Author Topic: Valve Tap (Read 6762 times)

ZenMan · « **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2007, 11:04:47 AM »

You're welcome!

If anything, all this feedback proves it wasn't a dumb question after all, aye?

I think this was the best direct answer to your question:

Quote from: "pmackie"

1. If you have a loud "TACK", sounding like a single tappet, then you should get it checked. You may have an adjuster that came loose. Unlikely, but not impossible.
2. If you are hearing a VERY mild "ticking" or "clatter" sounding like a number of tappets, that is louder when it is cold, and gets quieter (but does not disappear) when warm, then yes, that is normal.

Sums it up pretty good, I think.

H2RICK · « **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2007, 01:49:05 PM »

Yep, Zenman, pmackie pretty much nailed it.
Another caution though:
YOUR OIL LEVEL SHOULD NEVER BE LOWER THAN 1/3 THE WAY DOWN THE WINDOW WHEN CHECKING IT COLD !!!
.....ESPECIALLY DURING BREAKIN !!!
....BUT EVEN ANY TIME AFTER BREAKIN, AS WELL !!!
This may seem like simple stuff to you pros.....but a lot of newbies (to bikes in general) think they can run a bike like a car i.e. near/at the add mark. REALLY BAD IDEA !!!!
I won't go into the long boring reasons why you need to do this (which you pros already know) but for the newbies......
KEEP THE OIL AT OR VERY NEAR THE FULL MARK......
and, yes, that means carrying a bottle of your favourite lube with you any time you're going to be away from home for at least one night.
As my dear old dad (a journeyman mechanic for over 40 years) used to say: YOUR time and oil are cheaper than SHOP time and parts.

Daytona · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2007, 09:36:26 PM »

Bucket shims are better! Good to see the site back up!

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2007, 09:48:22 PM »

Iv never looked forward to removing the cam to get under the bucket to mic and replace those darn small shims. Although I will admit the time between having to make an adjustment is longer. On my DRZ400 its 15000 miles. Above bucket is easier requiring only a tool to remove/replace the shim.

Red01 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2007, 11:18:06 PM »

LOL - Screw & locknut was an item that swayed me to the Bandit - price didn't hurt any either.

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2007, 01:03:34 AM »

I suppose I should know this but what valve adjustment system does the Busa use?

Daytona · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2007, 01:30:38 AM »

Shims in a bucket atop of valves. Very involved deal. Most that use synthetic oil never have to have em done. The zuky schedule says not needed to 18k miles and then most aren't out of tolerance.

Bob Holland · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2007, 09:35:03 AM »

You havn't lived until you have done the valves on a ZX 12, it is almost eaiser to remove the engine than to do it in the bike.

ZenMan · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2007, 10:52:21 AM »

He he... here we have two different "valve philosophies"... interesting!

Personally, the shim & bucket design was something I loved about the old Kawi inline 4's... to me it's so much easier to just measure your clearances, calculate the difference from the old shim, then pop in the new one. They hardly ever needed changing, and you didn't have to mess with the whole locknut/adjuster deal.

Less moving parts, stronger, longer time between adjusments... another reason I like the new B1250 too.

It's all good, each to their own, right? It's always good to have different schools of thought, otherwise we couldn't have all these fun little debates!

Daytona · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2007, 11:24:58 AM »

Bandit cost to adj ZIP! Not even a cover gasket if your careful! Bucket type when they need done %$#%$%^$#%$ $175.00 kit and that is the cheap one. Most zuki shops don't have em all. The H Busa.org was going to start a bank of sorts so the little pills could be swapped for others not needed. To do an adjustment on a Bandit an afternoon, to adj a Busa! Days of planning, a weekend if your good, and most likely another week to get the parts in to complete the job. Or you could take it to the stealer which they will scratch it up, screw it up, make your bike sit for a week and then lie and say they did the job! I had a Kawi LTD 1000 that i rode for 38k miles when it started making some noise. Paid a shop to do the shims. I went to pick it up after it was done. My secrete mark on the valve cover was not moved at all! But they swore they did em and they were way out. They put STP in the oil so it sounded better until it thinned out! I went back and almost got arrested but they had another shop check em while i was there. They never touched em but the mechanic that knew his stuff said buy a Kerker 4-2-1 mag and ride it like you stole it! I did and sold it to a local @ 44k... I saw it at the local drag strip during bike week the other week end. Its turning low 10's !!!

Bob Holland · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2007, 01:38:56 PM »

I have done 2 or 3 Busas, and a whole bunch of ZX12s. I have a hundred or so of the shims, and the motorcycle shops around here have always traded me shim for shim.
The most time comsuming thing is dialing the cams back in when using adjustable cam sprockets. Of course, the rocker/screw type is eaiser. The FJ 12 and ZX 11, you could change shims without removing the cams.

ZenMan · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2007, 01:59:47 PM »

Yep, you tend to collect a good shim collection, and the shops are usually willing to trade.

The shim-on-top design is the easiest, with the special tool you could depress the bucket and slip the shim in and out in a couple seconds.

CWO4GUNNER · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:09:14 AM »

The above bucket shims on my old CSR 750 were pretty strait forward to remove with the depressor tool, mic and order from the dealer. Under bucket shims are suppose to be much safer as above bucket shims have been known to tiddlywink out of one bucket from under the cam during high RPM and land under another cam causing all sorts of funny sounds and problems followed by rapid deceleration.

DaveG · « **Reply #28 on:** March 23, 2007, 10:22:20 AM »

yep the "normal" valve adjustment on the B12 is one of the reasons i chose it.

Older hondas were great in that they had a port hole of sorts over each valve so that you did not need to remove the whole valve cover to adjust the valves.

Kawasaki ZR7S is a real pain to add shims. i dont mind adusting mine on the B12 at the beginning of each season.

gyrogearcrunch · « **Reply #29 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:04:21 PM »

Quote from: "CWO4GUNNER"

Its when the tappets are not prancing that you should worry. (Correction to my last) The valve will slowly wear its way into the engine, taking up clearance until the valve is held open and burns. This is almost always the case and the primary concern, hence no sound and the valves start to burn unable to close and you start back firing, then its too late. Being a little loose is not going to hurt but remind you that there is clearance. If you happen to install a jet kit early, that would be a good opportunity to pull the valve cover and check/adjust the tappets to the proper clearance cold and check them 3 times before buttoning up the job. Otherwise just wait for the scheduled maintenance period but don't expect the dealer to do a real check. 99% only make money when they let your bike sit for a day and call you thats its ready, so do it your self and learn something new.

Might as well ask a wise man this question: Is there a dial-gauge setup available for Bandit valve adjustment? If so, where?

Thanks, Herb