Author Topic: Pics of 2007 1250/S from Biketoberfest (Read 23486 times)

Bob Holland · « **Reply #60 on:** January 25, 2007, 02:15:45 PM »

Quote from: "Red01"

Here we go - a comparison chart of the 2006 B12 and the 2007 B12.5, courtesy of the French Motostation:

I don't know how to read this dyno chart. Torque is measured, and horsepower is caculated from torque,
Torque x RPMs / 5252 = Horsepower.
At 5252 rpms, torque and horsepower has got to be the same,(because that is the number the caculation is based on) below 5252 rpm, torque is always higher than horsepower, above 5252rpm, horsepower is always greater than torque, and I don't see that on this chart. I'm not saying that it is wrong, I am saying that I don't understand it.

I see that it is two different scales, but even considering that, they don't match up.

pmackie · « **Reply #61 on:** January 25, 2007, 02:55:21 PM »

Yea BHolland, now that you point it out, this dyno chart does look suspect. I guess we'll all have to wait for a couple of more magazine tests to really confirm.

As I'm riding a "little" 600, all of these 1200/1250 numbers look pretty impressive, but I find it nice that I can use all of the 65 +/- HP of the 600 on most rides. It's still faster than I want to go most of the time.

Even though I'm skiing tommorrow, I hope winter ends soon. I Wanna Ride!

Red01 · « **Reply #62 on:** January 25, 2007, 02:56:59 PM »

You're right BH! The 5252 thing totally escaped me.

A couple of things that always bugged me about the 5252 thing - and maybe you can explain it to me...

1) How would you dyno an engine that redlines lower than 5252 RPM?

2) What about the lions share of diesels out there that have TQ numbers that are always higher than the HP? (and usually these redline before 5252 RPM)

Bob Holland · « **Reply #63 on:** January 25, 2007, 04:24:44 PM »

If an engine turns 4000 rpms and the torque is 100 ft lbs at 4000,
100 x 4000 =400000 / 5252 = 76.161 HP

All horsepower means for an engine is, torque at a given rpm. Its just eaiser to say.

I believe the chart is right, we just do not know how to convert it to what we understand.

ZenMan · « **Reply #64 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:04:09 PM »

You guys are right, the chart is confusing.

As far as I can tell, the horsepower and torque are equal where the two red lines intersect, right at 100 HP and 6500 RPM, not 5252 RPM. 100 HP seems reasonable enough though.

I've found NO horsepower estimates for this bike yet.

As soon as I get it past the initial break-in, I'm going to take it to the dyno and get my base numbers, which I'll post here as soon as I can. In the meantime I'll be curious to see any reviews or dyno charts anyone comes up with...

Red01 · « **Reply #65 on:** January 25, 2007, 05:14:56 PM »

Quote from: "ZenMan"

I've found NO horsepower estimates for this bike yet.

I guess you missed it when I posted this scan last fall from the French Moto Revue magazine when I was in France.

I'm guessing 130 CH is the crank horsepower estimate, not rear wheel... and from the graph we've seen, that's a little optimistic.
(CH is the French abbreviation for horsepower.)

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #66 on:** January 25, 2007, 07:12:00 PM »

Is it me or is the small picture in the lower right hand side of that poster a B12 air cooled? maybe a comparison in the French text?

LowRyter · « **Reply #67 on:** January 25, 2007, 07:50:14 PM »

at 5252RPM torq = hp

that is the standard formula

ZenMan · « **Reply #68 on:** January 25, 2007, 08:13:22 PM »

Quote from: "Red01"

Quote from: "ZenMan"
I've found NO horsepower estimates for this bike yet.

I guess you missed it when I posted this scan last fall from the French Moto Revue magazine when I was in France.

I'm guessing 130 CH is the crank horsepower estimate, not rear wheel... and from the graph we've seen, that's a little optimistic.
(CH is the French abbreviation for horsepower.)

I guess I did miss it.... since I wasn't a member until Dec. 8th!

Yep, I agree that 130 horsepower seems optimistc. I don't know what it's worth guessing anymore... but I'd guess it's somewhere between 100 and 130. Maybe 115?

As I've said before... whatever the stock HP's are, that catalytic converter has got to be holding it back a lot. I can't wait to get my hands on it and see what's inside that big can.

Bob Holland · « **Reply #69 on:** January 25, 2007, 08:48:26 PM »

With only what little I know about this 1250, and other Suzuki inline 4s, I think that this engine can easily make 160 RWHP, if we can get the right cams and pistons.
I wish the throttle bodies were 40 mm instead of 36, but it come with bigger valves. With cams and high compression pistons you should be able to move peak torque to around 7500 rpms, and peak horsepower to around 10,000 rpms .
85 Ft lbs of torque at 10,000rpms would be 161 HP.
My problem is that I have to wait until someome buys one and then wants to sell it so I can get it for the right price, and then spend a couple thousand to build the engine.
It will proabally be a year or two before I get that chance.

ZOOMER · « **Reply #70 on:** January 26, 2007, 12:13:24 PM »

Wow! 160 horsepower? You think so huh? Dude, I hope you get your hands on one soon then. I'd love to hear how you're gonna do that! I'd like to get that much power out of mine too, eventually!

JamieK · « **Reply #71 on:** January 26, 2007, 12:47:36 PM »

Quote from: "CWO4GUNNER"

Is it me or is the small picture in the lower right hand side of that poster a B12 air cooled? maybe a comparison in the French text?

Yes the little picture is an 06 B12S (non-abs model)

Bob Holland · « **Reply #72 on:** January 26, 2007, 01:34:03 PM »

Quote from: "ZOOMER"

Wow! 160 horsepower? You think so huh? Dude, I hope you get your hands on one soon then. I'd love to hear how you're gonna do that! I'd like to get that much power out of mine too, eventually!

This is what I have to get 155 HP from the 1246 oil cooled,
I think the 1250 should do better than that.

1998 Suzuki Bandit, J&E 13 to 1- 1246 Piston Kit, Lazer Level 3 Ported Head w/ over-size stainless steel, 30mm intake and 26mm exhaust, valves, APE bronze valve guides, Heavy Duty Valve Springs. CamMotion G21 Cams w/ Slotted Sprockets, Holeshot top end oiler kit, Mikuni 38mm Flatslide Carbs with K-N Pod Filters.
155 RWH, 94 ft lb torque,
9.78 et at 139.84 mph best ¼ mile.

ZenMan · « **Reply #73 on:** January 27, 2007, 01:02:51 AM »

Bob,checked out your site. Nice Bandit you have there! Pretty impressive numbers on the dyno run, especially the air/fuel graph, looks like you've got her tuned in pretty good.

I was wondering how much have you worked with digital fuel injection?

My aspirations for the 1250 are nowhere near what you've acheived for the race track... my goal is to get good all-around performance without getting inside the engine... at least not for awhile. I want to keep her on pump gas, and get decent mileage, but still tweak a few more horses out of it.

I plan on upgrading the exhaust first, maybe with a tuneable can like the Supertrapp internal disc, and plug-in programmable fuel injection and ignition module. Maybe air box/filter mods. I'm guessing I can get about 120+ horsepower and around 85-90 ft.lbs. torque just getting it tuned in good with these mods, and keep it above 40 mpg average.

I believe that's realistic. If I can do it for under $1K I'd be pretty satisfied with those specs. It would make for a very spirited sport-tourer and decent hot-rod with the bags off too...

Red01 · « **Reply #74 on:** January 27, 2007, 11:41:28 AM »

Quote from: "ZenMan"

Quote from: "CWO4GUNNER"
Well its official the new B1250 has only 98 HP

Uh, would you mind posting a link for that, or at least name your source?

I don't know if this is the same link Gunner found or not, but it has the same info - and is translated from French, as it appears Gunner's info was.

France's Moto-Station comparison of the Suzuki GSF1250S ABS and the Honda CBF1000 ABS

Or maybe he got it from Moto-Station's "First Test" of the B12.5 (linked on page 2 of the above artilce) - where it's compared to the '06 air/oil cooled B12?

A few interesting snipets from the B12/B12.5 comparison:

Quote

During the tests of acceleration, to 50 km/h, at 90 km/h or 130 km/h, the 1250 leaves in front of, without any chance to be caught up with…

Quote

Also let us announce that the vibrations present on the engine at cooling air/oil around 4.500/5 000 tr/min practically disappeared on its substitute.

Also of note in the B12 vs B12.5 comparo, they list BOTH bikes as producing "98 ch" - just the 1250 got there 1000 rpm sooner.