Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: B12Teuton on April 25, 2005, 12:12:10 PM
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For the love of God, if you live anywhere near a BMW motorcycle dealer, go look at this bike.
This is exaclty what would have happend if BMW had built the Bandit 1200.
(http://www.moto-net.com/images/bmw_r1200st02.jpg)
(http://www.deutsche-motorradstrasse.de/modules/4nAlbum/album/Z/ST1.jpg)
Words and pics aren't enough. You have to see it in person and toss a leg over it. It's everything you love about the Bandit but BMWized.
A little sportier seating, but it feels so correct.
Air/oil cooled
1170cc
110hp
85lb-ft
452lbs dry
And pics don't do it justice. It looks a lot better in person.
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This is exaclty what would have happend if BMW had built the Bandit 1200.
Or maybe what would have happened if Suzuki made the Bandit for 15 large. :wink:
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This is exaclty what would have happend if BMW had built the Bandit 1200.
Or maybe what would have happened if Suzuki made the Bandit for 15 large. :wink:
No, even a $15K Suzuki (or Honda) isn't this good.
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I'll wait until I see actual dyno, and weight figures from an independent source. BMW always publishes exaggerated figures.
:duh: :blahblah:
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I'm not overly fond of the boxer engines anyways.....nothing specific...just don't like em....unless it's in a 911 turbo.
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I'll wait until I see actual dyno, and weight figures from an independent source. BMW always publishes exaggerated figures.
:duh: :blahblah:
From Motorcycle.com:
We just received an R 1200RT for further testing, and the first thing we did was strap it to our Dynojet. It appears that BMW was spot-on in their estimates; our new R 1200 RT just cranked out an honest 102.95Hp @ 7,300rpm and 80.95LbFt @ 6,250rpm at the tire. These are some mighty impressive numbers for an air/oil cooled boxer-twin
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One thing about the BMW boxer that has never stirred my soul is the sound...
seems boring, and agricultural.
I'll reserve final judgement on the styling once I see one in person, but so far it seems to be typical modern BMW styling - quirky. I know some bikes are like some people and just not very photogenic - and some bikes are a love-it-or-hate-it affair. I just wish BMW would either hire better stylists, or perhaps better yet, stick to more classic, traditional lines and quite trying to out-sex the Italians. Perhaps direct their energies for what made them famous - reliabilty, which seems to be on the decline lately.
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Good word, Paul. The styling is quirky. With apologies to the many Vstrom fans on the board, it is way too Vstrom-ish for me. That boxer engine has always looked really odd to me too. Sounds like it's a heck of a performer, though.
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One of the local bike mags (AMCN) did a right up on it. Gave it pretty good marks, but, sorry I'm not ready for a BMW yet and the price down under is to much for my back pocket - $21,500 plus on road costs, the B12 is currently going for $11,900 plus on road, and if you get the right dealer at the right time they'll throw in the on road costs for nothing.
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I can't get over the headlights in the windscreen. :duh: The rest not too bad though.They are making improvements in power and weight.They also it seems have finally figured out how to make FI work properly :congrats: but for pete's sake keep the car stylist away from the bikes.Twins are in.
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I totally agree that the styling is questionable in pics. I loved the concept of a lighter, high output boxer. But when I saw it in person it was just so much better than what you see in print. That's why I said you have to just go look at one in person.
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Have several guys on the V-Strom board that are ex BMW owners. Basically it all boils down to it that they ARE NOT worth the money. The DL1000 V-Strom is more powerful and will outrun a new GS1200. Also, from what many others riders say, is MUCH more dependable. If a BMW breaks down, first problem is dealer locations, second problem is the price for parts and labor. If a person wants to be in the "BMW club" so be it. I can think of all the money that I can save to modify my bike and have a dealer nearby almost anywhere I ride. I will take a Japanese bike or high performance car over any BMW, Benz or anything else with their crazy price tags!! :grin:
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I love German engineering. I admire Japanese engineering.
If Japan was competing against a 'Big Four' of German motorcycle manufacturers, I will guarantee you that the Japanese would produce bikes of equal or better quality for the same price. It would just be a lot more than we're used to paying.
The problem is... that BMW isn't competition to the Japanese Big Four. Harley is. How sad is that?
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I believe that the Japanese have done quite well against the German luxury car makers. Acura, Lexus and Infinity are truly amazing car companies that are really putting a thorn in the European luxury and high performance car companies. I agree, I have no doubt that if they wanted to bulid exotic motorcycles, they would do a marvelous job.
By the way PitterB4 I resent your remark about the V-Strom!! :stickpoke:
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That is a nice looking BMW bike! I could learn to love everything but the price. I spent just under 90,000 miles on BMW boxers. My '78 /7 met an early death (collision) but my R100/s (red smoke) was always reliable and spirited.
I drive a '85 735i, everything on the car works except the powered headrests. It uses no fluids other than gas, handles well, is a genuine pleasure to drive and work on, and looks very good inside and out.
My son's '87 325i is in slightly better shape than mine but uses a sip of oil between changes, probably always did.
One car is just under 200.000 miles the other just over. Both have made trouble free cross country runs at sustained "hwy" speeds. I found both for $3500. Both will easily last another 100,000 and most likely run much longer without any major repair.
The "BMW club" consists of loyal owners who love driving and riding, provide incredible mutual support for one another, and commonly take uncommonly good care of their equipment. Take a look around, you see more BMWs than ever.
A BMW bike may well be in my future someday, for me it would be like rejoining a very good friend. The new boxer looks fantastic to me!
In the meanwhile I love every minute on the b12 and feel now as I did when I bought it, that it is the best big bike for the bucks and that anything you want to change or upgrade is easily and inexpensively done, except that #!?!! headlight.
Steve
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BBurton - I apologized in advance! :lol: :beers:
Steve - good story about your cars. That's actually my strategy for my next car - to try and find a good, clean sub-100K 3-series for cheap (and maybe buy a B12 with the savings). :bigok:
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I've always liked BMW"s, but they don't have anything currently that I really 'lust' after.
My brother has a recent model 1150 RT. Just looking at the abundance of model specific modules, and controls for the gadgets, kind of makes me shudder thinking about evendoing simple maintenance and repairs on it.
I'm sure parts are $$$$$!
The Bandit has ruined me for exotic stuff. It has power, it's reliable, and you can buy aftermarket stuff for it without robbing a bank.
There's also not a dealer within 75 miles of me.
Now, if somebody would give me a '74 R90s, that's another story....
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AFAIK the newer BMW stuff is complex. My cars use double overhead cam straight six engines with screw & locknut valve adjusters, guess who does the tune ups. I use an independent shop for repairs that I don't do myself (like installing a fresh driveline during monsoon season (I work in the driveway) I haven't set foot in a BMW dealership except to go oogle and sit on one of the new "s" models, I refused the test drive I was offered. Last time I did that I bought the damn thing.
Parts $$$? Again owners will help each other find resources. I just did the front brakes, $45 each for new Ate rotors (Ate is a BMW OEM supplier) and $38 for the pad set for both sides. Mechanical coolness - the front calipers on the 7 are 4 pot calipers.
These are the same qualities that endear me to the Bandit. It is simple enough that a person can maintain it in the driveway between rain squalls, reliable enough that I don't care where the shop is, has neat bits and parts on it, is fast and powerful enough to scare hell out of me, comfortable enough to drain a few tanks in one day, and has earned a customer support base of enthusiasts willing to share the accumulated knowledge.
Steve
The DL1000 V-Strom is more powerful and will outrun a new GS1200
:roll:
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Sorry Steve, guess I was mistaken..... The new GS1200 has 100 claimed hp while the DL1000 has 98hp. :roll: Guys on the V-Strom board say the big Strom WILL run easily with a GS1200 and with a smaller pricetag and engine. Sure, there is the wonderful BMW fit and finish and all it's bling bling brakes and suspension, and the mystique of actually being the owner of one. Just can't justify the price "same feelings that I have for Harley as well". Take a Bandit put a little money in it, and it's hard to beat.... Take a V-Strom, put a little money in it and I'm pretty confident that it probably won't get beat in its class. :grin:
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Now there is where I see a world of difference. I have owned a 1200 Evo Sportster and a Buell Cyclone. Reliability was very poor in both cases. Performance? I used to love it when someone on a thundering HD would try to give the /s a run, never saw one keep up. Beemers are built to be ridden, not photographed.
I'm really glad that you are in love with your new bike! I'm curious to know how you feel after performing your first tune up. The b12 is fairly easy to work on ya know.
The thing that seemed oddest about your saying the V will "outrun" the Bandit is the aerodynamics not the power. The b12 really squats down into the road at high speeds, how will the taller fairing do?
Honest questions.. and how do your brakes compare? I absolutely love the brakes on my bike, I have goosed 'em up a bit though.
Steve
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I think that I see the problem now.... did you think that I said that the Strom will outrun the B12? If that is the case.. Hell No!!! Don't get me wrong, the Big Strom is plenty quick "engine is race bred ya know!" kinda like the big Bandit. :grin: I was comparing the Strom to the Beamers only..."except the new K1200s which is not of this earth!" The brakes are really good, I rate them up there with the B12, except I'll have to give the Strom the advantage in the rear brake department. Front brakes are tokico, rear brake is nissin. Rear brake power is pretty impressive. As far as handling is concerned, I rode my B12 pretty hard and I will say that I believe I can ride faster in twists and turns on the Strom than I ever could on the Bandit. I also enjoyed riding through a field recently on my in-laws property and several backroads. :motorsmile: Top end is limited to around 120mph, but easily fixed when you take out the secondary butterflies which restricts speed and redline in 4th and 5th. Bandits and Stroms are both underated bikes in my opinion, the motorcycle mags do nothing but gawk and slobber about the high price exotic bikes. They always pick bikes apart and talk about their shortcomings or downfalls. As we all know, the best bike is the one that you like. We live and ride in the real world, I try really hard not to pick apart bikes, but rather to identify what they do well. Screw all the other BS!!
PS: As far as maintenance goes, I think that some parts will be harder to service. I will give a big thumbs up to oil and filter changes. No big header set to contend with! Once the FI issues are resolved and tweaked, there really doesn't seem to be much maintenance.
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Acura, Lexus and Infinity are truly amazing car companies that are really putting a thorn in the European luxury and high performance car companies.
Yes, they are know as Honda, Toyota and Nissan. :blahblah: :roll:
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I think the biggest issue with the big Strom is the skinny front wheel/tire. You can have all the brakes in the world, but is your suspension is too soft and front tire too small, it's just physics at that point.
It also has a higher center of gravity.
It's just too apples and oranges to compare to a B12. Now I test rode a KTM950 Adventure last year and that was a hoot! Better comparison to the V-Strom.
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its an amazing looking thing. the new beamers are absolutly crazy like.
I had to go on a huge long car trip as a passenger because I broke my bandits brake disk and half the country away from where I live one of these pulled up and stopped outside the pub across the street.
i had to walk across the road and look at it. almost in tears thinking of my bike hundred of miles away in a garage.
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Yes, they are know as Honda, Toyota and Nissan.
Really... I didn't know that!!! :stickpoke: :duh:
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I think the biggest issue with the big Strom is the skinny front wheel/tire. You can have all the brakes in the world, but is your suspension is too soft and front tire too small, it's just physics at that point.
Front tire sure doesn't seem to slow me down in the corners, and as far as the suspension goes, it is a better stock setup than the Bandits. Not that I am gonna keep it stock! :lol:
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Not a big fan of the BMW mostly cause of price and dealer snootiness factor. Also Ive heard they have a tendency to blame the riders for probs (like check engine light) on new bikes.
Now anyone seen the new Triumph Sprint ST 1050? Its awesome 120hp speed triple with lots of torque, comfy sport touring posture and priced at $10,500. Id get one if I didnt have to go more in debt but love my Bandit12s...
heres a pic of the beauty...
http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/792.aspx
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The new Sprint ST is SWEET!!!!