Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => PRODUCT REVIEWS => Topic started by: Snubnose on February 20, 2007, 10:42:22 PM
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Seems like the Gel seat market has a significant higher demand than it used to. This has caused alot of sellers to inflate their sale price to well above what they bought them for new.
Do we follow a "fellow riders" code at all? , y'know , helping other riders out?, i.e fellow banditos? in line with the nature of this board, and do "solids" for other riders of the like? or is everything fair game in a capitalist society?
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Absolutely! If people desire to be subject to the preconceived idea of having to have someone else upholster a piece of gel foam into their motorcycle seat at exorbitant cost for such a simple procedure, the entrepreneur deserves to make that profit. Otherwise the alternative would be socialism.
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Whatever the market will bear.
It's basic supply & demand economics.
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Think petroleum. Is it right that they raise their prices just because there is limited supply and lots of people want it?
Sure, if they choose to. It is theirs, after all. If they ask too much, sales go down.
Someone asking too much for a seat, won't sell it.
Unless I'm on line shopping at the time. :grin:
I think the only time right & wrong enter an equation is when there is an emergency situation and essential supplies and goods are involved. Gel seats don't count. :bigok:
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Well hopefully this discussion is within the confines of prudent economics. Historically we all know the Government has stepped in to break up monopolies and support competitive enterprise which offsets the concerns posed here. It is a fact of world economics that the United States is the easiest country in the world to get rich and why so many bring there money here. The system is designed to reward those that "think" investment in opportunities to provide services for those that "need". In this way the system stays healthy and self sustaining without over involvement by the central incentives of the government, which is very inefficient. The alternative is one of the many forms of dictatorship where the people are taught negative incentive and "not think" which is not self sustaining and everyone starts to starve. So have fun and do all the things you already do, just don't forget if you don't "think" investment, you will never accumulate excess like some of your opportunistic neighbors. Whether you are a citizens or foreign national, in this country disenfranchisement or wealth is 95% the result of your own actions.
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Well hopefully this discussion is within the confines of prudent economics. Historically we all know the Government has stepped in to break up monopolies and support competitive enterprise which offsets the concerns posed here. It is a fact of world economics that the United States is the easiest country in the world to get rich and why so many bring there money here. The system is designed to reward those that "think" investment in opportunities to provide services for those that "need". In this way the system stays healthy and self sustaining without over involvement by the central incentives of the government, which is very inefficient. The alternative is one of the many forms of dictatorship where the people are taught negative incentive and "not think" which is not self sustaining and everyone starts to starve. So have fun and do all the things you already do, just don't forget if you don't "think" investment, you will never accumulate excess like some of your opportunistic neighbors. Whether you are a citizens or foreign national, in this country disenfranchisement or wealth is 95% the result of your own actions.
By the way, you seem like a fella that needs a gel seat and I just happen to have one for sale for a measley $400 + 50 shipping. You can't beat that deal! Don't let this one get away from you! Supplies are limited! Only 1 at this price! Limited time offer! :grin:
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Actually I lost the bid on ebay for a travelcade 12x15 3/4 inch thick gel insert replacement new for $22, out bid at $20 to save the $50 cost of the "Buy Now" cost. Your price is fine if you can get it, but I am too socially independent and can easily remove the upholstery cover, cut the section of foam for the insert and staple the cover back to the seat frame perfectly and wala!, new gel seat with $350 in cost avoidance, or as Ben put it "a penny saved is a penny earned."
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Absolutely! If people desire to be subject to the preconceived idea of having to have someone else upholster a piece of gel foam into their motorcycle seat at exorbitant cost for such a simple procedure, the entrepreneur deserves to make that profit. Otherwise the alternative would be socialism.
Gotta disagree there, Chief! Capitalism is no better than Socialism for one simple reason: Both continue to foster the never-ending class war that has always decimated the humming-bean race. Competition (for bragging rights) leads to resentment, which leads to hatred, which leads to war. Same goes for the greed caused by capitalism and socialism that leads to an "I got mine, you got yours?" mentality. When asked why they do this, the answer is always the same: "Because we can"! Power corrupts.
How come no one sees that competition is the diametric opposite of co-operation, and that it was ALWAYS leaders who fostered co-operation that led to peace? There are those within the top 6% wealthiest on the planet who believe in the time-tested "divide and conquer" strategy to stay in power and control. These critters are right now running unbridled over our big blue marble, and our grand rooster in the white house is just one of their good 'ol boys.
I work in a VA hospital, so I get to see their handiwork close up. :bomb: "Tain't purdy, McGee".
That's the long answer as to why some may wish to charge less rather than more for their gel seats!
Herb
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Well hopefully this discussion is within the confines of prudent economics. Historically we all know the Government has stepped in to break up monopolies and support competitive enterprise which offsets the concerns posed here. It is a fact of world economics that the United States is the easiest country in the world to get rich and why so many bring there money here. The system is designed to reward those that "think" investment in opportunities to provide services for those that "need". In this way the system stays healthy and self sustaining without over involvement by the central incentives of the government, which is very inefficient. The alternative is one of the many forms of dictatorship where the people are taught negative incentive and "not think" which is not self sustaining and everyone starts to starve. So have fun and do all the things you already do, just don't forget if you don't "think" investment, you will never accumulate excess like some of your opportunistic neighbors. Whether you are a citizens or foreign national, in this country disenfranchisement or wealth is 95% the result of your own actions.
Do those "opportunistic neighbors" include the ruling class in Saudi Arabia, where the very few hold 99% of the wealth while the rest of their countrymen starve and suffer? Maybe that's why most of the 9/11 aircrews were Saudis!
Well, sir, I spent 5 years on freezing flightlines fixing B-47's with H-bombs on board, ready to blow up half the planet, with the fall-out sure to destroy the other half, so I had lots of time to think. I joined up with a gung-ho attitude, ending up in the the 509th bomb wing (8th AF) ready to help kill us all. Believe me when I tell you that even as only an "aider and abettor" in this insane enterprise, no matter who was "right" or "wrong", led to nightmares that persist even today.
At one time, I felt exactly as you do, thinking that if you were "down", I had the right to kick you in the nuts. But those nightmares eventually led to a realization that people are the same everywhere (at least those of us who are not psychotic), so why are we unable to live our lives peacefully, grow old, enjoy our grandchildren in peace, and die happy after a fulfilled life? Answer: The psychotics, having no consciences, always rise to positions of power because they have no scruples whatever. They feel no pain, other than being thwarted; they feel no remorse for any of their actions; they think that everyone is on earth for THEIR PERSONAL BENEFIT ONLY. Hm-mm! Sounds like what so many in this world in power impose upon their fellow beings.
"Rotsa ruck, G.I."
Herb
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I couldn't help myself
The system is designed to reward those that "think" investment in opportunities to provide services for those that "need". In this way the system stays healthy and self sustaining without over involvement by the central incentives of the government
If that's the case why is it that your wonderful Government pays your farmers huge subsidies to compete on the world market????
Oh and as for Gel seats, just buy a Sheepskin Seat cover, no extra work involved, buy it-fit it, other than the ones god gave us - there's no tools required.
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:lol: Me neither...
I couldn't help myself
If that's the case why is it that your wonderful Government pays your farmers huge subsidies to compete on the world market????
Don't forget our gov't also pays them not to grow... and our gov't gives food away, even to our enemies. I recall several times we gave the Soviet Union grain when their crops did poorly.
As for subsidies, I don't think they sould hand them out. Not to farmers, or anyone else. The subsidies that really get me are the taxpayer funded handouts to pro sports teams for their playing fields. If this is such a great investment, as they always pitch to us taxpayers to get us to vote to fund them, then why don't the people who profit from the team's presence pay for them instead of hitting up the spectators twice. Once at tax time and again to buy a ticket.
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Don't forget our gov't also pays them not to grow...
:wtf:
Don't get me wrong, I can fully understand and fully support subsidies in times of hardship, prolonged droughts (as we have now) or natural disasters like cyclones/hurricanes/floods/fires etc.
But to pay farmers NOT TO GROW something, that is just plain stupid.....
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This question is about integrity vs. greed, not capitalism.
If you were in the business of selling gel seats for a living, then you charge what the market will bear... or discount to outsell your competitors. That's capitalism, just business.
If you just have one gel seat to sell, it's a matter of how you conduct yourself in your personal life, and interaction with others.
You have two choices...
1. Sell the seat for more than what you paid for it, take the guy's money and walk away. The guy you sold it to knows you took advantage of the fact they are hard to find, and probably resents it. Yeah, you made a few bucks, so I guess the money is pretty important to you.
2. You sell the gel seat for what you paid for it, or even less if it's a little worn. The guy realizes you could have made more money, but he shakes your hand, looks you in the eye, and you know you just gained another man's respect. You walk away feeling good, and maybe you made a new friend.
Even if the guy thinks you're a sucker for not charging more, that's his problem. You know you did the honorable thing and you're integrity remains strong.
I choose #2. A few extra bucks isn't worth losing even a small piece of my character, which I try my best to uphold to ethical standards. I guess it was my Grandad who pounded it into me... "You can lose your money or your house, and still build a new life. But if you lose your honor, you lose everything that makes you a man."
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when it comes to selling things, I generally don't like selling stuff to people I know. Why, because it can come back to bite you in the a%se if something goes wrong, and you suddenly become public enemy No 1.
For that reason I don't mind making a few bucks when I sell to a stranger.
But I will sell at a fair a reasonable price to a mate...in fact depending on how much it cost me - anything less than $50.00 - I'd be happy if they bought me a beer or 3.
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My bike came with the gell seat... Now I feel like a Star-Belly Sneetche from a Dr. Seuss story.
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Zenman, you are absolutely correct. It is either integrity or greed. No gray area in that one at all. And, like you, I choose #2. No way am I going to lessen or demean my character over money. For no amount. The person is always the most important aspect here. It was your Grandfather and it was my Father. He told me "if you don't have integrity, you will never have anything for any period of time. Not friends, family, jobs or anything else, because the lack of it will always catch up to you"!!!
He told me that at a very young age and I always remembered it and live by it to this day... Banditone1250s... :motorsmile:
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This question is about integrity vs. greed, not capitalism.
If you were in the business of selling gel seats for a living, then you charge what the market will bear... or discount to outsell your competitors. That's capitalism, just business.
If you just have one gel seat to sell, it's a matter of how you conduct yourself in your personal life, and interaction with others.
You have two choices...
1. Sell the seat for more than what you paid for it, take the guy's money and walk away. The guy you sold it to knows you took advantage of the fact they are hard to find, and probably resents it. Yeah, you made a few bucks, so I guess the money is pretty important to you.
2. You sell the gel seat for what you paid for it, or even less if it's a little worn. The guy realizes you could have made more money, but he shakes your hand, looks you in the eye, and you know you just gained another man's respect. You walk away feeling good, and maybe you made a new friend.
So, where's choice 3?
The free-market choice of lots of individuals - ebay!
Personally, if it was something like a gel seat, I'd probably offer it up on this site for a non-profit price and if there were no takers in a reasonable amount of time, I'd put it up on ebay and let the market decide what it's worth.
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Is it greed that drives the prices in collectables?
What did a L-88 Corvette sell for in 1967? $8000?
What does one cost today?
Hint: It's more than what $8000 in 1967's money is today.
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I'm just talking about selling it for what you paid for it, or maybe a little less if you damaged it or put some wear and tear on it, as opposed to trying to make a profit just because they are hard to find. Is that not the honorable thing to do?
If you are in the business of selling gel seats, well, business ethics are a different story, because your livelihood depends on making a profit. How big or fair of a profit depends on you, and how you conduct your business.
But if nobody bought my seat for what I paid, minus any wear or damage, then I'd do the same as you, Red, and put it on Ebay. What else is there left to do at that point anyway? :wink:
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However, on the flip side of the coin, you could argue since it isn't made anymore and the supply is therefore limited, the price is whatever the market will bear - no matter if you're a business or not.
To say it's OK for a business to use supply & demand, but not an individual isn't really fair either. What this implies is it would be OK for me to start a business and scoop up all the hard-to-find, out-of-production stuff I could get my hands on - afterall, all those folks with integrity won't sell for any more than they paid, and run the prices up.
So, if you bought the theoretical L-88 Vette in '67 for $8000, you'd sell it today for $7999 or less and not the typical asking price of $200,000? If so, man, I gotta find a guy like you with a L-88!!! Not to turn a profit, but because that's the only way I could ever afford one.
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However, on the flip side of the coin, you could argue since it isn't made anymore and the supply is therefore limited, the price is whatever the market will bear - no matter if you're a business or not.
To say it's OK for a business to use supply & demand, but not an individual isn't really fair either. What this implies is it would be OK for me to start a business and scoop up all the hard-to-find, out-of-production stuff I could get my hands on - afterall, all those folks with integrity won't sell for any more than they paid, and run the prices up.
So, if you bought the theoretical L-88 Vette in '67 for $8000, you'd sell it today for $7999 or less and not the typical asking price of $200,000? If so, man, I gotta find a guy like you with a L-88!!! Not to turn a profit, but because that's the only way I could ever afford one.
Now your getting ridiculous... comparing a 67 'Vette to a gel seat. :lol:
Do what ya want. You're just spoiling for an argument anyway. Sorry, not playing! :motorsmile:
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Actually, it's the same thing.
Both were only made in limited quantities and are no longer made so price gets determined by how bad you want one or your ability to find one where the owner is willing to sell below normal current street value, knowingly or not.
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when it comes to selling things, I generally don't like selling stuff to people I know. Why, because it can come back to bite you in the a%se if something goes wrong, and you suddenly become public enemy No 1.
Try employing a family member, sorry my 2 cents worth. :annoy: excuse me while I go find a wall to crack with my head, trust me its far less painfull. :banghead:
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You guys are getting a little crazy over a gell seat. I say if you want one just go buy one that "is" on the market today and forget the rest. Not worth losing friends over that's for sure. Like aussiebandit said, it is just not worth it. Give it up if ya wanna sell it and if ya don't forget it. There are plenty of gell seats on the market today, just go buy one if ya wanna a gell seat. No worries mate...Banditone1250s... :boohoo:
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This debate, of course, has only barely touched on the fact that nobody NEEDS a gel seat, like they need food and shelter f'rinstance......
However there are, apparently, quite a few folks that WANT a gel seat....which is a different matter entirely.
All bets are off regarding "sales/pricing ethics" when discussing "wants". To my mind, this is pretty simple economics...... :grin:
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Seems like the Gel seat market has a significant higher demand than it used to. This has caused alot of sellers to inflate their sale price to well above what they bought them for new.
WOW!, I really did open pandoras box here!. Sorry guys! :sad: Did mention that I got one off Ebay from some auto-wreckers that didnt know what he was selling?. Paid $60 for it. DO I feel bad?...Should I feel bad? ( there I go, probing Pandora again!- I'm asking for trouble! :stickpoke: )
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If anyone wants a gell seat, mine is for sale.
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If anyone wants a gell seat, mine is for sale.
put it on the for sale section!
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Obviously, this is a supply and demand thread based upon the percieved value of a seat that is in limited supply. I have one seat available and there is currently very little demand. As a supplier of the product in question I have set a price that I believe is reasonable for the limited market, $150.
I'd like to offer my :thanks: to you for kindly pointing out the 'for sale section' available. It has been listed there for 4 months.
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I'd like to offer my :thanks: to you for kindly pointing out the 'for sale section' available. It has been listed there for 4 months.
Sorry, Didn't realize, only trying to help! :grin:
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An OEM gel seat is so very easy to make and at such low cost ($24-$45) that its hard to fathom why people would pay the kind money thats charged, like having a safety tube installed as an option with your new tubeless tire for an additional $300. Amazing!
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An OEM gel seat is so very easy to make and at such low cost ($24-$45) that its hard to fathom why people would pay the kind money thats charged, like having a safety tube installed as an option with your new tubeless tire for an additional $300. Amazing!
Ah, but you have to be that way inclined, AND have the time to do it! :stickpoke:
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An OEM gel seat is so very easy to make and at such low cost ($24-$45) that its hard to fathom why people would pay the kind money thats charged, like having a safety tube installed as an option with your new tubeless tire for an additional $300. Amazing!
I don't know about that. The Suzuki gel seat has a totally different shape to it, and a very nice looking cover, plus the gel. I think it's vinyl, but looks like leather and is durable. At the time they were an option, you got a whole new seat for a lousy $85 or so. You'd never be able to buy the gel, reshape the seat, and recover it for that money. Plus you end up with 2 seats should one ever get damaged.
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Yes you make a good point about being inclined, but also based on need and application. I started upholstering my dirt bikes seats with ready made high volume low density foam fitted cushions and matching seat covers to alleviate pain and injury from the much harder impact environment received from off road riding, for about $100 a pop. I found the procedure so easy I did it to all my off road motorcycles but then graduated to just modifying the existing OEM seats with layers of Gel which took less work, was cheaper ($24) and functioned much better. You really learn allot fast about the cause and effect of different seat foams and gel application off road. What I found was that it doesn't take a very thick piece of gel (3/8") to get the benefits of impact and weight dispersion which makes a long time in the saddle much more tolerable as opposed to seemingly pleasant to the immediate touch under you or by hand.
So for me its all about function. Looks beyond OEM styling don't really interest me as it is appealing enough. With respect to my B1250 the higher density OEM foam used is much better for sport handling then the privious softy, and although seemingly firm for long rides I had no comfort issues at all but I also wear heavily padded crash shorts on long rides which makes a huge difference. In fact the firmer OEM B1250 seat was actually more conformable as it provided more support preventing sink slouching in a soft seat. Having said that I probubly will still take 40 minutes to embed a 3/8 inch section of upholstery gel to improve intermediate range comfort when I'm not wearing crash shorts. When I do I will post it in detail.
An OEM gel seat is so very easy to make and at such low cost ($24-$45) that its hard to fathom why people would pay the kind money thats charged, like having a safety tube installed as an option with your new tubeless tire for an additional $300. Amazing!
Ah, but you have to be that way inclined, AND have the time to do it! :stickpoke:
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Yes you make a good point about being inclined, I started upholstering...
With only ONE bike, I'd be too afraid of F**King it up! :duh:
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CWO4Gunner, where do you source your gel from? I would like to do my seat but have not idea where to get the stuff. Thanks :beers:
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An OEM gel seat is so very easy to make and at such low cost ($24-$45) that its hard to fathom why people would pay the kind money thats charged, like having a safety tube installed as an option with your new tubeless tire for an additional $300. Amazing!
SO WHERE IS A GOOD PLACE TO GET THE GEL INSERTS?....AND WHAT SIZE AND/OR THICKNESS SHOULD I GET FOR A 2001 1200S STOCK SEAT?....
I HAVE AN EXTRA COMPLETE SEAT THAT I WANT TO INSTALL THE GEL INSERTS INTO.....
THANKS.....
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Look on Ebay, I found a seller that has it for something like 30 cents a square inch. may have been more I just remember it was cheap. Just search upholstery gel.