Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: Sven on January 27, 2006, 10:59:47 PM
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The new issue of ROADBIKE (FEB/MAR '06) starts a new project bike, a red 01B12. THe first article focuses on improving the bike's sound and performance; next issue will focus on comfort.
Apparently Bandits have a "dangerous front-end wobble at certain RPM" and the Bandit's carbs are notoriously difficult to tune.
I have the B12 review they ran back in May '03...they weren't unkind, so I'll let these little comments go. Besides, the article is written by a chick! :stickpoke:
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Apparently Bandits have a "dangerous front-end wobble at certain RPM" and the Bandit's card are notoriously difficult to tune.
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in all the Bandit lists & boards since 1998, I can't recall a single post or comment about a wobble.
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There is a front end wobble, but it's usually caused by crap Macadams, not the bike itself and it's hardly dangerous (unless you're in the habit of riding with no hands around corners). Besides I thought the Macadam 100 sorted that......
......maybe one of you US blokes should right in to the mag and let them know that they are talking out their rear ends.
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Apparently Bandits have a "dangerous front-end wobble at certain RPM" and the Bandit's carbs are notoriously difficult to tune.
The 2nd-gen B12 did have a wobble, the only way to detect it was to take your hands off the bars and let the bike decelerate. As mentioned, the 90X Macadams were often blamed. The simple solution was to not go around riding with no hands. :lol:
I have Pilot Roads on my '01 B12, there is zero wobble with hands removed.
The 1st-gen B12 carbs were a bit finicky, but the 2nd-gen B12 carbs are plug and play IMHO. Easier to tune and they give better fuel economy too.
Thanks for the tip on the project bike article, I'll have to check that out. Hopefully they will have a nice suspension upgrade planned too.
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I have had Macadam's, Avon's & Metzlers on mine which all produced a front end wobble. Rule out tires. This is not a serious head shake, and mostly noticable when letting off the throttle. This will go away, with a new front tire, but comes back after 5000 km. It does not occur with a passenger on the back, which really makes me suspect steering Geometry. (Oh and don't even suggest wheel balancing here as I had 3 dealers re-balance the same wheel)
The best & most believeable theory is that on early SK-2 bikes, suzuki switched from tapered bearings to ball bearings in the stearing head. Misteriously, several people took their bikes to the dealer because of head shalke, and for some reason had SK-1 tapered bearings installed. A few have stated that Suzuki discontinued the ball bearings on their parts list, and now sell tapered bearings as replacements. Suzuki also went to a smaller diameter tire on the 2006 bandit 1200's. I wonder why? It is known that tapered bearings have more resistance. Sort of a built in steering damper if you will.
I plan on changing my bearings out in the next few months.
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Apparently Bandits have a "dangerous front-end wobble at certain RPM" and the Bandit's carbs are notoriously difficult to tune.
At a certain RPM? Hmmm... never thought to tie wobbly front ends to engine speed before. When my bike did it, it was always noticeable at certain road speed.
have had Macadam's, Avon's & Metzlers on mine which all produced a front end wobble. Rule out tires. This is not a serious head shake, and mostly noticable when letting off the throttle. This will go away, with a new front tire, but comes back after 5000 km.
My bike has never had the wobbles with Pilot Roads and when I had a Bridgestone 010 up front, it didn't appear until the tire was about worn out anyway (9000 miles). So I'm leaning more towards saying it IS the tires. Geometry, weight distribution, steering head bearing design may have an impact, but if new tires make it go away and it doesn't come back until the tires reach a certain wear point, then that seems to me to be more of a tire issue.
Yes, the Mac 100X was supposed to cure the ails of the 90X, but it wasn't very successful. (It did push the cupping to a higher distance instead of the almost immediate nature of the 90X.) The Pilot Road replaced the 100X and seems to have done the trick.
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On mine, it does appear that the age of the tire has more effect than the tire itself. If that makes sense? Also should point out that none were better or worse.The Macadam, the Metzler & the Avon's all did it at some point in their lives. All have a vastly different tread design.
To say that it is only tires, would suggest that everyone who has a stock suspension B-12 & has mounted a Macadam, Avon or Metzler tire on the front of a B-12 should get head shake. Correct? I do not think that is the case.
If one checks the archieves on Max Suki regarding head shake, you will see that the problem is larger than we all think.
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Perhaps.
I admit, I don't spend much time at M-S anymore, so maybe there's more recent info over there, but from what I have read and talked to other Banditos, the typical Bandit shake comes from tire cupping. Tire cupping can be caused from a number of things, as has already been mentioned, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a Mac90 never cupped on them - and I darn sure don't know of any Bandit owners that have said that. The vast majority of 90's cupped very early - on B12's at like 500-1500 miles. For a sport-touring tire to cup that early - and only with that tire - sure makes me think it's the tire. Plenty of people have put a lot of miles on a lot of other kinds of tires with little or no cupping. Like I said, my 010 didn't cup until it had 9000 miles on it and it was within 500 miles of being worn out by then anyway, so I wouldn't hold that against Bridgestone. I wore out a Pilot Road with no cupping after 10,000 miles and I'm about halfway thru my second PR and it's doing as good as the first. If it was a bike problem, wouldn't it only get worse as the bike got older? Funny how my bike cupped tires at 500 miles, but doesn't cup them anymore with 40,000 - and I've never even pulled the head apart to apply fresh grease.
The 2G B12 does have more aggressive geometry than the 1G, so it has a greater potential for headshake. Usually, this doesn't come into play unless the geometry gets altered even more (Busa shock, raised forks, 60 series front tire), the rider rides at the edge of the envelope a lot, or maintenance is ignored. It's certainly not an issue people come in here and complain about all the time.
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Apparently Bandits have a "dangerous front-end wobble at certain RPM" and the Bandit's carbs are notoriously difficult to tune.
What's wobble got to do with RPM? The writer obviously has no clue which renders the rest of the article useless IMHO.
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I've got to agree with you Red, I believe it is the TYRE.
Since getting rid of the Crapadam at 9000km and putting on a Metzler M1, I'm on to the second M1 since then (now 26,000km), and I've not felt the slightest unwarranted wobble from the front. The front is solid, predicatable and provides good feed back.
The local bike shops (all four of them) said the same thing "Some bikes don't like that style of tread" One said he'd seen the problem on an ST1100 running that same tread pattern - changed tyre/tread pattern and no more problem.
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I read it at Barens Noble yesterday. They installed a fork brace & sterring dampner from Dale. Some new fork srpings (but no gold valves). And a Muzzy slip on and mid pipe kit. I dont have a mid pipe, that might be cool.
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I dunno for sure if it's the tires or bearings, but I do know I bought an '01 B12S brand new in '01, it would wag the bars under deceleration if I let go of the grips. My current '01 B12S has 25k on it and does not wag the bars at all, with Pilot Road tires. I'm not the original owner so I dunno if it has the original head bearings.
I wouldn't say the 2nd-gen B12 "requires" a steering damper, but I put one on my first '01 B12 and really liked the "controlled" feeling it gives the machine. The bike has so much torque that it's quite easy to loft the front tire under acceleration. If the tire is just barely off the ground and touches down a little off kilter it can startle you. A steering damper controls that nicely.
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I have a regulard bikini faired 98 Bandit 1200 with a Bridgestone Battlax on the front, (& back).
The first one cupped and I replaced it early. The second one died for diffo reasons. The third one has also cupped and the **low speed** head shake rapidly going to tank slapper, is automatic if you lean back during deceleration. No, I didn't run it soft.
The cycle shop(s) has different ways to blame the rider -such as:
-you ran it soft
-you brake too hard... do stoppies
-you mismatched the tires
-you added hard bags, (did it before I added)
Now I hear the 2000 series 1200s are ill!
Maybe it is systemic on this model. :duh:
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Here are the four pages of the 1st article in the series:
1: http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/l/elbandido/images/Roadbike_200602_1.JPG
2: http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/l/elbandido/images/Roadbike_200602_2.JPG
3: http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/l/elbandido/images/Roadbike_200602_3.JPG
4: http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/l/elbandido/images/Roadbike_200602_4.JPG
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I bought the magazine yesterday and read the article. Seems the mods are nothing radical just stuff most people here have done. By the way, what does a fork brace do? Will it help with braking stability? I hate that wobley feeling when I'm hard on the brakes. If a fork brace doesn't help with that...what does?
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and it's hardly dangerous (unless you're in the habit of riding with no hands around corners).
God that was funny tp me for some reason! I'm still laughing!!!
:toofunny:
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Actually my 02' has that too. I think it might be the front tire. It's the original front and will be changed this spring. Probably with a Continental Road Attack.
Apparently Bandits have a "dangerous front-end wobble at certain RPM" and the Bandit's carbs are notoriously difficult to tune.
The 2nd-gen B12 did have a wobble, the only way to detect it was to take your hands off the bars and let the bike decelerate. As mentioned, the 90X Macadams were often blamed. The simple solution was to not go around riding with no hands. :lol:
I have Pilot Roads on my '01 B12, there is zero wobble with hands removed.
The 1st-gen B12 carbs were a bit finicky, but the 2nd-gen B12 carbs are plug and play IMHO. Easier to tune and they give better fuel economy too.
Thanks for the tip on the project bike article, I'll have to check that out. Hopefully they will have a nice suspension upgrade planned too.
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I just bought the same exhaust and mid pipe(mine's aluminum) but mine has an integrated can mount not that ugly band going around the can. I'm glad it was so simple, but no shims or jetting? Did they ride the bike after installing the pipe? Hmmm..... I plan to shim my needles 1mm(.040) and turn out my mixture screws and maybe remove the snorkle.. Geez these guys didn't even turn out the mixture screws!
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There is a front end wobble, but it's usually caused by crap Macadams, not the bike itself and it's hardly dangerous (unless you're in the habit of riding with no hands around corners). Besides I thought the Macadam 100 sorted that......
......maybe one of you US blokes should right in to the mag and let them know that they are talking out their rear ends.
Funny that one, :roll:
Crap tyres and associated with rpm, bloody good motorcycle jorno's you guys have over there in the good old US of A. :stickpoke:
Man just maybe I should get my greencard and come over there, and become a jorno, and write in a mag that is read by your brain surgeons.
Sorry I see it's already been done :stickpoke: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry guys the beams are getting to me :grin: