Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: solman on September 04, 2007, 12:30:22 AM
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I went for a ride up into the mountains (Prescott, AZ). Once again, I ran into problems with cars not letting me pass or having to tail gate them a for a while. Some will pull over and others won't at all. It is times like today when I wish I was in Europe. Passing cars is a no issue from what I remember. You flash your lights a few times and the guy moves over. It isn't a hard concept!
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On the highways or in the city, San Antonio is a real PITA...but in the back roads of the hill country, the people are great about letting bikes go by. Stubborn cars can really ruin a good day of riding.
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I went for a ride up into the mountains (Prescott, AZ). Once again, I ran into problems with cars not letting me pass or having to tail gate them a for a while. Some will pull over and others won't at all. It is times like today when I wish I was in Europe. Passing cars is a no issue from what I remember. You flash your lights a few times and the guy moves over. It isn't a hard concept!
I hear you on this one and the bad side in CA., is the cops let them do this. I can not count the times on both hands I have followed a cop who was behind some very slow person who would not use turn outs down Hwy 74 and never pull them over even though the slow driver was breaking the law. I call it discriminatory traffic law enforcement. So any more, I will count three turn outs and if they refuse to use them, I will make sure I have enough passing room for my gixxer. Then I let them hear the sweat sound of my Gixxer at about 8 to 10K RPM as I go by about 3 feet from there car in second gear.
By the time they figure out what happen, I am usually about 1/2 mile down the road.
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Just don't end up like this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vqigsgJeK4
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Did you try turning that thing on the end of the right handlebar? (Just kidding)
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I've seen that video on the dragon. I have passed on the dragon before, and I am very picky on where I did it too. Trying to pass on the dragon while on a Harley is pretty funny.
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Did you try turning that thing on the end of the right handlebar? (Just kidding)
Not to be a smart ass but why not find a safe place to pass an move on with your day?
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I am confused(not difficult to do)...Not sure I understand what we are talking about. What are turn outs? I rarely get stuck behind a car for too long...but we have mostly straight roads. Still though- I do not expect a car to pull off the side of the road to let me pass if they are doing the speed limit.
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I am confused(not difficult to do)...Not sure I understand what we are talking about. What are turn outs? I rarely get stuck behind a car for too long...but we have mostly straight roads. Still though- I do not expect a car to pull off the side of the road to let me pass if they are doing the speed limit.
A turn out in California is any area big enough for a vehicle to move into and out of safely. Which they are required to do, but rarely use.
In CA we have a law that govern that. If you are doing the speed limit and still holding up traffic, you are breaking the law by impeding the flow of traffic.
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There seem to be several US states where use of pull-outs is mandatory to prevent impeding traffic. Washington has the same concept.
I do not expect a car to pull off the side of the road to let me pass if they are doing the speed limit.
Not sure what the actual rules are, but I have had MANY cars, trucks, campers, etc, pull off into a pull-out to let me by. It's really nice. Being from B.C., where there are not a lot of passing lanes, and cars DON'T pull off to let you by, it is always a pleasent surprise.
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Yup, WA's law is if you impede 5 or more vehicles, you must pull over and let them by at the first safe place to do so.
RCW 46.61.427
Slow-moving vehicle to pull off roadway.
On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow moving vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in a line, shall turn off the roadway wherever sufficient area for a safe turn-out exists, in order to permit the vehicles following to proceed. As used in this section a slow moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place.
In WA, if the lead vehicle was doing the speed limit, it could not be impeding flow because to exceed the speed limit is reckless driving.
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Ah, in Florida and Wisconsin, there are no turnouts. On a slightly different subject, in Florida, you can't pass on the right, unless it's a 4 lane road (or a 3 lane with 2 on your side). In Wisconsin, you can pass on the right when someone is stopped to turn left when there is a safe spot to do that. There are some places that do have short lanes for that.
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We here have turn out, or slow vechile lanes, which by law must be used, but, yes thats a huge assed but, our beloved law enforcement agencies would much rather chase you down for speeding 5 kph over the limit, than book buttwipes, for failing to have even the smallest amount of road sense, but hey, thats road safety Australian style.
But yes I must agree, one of my favorite roads, can be a total nightmare, with no overtaking spots for miles, if one was to caught up behind
Mr and Mrs Rubberneck, and their friends Mr and Mrs We Will all die if we go faster than 40KPH. But thats Life and I find its better to pull over, let the dog go have a pee, pretend I was a smoker again, roll a number and chill for 10
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Did you try turning that thing on the end of the right handlebar? (Just kidding)
Not to be a smart ass but why not find a safe place to pass an move on with your day?
When you are in the twisties, waiting to find a place to pass may take a while and ruin a lot of good riding.
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Okay- thanks for the explainations guys. we don't have those laws here in the south. But still- if you are wanting a 'spirited' ride in the twisties- you are prolly well exceding the posted speed limit in the process...at least I am to have fun. Hard to blame the cars for driving the speed limit.
Now I am no prude- I like to haul ass. and a huge peeve of mine it the left lane 'cruisers'. but hard to be down on a 18 wheeler doing all he can on a twisty road. He isn't in my way on purpose.
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Yup, WA's law is if you impede 5 or more vehicles, you must pull over and let them by at the first safe place to do so.
RCW 46.61.427
Slow-moving vehicle to pull off roadway.
On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow moving vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in a line, shall turn off the roadway wherever sufficient area for a safe turn-out exists, in order to permit the vehicles following to proceed. As used in this section a slow moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place.
In WA, if the lead vehicle was doing the speed limit, it could not be impeding flow because to exceed the speed limit is reckless driving.
Actaully it could be challenged based on what I see here and the key words are: normal flow of traffic
So if the speed limit is say 55MPH and you have the traffic flow moving at 60MPH, the guy doing 55 is in fact breaking the law you posted. Even though he was doing the speed limit.
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Nice try Bill! I like your way of thinking...
Unfortunately, WA has that train of thought covered by TWO laws.
RCW 46.61.400
Basic rule and maximum limits.
(1) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing. In every event speed shall be so controlled as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person, vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to use due care.
(2) Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subsection (1) of this section, the limits specified in this section or established as hereinafter authorized shall be maximum lawful speeds, and no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed in excess of such maximum limits.
(a) Twenty-five miles per hour on city and town streets;
(b) Fifty miles per hour on county roads;
(c) Sixty miles per hour on state highways.
The maximum speed limits set forth in this section may be altered as authorized in RCW 46.61.405, 46.61.410, and 46.61.415.
(3) The driver of every vehicle shall, consistent with the requirements of subsection (1) of this section, drive at an appropriate reduced speed when approaching and crossing an intersection or railway grade crossing, when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest, when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway, and when special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions.
RCW 46.61.465
Exceeding speed limit evidence of reckless driving.
The unlawful operation of a vehicle in excess of the maximum lawful speeds provided in this chapter at the point of operation and under the circumstances described shall be prima facie evidence of the operation of a motor vehicle in a reckless manner by the operator thereof.
We are allowed to speed when passing on a two-lane roadway (one lane in each direction).
RCW 46.61.425
Minimum speed regulation — Passing slow moving vehicle.
(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law: PROVIDED, That a person following a vehicle driving at less than the legal maximum speed and desiring to pass such vehicle may exceed the speed limit, subject to the provisions of RCW 46.61.120 on highways having only one lane of traffic in each direction, at only such a speed and for only such a distance as is necessary to complete the pass with a reasonable margin of safety.
(2) Whenever the secretary of transportation or local authorities within their respective jurisdictions determine on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that slow speeds on any part of a highway unreasonably impede the normal movement of traffic, the secretary or such local authority may determine and declare a minimum speed limit thereat which shall be effective when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected. No person shall drive a vehicle slower than such minimum speed limit except when necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.
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What does RCW 46.61.120 say?
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What does RCW 46.61.120 say?
I didn't really think anyone outside of WA would be that interested, especially as far away as WI, but here you go: :bandit:
RCW 46.61.120
Limitations on overtaking on the left.
*** CHANGE IN 2007 *** (SEE 5078-S.SL (http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2007-08/Pdf/Bills/Session%20Law%202007/5078-S.SL.pdf)) ***
No vehicle shall be driven to the left side of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing other traffic proceeding in the same direction unless authorized by the provisions of RCW 46.61.100 through 46.61.160 and unless such left side is clearly visible and is free of oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit such overtaking and passing to be completely made without interfering with the operation of any traffic approaching from the opposite direction or any traffic overtaken. In every event the overtaking vehicle must return to an authorized lane of travel as soon as practicable and in the event the passing movement involves the use of a lane authorized for vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, before coming within two hundred feet of any approaching traffic.
