Milwaukee is in trouble

[Bob Holland]

Forbes published an article on its website indicating that The Motor Company(Harley) is caught behind a rock and hard place...

Add to that the fact that financial analysts expect a surge of homeowners defaulting on their subprime mortgages, and now you have Harley without qualified buyers.

Of course it didn't help that Harley decided to upgrade their Twin Cam engines to 96ci with 6-speed trannies, making it harder for dealers to sell their 2006 leftovers.

If Harley tightens up its lending practices it'll mean that dealers can't sell bikes. So should they take a gamble offer loans to people with risky credit, just to move the inventory?

Basically, Milwaukee is in trouble.

On the other hand, if you have cash to spend, now is the time to make a good deal on a 2007 Harley.

A good time to buy a Harley

[ZenMan]

I don't care for Harleys much, but they are an American icon.

This reminds me of the 70's, when AMF was building junk Harleys, so the government had to step in and save their sorry butts with tariffs... which meant us jap-bike buyers had to pay out the ass for our bikes. Still pisses me off.  

I hope this doesn't bite us in the ass too.

[CWO4GUNNER]

[rkfire]

This reminds me of the 70's, when AMF was building junk Harleys, so the government had to step in and save their sorry butts with tariffs... which meant us jap-bike buyers had to pay out the ass for our bikes. Still pisses me off.  

I hope this doesn't bite us in the ass too.

Well, the fact of the matter is: AMF was not the owner of Harley at the time of the tariff. The executive group had purchased Harley in 1981. In 1983 they went to the International Trade Commision and WON their case that the imports were dumping unsold inventories at a loss in the USA. They prevailed. In 1987 they petitioned the ITC for EARLY termination of the 5 year tarrif, as they felt it was no longer needed. Harley had at least used this time to modernize their plants, improve their quality, and engineer their new evolution engine etc.

I see it as they proved their case in a court setting, with the Japanese representitives present, and stating their own case.

[Red01]

I just wonder how many people actually bought Harleys because of the tariff. Japanese cruisers were in their infancy, and even with the tariff added for the bigger ones, IIRC, they were still cheaper than a HD. To me, the shame was this affected bikes whose owners never would have considered a HD.

[Bob Holland]

As dealers and customers became increasingly disenchanted with the Harley-Davidson name, the company's large-displacement motorcycles' market share fell from 80% to 45%, and it looked as though AMF would soon be liquidating their motorcycle company. In 1981, 14 management-level employees joined together, put up their own money and borrowed $80 million to buy Harley-Davidson from AMF. Proclaiming "The Eagle Flies Alone," elation turned to disappointment when The Motor Company posted its first loss in over 40 years and its market share dropped below Honda's.

The Sportster had received a new frame design in 1981, and 25th Anniversary models of the XLH and XLS appeared in 1982, along with lower compression and less power as a result of newly-mandated lower octane gasolines. In 1983 the XR-1000 street-racer version of the Sportster, with alloy heads and 70 HP, made a short-lived appearance and helped boost sales of the bare-bones XLX-61. Going ever deeper into debt, the company was finally granted temporary assistance in the form of a 45% tarrif on Japanese motorcycles over 750 cc. 1983 also marked one of the company's most brilliant marketing strategies, with the formation of the Harley Owners Group (HOG). By providing white-collar buyers with sanitized motorcycle clubs, Harleys would stop being identified with greasy biker trash and outlaw gangs.

I always look at it as a bail out of Harley, they would have been out of business in a couple of years without it.

[Red01]

I don't know where you got that, BH, but there's at least one error in it. The tariff was on bikes over 700cc, not 750. That's why a lot of Japanese 750s quickly became 700s (technically, just under 700, like 699, 698, etc.).

Basically, the tariff just affected the prices of some Japanese bikes one liter and up. Europeans were granted a number of bikes that could come in with the old 4.4% tariff. The number was large enough they didn't have to jack prices up since they probably didn't even bring in enough bikes to go over their quota. Honda & Kawasaki sidestepped the tariff on some big models by building them in the US. HD had wanted the tariff to include powertrain parts, but the ITC denied that part.

Here's a period piece (January 12, 1984) that gives a lot of info on the subject:
https://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa032.html

[Bob Holland]

I just googled it, but I knew that it was over 700cc because the 750s came out as 700 the next year, I just didn't catch it when read it.
In 1972 I was looking at the 750 Honda and the 1000 cc Sportster, the prices were about the same $1400. I ended up buying a 1972 Yamaha XS 650 for about $1250.

[CWO4GUNNER]

[stormi]

Seems to me that HD is mostly about merchandising anyway,... why not kiabosh the bikes altogether, and sell shirts/mugs/vest, etc about the only REAL bike that was?    

[JReviere]

About 3 yrs ago, a new Swine Shop opened in Austin, TX with much fanfare. A bunch of us all riding Honda Cruisers (Magnas) rode over. There were perhaps 300 biked parked all over the place. Outside, they had a display of the new V-Rod with the Porche engine. Inside there was a display of Ducati bikes tucked far back in the rear corner of the BIG show room full of shiny new antiques. There was one lone V-Rod on display inside, about 30 feet from it, a girl was selling T shirts with the dealer name etc. emblazened on them... of course they were all BLACK... A long line of the "faithful" was cued up to pay good money to advertise for Harley and this dealer. Now that's marketing GENIUS... seduce a faithful to pay you to allow them to advertise for you... absolute GENIUS... The funny thing was, I stood near the V-Rod inside and watched. The faithful all attired in their "bad ass" uniform of black shirts, chairns and dirty jeans made an obvious effort to walk as far as they could away from the V-Rod as they could, avoiding even getting close to it as though they feared contamination or something of the sort. I stood there a good 30 minutes being amused almost to the point of laughing out loud.  

I knew a dealer (Danny McCaslan) in Albuquerque who had a Honda dealership. He sold out when he had the opportunity to get rich by picking up a Hog dealership and BOUTIQUE in Santa Fe, NM.  After about 4 years in The City Different catering to the faithful, he was so wealthy he could retire and just go ride...
JR
Lake Livingston, TX

[SteelD]

We had a problem in the UK with the British bike industry. Who would want to buy a Triumph or Norton when the Japanese bikes, were faster, more sophisticated and didn't leak oil? OK, there were the die-hards that wouldn't touch a Jap bike with a barge pole (English expression) but eventually all the Brit bike makers folded. Triumph was bought out by a cooperative but eventually failed because it was the same old models with little new. The current Triumph company is now successful because it has moved on and competes head-on with the best from anywhere.

That's what Harley should do if it needs to survive. They have to find a way of retaining their identity with a niche product but offer a lot more for the money. Arguably, BMW is expensive but you get a lot of technology, good handling and reasonable performance even from an 'old' boxer engine. Even Ducati and Moto Guzzi still make v-twins but they are modern and live off of what they have to offer now as opposed to the iconic image they used to have as in the case of Harley.

[banditone1250s]

I think that a lot of people buy Harleys for the same reason that they buy Mercedes and other "high-end" cars. It's because they are using their bikes/cars as a status symbol. They think that it is all about the vehicle and not the ride. The reason that I say this is that if you take any "jap" bike and compare it to any "Harley" there is no comparison. The ricers have more technology in them "hands down". They handle better, they are lighter, they perform better, and are much smoother too. They brag about them being "american" made. It's kinda like back in the sixties, seventies and eighties when every one started buying "jap" cars instead of American cars. The American maufacturers had the technology to build a better car or a better motorcycle, they just cared more about making a profit (because of the unions) than giving the public a great product at a great price. It's a shame that American manufacturers have the techs, but won't put it out there. The Harley was actually designed by a "German" designer. They are just made in America. The ricers were designed by a Japanese designer and in a lot of cases are also built in America too. Virtually all the Honda cruisers are built in America so I really don't feel that's much of a "leg" to stand on any more. I would buy American too if they would market and produce a product that has the technology that the Japanese bikes have. I would do it in a minute, but it's just not out there.

[ZillaX]

If Buell used a semi-modern motor, how many of us would buy one?  I for one would.  I want a real motorcycle to ride not be seen on.  I can't believe Harley has a very good Buell chassis right under their noses and is to ignorant to develop a modern power plant for it!  If they ever want people that actually ride to buy their bikes they are going to have to be competitive performance wise on some level. It is pretty hard for me to "Buy American"  when my new Bandit Cost 65% of an American made bike, and will out perform that bike in EVERY performance category!!!  OK I'm done! Time to go ride.

[Red01]

I can't believe Harley has a very good Buell chassis right under their noses and is to ignorant to develop a modern power plant for it!

Funny thing is, HD had a modern powerplant in work for Buell. They were working on developing a street version of the VR1000 race bike motor. They ended up taking the project away from Buell, made it bulkier and put in the the V-Rod.

With the recent news that Buell is going to get into the dirt bike market and specualtion these bikes will use Rotax motors, maybe there's hope for a liter bike with with a Rotax twin?