Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: mademiriam on August 10, 2009, 06:17:39 PM
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Ever since my trackschool this year all I've been able to think about is racing. I never thought it would financially come together enough for me but it's looking like it just might. As I write this I'm looking at the 'racebike' jar we've started which is slowly filling up.
Since locally all fields other than the Amateur 600 are very skinny I'm thinking of doing that. Never mind that I haven't ridden a modern supersport bike at anywhere near it's limit...EVER. I figure if I can drop my laptimes down to where the back of the field is I'll race otherwise I'll just do trackdays to get better.
So far I've only had the EX500 on the track on which I've managed to make improvements every time out. I still have a long way to go but it's encouraging to get faster.
So while looking out for a possible track worthy candidate for next year I'm not considering a 03 R6 has all the usual done to it, and is in great shape without a whole lot of use. Any opinions on this era of R6?
Any general thoughts or considerations?
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I don't have any first-hand racing experience but from the track day folks I've talked to and followed on other boards, the modern 600 amateur class is considered the "meatgrinder" class. Lots and lots of competition and a lot of guys (and girls) who think they're the next Rossi. I'm not sure what you're options are up there but when I had the F3, I wished I had the time and the cash to give whichever veteran class it fit a go. It was apparently a lot more sane and good natured - still very competitive but with folks who were still interested in getting back to work on Monday instead of impressing the nonexistent Repsol rep in the stands. Does that make sense?
On the bike, I don't know about that particular vintage but my good friend tracked an 05 R6 and absolutely loved it. Any of the somewhat modern supersports in good shape with the appropriate mods are good bikes. Its more rider than anything else.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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>>Never mind that I haven't ridden a modern supersport bike at anywhere near it's limit...EVER.<<
If it's within your budget, you might want to check out Kieth Code's course. I was gong to take one myself before winding up unemployed. :sad: It's around $2000 US.
http://www.superbikeschool.com/
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I know the 600 class is known as a meatgrinder. I would have to say that locally while it's full I don't think it's quite as crazy, most of the guys I've talked to always talk about making it to work Monday morning. The sad truth is that while they HAVE a SV650 class here there are 0 bikes in it. Sportsman 1 (which is 91 and earlier) sometimes only fields 4-5 bikes which is the amateur and pro field combined. Sportsman 2 (99 and earlier) not enough bikes to run their own race. I'd like to be part of an actual 'grid' so to speak. I COULD still race the old EX500... some new tires and the correct sprocket would help a lot. Depending on who shows for the sportsman 1 race I'd already have a shot at not being last without those changes. But I don't really care about not being last. I've noticed that on the track I improve much more if I'm within sight of other riders. And for me lets face it I'm not looking to impress that factory rep and get a factory ride. I just want to improve my riding, drop my times and have some fun in the process.
And man do I WISH we had something like Keith Codes school! Even though that is my entire bike budget! :banghead: I know in time I'll figure out the newer bikes, its just that I come from a biking history of gs400, gpz550, bandit 1200 which while new requires a totally different style than a supersport oriented machine. I've ridden new bikes but they've never been mine so it's always with an extra bit of caution. If I can touch a knee on the ex, it should be a relief to know I don't have to climb as far off a newer bike!
Glad to hear the 05 R6 worked out well for him, the 03 is almost identical. Guess I'll just have to see and figure out if it will work out.
I'll be sure to keep you posted on my track antics. For those of you who have not tried it, let me say again, you should! It's just an amazing amount of fun.
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They have a SV650 class with NO ONE? I assume if you entered in that, they'd put you out with a few of the other small classes, like the Sportsman 1 & 2. You'd still get some experience dicing it up with others, so you're not by yourself, but you're not out there with a large mass of ridiers like the current 600 class.
And if no one's in the SV class, you'd always get to come home with a trophy! :trustme: :winner: <-- Always wanted an excuse to use that 'con... :bandit:
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hee hee ya good trophy! Well I don't think the sportsman 1 guys would be too keen on having an SV in their class. But maybe. And when I say the am 600 field is full I mean liked 15 riders, not full full, but just an actual grid.
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The fast riders in the 600 class FLY. I would have to agree with the SV650. You can find one race ready for a desent price. A 1st Generation for under 3K a little more for the 2nd generation. Lots of parts avalibe too. A more broad band of rider experience,can ride in the lt class along with a couple other classes. Cheap to keep in tires compaired to the 600s. And a good rider can put out some FAST lapXs.
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I'll throw my .02$ in since I usually get thrown into the "somewhat fast" group on a trackday with the 400.
I'd concentrate more on lines, braking and cornerspeed than I would anything else. For that, your EX is perfect because it's all about momentum. Same goes for the SV. I'd spend money on good tires, suspension work and brakes and shame people on the "lesser" bike.
Everything on a 600 supersport be it R6, GSXR, CBR is more. More brakes, more engine, more capable chassis. Until your instructors can tell you you're outriding your bike, I wouldn't worry about it. Track time is key and owning a bike where parts are prolific also helps (SV and EX included).
Other thing you'll find is that racing is expensive. Factor in consumables like tires, fluids even gas/lodging/transport to get to the track and it gets pricey fast. I know my buddies who have race numbered SV1ks have at least 3k into their suspension not to mention hundreds in tires (with wets always mounted and ready to go). They've got a near full-shop in their trailers and gennies for tire warmers. Its impressive and they still have to think about going to work on Monday.
I'd also second attending a more race-oriented track school using their bikes like CSS and see if it's for you. There you'll get first hand instruction and a well maintained bike and you can make the decision from there. It may blow your budget but I think if the thought is in your head, you'd be doing yourself a favor in taking the class.
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That was a very good 2 cents. :thumb:
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thanks for the the opinions guys I do find it super helpful.
I'm afraid it's hard for me to explain just how limited local racing is. SV650 like I said has NOONE save for the one day a year that the Canadian series visits. So an SV650 is out. The next roadracing track is several hours drive away, the next bigger track (big enough to make it on the parts canada series) is 13 hours drive or so. For trackdays only I would probably keep the EX or just get a SV. For racing however I truly don't think its realistic. The great thing about living in the middle of nowhere is that racing is cheap, not much more than trackdays. When we have a trackday it's also not just a trackday, it's the test and tune leading in to the weekend. Which means that the fast group it generally the pro superbike, 600 etc. and a few of the fast amateurs. The middle group covers the rest of the amateurs (superbike, 600, thunder, vintage, sportsman etc.) and trackday riders like me. Its not your usual trackday, I get the smell of racefuel and a good peek at some amateur 600 numbers every trackday. Other than superbike and 600 none of the fields are split amateur and pro rather it's all run as one race.
If I wanted to attend a 'more race oriented school' which truly isn't fair to the guys here because they put on a great school which is in all but the beginner group a race oriented affair. However IF I wanted to go I would be flying somewhere to attend one. As much as I'd like to I don't think this is happening. It just isn't.
As for outriding the bike, I have heard comments like that. I need better tires on the EX at the very least, and an upgraded suspension (or MORE upgraded suspension it's nowhere near stock now).
So for the time being crazy or not. I'll give the 600 a swing. I'll try it the next and last trackday in september, see how it feels and how the chips fall in to place. Hopefully it will be a nice consistent drop in times while always keeping it rubber side down.
Lots of the local guys are supportive, and a few of us who plan to start AM600 next year are thinking we will have someone to ride with. Ironically the exact same people I ride with on the EX right now.
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The end of the season will be coming quicker than we like,(much too quick for me anyway) And you might find a good deal on a bike race ready. There have been a couple in my area already on the Fasttrax site. ( a gs 500 that does well in the lt wt., and a f4 600 honda that needs work) I know thats too far out of your way, but keep your eyes open and ask around at the org. that you ride with.
Either that, or a bike thats been damaged on the road that you can make one out of. But I think it may be cheaper to find one already done up.
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well am the owner of a 03 R6 now, here it goes. I'm super excited for the next (and last of the year) trackday. The R6 is a whole new world! A final decision to race will probably be made next spring. For the time being I'm hoping to keep it rubber side down at the last trackday. And then wait agonizingly for spring to come.
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:congrats: How about some pics?
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^^ second that!
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:congrats: How about some pics?
+3 :beers:
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:grin: oh wouldn't I love to share them... can't right now bike is in the living room :roll: due to hurricane warning last weekend, Bill turned out to be not much of a storm once it hit here but we were concerned to have our bikes tipped over like dominoes so ended up taking them in...
home again now so I'll see if I can get some pics once it's moved out again.
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We're still waiting... :stickpoke:
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sorry been waiting for pics from trackday to pop up. My other half was too sick to lift a camera. Here's my report for the day sorry for the rambling-
The first trackday with the R6 went well. My first goal for the day was to keep it rubber side down, which I'm lucky to report I did manage and the bike looked the same coming home as it did leaving.
I was feeling rather under the weather starting on Wednesday and didn't feel any better when Friday trackday rolled around. Not only I but the whole household was sick. This wasn't enough to have us miss the last trackday of the year however.
My times didn't drop as low as I would have wanted, which bothered me a bit during the trackday as it just seemed I couldn't get the energy to press on anymore. In retrospect though I'm quite pleased with my first day on a bike of the R6 caliber which I've never ridden before in my life and the ability to at least keep it all together with the bit of energy that I did have.
First lap of the first session the rear tire broke loose just enough to say the tire was still cold and I was dealing with more than 50hp now. What a joy the R6 is to ride! Dragging knees feels almost effortless. While it doesn't have a slipper clutch the transmission is honestly the smoothest shifting bike I have ever ridden.
Halfway through the morning I had a 'incident' witnessed conveniently by the bikes former owner and another rider which happened to be right behind me. As I was accelerating through the last bit of the back straight I experienced a sudden and very violent tank slapper movement. It lifted me momentarily out of my seat and left me thinking there was something wrong with the bike. The guys behind me luckily had their heads up and I managed not to go flying off the bike at 180kmh. After this my 'crew chief' tightened my damper more. Not having been used to ridding with one I had only had it set loosely. Still the actual cause is unknown, nobody saw anything that should have caused it, possibly I had managed to hit something on the track while the front wheel was light from acceleration. I honestly don't know.
One of the session i cut short and lost a few laps because I felt too lightheaded to continue. All in all though I think this was the best trackday yet, with the least amount of accidents and the most amount of tracktime. Biggest incident of the day was our friend from trackschool Rick wrecking it big time in turn 7, poor guy's had two crashes this year. Time to get a racebike for him too I think. Or rather turn that nearly brand new 08 GSXR 750 in to one its totally wrecked anyway... I came around a turn to see him standing in a field of little plastic pieces.
Looking forward to some more riding once the bike is street legal.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2447/3912974929_0a1efe5357.jpg)
yes thats our living room
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Love the new living room furniture... how comfortable is it to sit on and watch tv? Probably great to watch the races on, eh? :bandit:
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Love the new living room furniture... how comfortable is it to sit on and watch tv? Probably great to watch the races on, eh? :bandit:
ya sometimes as night we sneek down in our pajamas and make engine noises while 'riding it' ok not really. As furniture it's a lot sexier than the pink floral couch set the mother outlaw told me I had to accept. :grin:
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Man you picked a class I hate to ride in. I started in that class. It sucks when you are new to road racing. I race light weight twin on my Hawk 650, heavy weight twin on my Duacti 996, endurance on a F3 Honda and Formula 450 on a CR450. You might wanna give endurance racing a try. Your r6 would be good for that class. I run in it with an old F3 and it's a lot of fun and another class you can get serious track time in. If you can get into a school before next season look at the Star school, Kevin Schwantz's or Freddie Spencers schools to tune your riding. Also most of the schools have a guy who will set up your bike for you so you can get reasonably close to correct suspension set up, etc. We ran an R6 for a bit. I think I have notes if you'd like some set up ideas. Keep it rubber side down.
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I know what you mean the endurance race looks like a lot of fun...thats right we have one of them a year. I think in any other part of the world I'd never race 600
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:clap: You'll get your lapX down with seat time,first time out on the bike and under the weather as well, must have just felt good getting to learn the bike.
I have my last track day of the year coming up too. Oct 3rd @ Beaver Run,will be running in the advanced class with the racers practicing for Sundays races.
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Ooh, Dan! It's looking like I'll be visiting my fam out in Western PA that weekend. Wonder if I can talk the wife into riding out to the track for a little while...
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Rob, that would be awsome if you can make it! We've should have met by now. I still have a extra bike don't forget. My cell # is 814) 392-7860. Not sure if my wife is going or my pal that owns the bike shopp "Killer" or if I'm going it alone. No matter, I know I'll be there. I'd really like to watch races on Sun. too, but not sure if it will happen. My wife was totally boered last time, read a book and didn't want to watch me in the rain.(Anxitety)
I'd really like to be part of the races, but do to no hospitaliation and respecting my wife's wishes not to race. I'll be satisfied with riding in the addvanced group. Dan
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oh man hope you guys have a blast at beaver run, just checked that track out online and hot @^%#( no gravel anywhere!!! and I didn't see any patches in the asphalt! Oh and the straights are actually straight :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: it's like heaven!
Hope you guys have a great day and bring back some pics for the rest of us. :motorsmile:
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Its a fun track,some tight turns but they flow nicely together. Elevation changes,with a couple blind corners and a one being off cantered going into the back straight.Has good grip and seems to rain alot there. :grin:
I hope the weather is better than it is now. Cold blowing and wet!
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It's way fun. There are some scary bumps if you get too wide on that off camber, downhill right-hander. The first kink on the back straight takes some confidence to take WFO - but that's where you can make up the most time for an intermediate rider. The braking area for the carousel is a little beat up, too. But like Dan says, it just flows so nice. Turns 2-5 just rock. Unfortunately, I think it rained my last 5 days there... :rant2:
Unfortunately Dan, my P'burgh trip got pushed back to the 10th...
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Well maybe we can make it next year then Rob. Fasttrax will be running @ Beaver Run more often next year and they come up with some good deals sometimes.(ridefasttrax.com) They put in 1 more event @ Nelson Ledges Oct 10 & 11 for only $80. But I don't think I will be able to spend again with work slowing down.
Sorry if I highjacked the thread, too bad we're so far away,too far to try each others tracks.Good luck with next years racing.
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No worries about the thread, I love hearing about other peoples track experiences and tracks... the tracks make me jealous. The other half ie. the 'pit crew' has decided they would like a road trip to some other tracks... :motorsmile: sounds good to me. I'll give it a few years though, just found out the young guy needs braces... $6k :yikes:
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If you can get into a school before next season look at the Star school, Kevin Schwantz's or Freddie Spencers schools to tune your riding.
Sadly, you can't do a Fast Freddie school anymore. His school was forced to close last year, rumor has it because of a nasty divorce. Several of his instructors are now in the employ of the new Skip Barber motorcycle courses though.