which in its self is a worrying factor, just maybe professional help should be sort, in the form of anger management :stickpoke: ), sit back for a second before flying into rage, is it fact, you can hear it coming. Or is it, your huge assed V Twins are breaking the speed of sound? :congrats:
You know, people that are continually bitching about noise pollution, have me wondering, and is it, that they have nothing better to do. We here where I live have been laughing for years about just such people. They buy cheap assed houses, adjoining an airport which has been there since Jesus was a lad. These people are now claiming that the airport needs to be shut down, because they can not get a good nights sleep. Even now there are cases before the courts claiming damages against the airports operators, for all sorts of mental and medical aliments. Surely there is the need for far greater attention, on other environmental issues that in fact, are killing people, causing cancer, and other very nasty diseases, not those that are just a momentary source of nuisance. :boohoo:
And to further strengthen my argument,
Visual perception is at best approximately 180 degrees across the axis of the eyes.
Audible perception is a full 360 degrees across the axis of the ears.
There we go, we are actually producing facts and proven theories.
Where the hell are any, other than unequivocal dribble and farcical facts from those who would have us believe that loud pipes don’t save lives? None, other than hearsay and at best, half truths.
Piss poor effort guys.
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I'd just chalk it up to personal opinion, mick... Everyone's gonna have one, doubt it's a debate that'll ever be won or lost. not really worth workin' up a sweat on.. that's the way I see it anyways...
Mike :)
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They are no more annoying than a screaming, whiny child in a restaurant, or some dickweed with his cell phone ringer volume turned up to the highest level, playing some shitty rap song in the middle of a theater.
It's all relative, guys. We all get over crying babies and cell phone ringers. Get over the sound of loud pipes. We will always have people forcing their ways, thoughts, sounds, and such into our lives. Cell phones have proven that.
How many times have you heard someone on their cell taling about their last colonoscopy, or who died, or "I totally can't believe you went home with that super hot guy last night." And yes I said heard - not overheard. Because the person could care less who else is around. Yes, I want to take the cell phone (or that stupid cyborg looking head gear they have on), rip it off their ear and shove it up their rear ends, but I don't.
Just like they don't sit around on the RAZR forum (if there is one) and talk about whether or not it is responsible to talk as load as they can on their phone in public.
Just as I doubt the people with screaming babies get on their forums and bitch and moan about each side of their story. I can see it now :
OMG this lady gave me the evil eye at Crackerbarrel the other day because little (insert yuppie baby name here) was throwing a fit. She should just get over it because I'm gonna let my baby cry as loud as she wants whenever she want.
Are you serious! That is so Rooooooood (Rude). I can't belive you are not more responsible with your children when you go out to eat. That is a privilage - you are lucky they didn't kick you out with those screaming kids. How obnoxious.
Of course, that's my little opinion. This topic has been beat to death - just like the guy at the theater with the loud ringer.
Oh yeah - and here is my disclaimer -
I happen to have a loud pipe
(when I want it to be - out on the highway or track, not in my neighborhood).
I happen to have a screming baby with one on the way
(but he doesn't go to restaurants - because he's not old enough to eat all that junk food, and McDonald's crap food will be the only restaurant they go to until they are 5, and I know they will act appropriately)
And I use a Blackberry phone/PDA for business and personal use, and I leave it in the car when I go to a movie.
With that said - start bashing me left and right for my thoughts and opinions. HeHeHeHeHe.
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Hey, if you like loud pipes, or any other loud noise, then by all means have them! I support everyone's right to own them, but maybe take a peek at where you live? Live in the sticks...loud pipes cool. Live in a neighborhood with houses everywhere and near the street...loud pipes rude.
I'm not picking on just bikes. When that '69 Mach I or whatever it is blasts by with its 450 cu. in. engine and glasspacks, why, I want to shoot them, too! :lol:
Equality for all under my law!
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Here, Here!
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Loud pipes=annoying immature idiocy.