And in case you're wondering what RCW46.61.100 through 46.61.160 have to say, just click here for WA's Rules of the Road (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61) and you can click on any of our traffic laws.
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If a vehicle isn't able to move over, then I have to suck it up. It just upsets me when I flash my lights and we pass multiple spots for them to safely pull over and let me pass.
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But yes I must agree, one of my favorite roads, can be a total nightmare, with no overtaking spots for miles, if one was to caught up behind
Mr and Mrs Rubberneck, and their friends Mr and Mrs We Will all die if we go faster than 40KPH. But thats Life and I find its better to pull over, let the dog go have a pee, pretend I was a smoker again, roll a number and chill for 10
I don't have that problem on my favourite road, then again it's not nicknamed "Gods Road" for nothing :lol: :lol:
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I don't know what the problem is with passing cars, guys... Our Bandits (G1, G2, G3 or G4, depending how you figure it!) can all pass a car with a crack of the throttle in a few seconds... ???
How much space do ya need? :bandit: :motorsmile:
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I don't know what the problem is with passing cars, guys... Our Bandits (G1, G2, G3 or G4, depending how you figure it!) can all pass a car with a crack of the throttle in a few seconds... ???
How much space do ya need? :bandit: :motorsmile:
Given some of the roads I ride on, and more importantly some of the idiot drivers/riders we have around here, the more space the better.
It's pretty scarry when you have to take evasive action to avoid a head on with another BIKE that's on YOUR side of the road. :taz: :taz:
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I don't know what the problem is with passing cars, guys... Our Bandits (G1, G2, G3 or G4, depending how you figure it!) can all pass a car with a crack of the throttle in a few seconds... ???
How much space do ya need? :bandit: :motorsmile:
I can travel a lot in a few seconds, but so can the traffic coming the opposite direction.
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What sol said - plus some of those twisty roads just don't have the visibilty for even the fastest bikes to make a safe pass very often and I think that's what this whole topic has been about.
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If it is not safe to pass, then don't., but we riders do not have the right to tell drivers of cars, that are within the speed limits, that they have to pull off the road to let us by so we can speed.
This may be a reason some car drivers do not like motorcycles. :motorsmile:
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If it is not safe to pass, then don't., but we riders do not have the right to tell drivers of cars, that are within the speed limits, that they have to pull off the road to let us by so we can speed.
This may be a reason some car drivers do not like motorcycles. :motorsmile:
Exactly. If the cars are going the speed limit, then the only reason to pass them is because you want to ride above the speed limit. Which is breaking the law, but I'm guessing most of us do that quite regularly whether we admit it or not. :bandit:
What sol said - plus some of those twisty roads just don't have the visibilty for even the fastest bikes to make a safe pass very often and I think that's what this whole topic has been about.
Is THAT what the topic is about? Gee, I had no idea... :roll: (oops, there I go with the "roll eyes" icon again!) :bandit:
My point is, if we are passing cars a lot, chances are we are riding above the speed limit, which is breaking the law. And many folks will say that is unsafe, and that's why the speed limit is there in the first place (excluding obvious speed traps).
However, I think most of us will agree that our motorcycles handle much better and stop much quicker than cars do, therefore making it possible for us to ride at higher speeds safely.
Most double-tellow lines and "no passing" zones are established with automobiles in mind. But we all know our bikes can pass a car in about 1/3 the time and space that a car can. (1/3 is a rough estimate based on my own experience, nit-pick if you like.)
So my point is, if you are already breaking the law speeding, then breaking the law by passing on a double-yellow is no different. And doing it safely is just as easy as speeding safely. Either way, the car drivers aren't going to be happy.... but neither will they be happy if you're behind them.
If you are riding a spirited pace, then cars in the way are just a part of the game, why complain about it? There are many ways to pass cars in very short stretches safely, like anticipating and hanging back, waiting to accelerate at an open spot so that you are already overtaking the car when it opens up to pass. You can get by in 2-3 seconds if you time it right.
As far as passing slow traffic under the speed limit, well, the slower the car is, the faster and easier you can pass.
Just my 2 cents. :motorsmile:
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Well ZenMan, your answer sounds like a typical politician answer or police officer answer. We all know what is going on when it comes to operating a vehicle. Everybody breaks the law in some form whether it be speeding, or running a red light. My point is if I want to pass because they are going too slow of a pace, it would be nice if they pulled over and let me by. One of two things is going to happen, either I will be upset behind them, or they will be upset behind me. If they are behind me, they will soon disapear from my mirrors and be a distant memory. :motorsmile:
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Well ZenMan, your answer sounds like a typical politician answer or police officer answer.
Huh? :shock: What police officer is going to suggest passing on a double yellow? :lol:
And hey, please don't insult me by comparing me to a politician, ok? :annoy: :taz: :stickpoke:
Solman, I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not telling you how to ride, or being "holier-than-thou". I go over the speed limit all the time. I pass on double-yellows all the time. And I do it quickly and safely, even though I know it pisses the cagers off. Cagers are always pissed off anyway, whaddya gonna do? :bandit:
My point is if I want to pass because they are going too slow of a pace, it would be nice if they pulled over and let me by.
And my point is, if they are going the speed limit, why should they? If we want to speed, then it's our problem, right? That's all I'm saying... if we choose to ride fast, then passing cars just goes with the territory. Isn't that why we ride "hooligan" bikes? :motorsmile:
I just pass the dang cars and cook it down the road. I don't complain because they won't pull over just to let my special speeding bad-boy butt by. :lol: :stickpoke:
Like you said... put 'em in your mirrors and forget about 'em. :motorsmile:
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I agree with ya Zen. Like I said, get around 'em and move on with your day. If I've ridden someone so much that the move over, I actually feel bad about it (unless they were REALLY poking along).
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Usually, I only get short with them if they're either significantly ( i.e. 15% or more under the speed limit) or if they're up and down ( drifting between 90 and 110 for instance)
Of note is that here anyway, it's illegal to drive on the shoulder, and you can be busted for it. So,... if friendly cager moves over for you, and you're passing, they can be busted. It's a bit of a deterrent here. Many of us do it still, but carefully, when it's clear of the damn sheriffs that are just glorified tax collectors.
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Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying. :ducking:
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Huh? :wink:
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Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying. :ducking:
No problemo. :wink:
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Usually, I only get short with them if they're either significantly ( i.e. 15% or more under the speed limit) or if they're up and down ( drifting between 90 and 110 for instance)
Of note is that here anyway, it's illegal to drive on the shoulder, and you can be busted for it. So,... if friendly cager moves over for you, and you're passing, they can be busted. It's a bit of a deterrent here. Many of us do it still, but carefully, when it's clear of the damn sheriffs that are just glorified tax collectors.
Sooooo... do you take a calculator everywhere and work on that 15%??? :stickpoke: And what's wrong with going 90 - 110??? I do it all the time. :lol:
On a serious note... the driving on shoulder thing is absolutely correct. I got stopped by Arkansas's finest a couple of weeks ago for "crossing the white line" - went about 10 feet to a gas station turn-in because traffic was stacked up at a stop-sign. Mr. Trooper did not crack a smile, was not friendly nor appoligetic.... but he did let me off with an unwritten warning.
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I don't know what the problem is with passing cars, guys... Our Bandits (G1, G2, G3 or G4, depending how you figure it!) can all pass a car with a crack of the throttle in a few seconds... ???
How much space do ya need? :bandit: :motorsmile:
Problem there is, the roads we like to play on, a few seconds, of sight ahead is just not there. They also are posted with double white centre lines. Many a rider on the 2 spurs ride have come to grief, in just that manner, on bikes way more powerful than our bandits.
Pull over in a nice safe spot, pretended to be a smoker, roll a number and chill. The 2 spurs run takes on average 1 rider per week, in the dry months. And I lay money that a good percentage is due to rider frustration, and overtaking where one shouldn't think of it.
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Sooooo... do you take a calculator everywhere and work on that 15%??? :stickpoke:
Mental Math exercises, feeds the OCD, and keeps me from falling asleep on the long straight stretches. :wink:
And what's wrong with going 90 - 110??? I do it all the time. :lol:
Ahh!! On your side of the border 90-110 mandatory court appearance, on my side of the border, good way to get rear-ended. I like to be able to set my cruise control or settle into a "wrist position" on the bike, and having to keep adjusting because the person in front of me can't hold a steady speed makes me crazy. Especially cos, invariably I encounter them on a 2 lane highway with no opportunity to pass. :rant2: :banghead: