Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: Red01 on August 26, 2008, 04:59:37 PM
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I suppose it's getting to be that time of year again when we start hearing of new models and rumors of new models. There'll be a new V-Max from Yamaha, which has been all over the press. A few weeks ago, MCN (UK) revived the 1000cc V5 VFR/Blackbird rumor (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2008/august/4-10/aug0708-alpinestars-casual-shoes/?&R=EPI-102181) with some artist concecpt illustrations:
Honda VFR gets V5 engine
By MCN Newsdesk
New bikes
07 August 2008 09:50
Honda has pulled out all the stops to showcase the finest technology ever seen on a road bike with the all-new VFR1000F and touring-spec VFR1000GT motorcycles.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/1VFR1000F.jpg)
Along with the sexiest VFR yet, Honda has finally succumbed and given us a road motorcycle with a V5 engine derived from the successful 990cc RC211V MotoGP machine.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/VFR1GT.jpg)
If that's not enough, they've also linked it to a Ferrari-style push-button gearchange for the fastest, smoothest gearchange yet seen, running through shaft drive with a trademark VFR single-sided swingarm.
To see the full story on these and more of Honda's 2009 motorcycles, pick up a copy of this weeks MCN (August 6), out now.
Ippo mentioned something about a Hayabusa based ST machine in another post... maybe something like this?
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/paulweit/Bandit%20Alley/Suzuki_Hayabusa_GT.jpg)
Anyone else hear of anything new (or rumored) and exciting?
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An ST version of the Busa would be great if they don't make the horrendous mistakes like the Z14 to C14 spawned. They just need to tweak the best attributes of the Busa into the best attributes of tried and test ST engineering, which defiantly leaves out the C14. Don't get me wrong, on paper it is a terrific bike but the laundry list of problems to cost ratio is just way to out off the chart to be acceptable unless you are a die-die hard fan.
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Well, if there really is a new VFR for 2009, it has peaked my interest. I'll have to follow up with a copy of MCN, but it looks too much like a photoshop hack to me...
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I hear ya Paul! Plus the V5 VFR rumor has been going on for a few years around this time, too. So, I'll believe it when I see Honda release some info and pics on their website. But it would be nice!
Gunner - I haven't been following the Connie that close lately. What's the laundry list consist of? I had heard of some heat issues early on, but the press doesn't seem to be mentioning it anymore. And I know the keyfob thing isn't well loved - is there more?
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I haven't been following the Connie that close lately. What's the laundry list consist of?
My buddy LOVES his. He did a 16,000 km (10,000 mile) shakedown when it was new. He did change a few things:
1. different windscreen - bigger. He said the stocker was FAR too small
2. lower pegs - he like lots of room
3. taller bars - as above
He traded in his 2002 Connie. He says the power and brakes are unbelievable. Comfort is good, with the above changes. No reliability issues in 25,000 kms in the first year.
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In a way I wish I Had kept a running tally but after the 10th chronic problem I lost count. Sad really as forum members seem to now shun anyone with a defect complaint that doesn't remain loyal. So its all smiles and optimism if you have been left stranded in the middle of your trip by the FOB otherwise they don't want to hear it anymore. Just to name a few: dash board melting due to overheated electronics and poor plastic, leg heat problems due to misaligned or missing insulation inside fairing, keyless FOB intermittent failure resulting in either mid ride shutdown and mid ride re-start failure due to EMF interference, weak batteries, or CPU errors, shaft gear and housing explosions due to failed bearings or misalignment, low end power deficiency and ruff running due to EFI mapping requiring remapping or removal of secondary flies just to carry two up in slow traffic, side case locking mechanism failures allowing unexpected jettison of side cases in the middle of a ride, premature brake and front disk warpage, tire pressure indicator failure and inaccurate readings due to elec component failures, passenger ride comfort a real issue due to hard seating and a passenger head buffeting and wobble related to the bikes aerodynamics, wind screen complaint of poor wind protection at any adjustment however wind screen hight playing a role in heat venting from engine into riders area so wind screen are better kept down for maximum cooling, new concerns over monoque frame cracking possibly inherited from the early ZX14 recalled design, fuel consumption seems to be a complaint with only 35MPG being the best people are quoting. There are more but I have lost track along with interest.
Gunner - I haven't been following the Connie that close lately. What's the laundry list consist of? I had heard of some heat issues early on, but the press doesn't seem to be mentioning it anymore. And I know the keyfob thing isn't well loved - is there more?
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I stopped in at the local Honda/Suzuki dealer yesterday to pick up a fresh can of Honda Spray Polish and chatted with the owner for a while. I asked what he knew of new models coming for '09 from either. He said he would be finding out about Honda's '09 lineup in a couple of weeks. I mentioned the VFR1000 rumor from MCN and he says he's been hearing strong rumors that this is very likely to be the year for it, but was afraid it's price might be high enough to scare away customers. He's hoping Honda will have something to compete with the SV & DL 650's as they are hot sellers for him and Honda doesn't have anything in that sort of niche. He didn't have anything on any new Suzuki models yet though.
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An ST version of the Busa would be great if they don't make the horrendous mistakes like the Z14 to C14 spawned. They just need to tweak the best attributes of the Busa into the best attributes of tried and test ST engineering, which defiantly leaves out the C14. Don't get me wrong, on paper it is a terrific bike but the laundry list of problems to cost ratio is just way to out off the chart to be acceptable unless you are a die-die hard fan.
Some of us Acronym deprived guys in the swamp are intrerested in what you've posted, but would wish that you would kindly elaborate.
Also:
Others have also posted on this. How?... do you lower pegs on Any of these. I've already bought "Gen Mar risers", for my Bandit for better ergometrics... same deal for front pegs on Suzi engine guards. It now works for large distances in road armour. I've seen ads for Hayabusas with "Heli Bars"... never for dropped pegs.
I dam near bought a Busa... twice. In both cases, the plan was that I'll sleep on it and tomorrow Im goint to do it.
In each case, I couldn't justify the riding position for more than short distances... and didn't buy.
Great thread, though. :thumb:
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He's hoping Honda will have something to compete with the SV & DL 650's as they are hot sellers for him and Honda doesn't have anything in that sort of niche.
Suzuki has dropped the SV1K from their line up. Do to poor sales.Maybe they'll keep the 650 around and I hope the DL.
Also read about the new R1 yesterday on the SV forum. Trickel down technology from the motogp. Crossplane crankshaft,each conecting rod 90* from the next wich gives a firing order-270*-180*-90*-180*. Fly-by-wire technology chip controlled intake thaht broadens the spread of power. D-MODE rider selectable throttle control maps (A&B) Lighter redesigned frame.
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Is it just me or why am I not seeing more manufactures offering ABS for '09? Just Suzuki, Honda and BMW? Vmax being the exception.
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An ST version of the Busa would be great if they don't make the horrendous mistakes like the Z14 to C14 spawned. They just need to tweak the best attributes of the Busa into the best attributes of tried and test ST engineering, which defiantly leaves out the C14. Don't get me wrong, on paper it is a terrific bike but the laundry list of problems to cost ratio is just way to out off the chart to be acceptable unless you are a die-die hard fan.
Some of us Acronym deprived guys in the swamp are intrerested in what you've posted, but would wish that you would kindly elaborate.
Also:
Others have also posted on this. How?... do you lower pegs on Any of these. I've already bought "Gen Mar risers", for my Bandit for better ergometrics... same deal for front pegs on Suzi engine guards. It now works for large distances in road armour. I've seen ads for Hayabusas with "Heli Bars"... never for dropped pegs.
I dam near bought a Busa... twice. In both cases, the plan was that I'll sleep on it and tomorrow Im goint to do it.
In each case, I couldn't justify the riding position for more than short distances... and didn't buy.
Great thread, though. :thumb:
For the acronym deprived: :bandit:
ST = Sport-Touring
Z14 = Kawasaki's Ninja ZX-14
C14 = Kawasaki's Concours 14
As for how to lower footpegs, the most common, and probably easiest way is to use footpegs from a XB9/12 Buell.
See this thread from a VFR board (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t18932.html) to show the difference between standard OEM Japanese bike pegs and the OEM Buell ones.
There's also this thread on a Busa board (http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=65656.0) that tells how to do it on a Happy Bus. I'm pretty sure this has even been done by a member or two here on their Bandit... and I've heard of these pegs being used on other bikes, too.
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Thanks for the info on lowering pegs, Red 01.
One other problem, as I see it, are the rediculously high exhausts on all of these bikes -Bandit included. In order to clear it, the bags have to be mounted very high. This makes a very high centre of gravity and my 36 Litre Givis should be much lower. I try to limit weight in the top bag, but with full touring crud, the bike is a somewhat of a chore to handle at slow speeds on uneven ground -gotta have the legs spread and be ready... no day dreaming. Add a duffle bag with a tent and camping gear -well you get the picture.
I think these high pipes are just style. My old Yamaha XS11 had low pipes and I never grounded 'em at all -just the pegs when heeled over hard. :waryeye:
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With more and more bikes having mufflers under the chassis, a ST model with such a system could have larger bags and still maintain a low CG. Even the VFR-ST version shown above could have been equipped with bigger bags. While the same thing can be accomplished with an undertail system, it seems every one of the bikes with this sort of system has heat issues for the rider and/or passenger.
The other thing that bugs me is very few bikes seem to be designed with passenger comfort in mind. Either the pillion seats and/or pegs are a token gesture to bring along a passenger. Seems the only ones that do think about the pillion are full-dress machines like the Gold Wing and HD touring models. What's up with that? Do the mfr's really think we never want to bring someone else along.
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Looks like the naked SV650 is being replaced by the SFV650 "Gladius"
(http://www.suzukicycles.com/images/ProductImages/logo/500/SFV650K9.jpg)
Yamaha is adding a FZ6R with a full fairing alongside the FZ6... probably to compete against the GSX650.
(http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/content/images/600/09MS_FZ6R_yel_S3_aa9918fc.jpg)
The R1 is all new for '09. The biggest news is it's crossplane crankshaft. What's that? In Yamaha's words:
In the supersport liter class, there’s always lots of talk about power. You expect that. What you wouldn’t have expected – until now – is a radically superior way to deliver that power. Introducing the 2009 YZF-R1, the first ever production motorcycle with a crossplane crankshaft. Crossplane technology, first pioneered in MotoGP racing with the M1, puts each connecting rod 90° from the next, with an uneven firing interval of 270°- 180°- 90°- 180°. This all but eliminates undesirable inertial crankshaft torque, which allows the engine’s compression torque to build smoothly and provide a very linear power delivery out of the corners. It’s a feeling that’s simply unmatched, like having two engines in one: the low-rpm torquey feel of a twin with the raw, high-rpm power of an inline 4. In fact, the new YZF-R1 is not a continuation of existing supersport development; it is breakthrough technology that represents a paradigm shift in both technology and performance.
(http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/content/images/600/09MS_YZFR1_wht_S3_11433650.jpg)
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Looks like the naked SV650 is being replaced by the SFV650 "Gladius"
(http://www.suzukicycles.com/images/ProductImages/logo/500/SFV650K9.jpg)
actually i sort of like this...other than the exhaust....
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Looks like Kawasaki will be bringing the ER6N (naked version of the Ninja 650 twin) to the US for '09. They've also drummed up a KLX250SF, a Supermoto version of the KLX250S, to compete with Yamaha. The more sedate 250 Super Sherpa dual sport also returns after being missing from the lineup for a while (at least in the US). The ZX6R is all-new for '09 and comes in black, blue, traditional Kawi Green and a Monster Energy graphics version, too. The ZX14 also gets a Monster Energy version.
Honda has announced it will be bringing the DN-01 concept to life for '09. Kind of a cross between sportbike, cruiser and scooter.
(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2006/Honda_DN-01_stpz.jpg)
The CRF230L will be available in a CRF230M Supermoto version.
The CBR1000RR & 600RR will have ABS versions.
The 781cc Interceptor returns - with no liter-class V5 stablemate once again. :annoy:
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ok so the crossplane crankshaft ends up being a cross between a 'big bang' engine firing order and a 'screamer' as in two of the cylinders fire at the same time (big bang) then the others are spaced out (screamer)? Odd but interesting, unless of course my sleep deprived mind has it all wrong.
Crossplane conversion in a GSF anyone? :trustme:
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Honda has announced it will be bringing the DN-01 concept to life for '09. Kind of a cross between sportbike, cruiser and scooter.
(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2006/Honda_DN-01_stpz.jpg)
I don't know about anybody else...............but I'd rather walk. :stickpoke:
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Honda has announced it will be bringing the DN-01 concept to life for '09. Kind of a cross between sportbike, cruiser and scooter.
(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2006/Honda_DN-01_stpz.jpg)
I don't know about anybody else...............but I'd rather walk. :stickpoke:
Well, if I had to choose between a Harley, a scooter and this, I'd ride it...
but then I had a scooter at one time and I've riden a HD before... and both beat walking. :rofl:
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ok so the crossplane crankshaft ends up being a cross between a 'big bang' engine firing order and a 'screamer' as in two of the cylinders fire at the same time (big bang) then the others are spaced out (screamer)? Odd but interesting, unless of course my sleep deprived mind has it all wrong.
Crossplane conversion in a GSF anyone? :trustme:
I think this is the technology Yamaha settled with after experimenting around with "Big Bang" and other revised firing orders.
To convert a traditional motor to something like this would also require new cams to go with that new crank. Shouldn't be a problem - if you've got the coin. I've heard of it being done with vertical twins (270* cranks, vs 360's or 180's), like the old Yamaha XS650 and the traditional Brit twins.
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To convert a traditional motor to something like this would also require new cams to go with that new crank. Shouldn't be a problem - if you've got the coin. I've heard of it being done with vertical twins (270* cranks, vs 360's or 180's), like the old Yamaha XS650 and the traditional Brit twins.
Oh i know it can be done, not having the coin it's the kind of project i want somebody else to tackle. :motorsmile:
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Honda has announced it will be bringing the DN-01 concept to life for '09. Kind of a cross between sportbike, cruiser and scooter.
(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2006/Honda_DN-01_stpz.jpg)
I don't know about anybody else...............but I'd rather walk. :stickpoke:
Well, if I had to choose between a Harley, a scooter and this, I'd ride it...
but then I had a scooter at one time and I've riden a HD before... and both beat walking. :rofl:
Both Harleys and scooters don't try to be something that they aren't. I'm not sure what this "thing" is trying to be. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it suffers from multiple personality disorder. I don't remember who first said this, but it pretty well sums it up............"I see from your outfit that you are a spaceman." :yikes:
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(http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/nouveautes2006/Honda_DN-01_stpz.jpg)
The only things I don't like about it are that it's an automatic tranny, it's 680cc, and it runs $14K. Otherwise, I really like the styling. Comfy seat, low maintenance shaft drive, good protection from the elements, low seat height, upright riding position. If they put in a gear shift, bumped it up to 1000cc to deliver some serious stonk, and dropped the price to under $10K, I'd give it a serious look.
Of course, ultimately the answer would be no because there's no way my wife is gonna to approve two motorcycles in the garage, and I'm not giving up the B1250. Ah, well. Maybe I'll finally hit the lottery.
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so this R1 thing really intrigued me...here's a vid that explains the crossplane-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTXMtTTKQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTXMtTTKQw)
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The thing that comes to mind when I see all these new concept bikes with new production technologies and their expensive music video advertisements and looks, is how these "new concept bike" that hit the market last year are such a reliability nightmare. That coupled with what we already know will be a ridiculous price tag in a downward spiraling economy make me wonder who the heck is going to buy these things? Perhaps the guys with the golden parachutes! Just when the bike market is screaming for tried and true bikes with only high performance, MPG, and cost value, manufactures and their marketing machines are all shifting into Captain America gear when main street buyers can barely afford Captain Crunch.
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Gunner, I love that last line, "Manufacturers and their marketing machines are all shifting into Captain America gear when main street buyers can barely afford Captain Crunch"
However, I understand the need for the fancy videos, and advertising. Without it no one buys your stuff, or knows what great next thing you've put on the bike to make them want to buy it. But it would be nice, if they'd build great value based bikes (like the Bandit) and advertised them with this kind of gusto. I guess the mentality is that the guys buying the most bikes aren't looking for "value" they're looking for "cool" and "fast".
Anyway, that Honda DN-01 could be painted dark grey on the top and white on the bottom with some red around that headlight and you'd swear you were seeing a great white shark rolling down the road. :-D
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I know - I know, but someone needs to point it out. But I suppose even in this case the market will correct itself even if its over a cliff LOL.
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The thing that comes to mind when I see all these new concept bikes with new production technologies and their expensive music video advertisements and looks, is how these "new concept bike" that hit the market last year are such a reliability nightmare.
I take it that comment is aimed at the Concours? I wouldn't exactly call it this year's concept bike. For starters, it was introduced to the press in 2006, scheduled for a late '07 intro as an early '08. Secondly, when introduced, it was widely known it was going to be a production bike, so IMHO, that's not a "concept bike," since it has styling similar to it's competitors and it was drawing heavily from the ZX-14. Sure, it has some gee-whiz tech to it - probably added to help lure buyers from the competition... even if that may have backfired on them.
The Honda Rune & Suzuki B-King were concept bikes that made it to production, though I haven't heard of any reliability nightmares with either of them - but then neither has any groundbreaking technology in their production versions, just groundbreaking styling.
That coupled with what we already know will be a ridiculous price tag in a downward spiraling economy make me wonder who the heck is going to buy these things? Perhaps the guys with the golden parachutes! Just when the bike market is screaming for tried and true bikes with only high performance, MPG, and cost value, manufactures and their marketing machines are all shifting into Captain America gear when main street buyers can barely afford Captain Crunch.
I agree that $14,599 is a little high for what the DN-01 is, but it doesn't seem outlandish. The only thing that's really groundbreaking about it is its styling - just like the Rune & B-King. The HFT transmission Honda brags about as being "an automatic unlike anything you've ever seen" sounds like it's just like the one Suzuki has been offering in the Burgman 650 scooter for several years now.
And if one is concerned about MPG and cost/value, you can always go out and buy the new CRF230M and get ~90 MPG for $4749 (or the dual-sport CRF230L version for an even cheaper $4549).
Or like you, they can still opt for the 1250 Bandit if they want to add performance to the equation. :thumb:
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With the economy in the US the way it is, I can understand some of it seeming questionable. Really a liter class sport bike in my opinion SHOULD be expensive and groundbreaking and aweinspring. Kind of like a ferrari, zonda, or lamborgini. I may not ever drive any of those cars and yet I can't help but appreciate them for what they are. However I DO think that if I made enough sacrifices owned an older car etc. I WOULD be able such a bike (most bikes in fact), the fact that I don't isn't so much the pricetag as a sense of being reasonable. I think anyone with a brand new car (which is lots of people) could afford even an expensive 14k + bike IF they chose to own an older cheaper car.
Bikes like the bandit offer even greater value and usability but overall in my mind most bikes are still a great value.
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Whew... I dunno Folks.. from my humble perspective it looks like '09 is going to be another stinker for me... only a few oddly-interesting baubles out there.
[sigh]
Seems like I have found myself way out on the bell-curve edge again. Even the SV1000S, which I felt was SO CLOSE to Pretty and Gritty seems to have vanished without so much as a re-design.
What happened to Honda's CB1100 projects? I really loved that CB1100F endurance-racer concept.
Any chance there'll be any more '09's still popping up.. or is that about it for the year?
Looks like I'll be re-invigorating up the old Midnight Bandit again. Nuthin' else looks good enough to replace it.
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Usually this is the time for new model announcements, but their could always be late comers. The CB concepts are a year or two newer than the DN-01, so maybe there's a chance they'll see production in the future. I'd guess the US wouldn't get the F model though. :roll: My guess is they'll just become dreams of what might have been, like most concept bikes.
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I realize affordability is a relative issue depending upon who you talk to but the reality is the way things are headed they are recommending 2 years annual income in cash savings encase we have another depression and the DOW falls to 1,200 (% of crash in 1929), and guess what we are half way there already in just 2 weeks. Having said that I don't even have a full 1 year earnings saved. So for me buying anything that is not essential is out of the question until the economy is back on track.
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So for me buying anything that is not essential is out of the question until the economy is back on track.
I hear ya!
I've been without a paycheck for a month now. :sad:
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Great thread, guys, and great pics, too.
Good old Honda....trying to see how far they can push the price envelope with that DN-01. Well, I won't be in the lineup to sign up for one.
As for the rest, I just haven't seen anything that lights my fire.....well, except for maybe the ST 'Busa.....but then that's just wishful thinking on my/our part. I can't imagine the Big S taking their flagship hot rod "down-market" into the ST category. Now if they took that motor and retuned it a bit and put it into an ST-style frame......Mmmm, mmmm, good. Sport-touring with a vengeance, IMO.
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Is it just me or why am I not seeing more manufactures offering ABS for '09? Just Suzuki, Honda and BMW? Vmax being the exception.
Yamaha's FJR also has standard ABS on both the "A" and "AE" models. Kawasaki offers an ABS option on the Concours 14, the ZX14/ZZR1400 (not in US market though) and their new Vulcan 1700 Voyager V-twin bagger. Harley also has ABS offered on some of their bikes now, too.
I do get the point though, there doesn't seem to be very many models where it's available as standard or at least an option... but more do seem to be added each year as time marches on.