Author Topic: New 1250/650 Bandits  (Read 8302 times)

Offline gyrogearcrunch

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New 1250/650 Bandits
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2007, 03:00:28 PM »
Quote from: "H2RICK"
Quote
I read somewhere that the big Can contains a 3-way Catalytic Converter. So this means there's prolly at least one oxygen sensor, maybe two


:duh: What was I thinking ?? I coulda crawled underneath and checked it all out..... :duh: The can DID look like it could easily have a catalyst in it.....
It may be an early-style catalyst that doesn't require the O2 sensors ???


I hope you're right, H2Rick! The W/C (watercloset?- Heh!) Bandit looks funny with that big sausage on its side. Besides, I bet that the exhaust note is dull and flat with all that honeycomb inside the can.

Herb

Offline fritobandito

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can size
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2007, 03:30:05 PM »
If you think that can is huge, take a look at the new Kawasaki Concours Z1400 can. Now THAT'S one huge can!
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Offline fritobandito

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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2007, 03:36:06 PM »
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Offline Sven

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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2007, 04:06:24 PM »
Huge thing?  Huge can?  It's like you've seen me naked!  (har har)

Anyway, I think the Concours 1400 is a thing of beauty. (Of course, I ain't never seen one in person.)  But since NO motorcycle is going to look svelt with hardcase baggage, they've done about the best job imaginable with it.  And given the general chunkiness of a big tourer, the big exhaust is in proportion, designwise.  Remember how huge the one on the Rune was, but the Rune was long, wide and fat, so it wore it well.  And the V-Rod exhaust is large and in charge, but again, the design was done to make seem less obvious.  Like wearing black.
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Offline fritobandito

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huge
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2007, 04:09:24 PM »
In proportion? Sorry Sven, but I can't agree with ya there. But, once again, it all comes down to personal taste doesn't it. As for me, it's too big. But, hey, whatever floats yer boat, bangs yer shutters, blows yer skirt up, yada yada yada.
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Offline gyrogearcrunch

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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2007, 04:46:23 PM »
Quote from: "Sven"
Quote from: "gyrogearcrunch"
Teal? My '99 is British Racing Green, Y7G. When did Suzuki start offering Teal?


It's the YV4 Metallic Surf Green.  I have never travelled to a planet where the ocean is metallic green (but I hear Jupiter is pretty in the spring).  However, I have seen teal ducks, and that's a lot closer to the color of el bandido.  Like teal, the bike changes colors depending on the lighting.  One of the most common questions I get from other motorcyclists (after "does it go fast?") is "is that the original color?"  So the slate blue mentioned by Rick above sounds really good to me.


That's well and truly strange, Sven. Your description of the paint color matches exactly what's on my Bandido. It's definitely metallic, and looks like a Teal Duck Green! But the part number fot the two colors are different. Anyway, I think you know that the green ones are faster (he-he).  :pukey:

Herb

Offline ZenMan

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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2007, 06:55:16 PM »
Yes, the huge can on the new '07 Bandit is HUGE.

Yes, it does contain a catalytic converter. I think the O2 sensor is on the collector though.

The GOOD thing about that huge can is all the horsepower I'm going to get by simply repacing it with an aftermarket slip-on!  :bigok:

That, and remapping the computer, and probably removing the secondary throttle-valves will probably get me 20-25 horsepower alone. Not bad for a couple simple mods, aye?  :beers:
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Offline Lmario

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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2007, 04:51:07 PM »
Zenman,

Are the numbers you mention expectations or have you already seen/heared/read about a modded 1250?

I'm very interested.
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Offline ZenMan

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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2007, 06:01:07 PM »
Lmario, as far as I know there hasn't been any '07's to play with yet, so yes, these numbers are my slightly optimistc expectations. HOWEVER, they are based on some experience.

I was a professional ASE certified auto tech for 28 years, been to school for different types of fuel injection and emissions. Granted, it's not motorcycle stuff, but it is related. I built and raced bikes in the 80's, mostly 4-in-lines, and a few 2-strokes. And I did a pretty good job opening up the potential on a '82 GPZ1100 with digital fuel-injection by putting a Kerker header on it, porting and polishing the head, and replacing the black box "chip" before they had the gadgets they do now where you can reprogram the computer and fine-tune the settings. Along with a few other minor changes, I remember getting about 20 more horses out of that beast.

Take the catalytic converter... it creates quite a bit of back pressure, which also affects the O2 sensor reading that feeds info to the computer. I'm making an educated guess here, but I'm expecting to get 5 to 7 horsepower by removing the stock can with the converter and replacing it with a low-pressure slip-on.

Now you have the secondary throttle plates, which are controlled by the computer and restrict air flow into the throttle-body which richens the mixture under certain conditions, to smooth out mid-range power, for example. By removing these plates, you eliminate any air-flow restrictions, which will richen the mixture across the board, therefore changing the O2 sensor readings which affect the computer. I figure this will get me another 3 to 5 horsepower, but will have driveability problems like popping on decelleration, abrupt power surges and the like. So...

To tie it all together you need to go into the computer with a UBS port-type reprogamming unit and tweak the settings for the new conditions created by the lack of back-pressure and unrestricted air-flow through the throttle bodies. Remember the computer also controls the ignition timing. The re-map will probably be good for around 7 to 10 more HP's and balance everything out smoothly.

So by adding it all up, I arrive at an estimate of 15 to 22 horsepower, which is less optimistc than my off-the-cuff original numbers of 20 t0 25, but I'd be pretty happy with that. And without having to get into the engine at all, and spending around $500 to $700 depending on which exhaust I use, and whatever it takes for the re-map.

These are relatively simple mods that most people can do themselves. If you can operate your home PC, you should be able to tweak the "black box" no problem. I just love digital fuel injection!  :grin:

The '07 is supposed to be Euro-3 compliant, which means it's choked down pretty good. That and the fact that Suzuki puts out rather modest HP specs for insurance purposes, and justifying the "standard" status of the Bandit rather than putting it in the higher-risk "sportbike" category, it's my opinion that there is a huge amount of potential in this new bike that can be realized relatively easily simply by allowing the new 1250 engine to breath properly.

After that, if you want to get into the engine and spend bigger bucks, think about this: The stock cams are probably configured for low and mid-range torque, and the stock pistons are most likely lower-compression units designed for low-octane gas. Imagine what the right cams with some high-compression pistons would do on top of those extra 50 CC's....  another 15 to 20 HP's wouldn't be too much to expect, ya think? :bigok:
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Offline ZOOMER

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New 1250/650 Bandits
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2007, 11:59:58 AM »
Hi, newbie here. I just joined this BBS because I'm thinking about getting a new 1250 Bandit.
Zenman, you sound like you know what your doing. I talked to a mechanic friend and he said the same thing about how detuned the new model was.
I'm really interested in this stuff. How do you re-map the computer anyway?
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Offline ZenMan

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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2007, 01:40:39 PM »
Quote from: "ZOOMER"
Hi, newbie here. I just joined this BBS because I'm thinking about getting a new 1250 Bandit.
Zenman, you sound like you know what your doing. I talked to a mechanic friend and he said the same thing about how detuned the new model was.
I'm really interested in this stuff. How do you re-map the computer anyway?

Well, I'm thinking of getting one of these: http://www.metisse.de/index.php?id=117&L=1#

But I could use some input on it. It's supposed to work on all Suzuki fuel-injected models, and hooks up to the diagnostic port. Has anyone used this product?
"Hmmm... near certainty of death with little chance of success... what are we waiting for?"

Offline ZillaX

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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2007, 07:56:14 PM »
Zoomer-

Welcome to the site!  I have money down on a black 07 and I am pretty excited.  Don't believe much of what you read claiming to be fact about the 07's.  I've done a ton of searching on the net and haven't found one person who has ridden the new bike!  There is a dyno chart floating around from somewhere in Europe that says basically the 07's make pretty much the same power as the 06's, but this chart is a plain graph not very detailed, I would say its reliability is suspect at best. The facts are nobody outside of Suzuki has much for info. yet.  Which is REALLY FRUSTRATING for those of us dying for some facts!
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Offline Bazza

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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2007, 09:02:26 PM »
Well I finally sat on both the 650 & 1250 Bandits today, and must admit I was pleasantly impressed.

As the new B-12 is quite a bit porkier than the 2nd gen, Suzuki did a very good job covering this up. The new bike feels much more nimble than my 2nd gen B-12. (Of course the tank was empty)

I liked everything about it, except the $10,200.00 (Canadian) MSP.




Offline JamieK

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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2007, 12:47:10 AM »
I did not like the look of the engine...this bike could use a full fairing...or some charcoal heat resistant paint on the lump...had fun with the Suz rep cuz I knew more about the 07 and 06 Bandits than he did lol...in the end I  told him that I hope the new gen is a good seller as it will be a very good bike for what it was designed for...but I'm still very happy that I bought the 06 over the 07
Jamie K in Edmonton<br />06 B12S, Full Muzzy, Stage 1 jets, Timing Advancer

Offline H2RICK

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« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2007, 01:30:07 AM »
Quote
some charcoal heat resistant paint on the lump


Absolutely right, dreadnought....that's what I thought too. The aluminum paint looks really cheesy, IMO. If not satin black then at least a nice dark charcoal grey.....
Not to offend you guys with the '07 on order.....just my opinion. "Art" is like that....right?? :grin:
Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is terminal.
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