Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: kevinfromrex on August 14, 2006, 04:10:22 PM
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Ive got a 2001 GSF600S in great shape, nice bike, had it about 2 months really having a good time. Its my first sportbike, Ive been riding mx and cruisers (metric and amaerican) for 35 years (43 yrs old).
I want to keep my 600 but I am looking for a comfortable sportbike with fairing that has roll on wheelie power. I find the 600 kinda light for the open road.
I dont like riding GSXRs and the like very far too uncomfortable but maybe ZX-12R? ZX-11, CBR1100XX, what do you like?
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Naked second generation B 1200. I love it!
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"Comfortable sportbike"
"Don't like GSXRs"
"Roll on wheelies"
Naked sportbikes sorta define what you're looking for.
But you go and screw it up by saying you want fairings.
The bikes you list are (ZX12, XX), I guess, classified as sportbikes.
But they're not sportbikes, they're sporty bikes.
I owned a Hayabusa and loved it... I thought it was "OK" comfort wise stock, but loved it "more" when I put some $40 handlebar risers on it.
I've heard nothing but good re: the XX in terms of performance and comfort.
Let us know what you end up with.
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FWIW, of the bikes you list, they'll all power wheelie easily in first gear.
None of them are going to "easily" power it up in second, unless you have serious technique or about $1500 in mods.
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Dont get me wrong I like seeing engine and framework on bikes, however I require something to break the air over me in some form of fairing. 80 miles and hour is my hometown of Atlantas standard highway cruising speed, speeds of 80 plus about blow me off my bike, Im 6 foot 1 and 250 rather extra wide pounds, I catch alot of wind.
I like the look of the ZX-12R, but is it comfortable enough to do some high speed touring on? I dont expect FJ1300 comfort but I am looking for more performance than that.
It my understanding that a ZX-12R will pull the front end in 1st or 2nd stock. I think the CBR1000XX has about 15 less horsepower and maybe (im guessing) a slightly longer wheelbase. Possibly it cant wheelie under power in second, only 1st? I dont know, But I know alot of guys around town swear by the blackbird for high speed cruising.
Id love a ZX-12R with only a small fairing like my Bandit S, or a blackbird, maybe Kawaski will make a naked or semi ZX-14?
Not a hayabusa fan, awfull ugly and uncomfortable for my size frame (love the power though! and suzuki bullet proof engine)
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Sorry, I don't know if the ZX12 will loft it in second on power alone.
I imagine there will need to be technique, at a minimum.
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i had a zx12r and they will come up of the power in second, you need loads of practice to catch it every time though, use the clutch in second and they come up dead easy :grin:
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Trade in the 600 for any 2 gen Bandit 1200. Ergos feel about the same and you'll have all the power you'll ever need.
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A Naked bike that has no problem with this is a CB900f ( Hornet 919) from Honda. It has a "re-tuned" fireblade engine in it, so it's not lacking for power. I have pulled the wheel up in first without trying, as well, I'm sure it's been close a few times in 2nd. (Perhaps I should keep my temper under control :roll: )
And insurance is cheap, cos it's not on the radar yet.
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Im confused I thought most sports bikes will role on wheelie in first, second and even third. Ive never done a wheelie in my life ive only been riding my B6 this summer so im still a learner really.
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Im confused I thought most sports bikes will role on wheelie in first, second and even third.
Most bikes (600 CC and above) can do it in first. A really torquey (sp?) bike can do it in higher gears. To roll a wheelie ( i.e. no help from the clutch) generally, the bike has to be able to be able to accelerate fast enough to overpower the front wheel.
Now, keep in mind that your bike is between 450 and 500 lbs wet, and the engine as a major weight component, is at the front, and low. Encouraging the bike to stay on the ground essentially.
Really, the issue with wheelies is the same as the reason most any vehicle on the road will never out accelerate us. Power : Weight.
The best way to do wheelies in 1,2, 3, and 4th gears is to get a dirtbike. My KTM 200EXC does roll on wheelies in 1,2,3,and 4. Haven't tried 5 or 6. It weighs 235 lbs, and has gobs of torque. Some times it becomes a matter of trying to keep the front down, rather than letting it up.
At that point also, you're going to be keeping your wheelies where it's safer for you to be doing them. Cops don't appreciate them, and while you're learning especially, crashes are a fact of life. Not to mention the stress and damage that wheelies do to a street bike. (Chain, sprockets, fork seals, I've even heard that the weld where the steering stem attaches to the frame takes a hell of a beating. I'd believe it.)
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To be fair, dirtbikes are geared to top out at ... what, 75mph?
They're "torquey" --- somewhat. They're also light as hell, and have this thing called a huge rear sprocket.... LOL.
ZX10s will definitely bring the front end up in 2nd without any work.
But there are *few* stock bikes that will just whack the front end up in 2nd --- it'll take some technique.
It's not like a bandit 1200 in first gear... there's no technique involved... just twist the throttle quickly... :)
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To be fair, dirtbikes are geared to top out at ... what, 75mph?
They're "torquey" --- somewhat. They're also light as hell, and have this thing called a huge rear sprocket.... LOL.
All true. I was also inferring that wheelies are safer on the dirt, wherein 75mph is reserved for the truly insane. ( a la the guys in "Dust to Glory")
20 - 30 ft lbs of torque on a dirt bike is enough to easily land yourself on your rear and have you buying rear fenders, if you're not paying attention. Mostly cos of the power to weight ratio I mentioned. In the dirt, that's way more than enough. :wink:
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some good advice stormi, I had a play on a kymco 125 yesterday and as the weather will be getting worse in the next month or so im really tempted to sell my B6 and get a road legal dirt bike around 400cc. Then I wont be so annoyed getting caught in the rain I can get filthy instead :grin: . I did have a look at some dirt bikes on bike trader but cant belive how pricey they are older bikes going for more than my mint B6 K3. I'm looking for a cheap fairly big bore that I can abuse.
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the cb900 (919) has good power, about 110 hp, but I like a little wind protection, Im a very wide 6 foot 1, 250 lbs and the over 80 mph cruise gets tiring acting as a huge air brake.
I like the bandit 1200 S with about 105 hp stock but I was looking for a stock engine with more. The Z1000 kawasaki is kinda weird looking and the pipes are hideous. I like the ZX-12R power, but I hear its sensitive to oil level and there have been quite a few motor failures?
Ive owned YZ yamahas that can wheelie whenever you want, but the on street and a 425 to 565 pound sportbike is a different animal.
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Do more research on the 12R --- you are not going to break the motor.
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the cb900 (919) has good power, about 110 hp, but I like a little wind protection, Im a very wide 6 foot 1, 250 lbs and the over 80 mph cruise gets tiring acting as a huge air brake.
I picked up a windscreen for my 919, and it seems to be the best of both worlds for me. Of course, I ride without it most of the time, and am only 5'4". I do commute into the city regularly though, and have some trouble keeping it under 80mph (indicated) lately.... :shock:
Ive owned YZ yamahas that can wheelie whenever you want, but the on street and a 425 to 565 pound sportbike is a different animal.
Why are you so gung ho about wheelies anyway?? To me the risk is too great, crashes, lost licenses, wrecked parts on the bike... I never have "gotten" that wheelie thing on public roads.
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Wheelies are flat out addictive.
Even after a misdemeneaor "exhibition of speed" :duh: fine and pain, I can't stop.
Every chance I get, I'm busting a big fat wheely and riding the bike into the rev-limiter, and having the front end come crashing down.
I don't give a shit.
It's some phallic thing I suppose.
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I should mention one thing: I do have a rule when doing a wheely.
I only do it on divided roads, and there can be no cars in front of me.
i.e., I usually come to a stoplight, filter up to the front, then take off on one wheel.
i.e., I try to remove the chance that if I phuck up a wheely, that I don't crash into a car or pedestrian.
:motorsmile:
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Oh dont get me wrong, Im not hung up on wheelies, Im hung up on power!
I will enter the interstate near my home which is divided and also with no cars in front and wheelie my 600 in second with clutch and lots of gas.
However after riding this light bike on long high speed trips I would like alittle more weight, with some wind protection and while Im at it, ridiculous horsepower.
Im guessing my little bandit with bolt ons is 85-90 HP at 450 pounds, why not go 550 ( ZX-12R) and 175 hp?
I love the acceleration and the ability to roll on without banging down 2 gears would be nice.
As I stated my morning commute is 50 miles each way at 80 mph, being a size 56 sportcoat I catch alot of air, its tiring after 50 miles, so I feel I need a screen of some sort.
I like the CB919/900s looks, suspension looks good, ergos etc, havent gotten in the saddle so I am not sure about the power. I am in awe of the ZX-12R stories, wheelie power unlimited, but Ive never really been a Kawasaki fan. I really trust my Suzuki and Honda engines.
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Kevin, I can answer your question!!
I am about 6'1" and weigh 250lbs. , pretty wide as well.
I have a 1999 1st gen bandit 1200s that I converted to naked. I am running D&D can, holeshot midpipe, and holeshot stage 2 w/ K&N pods. I dyno about 125rwhp. And I have geared down 1 tooth on the front sprocket.
With this setup 1st gear wheelies are silly easy, 2nd are very easy roll-on, and third are roll-on hard and pull back on the bars.
The bike is so powerful, that even in 5th gear if on the gas hard and you go over a hill in the road the front end wheel launch (super scary at triple digit speeds!).
I now have 30,000 miles on my bandit, and have often wanted other bikes; but there is simply nothing out there that can give the kind of fun and excitement that this bike has. I have even ridden a friends turbo busa, and although the bike was about one step beyond insane, I still prefer my bandit.
Wheelies were just as good when the fairing was on, the only major difference is that now I can see where I am going!
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Kevin,
Any liter bike is going to feel much stronger to you.
You're going from 40ft/lbs in your Bandit to 75-80+ ft/lbs.
That translates into some serious pull.
And... wheelies. :banana:
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Take a look at this, is it me or does it seem that he can just role on wheelie when ever he likes in what ever gear. This bike is a gsxr-1000. I'm thinkin of a gsx-r600 as a next bike id like to know what they are like for role on wheelies?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7742354140852426378
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If you want to ride like that then let me take a life insurance policy out on you right now. The GSXR 600's roll on pretty good in 1st gear, 2nd gear to get em to come up you gotta be goin over 55 and they come up easier if you clutch it. The GSXR 1000 that I rode was doin roll ons at 90 if you bop the throttle just right. Clutching it up at 120 wasn't a problem. These were both 02's that I rode so it may be easier now with improvements. Check out getting a older TLR Vtwin, tons of tourqe to get you up in the air, but heavier than the GSXR. Why are you into roll on's so much and not clutching it up? If you are going to be doing wheelies you need to learn how to clutch it. If you don't want to because it would be too hard on the clutch then you don't need to be doin any wheelies to begin with because EVENTUALLY if you ride dumb all the time your bike will have a close encounter with the pavement.
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tanner isnt quite getting it. I can clutch wheelie just about any bike ever made over 500cc or 80cc in the dirt.
I am not looking at "street/ track bikes" like a gsxr or zx-10 because I want a slightly longer wheelbase and some leg room for my 100 mile a day commute.
I want roll on power because I want roll on power, just a guy who likes power ( Ive got powerful guns, cars (vettee) truck (hemi modified) and body ( 6,1 250, bench 425 plus at 43 yrs old).
I think the ZX-12R is the one, I started looking seriously and it figures all the bikes that Ive been seeing are gone. Id like a B series bone stock and super low miles (6k or less). It will take alittle time but Ill find one.
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yeh i spent an afternoon the other day practising clutch ups in 2nd gear on my B6, lol i still cant do it (wahh), managed to get my wheel up a few inches before it came back down. Should I practise in 1st gear instead, would it be any easier?
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wheelies fine in 1st with clutch, I dont really even pull, wheelies in second with a good push/pull/cluth pop.
You should be doing better in 2nd? Its a 600 so dont spare the throttle!
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what about b4's then? Just curious, i might try it one day but i'm not sure if i ever have the gal for it. I'm very happy taking curves the fast way, but doing wheelies (both power and clutch) and keeping them is something that still mystifies me
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ha yeh maybe i was just being too shy with the throttle but i was getting a bit of a clunk after a while of doing it that worried me a little, checked my chain afterwards and phuck me had it stretched. I've got 3 of the ghost rider videos it amazes me how easy he makes it look.
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what about b4's then? Just curious, i might try it one day but i'm not sure if i ever have the gal for it. I'm very happy taking curves the fast way, but doing wheelies (both power and clutch) and keeping them is something that still mystifies me
The complete idiots guide to motorcycles supposedly says that the B4 is one of the best handling bikes ever made. I say keep it on the ground and let it do what it loves, rather than beating the ratshit out of it. However, that said:
(http://www.bikesalesonthenet.co.uk/guides/used/images/bandit402.jpg)
http://www.ukbike.com/reviews/bikes/gsf400.html
I'd say it can be done.
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The complete idiots guide to motorcycles supposedly says that the B4 is one of the best handling bikes ever made. I say keep it on the ground and let it do what it loves, rather than beating the ratshit out of it.
hear hear!! :lol:
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I think thats right, take care of them.
I pulled the front wheel a couple times to see what kind of power I had when I got the bike at 3,000 miles.
This also allows me to know how hard the motor hits when I crack the throttle open hard in a corner, now I know, now I dont try to wheelie anymore.
I think we should ride them hard but like the factory intended.
Wheelies and burnouts cost money and extreme wear on the bike. I watch riders around Atlanta wheelie and stoppie all day every weekend, if they've got the money, let them wreck them, but not me. (watch what you buy in the local trader)
I also dont bury my $9000 atv over the seat in water and mud either for the same reason, it costs too much. I dont burn the wheels off my 94 corevette convertible, those tires are $260 each, or my hemi pickup with $150 tires each.
But I do WANT the power to pull the front end on my bike when and if I ever want to!
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Just be careful with all that power, I took some soil samples for the EPA last night while doing a wheelie. It snapped up a bit quicker than I expected, the next thing I knew I was sliding sideways with both wheels locked up. Then I slid into my chainlink fence on my front lawn and knocked down 2 steel fenceposts. :duh: Luckily I didn't get hurt, and did only minor damage to my beloved B12.
So guys, be WHEELIE careful!! :beers:
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Just be careful with all that power, I took some soil samples for the EPA last night while doing a wheelie. It snapped up a bit quicker than I expected, the next thing I knew I was sliding sideways with both wheels locked up. Then I slid into my chainlink fence on my front lawn and knocked down 2 steel fenceposts. :duh: Luckily I didn't get hurt, and did only minor damage to my beloved B12.
So guys, be WHEELIE careful!! :beers:
You only took out 2 fenceposts? :shock:
The B12 is usually good for 4 minimum. :wink:
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The B12 is usually good for 4 minimum. Wink
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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I have to say, I think its a crime (metaphorically) to thrash a beautiful machine unnecessarily. So many people claim to love motorcycles, and to love riding them and then they go out an trash the things. Then years later, when they've matured, they lament the fact that they don't see any more of Suziwakondamaha gcyksbzxr's on the road and what a great bike it was and why can't you find them anymore? cause they, and others like them trashed them years ago... :duh:
Take care of that baby. Ride her hard, ride her fast, but treat her well. Keep her lubed and happy and she'll treat you well and become a great friend for years to come. sorta like women, I guess :grin: (/me ducks)
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The Bandit 1200 has good hp (101 hp stock) and lots of torque ( 70 ft lbs for wheelies). It is a comfortable motorcycle with good ergonomics. As far as fairing, you can get aftermarket fairing from www.whaccessories.com ( Wildhair Accessories).
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
Also the B12 is affordable for a liter size plus bike. :motorsmile:
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The B12 is usually good for 4 minimum.
Yer killin me DA.
This whole thing reminds me, someone on this board said something about the throttle response of a 600 abndit...He really should try a 1200!! :banana:
Andrewsw, seriously dude...It's just a motorcycle. Made to be ridden and enjoyed. If you choose to baby your bike, go for it. I'm gonna keep ridin it like I stole it. I've got 21000 miles on my bandit, and this is the first time I've ever dropped it. I really do love my Bandit, no other bike gives the versatility of a Bandit, I've ridden it fast like a sportbike, I'v taken long trips with my wife on the back (500 mile days), and it looks cool cruisin through town(especially on the back tire with the saddlebags on!)
:motorsmile: :motorsmile: :motorsmile: :motorsmile: :motorsmile:
I need an emoticon of a bike going up and over backwards!
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It's just a motorcycle.
Don't get me wrong. I totally agree that its just a motorcycle. I'm saying that if you are lucky enough to have a rare, coveted, unique or otherwise special bike, pulling wheelies on it is not a great idea. I ride my bike hard, harder all the time. I redline her routinely. I pile on the brakes when its appropriate. But if I wanted to work on wheelies, stoppies, burn-outs and other fun things, I'd get a hold of a throw-away bike to destroy. I've seen guys pulling wheelies and thrashing the frame through hard landings on all sorts of hard-to-find, only-a-few-left bikes which I consider a tragic waste of good engineering, history, nostalgia, whatever. I agree that a bike should be ridden, I just think some thought is appropriate when doing things outside the normal operating mode of the vehicle.
I'm also turning into an opinionated old-fart. meh. so it goes. :wink:
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I get what you're saying andrew, that's why I don't ride wheelies on my '73 Z1. I probably should stick to wheelieing my dirt bike, but the bandit just does 'em so well!! :banana: :banana:
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Someone posted about Bandits snapping in half because of, I'm assuming, wheelie abuse. Altho it's hard for me to picture a frame breaking from this unless there is welding defects, I may deferr to the more cautious side and keep my wheelies to a minimum.
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I'm glad I didn't do THIS:
http://break.com/index/really_bad_motorcycle_wheelie.html
This link was posted in the squidly news section
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What an a** hole only wearing jeans :duh:
If you wanna learn to wheelie goto a wheelie school ,you get proper tuition and you ride there bikes so if you drop it no big deal.
I have done 2 wheelie schools and can now with confidence wheelie my B12s still yet to change gear but can lift it up and keep it there.
Half the battle is confidence.
Now its hard NOT to wheelie when i'm stuck at the lights :motorsmile:
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I learned younger when I had a YZ250, that bike was a wheelie machine . A mx bike with close gear ratios and a hell off a 2 stroke powerband, it was really fun but I did flip it several times in the dirt. I could ride that bike from 2nd-4th on one wheel, the B12 I've managed a couple 1st-2nd in the air changes, but it was so unpredictable it scared me so I stuck with the 1st gear power wheelies. I almost flipped it one time shifting into second, stabbed the back brake when second was sending me over backwards and smacked my nads on the tank and face/helmet on the bars. That was the last time I tried a shift in mid air on the ol' B12..
:duh:
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HAHA :grin: oh yes i can relate to the old meat and 2 veg slapping on the tank.
I have tried to shift gear but i either dont shut off power enough to clutchless change or have hit neutral, im that addicted im going back to the school to learn to change gear i'd rather trash there gearbox than mine trying it :lol: