Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => GENERAL MOTORCYCLE => Topic started by: ricklee4570 on June 11, 2007, 05:27:15 AM
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I have read tons of stuff on the Bandits abiltiy to effortlessly wheelie. I went through all the archives in the magazines where they at the time declared it the "Wheelie King". In one Motorcyclist magazine test they went so far as to say that the bandit is capable of hitting a wheelie in "any gear" with just a twist of the wrist.
I have a 1997 Bandit. Stock, but in excellent condition. Great power and super fun to ride. However, it is no "Wheelie King" as they put it. If I run it up to between 4000 and 6000 rpm in first gear and then roll the throttle, yes, the front wheel comes off the ground but does not stay there after I shift to 2nd. And in no way will it wheelie in any gear like they proclaim.
Of course if I sit back, in an upright position, butt way back in the seat, and use the clutch in a very judicious manner, 1st and 2nd gear wheelies are possible. Just not like all the stories I read.
My question is this, is my bike a rare underpowered, under torqued model, or are the magazine writers really good at exageration?
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Maybe yopu have a 6 and they are talking about the 12?
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Mine B12 is a 98,full HS exhaust,cams,advancer and stage II jetting. No cluch needed,and I could sit on the tank if I wanted to. Just get in the power range and a smooth but quick twist, and high ho and away.I'll hit 2nd and let 'er power down rather than go for a long one wheel ride. I try to resist the temptation most of the time,you get a little wheel spin wich shortens tire life. And don't want to bring 'er down hard,not good for fork seals. But sometimes,out of nowhere,I just can't resist. Dan
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I know where you're coming from, Rick. I did some research before buying my B12 and saw all the same articles about the torque they have and the ease of pulling wheelies. I try not to be too squidly so I never attempt it with traffic around. I admit I've done some playing and it feels like it wants to come up fairly easy, but for me it's only in 1st or 2nd gear. That's probably due to not getting the RPMs up high enough in 3rd+ gear.
I've had the handlebar "wobble" where you can tell it's up off the ground, but not for long. Like smooth said I don't like taking the chance of being hard on the front wheel or suspension. Don't feel like seeing an early 4th of July of fork components skyrocketing into the air because of my fat arse :lol:
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I agree that a stock 1200 in first in the proper rpm range will come up with a quick twist of the wrist. But the magazines make it seem like in any gear at any speed just go full throttle and bring her up! I cant do that with mine. I cant get mine to come up in 2nd at any rpm unless I get it up in 1st and ride it out in 2nd, but she comes down pretty quick in 2nd.
I read articles that stated that in 3rd it is easy to pop up the front end no clutch needed. Sounds like exageration to me. The way the bandit is geared if you were in the upper rpm range in 3rd, you would be going too fast in my opinion to get the front up.
Of course using the clutch is a different story. And of course there have been times where I have floated the front up when hitting a bump under full throttle.
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Could be technique related, too. I'm not a good wheelie man myself, but those who are don't have any troubles getting a B12 to wheelie anytime they want.
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Could be technique related, too. I'm not a good wheelie man myself, but those who are don't have any troubles getting a B12 to wheelie anytime they want.
I'm sure that's 99.9% of my problem. I'm always afraid I'm going to do something to burn up the clutch. I admit I want to be able to do a wheelie once just so I can say I did it. I hate squids, but the difference of course is being on an empty road as opposed to trying it in city traffic :wink:
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I am too scared to wreck a 8000 dollar bike to try to do wheelies on purpose(sp). but yeah- i have pulled the wheel in first not trying.
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I've accidentally done a serious wheelie (serious Squid moment there) about 2 miles from the guy I purchased my B12's house. I dumped it a little too much in first and was off the ground. (I've done this same trick on a 1400cc v-twin cruiser too...heh). I've had the front wheel off the ground briefly in 2nd as well when I had a chance to do an Italian tune-up in 1st gear. When I hit 2nd in the beefy part of the power range, I got a little front wheel air.
I've not TRIED to pull a wheelie. Even with LOTS of power in 1st with me leaning forward the bike stays pretty planted. I also weigh over 300 lbs so that is alot of weight for the bike to overcome to get vertical movement.
I've also not really had many opportunities to try such things in a controlled and empty environment.
Weight could be an issue...basic moral of this long post.
~Drew
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I was in traffic yesterday and needed to change lanes and had just left a red light. I went through two cars,and into second gear pretty quickly, and the after getting up a little speed went into third gear. When I did the front tire came off the ground about three or four inches...on it's own and by accident. I am thinking that if I had the talent to do a "real" wheelie, that the Bandit would probably come up in any gear, however as said ealier in here in fifth (or sixth) you would be going way too fast to want it on one wheel...Banditone1250s... :motorsmile:
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I am to old to be doing wheelies on purpose, but my 98 Bandit 1200 will come up with ease in 1st and 2nd, it will come up in 3rd if I am not carefull. It does not come up in 4th and 5th.
Last year, I rode a pass though the 1/4 were I did not get the wheel down until I got though the 1/4 mile. I let it get up to high in 2nd and was still winning the race so I just rode it out.
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I am thinking that if I had the talent to do a "real" wheelie, that the Bandit would probably come up in any gear, however as said ealier in here in fifth (or sixth) you would be going way too fast to want it on one wheel...Banditone1250s... :motorsmile:
Those video's of turbo'ed busa's doing 150mph wheelies on empty roads come to mind...
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I like hard acceleration with the front wheel about one to two inches from the ground for as long as possible.
Big wheelies are slow, can get you tickets, and can even get out of control if you aren't careful.
Long, low wheelies are faster and, in my opinion, much cooler.
My 1200 does that with the throttle in 1st and 2nd and with just a little weight transfer (up and back) in 3rd. No hard shifts or clutch abuse required.
I really love my B 12! :motorsmile:
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In one Motorcyclist magazine test they went so far as to say that the bandit is capable of hitting a wheelie in "any gear" with just a twist of the wrist.
Sounds like they were talking about a TL1000 :wink:
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Oops read this post with my wife in the room :duh: :annoy:
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I can float the front wheel pretty easily in first, but that is about it most of the time. I meant to float the front once and it kept on going. It kind of spooked me because I wasn't expecting it to do it. Weight of the rider and technique makes a difference too. Also if you ever look at a bike that is set up for wheelies, you will notice a big rear sprocket.
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Under hard acceleration in low gears I get the front up a little bit, but it's never really on purpose.....in fact on the odd occaison that I've 'pulled a wheelie' I had to go home and change my pants :duh: :duh:
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In my opinion, most wheelies are either a side-effect of hard acceleration or they are a stunt.
Different riders do them for different reasons.
If you find that you are doing them with any frequency, ask yourself why.
Depending on the answer, you might want to consider getting either a longer swingarm or a dirt bike.
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Depending on the answer, you might want to consider getting either a longer swingarm or a dirt bike.
Or a 12 o'clock bar.
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Depending on the answer, you might want to consider getting either a longer swingarm or a dirt bike.
Or a 12 o'clock bar.
Picture for the newb? what is a 12 o'clock bar?
As for the wheelie thing...I had my first real wheel of the ground moment last week. Made a right turn down to fist gear and stabbed the throttle....handlebars got REAL light- then I felt it touch back down when I was grabbing second. Thiat freaked me out a little- then I was like- "Cool! My first wheelie!"
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12:00 bar:
(http://www.powersbikeworx.com/images/front_12bar.jpg)
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That modification ranks right up there with the hydraulic suspensions that make the lowrider cars "dance".
Instead of calling it a "12 oclock bar" perhaps it should be called a "showoff prop" or maybe even "vertical training wheels".
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Oh ok- never knew what those were called.
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12:00 bar:
(http://www.powersbikeworx.com/images/front_12bar.jpg)
That can't be good for the bike to sit like that. Think about where the fluids are sitting.
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Maybe those tests you read were naked bikes like mine. I ride an 01 b12 with 15-47 gearing and mine won't stay down in first, second it will throttle wheelie, in third it will come up with a throttle "bounce" (On-off- and on hard) and we are talking the 90mph range here. I would agree with the wheelie at any time comments. If you want it to go up, change your gearing to 15-47 or 15-48 and watch first gear as it comes up very quickly.
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I'm fairly new to the Bandit but felt comfortable enough to try some wheelies on purpose. I rolled on to about 6k RPMs and then opened it up. Instant wheelie so I hit 2nd and hit a small rise, higher wheelie so I cut the throttle. The thump on the return to earth made me realize I better practice on a smaller scale untill I know I can land safely. I'm almost 40 and by no means a squid but it was fun. However, I'll slowly try increase my skills and it will probably be awhile before I get a nice one like that again.
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Just for giggles- I was rolling my new 1250 in first about 2000 rpm...let it coast- got a knee grab on the tank is gave it some throttle...instantly the front was a foot off the ground...rolled off the throttle and set it back down. Definately easy to do, and it'l get your attention! And I am a 325 lb man that was sitting forward in the seat. My g/f was in front of me with our boys- and they were all going on about how high I got it.
For me - the wheelie thing is just a myth.
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On my riding course last weekend one of the drills was to get comfortable with hard acceleration...I whacked the B12 WFO at about 3Krpm and the nose she did rise...that was a closed course controlled situation, not something I'd do on the street :lol: ...it was also fun testing the holding power of the front brake from a standstill with the resultant rear tire squeal and smoke :bandit:
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The best wheelie I ever did on the B12S was the first day I drove it home... and was too stupid to realize what good throttle/clutch action could do on this bike.
Now I have a new full Muzzy exhaust and Ivan jet kit... I don't even try.
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Now that I've gotten comfortable with the bike's handling I've been a bit more aggressive and have to say the front end does want to come up easily on hard acceleration. I decided not to even bother with doing intentional wheelies. Not worth doing damages to the fork seals or anything else on the bike. Few times it's come up and inch or so, if that. Enough to give the flutter in the handle bars for a second and then it's back on the ground.
Oddly enough, now that I realize how easy you can get the front to come up off the ground has killed any desire to try and wheelie anymore.
Besides, started to feel like I was a :squid: in training :lol:
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After you've passed the age of 50 or so, the length of time it takes to heal, along with the greater pain factor, makes most people think twice about doing things like that.
When I was younger a bunch of us had old beater motocross bikes (RM's, KX's, YZ's and the like) which we used to blast WFO around the strip mines and any other "insane terrain" we could find. The only time the front wheel on my old RM465 ever touched the ground was when it was sitting still. :bandit:
Going through my Kawi 2-stroke triple phase resulted in a lot of broken frames and blown forks. :roll:
These days the only wheelies I do are the occasional power-lifts, and I make sure they don't get more than a few inches of air. :bandit:
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okay so i have a 99 600s with a holeshot stage 1 jet kit and yoshimura exhaust.. and i've been trying to wheelie for a while, I have got the front wheel off the ground several times, sometime high and sometimes only a few inches off the ground. i don't use the clutch don't want to mess something up with that. but i can only ride the wheelie a short distance maybe 5 feet. i want to be able to ride them for a longer distance and have a more consistant wheelies. what's the easiest way i can do that? i know ill probably get some responses like get a bigger bike but i can't afford that right now..
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okay so i have a 99 600s with a holeshot stage 1 jet kit and yoshimura exhaust.. and i've been trying to wheelie for a while, I have got the front wheel off the ground several times, sometime high and sometimes only a few inches off the ground. i don't use the clutch don't want to mess something up with that. but i can only ride the wheelie a short distance maybe 5 feet. i want to be able to ride them for a longer distance and have a more consistant wheelies. what's the easiest way i can do that? i know ill probably get some responses like get a bigger bike but i can't afford that right now..
I'd say practice on an old beater 2-stroke dirt bike... on the dirt. It's softer. :wink:
Just about any 125cc or bigger will wheelie if you dump the clutch with the revs up, like between 1st and 2nd gear.
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I'd say practice on an old beater 2-stroke dirt bike... on the dirt. It's softer. :wink:
Just about any 125cc or bigger will wheelie if you dump the clutch with the revs up, like between 1st and 2nd gear.
+1
If you wanna learn to balance the wheelie so you can ride it for a long time you will make mistakes and go too far or off to the side. Dirt bikes will take this kind of punishment better than your Bandit... and like Zen said, crashing in the dirt is usually a little less painful... and you'll never get a ticket for wheelies off road.
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okay that's a good tip... it may seem as though i want to be able to wheelie all the time... i just really want to be able to do it once in a while... but whats the easiest and most consistant way to get the front end up? would that be using the clutch? if so anyone know the revs it has the be at? or will i just have to play around with it.. i have no problem with the balance side to side or anything it's just keeping to front up i have a problem with
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i have no problem with the balance side to side or anything it's just keeping to front up i have a problem with
Side to side balance won't even come into play until you can keep the front wheel up. That's a pretty bad time to be figuring out you actually do have trouble with side to side balance. Easiest way to get the front tire up is to whack the throttle once you get to about 6k. Good luck. Have someone film while your practicing. :stickpoke:
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=qncPBZ9DRRk
That's a decent vid that explains some of the basics. At least they tell you not to bother with the trickier stuff until you get the basics down. From what they say it's easiest letting the clutch slip to get the front end up, and yeah, you'll need to keep the rpm's up pretty high.
The whole thing of shifting while the wheel is up in the air just seems nuts to me.
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The shifting thing is really not that crazy. Once you get the balance, you just shift it without the clutch when you feel the bike is coasting I.E. the chain is not loaded positive or negative.
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Finally had the bandit out a couple times now and can say with some authority that I find is easy to wheelie. I've only done straight power wheelies without any clutch, and had a couple times when I wanted to simply float the front end have it pop up higher than I'd intended.
Don't really want to have wheelie practice on my baby, and am somewhat regretting never having a dirt bike as a kid. I'll probably get a dirt bike next year to make up for the lost time. No sense in dumping the bandit over something silly.
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okay that's a good tip... it may seem as though i want to be able to wheelie all the time... i just really want to be able to do it once in a while... but whats the easiest and most consistant way to get the front end up? would that be using the clutch? if so anyone know the revs it has the be at? or will i just have to play around with it.. i have no problem with the balance side to side or anything it's just keeping to front up i have a problem with
Don't use the clutch for wheelies. That is just brutal on every aspect of the bike.
If you want to learn on the bandit, practice first gear power wheelies. Get the RPM's up to about 5k, then just give a QUICK twist on the throttle. Do that and feel how the bike responds. As you get more comfortable with the front wheel coming higher and higher, find the balance point.
Once you get that far, you can get a little pull on the handle bars to get it up quicker. Then, once you are just comfortable lofting the front end up to the balance point, you can start jamming second.
Just don't start chopping the throttle to bring it down. Let off a bit and as the front start coming down, throttle back up so that you get a smooth landing. Wheelies are hell on the forks.
If you get real daring, throw the passenger left footpeg out and start doing staggered wheelies. :lol:
But really....clutching is horrible, bounce a wheelie or go home if you ask me.
As for the article. With a good bounce I can loft the front wheel up in 2nd, I can't get much of anything out of 3rd with stock gearing. I'm not willing to throw my weight too far back though. I'm 6'4 and that just gets unstable on a Bandit. I just love throwing it up in first and banging through the gears.
(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/541898/fullsize/000_0038.jpg)
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Power wheelies are what I'm sticking with. I do want to get used to them so when the front does lift up an inch or so I know what to expect when it comes back down. Few weeks back I was riding one of my favorite roads. Came out of a hard downhill right hander that immediately goes up a short hill then a long downhill straight. Powered up the hill and when I hit the crest the front came up on me unexpected. Was fun, but took my breath away for a second...lol
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StangMATA is right about the extereme wear and tear that can result from using the clutch.
Also, I think it is kind of cool to be able to just roll on the power to get it up. When you have the power to do that, it makes the clutch method seem like something that lesser bikes must do to "look like they have power".
I'll never forget a Dodge Coronet that a neighbor had in 1967 with a hot 426 Hemi. He didn't have to use the clutch to induce massive wheelspin, he just blipped the throttle with the car rolling and the clutch out and the whole thing went up in smoke. The other cars with hot-rod small blocks had to use the clutch to get a "look-alike" result.
Again, using the clutch to do wheelies can do some very bad things to the driveline if you don't take all the slack out by slipping it first before letting go.
And it just does not have the impact of a "real" roll-on power wheelie.
My 2 cents.
Dave
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I'll never forget a Dodge Coronet that a neighbor had in 1967 with a hot 426 Hemi. He didn't have to use the clutch to induce massive wheelspin, he just blipped the throttle with the car rolling and the clutch out and the whole thing went up in smoke.
Too bad he didn't have better tires... I'm much more impressed by cars that can do wheelies than I am by smokey burnouts. Wheelies were my favorite thing to do in my '65 Mustang with it's poor little hot-rodded small block 289... but 10" slicks and 4.63 posi helped. :wink:
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This is a power wheelie :motorsmile:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z295/rlholland3175/253ChanHouston4.jpg)
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This is a power wheelie :motorsmile:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z295/rlholland3175/253ChanHouston4.jpg)
Damn Ninja riders :stickpoke:
Cool pic man :bandit:
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Can you folks just stop doing wheelies on the highway? My co-workers keep hassling me about those guys, and it's getting boring to keep explaining that I've never done a wheelie in my life.
And whichever of you punks likes to lean back and drive with his feet -- go find a bed if you want a nap, alright?
Thanks!