Do you guys really think that some blue-hair is driving along with her husband and says "Earle! I hear a motorcycle! Keep an eye out for him - let's be real careful." Bull. Loud pipes are an annoyance. You loud pipe guys annoy the non-riding public and you annoy me. You inspire no end of emnity toward motorcyclists in general with your silly loud fart-sounding pipes. I fully support law enforcement efforts to clamp down on your idiotic noise-makers.
Max
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Yes opinions are like assholes everyone’s got one. :monkeymoon:
You know Mike, I’m not actually working up a sweat over opinions, in fact its bloody hard here at the moment to get up a sweat full stop, good old Melb weather has us rained in for the last 3 days, :crybaby: the bikes are polished, the shed is spotless, and as for the cable Television, well 143 channels of total shyte to choose from, so crossing swords, with anyone over the subject of whether of not, loud pipes save lives, has actually been about the only thing that has kept me amused and sane over the past 3 days.
But having just said that, every one would know I am passionate about my motorcycling,
and an advocate for making it safer. However I will not idlely sit back at let, dribble such as that, which has been presented to us at Bandit Alley, which within its very first sentence, contradicts its whole argument against loud pipes. (Once again, :stickpoke: hey Pete)
I don’t know about how things are done in your respective countries, but down here, politicians aids, search the web for places like Bandit Alley, to use such dribble, whether the dribble is actually factual, truthful, or has any creditable value, if it falls into the agenda that is being pursued they will use it. And further more if no-one stands up and points out the untruths, the flaws in the theories, and that so called facts are nothing more than someone’s, misinformed, uneducated opinion, such articles will be, and have been used against us.
Yes I admit there is a few among us the motorcycling fraternity, for the want of a better word, I shall call them 1%ers. Yes some of them ride really really loud bikes. But surely this is nothing more than a momentary nuisance factor, should we let governments stop us from modifying our bikes, in order to make it run better than it would and does when it comes from the factory. Well folks it’s high time that you put things back into some sort of perspective, because dribble like the one, claiming loud pipes don’t save lives, is going to have a direct impact on you, me, and every other motorcyclist. And are the 1%ers going to take any notice? Forgive me for answering my own question, No. So all that the article stating that loud pipes do not save lives, will do is impact on those, who don’t wish to ride on a bike that, at best can be out noised by the farts, at the local beans and chilly dinner.
One should maybe look at the loud 1%er as in actual fact our best friend, because while the law, and the EPA is out hassling them, they are leaving us alone. :bigok:
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Do you guys really think that some blue-hair is driving along with her husband and says "Earle! I hear a motorcycle! Keep an eye out for him - let's be real careful."
Max
Maybe not, but Earle might just be happy for, 1 second maybe 2, that the blue-hairs nagging voice has been mometaryly muffled. :crackattack:
BTW Max, do you have you at least a theory, on why loud pipes don’t save lives. If so I would love to read it. No I didn't think so.
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I've said it before on this topic, I think louder than stock pipes help with being notice, but un-baffled straight thru pipes tend to be a bit too loud...
However, what I find more annoying than loud pipes, on bikes, cars or trucks, is that damn DOOF DOOF music the teenagers play so loud that you have no hope of hearing anything else.....that's obscene, dangerous, unpleasant and just plain WRONG....
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I'm withya there Aussie ! :lol: :lol:
(http://www.patrickastrid.nl/Boom_Boom_Box.jpg)
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I've said it before on this topic, I think louder than stock pipes help with being notice, but un-baffled straight thru pipes tend to be a bit too loud...
However, what I find more annoying than loud pipes, on bikes, cars or trucks, is that damn DOOF DOOF music the teenagers play so loud that you have no hope of hearing anything else.....that's obscene, dangerous, unpleasant and just plain WRONG....
Don't tell me you have the U.S. style depressed inner city ethno hip hop rap crap trash down under! :shock: I figured only WE suffered with that garbage.
If so, let me personally apologize on behalf of most of us normal folks for that disease spreading across the ocean. We don't get it, either.
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The only thing I can be thankful for, is that my teenage son doesn't listen that crap. He listens to some other crap, that sounds sort of familar, sort of like Sex Pistols, but LOUDER and RUDER....
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If you get into a wreck and its your fault, then you know what to do next time.
If you get into a wreck and it was their fault,........It's STILL your fault. You have to ride as though nobody sees you, hears you, or notices that you exist. YOU have to take the responsibility for avoiding death. Look, listen, watch closely where they are looking, what they are doing, if they are on a cell phone, etc. You are the best defense. Not the pipe.
I agree in part, with your statement, but I feel you’re a bit harsh in the statement that any motorcycle car, truck, bus collision, is always the motorcyclist fault.
I agree that that one can limit, the possibilities of collisions, and have proved this theory, and in fact, practiced it. But even so we as motorcyclists, are unable to control, or anticipate, all reactions, counter reactions, or abilities of our fellow road users, or the changing environment in which we are riding in.
Your statements, would be however quite correct in the perfect world with perfect fellow road users, and ourselves being perfect riders within a perfect riding environment.
================================
My words are not intended to be taken literally sir. There are certainly times when the wreck was someone else's fault. To think otherwise would be devoid of rationalle'.
My words ARE intended to encourage riders to take personal responsibility for their own safety.
A loud pipe in other words,...may be fun, aurally exciting, ego boosting, and in some instances, alerting to another driver/rider,....but they are also a poor substitute for a watchful eye, an engaged mind, open ears, and the assumption that they do NOT see or hear you.
I fear that placing trust, to any major degree, in the sound of a loud pipe to alert drivers of my presence, also lessens proportionately, the amount of personal attention I am paying to the [ever changing] conditions around me.
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B6mick
Is your government really that bad? They can place restrictions on motorcycle modding based on conversations in a forum?
:shock:
No wonder we have immigration problems.
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They are primarily audible from the rear and sides. A driver directly behind a loud-pipe dork will already SEE him (duh). The drivers getting ready to cut across the loud-pipe dork will never hear him unless his pipes are facing FORWARD. Loud pipes are juvenile noise-makers that are designed to entertain immature riders and annoy other people.
Spending money on rider training and high-visibility gear is a far better investment in your personal safety. Unless you really, really think that the hooligans from Mad Max were "cool."
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Are you seriously trying to convince us that sound only travels in one direction? Or in a 180 degree direction?
That simply defies common physics. Even something as simple as the Doppler effect allows for continuing to hear a sound after it passes you.
(Yes - I do know that the doppler effect is based on a sound moving toward you at a speed. So please don't try to tell me that I don't even understand that.)
I think everyone here agrees that Loud - straight - unbaffled pipes are obnoxious.
I also agree that you have to be even more aware of the blue-hair driving in front of you with her perpetual turn signal telling us she is turning left, even when she is in the left most lane. But to call people with aftermarket pipes on their motorcycles idiots and dorks is just plain rude. Almost just as obnoxious as the loud pipe themselves.
Why does everyone have to take this discussion so personal? I should probably go back and check my other posts - but I don't remember calling people here idiots.
Leave it to a 7 time poster to join a forum, with so much useful information available, to start name calling. Oh well.
I Love my modified bike, and if I saw his unmodified one, would like it too, because I like that you can personalize the motorcycle to your liking.
Cheers!
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:clap:
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YO....BACK WHEN I WAS CHILLIN N KILLIN.
I GOTS MY SHIZZON SCOOTER CLUB AND WE
THOUGHT WE WAS THE SHIZOLIZ,
BUT I AIN'T RIDIN SCOOT LIKE YODEEZE BADD-ASS BOYZ !
DIS BROTHA WID DA NO PIPE EXHAUST, BOYYYYEE, HE COULD SCREAM !
A BADASS NOISY N ! BUST A WORD. N ![/size]
(http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/4954/untitled10cn.jpg)
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B6mick
Is your government really that bad? They can place restrictions on motorcycle modding based on conversations in a forum?
:shock:
No wonder we have immigration problems.
Yes our government does monitor all sorts of forums and web sites, not just motorcycle related stuff and I would assume that yours would to. Our politicians get their researchers and aids, to look things over, to see if they can find shyte that just may strengthen an argument, or an agenda, of course they do, and why wouldn’t they the webs full of bullshyte articles like the one brought forward to us here on Bandit Alley.
Yet here on Bandit Alley we have the truly remarkable ones :stickpoke: , who still fail beyond comprehension to put forward a single valid representation, to support their theory that loud pipes do not save lives. I really don’t care if you don’t like loud pipes, that is in fact your god given right, and again I will sit here and argue that you have every right to think that. But not liking loud pipes or the people that do have loud pipes :thanks: is the most piss weak argument to their theory that loud pipes don’t save lives I think I have ever heard :monkeymoon: .
Well maybe Herbs, could count, but if Max is correct :toofunny: , if you should ride past Herbs place, do so as fast as you can, because Herb will not hear you coming, so by the time Herb grabs his goesbanger :gatlin , and runs to the front yard, you will be in fact long gone, thus avoiding that butt full of buck shot. But I wouldn’t count on Max’s theory :duh: on how low frequencies travel from their point of origin, being anywhere near close to fact. Not unless, as I said before, you guys have produced motorcycles that can break the speed of sound :bigok: :beers: :bigok: :beers: . Top stuff, are they expensive, send me, pics and the specs. :motorsmile: I reckon I could cut the mufflers off it and piss you guys off, from over here. :lol: :toofunny: :lol: :toofunny: :lol: :toofunny: :lol:
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The B12 stock must have a carb/exhaust/airbox modification to run right.
I respectfully disagree.... not sure of your clinical definition of "running" right" is but the word "must" is an absolute that simply does not apply. Regardless, there are quiet high performance exhaust systems available if one feels that noise is an issue.
While proof that loud pipes DON'T save lives hasn't been offered up here there is a lack of credible proof that loud pipes DO save lives. FWIW, I hate loud obnoxious pipes in the wrong setting. Blipping the throttle on a set of open pipes at a stop sign in the middle of some small touristy town irritates the heck out of me.... there is no reason (other than self-indulgence) for that crap. One the other hand, what a sweet sound the race bikes were making at Barber a couple of weeks ago. A lot has to do with your immediate surroundings.
Overall, noise is a huge issue right now. The US government IS GETTING INVOLVED IN REGULATING NOISE AS WE TYPE. Even to the point of telling you what you can do on YOUR OWN PROPERTY!!!! That my fellow Bandito's is downright scary. The model airplane hobby as taken a huge hit due to the same thing. Sound measurement inspections are already in place in some locales. As always, if we don't police ourselves someone will do it for us.
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They are primarily audible from the rear and sides. A driver directly behind a loud-pipe dork will already SEE him (duh). The drivers getting ready to cut across the loud-pipe dork will never hear him unless his pipes are facing FORWARD. Loud pipes are juvenile noise-makers that are designed to entertain immature riders and annoy other people.
Spending money on rider training and high-visibility gear is a far better investment in your personal safety. Unless you really, really think that the hooligans from Mad Max were "cool."
Are you seriously trying to convince us that sound only travels in one direction? Or in a 180 degree direction?
That simply defies common physics. Even something as simple as the Doppler effect allows for continuing to hear a sound after it passes you.
(Yes - I do know that the doppler effect is based on a sound moving toward you at a speed. So please don't try to tell me that I don't even understand that.)
I think everyone here agrees that Loud - straight - unbaffled pipes are obnoxious.
As audiophiles know, the lower the frequency of the sound, the more omnidirectional it is. That's why sub-woffer placement in relation to the listener is not very important, but where the tweeters are is very important. Big V-twins' exhaust notes travel almost as well forward as they do out the exhaust tip. OTOH, since the higher the frequency, the more directional it becomes, an in-line fours' exhaust notes don't travel nearly as well forward as they do out the tip. You can still hear the four coming, but you won't hear it as soon as the V-twin. This was obvious this weekend when I was watching Superbike races and you could hear the Ducatis coming before they were even in the camera's view, but oftentimes, you didn't hear the Japanese bikes coming straight at the camera until they were close.
Here's an experiment for you: Go to the airport, a busy one works best. Position yourself as close to the approach end of the runway as the law will allow. Take note of when you can first hear a jetliner coming in. Then take note of when you can first hear a plane with two or more radial engines. Which one did you hear first?
IMHO, (ie; I have no facts to back it up), loud pipes do very little to save lives. Sure, there's a possibility they might have saved a few riders from death by spaced out cager, but I don't think of them as a safety device. I DO like the sound of a high performance engine, and I do put louder than stock exausts on my gas powered toys. I DON'T run straight pipes, or choose a system just because it's the loudest I can find. One thing I have learned over the years is an extremely loud set up will wear on MY nerves, too - as well as cause hearing loss. I bought my can (a Holeshot, in the quiet 17" version) for the performance AND the sound, but I never considered its purchase as safety related. I did consider that keeping the sound at a reasonable level might keep me from being noticed by those folks in uniforms that hand out performance awards - you know, the ones that give you the privelidge to contribute to the state coffers.
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Hey Red - You got my vote. There is no way I would consider an aftermarket pipe a saftey device, either. But I would think that because I, you, and many others have one, they do not deserve to be lumped in with the straight pipe using V-twin bikers. Or, for that matter, be called idiots and dorks. Just my HO.[/quote]
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Just my HO.
OK, I give up,,, who's your HO ? Is she a hottie, pics please !! :wink: :bigok:
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Perhaps, someone can explain to me why loud pipes and not loud horns?
A much cheaper solution would be to affix an airhorn to your bike and have it rigged to go off constantly or perhaps in 1 second bursts. Why stop there? We could install multiple units and still be way cheaper than purchasing new pipes. In fact we could even install sensors for the horns to go off when an "object" approaches within x distance of motorcycle from any side.
After all, the only reason for the loud pipes is safety (not the "I want to sound really bad" concept) Right?
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After all, the only reason for the loud pipes is safety (not the "I want to sound really bad" concept) Right?
Yeah, that's right! :roll:
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Finally - someone figured it out.
Oh yeah - I don't share pics of my HO! Although if she knew I called her my HO, she would probably become someone else's soon after that.
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I want a WHOOOGAAWW ! marine fog horn...
but for safety's sake I guess an ambulance siren will do... and maybe a single spinning emergency flasher under the headlight.
It's quite obvious the majority here feel that loud exhausts are a annoying (outweighing any safety consideration), whether it be on cars, bikes, or even the gas weedeater next door.
This thread should have been a POLL, not a post.
In fact, I'm gonna do just that..
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VOTE HERE---> http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?p=40825
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As audiophiles know, the lower the frequency of the sound, the more omnidirectional it is. That's why sub-woffer placement in relation to the listener is not very important, but where the tweeters are is very important. Big V-twins' exhaust notes travel almost as well forward as they do out the exhaust tip. OTOH, since the higher the frequency, the more directional it becomes, an in-line fours' exhaust notes don't travel nearly as well forward as they do out the tip. You can still hear the four coming, but you won't hear it as soon as the V-twin. This was obvious this weekend when I was watching Superbike races and you could hear the Ducatis coming before they were even in the camera's view, but oftentimes, you didn't hear the Japanese bikes coming straight at the camera until they were close.
This is widely talked about on some of the motocross forums. The big 4 stroke bikes ( that have a much deeper exhaust note) can be heard for -miles-. In fact, so much more so, that some tracks are fighting to stay open because of complaints about noise, even though those tracks ( previously mostly poulated by 2-strokes) have been open for years and without or at least with much much fewer complaints. (You'll never please everyone, right?)
There are concerns about the MX industry being damaged because of these loud bikes ( which of course generates tons of opposition, just like this thread.)
I ride both on the street and dirt. When I was looking for a "bigger" bike, to replace my TTR125L, I said no to the 2-strokes initially, because I hate the high pitched scream that they have. Then I went to an indoor arenacross ( like the supercross that was discussed here a few days ago), and noticed that the sound of the 4 strokes, that I could hear, no matter what direction they were travelling in, made me ill. Physically ill - to be in the room with. The really low bass of the (mainly modified) four stroke exhaust was what did it.
It took me some time to figure out what it was. I thought it was the sickeningly sweet smell of race gas ( that didn't help though), or the fumes in general. Then I noticed that in the races and heats with no 4 strokes, that I didn't feel like that. Then, in the pits ( because my other half was racing) one of the big thumpers was fired up right beside me. It was almost instantaneous. I had to leave the pits.
On a two-stroke, if you're in front of the pipe, with a helmet on, it's not so loud. The same would be true of the street exhaust. The high pitches, would die off quickly, and the noise is certainly louder behind than in front, but the lower pitch, will carry, and in all directions.
The other thing to remember, is that a helmet will dampen a lot of sound that many people hear, because they don't wear helmets in their cages, or while waiting for the bus, or.... The full volume of the exhaust at full scream, should technically never be heard by the rider.
That said, I will refrain from adding my opinion on whether loud pipes save lives or just tick people off.
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VOTE HERE---> http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?p=40825
Shouldn't there be a tweener for us guys that want to sit on the fence?? :wink:
Jim
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:duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh: :duh:
The wording of the vote is very very wrong in my view. And I don’t think you have given the question in whether or not, that loud pipes do and can save lives or loud pipes don’t and can not save lives.
I personally have never, stated that a loud exhaust is or should be used as a safety devise.
I have however stated that there is in fact a more realistic chance that loud pipes will however, contribute in some cases to saving lives, thus contradicting the statement that loud pipes do not save lives.
Boy oh boy, not one reasonable, factual, creditable argument, to support the theory that, “Loud Pipes Do Not Save Lives”
If you could have only stuck to the debate issue, instead of changing into something that no one, actually said, “That loud pipes should be used as a safety devise.” other than those against loud pipes.
So go on delete the poll and start it again. Reword it the spirit of the debate.
Remembering that the opening header to this debate was in fact.
LOUD PIPES DON”T SAVE LIVES.
To this we have both, pros and cons.
So I would have thought the wording to the poll questions, would have been along these lines.
“Do you agree that loud pipes do not and can not contribute to saving lives?”
Or
“Do you agree that loud pipes do and can contribute in saving lives?”
And for the fence sitters
I do not give a toss, and could not give a rats ass, about either argument.
And another for those who don't care, they just hate noisey bikes, cars, planes, boats, kids, parties, or poeple having a life with a little bit of noisey fun.
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How about - NIMBY - as another alternative....
Jim
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Vote True or False (yes or no). You either believe loud pipes contribute to safety or they don't. Very simple. Saving or not saving lives is a safety issue, sorry if you didn't like the wording. But safety and saving lives my friend are one in the same. If you don't have an opinion either way, simply don't vote, as in your number does not affect the outcome. If you don't like the wording, simply don't vote. Too many people have participated thus far for me to change it. If you would have caught it early, we could have changed it. But, I'm not gonna change it now, and expect people to vote yet again, as this would be the 3rd time this subject has come up. Isn't it about time to let it go by now. You can't whip a dead horse, let it go and feel happy and secure that you had a chance to voice your opinion with confidence.
I am sorry this whole issue is hard for you to live with, Mick. But you cannot force people to agree with you, everyone has a choice, that's the nice thing about living in a free society. I'm sorry, but this is not Germany, it's not 1940, and you're not Adolf Hitler.
This is my only issue with this subject. I can accept everyone's opinion, but have a hard time watching someone try to force agreement to their opinion down everyone's throat.
You can rant all you want, and I never have nor never will try to stop you. This is what we call free speech in a free society, if you forgot.
Now I am using my free choice to exit this controversy, it's finished for me.
Peace out Bro,
Mike :)
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That's because that noisy fun is just that to them...irritating, grating, useless, needess, mind numbing, ear damaging noise for the sake of making noise. No other reason.
In my efforts to be more safety conscious, I noticed that when towing a load of horse manure in my truck, cars would give me a wide berth. I like the smell of horse manure, seeing as I spent most of my teenage years in a barn, alone with those lovely animals....but I digress. Of course my scientific mind thought, there must be an application that I can make of this to my motorcycle!!! I set out and developed an attachment to my top case(patent pending). I discovered that the smell eminated ominidirectionally and anytime I needed to modify the pile I could simply adjusted the mixture by opening the air inlet. It was also effective when I increased the jets. This scientific experiment leads me to unequivocally state that carrying horse shit saves lives. </sarcasm>
I have yet to have seen one single, legitimate study that supports the idea that loud pipes save lives. Show me one, even half a study, and I'll consider changing my stand. What I do know, is that I have never met an individual with loud pipes that has them there solely for the "safety" factor. They want to sound cool and badass. Probably are compensating, and certainly trying to look a lot different from their daily accountant job.
The thing is that the final say will be made by the public not motorcyclists. When the wrong person is pissed off, you will see the laws develop. What is sad is that a perfectly legitimate sport, will be more severely restricted simply by the actions of those who most want to participate in the sport. Don't think that will happen? It already is.
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...
And another for those who don't care, they just hate noisey bikes, cars, planes, boats, kids, parties, or poeple having a life with a little bit of noisey fun.
What about one for people who just use any excuse to take a little target practice? :stickpoke: :lol:
Seriously, it's been an interesting discussion. Just, let's not get so intense on either side.
Now where's my gun?! :motorsmile:
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Any life saving merit a set of loud pipes currently has is simply because it's unique. If everyone had loud pipes, there would be no safety factor anymore, just everyone would be loosing their hearing from the noise.
Kind of like the 3rd brake light they added to cages in the back window. This got pushed on us from studies that found cars that had added one got in fewer rear end accidents. They got noticed because they were different. Now that most all cars have them, they aren't noticeable anymore because they're commonplace and everyone is used to them.
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Another case in point. We used to be the only ones with headlights on during the day. Now every new car has them on also. We once again blend into the crowd. Stay Alert, Stay Alive :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
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My Saab came that way. Headlights on all the time to accomodate Canadian regs. But it told in the manual how to disable that and I did. I don't want to be burning the lights on a bright Texas day. Dumb.
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I see a veiled insult against Canadians in there and I'm mad and I just won't take it any more!!!!
Have a nice day.
Jim
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I see a veiled insult against Canadians in there and I'm mad and I just won't take it any more!!!!
Have a nice day.
Jim
No, it just means you have better beer and have significantly more difficulty seeing in the daytime. Hence, you have to keep your lights on.
Silly, Canuck! :roll:
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I don't know how you do it but you managed to wiggle your way out of that one! :lol:
Jim
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I see a veiled insult against Canadians in there and I'm mad and I just won't take it any more!!!!
Have a nice day.
Jim
No, it just means you have better beer and have significantly more difficulty seeing in the daytime. Hence, you have to keep your lights on.
Silly, Canuck! :roll:
Careful Jim, you're showing our nationally bred insecurity. We usually try to keep all that paranoia inside our own borders, remember?
Herb, We need "daytime running lights" cos our daylight hours are so short, despite it still being "day", it's usually dark here. We need -something- on our cars to be able to see the moose and dog sleds, and most people here seem to object to using headlights, so the government mandated the "always on daytime runners"... which of course wasn't necessarily a good idea, since they reflect off all of the snow and blind us all the time... :stickpoke:
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I see a veiled insult against Canadians in there and I'm mad and I just won't take it any more!!!!
Have a nice day.
Jim
No, it just means you have better beer and have significantly more difficulty seeing in the daytime. Hence, you have to keep your lights on.
Silly, Canuck! :roll:
Careful Jim, you're showing our nationally bred insecurity. We usually try to keep all that paranoia inside our own borders, remember?
Herb, We need "daytime running lights" cos our daylight hours are so short, despite it still being "day", it's usually dark here. We need -something- on our cars to be able to see the moose and dog sleds, and most people here seem to object to using headlights, so the government mandated the "always on daytime runners"... which of course wasn't necessarily a good idea, since they reflect off all of the snow and blind us all the time... :stickpoke:
And polar bears! You do have polar bears running around all over, too, right?
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And polar bears! You do have polar bears running around all over, too, right?
Oh! I almost forgot about those. Yeah,.. they're pretty blinding with their white fur in the daytime runners too.
But at least we don't have scorpions, and all those poisonous spiders and stuff. They don't like the cold.
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I wonder what's Sweden's/Norwegian stats are? Have they had these lights for long? Did the accident rate go down when it was implemented? Did it STAY down?
These are questions informed taxpayers want to have answered!
jim
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Oh! I almost forgot about those. Yeah,.. they're pretty blinding with their white fur in the daytime runners too.
But at least we don't have scorpions, and all those poisonous spiders and stuff. They don't like the cold.
I think I would much rather face a scorpion or a poisonous spider than a polar bear, especially on a bike. :motorsmile:
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I think I would much rather face a scorpion or a poisonous spider than a polar bear, especially on a bike. :motorsmile:
Just carry a few bottles of Coca-Cola to give to 'em... that always seems to make the smile and be friendly - even with the off chance meeting of a flock of penguins that migrated to the wrong pole.
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I think I would much rather face a scorpion or a poisonous spider than a polar bear, especially on a bike. :motorsmile:
Just carry a few bottles of Coca-Cola to give to 'em... that always seems to make the smile and be friendly - even with the off chance meeting of a flock of penguins that migrated to the wrong pole.
Hey, I've seen the Coca-Cola commercial where the polar bear kid is given a Coke by a penquin kid! It was on TV. It can't be wrong.
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That's why I'm recommending you carry Coca-Cola whenever you're riding in Polar Bear country. :bigdrink:
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That's why I'm recommending you carry Coca-Cola whenever you're riding in Polar Bear country. :bigdrink:
I hear they're overrunning all of Canada, but how far into the U.S. 48 have they made it? Bastages are like fire ants, I'm hearing!
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There's plenty of Coca-Cola around here, and if you spill it, you'll get plenty of ants... :grin:
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Wow talk about a response!
I guess I should go into my garage and try to find my stock pipe to replace the yoshi TRS race can, just to be responsible now!
But my loud pipe did help me out one time.
I am coming around a corner on a very narrow 2 lane road in the Kootenay's (in British Columbia, Canada) and I see this rather large bear right in the middle of the road, who is licking up some squirrel kill. By the time I get stopped, I am about oh, 100 feet away from this bear. He looks at me and stands up on his hind legs. Now I am thinking what do I do, if he runs at me, I am in trouble because there is no way I can turn around. Well I run the Bandit up to about 5 grand, and that bear ran off like you would not believe.
See, I think loud pipes can save lives!
But really, I think there is a possibility that the world hates America because it invented the Harley-Davidson & straight pipes. The result has sent terror & aggrivation to households all over the world late at night. :bigok:
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I got another 'bar' one.....taught in the Arctic for four years in the land of the midnight sun in a neat place called Holman Island. This place is kinda famous because it has the most northerly golf course in the world!
Occasionally, a muskox would make it into town or a polar bear would be spotted some night down by the Hudson's Bay Company Store (now called Northern Stores, I believe).
The next day, the principal of the school would report a polar bear sighting and ask the parents to not send their kids to school alone; come with a friend. Like TWO grade 3 kids are going to be able to scare the thing off!
Anyway, still have the warning sheet from the principal sent home to the parents. How many letters sent to parents in the history of education would have polar bear warnings in them??
Jim