Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: H2RICK on January 06, 2007, 04:44:33 PM
-
I went to the Calgary Bike Show last night and viewed the new Bandits. Interesting.....but I'm not trading in my '06 on one.
The bikes are basically '06 models with the appropriate changes made to accomodate the water cooled engine. Everything else looked pretty much the same to me except for the lame colours....the 1200 comes in black and a weird kind of dark slate blue and the 650 comes in last year's 1200 "red" (which IMO is a nice wine colour) and also in a medium blue. Strangely enough, the Suzuki catalogue spec sheet lists the 1250 as having a 5 speed tranny, while in the copy on the page actually about the 1250, a six speed is mentioned. Maybe it's a 5 and a half speed ?? :wink:
I guess a guy would have to actually ride one to find out for sure..... :grin:
As well, I thought the stock can on my '06 B12 was on the large size, but the can on the 1250 is HUGE. You have to see it to believe it. The sucker must weigh a ton..... :shock:
-
I've got a '07 1250 on order in black. I was wondering if you happened to notice the radiator on the new bike?
I'm especially interested because I want to order a lower fairing for mine, but from what I can see in the pictures, the radiator looks bigger and wider than the oil cooler on the previous Bandits, and so I'm not sure the fairing would fit.
Any help?
:thanks:
-
I have pictures that I took from the show in Houston ZenMan if you think they might tell you what you need to know I will post them.
-
Pics might help, if they show the radiator clearly. But yeah, post them up, I'd love to see them anyway!
Measurements would be great!
I might have to wait till I get the bike home. I'll be sure to take measurements and post pics for anyone who needs to know anything about the '07 1250. I'll let ya'll know when I have it, and everyone please feel free to ask anything about it, I'll do my best to help any way I can.
I hope it's this month!
-
Here ya go. I don't know if they will help much but folks can see the bike anyway.
(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5923/07banditrscunh9.jpg)
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/4141/07banditrsuq2.jpg)
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5820/07banditlsaz0.jpg)
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1552/07banditfshm9.jpg)
-
Nice!
That new engine looks sweet, huh?
It's hard to tell whether the radiator is wider than the old oil cooler, or it's just because the engine is narrower. Actually, it does look like the radiator is quite a bit bigger... I don't know if the Metisse fairing for the '06 model will fit or not.
Yep, that giant can gotta go.
I like that color! :bigok:
Thanks for the pics... :thanks:
-
Zenman: No doubt about it....the W/C rad is wider and taller than the oil cooler for the earlier engine. I didn't take any measurements so can't tell you how it'll affect your fairing/mounting problems. Hope it works out for you.
-
H2Rick, thanks for the reply. That's what I thought.
I doubt that any lower fairings will fit on the new water-cooled bike then. It may be quite some time before someone starts making one, if they ever do. :?:
-
I'm planning to attend the Cycle World show in Atlanta and hoping to see the new Bandit along with the new Concours. (And I *really* like the '07 blacked-out Night Rod.) And slate blue sounds good to me, but heck, I like the teal green.
For waffling reasons I've mentioned before, I can't see replacing the '03 B12 with an '07 B12.5--it would be like trading in a 42 inch TV screen for a 46 inch. Several nice new features (and it looks GREAT), but not enough wrong with the old one to sell it, and not enough reasons to keep them both. But el bandido is about to hit 29K, and in '06 I put over 12K on it, so if I just try to *wear* it out, I might be able to justify it a bike #3 (after one of the other nominees above as #2).
Blathering out loud here...
Anyone else going to the Alanta show?
-
Hey, Sven... any way I can talk you into taking a small tape-measure with you and getting the measurements on the radiator on the '07 Bandit? :grin:
Also, pics are always cool... :bigok:
-
I plan on taking a *lot* of pix...I've never been to a "real" MC show before. The one here is usually just what the dealers have and the Easyriders show is all custom (and v-twin).
Sure, I'll be glad to get some measurements for ya. PM me with *excatly* what you want and as long as they let me near it, I'll get what ya need.
-
That would be right nice of ya! :wink:
I just need the radiator measurements, but I'll send ya a PM with the details... :thanks:
-
Teal? My '99 is British Racing Green, Y7G. When did Suzuki start offering Teal?
Feel as you do about going for the 2007 W/C Bandido and let's not forget that the '07 weighs in at 496 lbs., about 20 lbs. more than the 1200 models, but the fuel injection is tempting.
I read somewhere that the big Can contains a 3-way Catalytic Converter. So this means there's prolly at least one oxygen sensor, maybe two, and who knows what other electrical connections, so it might be a bear to dump it in favor of an aftermarket can. That would invite the computer to have a nervous collapse (':crybaby:')
unless it could be re-jiggered.
You opinion, please (':thanks:')
Herb
I'm planning to attend the Cycle World show in Atlanta and hoping to see the new Bandit along with the new Concours. (And I *really* like the '07 blacked-out Night Rod.) And slate blue sounds good to me, but heck, I like the teal green.
<SNIP>
Blathering out loud here...
Anyone else going to the Alanta show?
:thanks: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:
-
I read somewhere that the big Can contains a 3-way Catalytic Converter. So this means there's prolly at least one oxygen sensor, maybe two
:duh: What was I thinking ?? I coulda crawled underneath and checked it all out..... :duh: The can DID look like it could easily have a catalyst in it.....
It may be an early-style catalyst that doesn't require the O2 sensors ???
-
Teal? My '99 is British Racing Green, Y7G. When did Suzuki start offering Teal?
It's the YV4 Metallic Surf Green. I have never travelled to a planet where the ocean is metallic green (but I hear Jupiter is pretty in the spring). However, I have seen teal ducks, and that's a lot closer to the color of el bandido. Like teal, the bike changes colors depending on the lighting. One of the most common questions I get from other motorcyclists (after "does it go fast?") is "is that the original color?" So the slate blue mentioned by Rick above sounds really good to me.
-
I read somewhere that the big Can contains a 3-way Catalytic Converter. So this means there's prolly at least one oxygen sensor, maybe two
:duh: What was I thinking ?? I coulda crawled underneath and checked it all out..... :duh: The can DID look like it could easily have a catalyst in it.....
It may be an early-style catalyst that doesn't require the O2 sensors ???
I hope you're right, H2Rick! The W/C (watercloset?- Heh!) Bandit looks funny with that big sausage on its side. Besides, I bet that the exhaust note is dull and flat with all that honeycomb inside the can.
Herb
-
If you think that can is huge, take a look at the new Kawasaki Concours Z1400 can. Now THAT'S one huge can!
-
Click here to see that huge thing.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/dwaynedaniels/C14bagless.jpg
-
Huge thing? Huge can? It's like you've seen me naked! (har har)
Anyway, I think the Concours 1400 is a thing of beauty. (Of course, I ain't never seen one in person.) But since NO motorcycle is going to look svelt with hardcase baggage, they've done about the best job imaginable with it. And given the general chunkiness of a big tourer, the big exhaust is in proportion, designwise. Remember how huge the one on the Rune was, but the Rune was long, wide and fat, so it wore it well. And the V-Rod exhaust is large and in charge, but again, the design was done to make seem less obvious. Like wearing black.
-
In proportion? Sorry Sven, but I can't agree with ya there. But, once again, it all comes down to personal taste doesn't it. As for me, it's too big. But, hey, whatever floats yer boat, bangs yer shutters, blows yer skirt up, yada yada yada.
-
Teal? My '99 is British Racing Green, Y7G. When did Suzuki start offering Teal?
It's the YV4 Metallic Surf Green. I have never travelled to a planet where the ocean is metallic green (but I hear Jupiter is pretty in the spring). However, I have seen teal ducks, and that's a lot closer to the color of el bandido. Like teal, the bike changes colors depending on the lighting. One of the most common questions I get from other motorcyclists (after "does it go fast?") is "is that the original color?" So the slate blue mentioned by Rick above sounds really good to me.
That's well and truly strange, Sven. Your description of the paint color matches exactly what's on my Bandido. It's definitely metallic, and looks like a Teal Duck Green! But the part number fot the two colors are different. Anyway, I think you know that the green ones are faster (he-he). :pukey:
Herb
-
Yes, the huge can on the new '07 Bandit is HUGE.
Yes, it does contain a catalytic converter. I think the O2 sensor is on the collector though.
The GOOD thing about that huge can is all the horsepower I'm going to get by simply repacing it with an aftermarket slip-on! :bigok:
That, and remapping the computer, and probably removing the secondary throttle-valves will probably get me 20-25 horsepower alone. Not bad for a couple simple mods, aye? :beers:
-
Zenman,
Are the numbers you mention expectations or have you already seen/heared/read about a modded 1250?
I'm very interested.
-
Lmario, as far as I know there hasn't been any '07's to play with yet, so yes, these numbers are my slightly optimistc expectations. HOWEVER, they are based on some experience.
I was a professional ASE certified auto tech for 28 years, been to school for different types of fuel injection and emissions. Granted, it's not motorcycle stuff, but it is related. I built and raced bikes in the 80's, mostly 4-in-lines, and a few 2-strokes. And I did a pretty good job opening up the potential on a '82 GPZ1100 with digital fuel-injection by putting a Kerker header on it, porting and polishing the head, and replacing the black box "chip" before they had the gadgets they do now where you can reprogram the computer and fine-tune the settings. Along with a few other minor changes, I remember getting about 20 more horses out of that beast.
Take the catalytic converter... it creates quite a bit of back pressure, which also affects the O2 sensor reading that feeds info to the computer. I'm making an educated guess here, but I'm expecting to get 5 to 7 horsepower by removing the stock can with the converter and replacing it with a low-pressure slip-on.
Now you have the secondary throttle plates, which are controlled by the computer and restrict air flow into the throttle-body which richens the mixture under certain conditions, to smooth out mid-range power, for example. By removing these plates, you eliminate any air-flow restrictions, which will richen the mixture across the board, therefore changing the O2 sensor readings which affect the computer. I figure this will get me another 3 to 5 horsepower, but will have driveability problems like popping on decelleration, abrupt power surges and the like. So...
To tie it all together you need to go into the computer with a UBS port-type reprogamming unit and tweak the settings for the new conditions created by the lack of back-pressure and unrestricted air-flow through the throttle bodies. Remember the computer also controls the ignition timing. The re-map will probably be good for around 7 to 10 more HP's and balance everything out smoothly.
So by adding it all up, I arrive at an estimate of 15 to 22 horsepower, which is less optimistc than my off-the-cuff original numbers of 20 t0 25, but I'd be pretty happy with that. And without having to get into the engine at all, and spending around $500 to $700 depending on which exhaust I use, and whatever it takes for the re-map.
These are relatively simple mods that most people can do themselves. If you can operate your home PC, you should be able to tweak the "black box" no problem. I just love digital fuel injection! :grin:
The '07 is supposed to be Euro-3 compliant, which means it's choked down pretty good. That and the fact that Suzuki puts out rather modest HP specs for insurance purposes, and justifying the "standard" status of the Bandit rather than putting it in the higher-risk "sportbike" category, it's my opinion that there is a huge amount of potential in this new bike that can be realized relatively easily simply by allowing the new 1250 engine to breath properly.
After that, if you want to get into the engine and spend bigger bucks, think about this: The stock cams are probably configured for low and mid-range torque, and the stock pistons are most likely lower-compression units designed for low-octane gas. Imagine what the right cams with some high-compression pistons would do on top of those extra 50 CC's.... another 15 to 20 HP's wouldn't be too much to expect, ya think? :bigok:
-
Hi, newbie here. I just joined this BBS because I'm thinking about getting a new 1250 Bandit.
Zenman, you sound like you know what your doing. I talked to a mechanic friend and he said the same thing about how detuned the new model was.
I'm really interested in this stuff. How do you re-map the computer anyway?
-
Hi, newbie here. I just joined this BBS because I'm thinking about getting a new 1250 Bandit.
Zenman, you sound like you know what your doing. I talked to a mechanic friend and he said the same thing about how detuned the new model was.
I'm really interested in this stuff. How do you re-map the computer anyway?
Well, I'm thinking of getting one of these: http://www.metisse.de/index.php?id=117&L=1#
But I could use some input on it. It's supposed to work on all Suzuki fuel-injected models, and hooks up to the diagnostic port. Has anyone used this product?
-
Zoomer-
Welcome to the site! I have money down on a black 07 and I am pretty excited. Don't believe much of what you read claiming to be fact about the 07's. I've done a ton of searching on the net and haven't found one person who has ridden the new bike! There is a dyno chart floating around from somewhere in Europe that says basically the 07's make pretty much the same power as the 06's, but this chart is a plain graph not very detailed, I would say its reliability is suspect at best. The facts are nobody outside of Suzuki has much for info. yet. Which is REALLY FRUSTRATING for those of us dying for some facts!
-
Well I finally sat on both the 650 & 1250 Bandits today, and must admit I was pleasantly impressed.
As the new B-12 is quite a bit porkier than the 2nd gen, Suzuki did a very good job covering this up. The new bike feels much more nimble than my 2nd gen B-12. (Of course the tank was empty)
I liked everything about it, except the $10,200.00 (Canadian) MSP.
(http://www.members.shaw.ca/Zukeman/IMG_0002.JPG)
(http://www.members.shaw.ca/Zukeman/IMG_0001.JPG)
-
I did not like the look of the engine...this bike could use a full fairing...or some charcoal heat resistant paint on the lump...had fun with the Suz rep cuz I knew more about the 07 and 06 Bandits than he did lol...in the end I told him that I hope the new gen is a good seller as it will be a very good bike for what it was designed for...but I'm still very happy that I bought the 06 over the 07
-
some charcoal heat resistant paint on the lump
Absolutely right, dreadnought....that's what I thought too. The aluminum paint looks really cheesy, IMO. If not satin black then at least a nice dark charcoal grey.....
Not to offend you guys with the '07 on order.....just my opinion. "Art" is like that....right?? :grin:
-
Hey, no offense taken! Bikes are very individual tastes. I'm not going to rain on anyone's parade, the '06 is a fine looking motorcycle, and the black engine looks great! :wink:
I had a choice to buy a new '06 1200, or order the '07 1250 and wait. I chose the '07 mainly because of the fuel injection and the liquid cooled engine. I've had fuel injected bikes before and they tend to spoil ya... instant throttle response, super-smooth power, fuel efficiency, and they're so easy to tweak. Plus the liquid cooling helps reduce head temperatures, and cooler temps mean more HP's and longer engine life.
Personally, I like the big silver engine, it stands out... looks like a honkin' power-plant with wheels and handlebars attached! And I am seroiusly considering a full fairing anyway, whenever one becomes available.
Hey, what does it matter, '07, '06, '05, or the older classic Bandits... they are all great bikes and the only important thing is that YOU are happy with YOUR Bandit, right? :beers:
-
Zoomer-
Welcome to the site! I have money down on a black 07 and I am pretty excited. Don't believe much of what you read claiming to be fact about the 07's. I've done a ton of searching on the net and haven't found one person who has ridden the new bike! There is a dyno chart floating around from somewhere in Europe that says basically the 07's make pretty much the same power as the 06's, but this chart is a plain graph not very detailed, I would say its reliability is suspect at best. The facts are nobody outside of Suzuki has much for info. yet. Which is REALLY FRUSTRATING for those of us dying for some facts!
Thanks for the welcome! Me too! I'm excited, frustrated, anxious and nervous all mixed up at once!
Mostly what I know about the bike is what's on the Suzuki website and what the dealer told me. I do know it has a catylitic converter in the muffler though, it says that right on the brochure. And taking it off is supposed to really boost the horsepower. But it probably voids the warranty so you need to keep the stock muffler to put back on if you have to take it in I think.
I bought mine for the same reasons it looks like Zenman did, because of the fuel injection. Nothing against carberetors guys! It's just I'm no whiz at tuning and stuff and the FI is easy. Just push the button and ZOOM! And everybody tells me how easy it is to plug a box in and program it for better performance and stuff.
I plan on making mine into a sport-tourer so I have a lot of accessories planned, like luggage and windshield and stuff. I still like to ZOOM around though!
-
Well I finally sat on both the 650 & 1250 Bandits today, and must admit I was pleasantly impressed.
As the new B-12 is quite a bit porkier than the 2nd gen, Suzuki did a very good job covering this up. The new bike feels much more nimble than my 2nd gen B-12. (Of course the tank was empty)
I liked everything about it, except the $10,200.00 (Canadian) MSP.
(http://www.members.shaw.ca/Zukeman/IMG_0002.JPG)
(http://www.members.shaw.ca/Zukeman/IMG_0001.JPG)
Wow, nice pics Bazza! Your driving me crazy waiting for my new Bandit, I haven't even been in the same room as one yet!
I'm glad to hear you liked it, but I feel sorry for you Canadian guys about the price. I'm paying about $7800 for mine before taxes. Is everything more expensive up there? What is the taxes like? Here I'll probably pay another $400 for the tax and title.
What do you mean that it's "porkier"? You mean because it weighs a little more? Suzuki says the engine is narrower than the air/oil-cooled one but the radiator is bigger. The engine is a little heavier but it's down low so it shouldn't feel any heavier really. And I guess a lot of the weight is in the big muffler too, so it won't be very hard to "lighten it up"!
Anyway I'm going nuts waiting for my new bike! All my questions will be answered soon!
-
Hey Zoomer...when I talked with the rep while standing next to the blue one in the pic he told me that they would be going for under $10K...my guess is that a person would be able to get one out the door for around $10K if they're a good talker. As for taxes we pay the 6%GST (goods and services tax) that is Canada wide, we don't have provincial sales tax. You also have to pay freight and PDI, which again a good talker can get out of...especially if they bring in cash :wink: I'm sure most of the people who buy an 07 will really like it as overall it is a well thought out machine for its purpose. The silver paint on the engine though amplifies the casting flaws,and because it is so bright it draws your eye to it to see those flaws. If it was a darker color it would hide those and the whole machine would look more refined because of that. I have the same complaint about the new BMW F800S, great looking bike but the bright silver paint made the engine look like a big plastic afterthought...yes the paint actually made that engine look like plastic to me.
Enjoy your 07...I'm looking forward to hearing some real world impressions of the new model.
-
More pics of the '07 1250 can be found in this thread:
http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=7338&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
-
I'm sure most of the people who buy an 07 will really like it as overall it is a well thought out machine for its purpose. The silver paint on the engine though amplifies the casting flaws,and because it is so bright it draws your eye to it to see those flaws. If it was a darker color it would hide those and the whole machine would look more refined because of that. I have the same complaint about the new BMW F800S, great looking bike but the bright silver paint made the engine look like a big plastic afterthought...yes the paint actually made that engine look like plastic to me.
Enjoy your 07...I'm looking forward to hearing some real world impressions of the new model.
That's cool... I guess I'll have to see mine up close, but I like the silver engine in the picture!
If I don't like it, it would be pretty easy to pull the engine and take it down to the powder-coater and make it black! :bigok:
Don't worry, I'll be reporting my real world impressions as soon as I get a chance to get some! :banana: