Bandit Alley
GENERAL MOTORCYCLE FORUMS => PRODUCT REVIEWS => Topic started by: ZenMan on December 20, 2006, 11:13:21 AM
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I was on the phone last night with Dale Walker of Holeshot Performance and I have to say it wasn't a very pleasant experience. He was very rude, arrogant, and extremely interruptive. Every time I started to ask something he would drown me out.
I realize that everyone has their "bad hair days", but I also believe in polite, helpful service, especially when dealing with a new customer such as myself.
I had called him to ask what he knew about the new '07 1250 Bandit. I was interested in purchasing one of his Comp 2 slip-ons for experimenting with my new bike when it arrives next month.
He argued with me that I wouldn't be able to install it, even though he didn't know what the new pipe dameter was. I said I could make my own elbow pipe to adapt it, and he got very sarcastic and told me "yeah, right, good luck wth that, buddy".
He also told me that my Suzuki dealer was "full of crap" and that there was no way that I could receive my new Bandit before he could get one. My dealer happens to be a very nice older couple I have dealt with over several excellent purchases, and they had ordered this bike months ago and therefore are at the top of the waiting list. But Mr. Walker insisted that they were "lying to me" and that he "would get one before I or anybody else would". There was no way Suzuki was going to send a new model to "some lousy little dealership" before sending him one.
By the way, I'm in my 50's and I'm not used to being talked to in such a disrespectful manner and tone.
I have no idea of the performance or quality of Holeshot Performance Products, but I certainly will never find out now. Customer service is at the top of my list when dealing with companies, and Dale Walker failed miserably in that department.
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This is highly surprising to me. In my dealings with Dale he has ALWAYS been very polite, professional & helpful.
In so far as him getting an '07 before anyone else, this I do not know. I do know that although some dealer may have ordered an '07 before another, it is not uncommon for manufacturers to fill orders for new items not by date which the order was received, but by relevance of who placed the order. If I have a limited number of something, I will do my best to spread it around, but my best customers are going to get the item 1st.
With regards to fitting an existing aftermarket accessory to a new bike, I would agree with Dale that this is not likely to be very easy, or effective. The '07 has a completely new motor, with fuel injection, catalytic converter, O2 sensors, etc. Certainly, a completely new design is in order for an exhaust system for the '07. These things take a lot of R&D & time. That is why I will likely wait until at least '08 to get a new Bandit.
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What I posted are my honest impressions and I've quoted him as accurately as my memory serves me. I have absolutely no reason to smear Dale Walkers name for nothing, his attitude both angered and disappointed me.
I have gotten feedback from other boards that confirm my testamonial, by other folks who have reported the exact same experience with Mr. Walker on the phone.
I realize the differences in the new '07 model Bandit, and I've had years of experience racing motorcycles and building race bikes in my past. I was hoping we would be able to collaborate on this regardless of who received the bike first.
Unfortunately Mr. Walker's constant interruptions and arrogant, dismissive attitude towards me made any meaningful communication impossible.
However, the woman I spoke to earlier was very polite and helpful. I'm told she is Dale's wife, and she is an asset to his company. Kudos to Mrs. Walker.
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What I posted are my honest impressions and I've quoted him as accurately as my memory serves me. I have absolutely no reason to smear Dale Walkers name for nothing, his attitude both angered and disappointed me.
I was in no way implying that your account of the events were malicious or inaccurate. Just this is the 1st negative feedback that I ever seen, or personally experienced, with Dale or his products. I was just surprised. I guess everyone has their bad days.
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What I posted are my honest impressions and I've quoted him as accurately as my memory serves me. I have absolutely no reason to smear Dale Walkers name for nothing, his attitude both angered and disappointed me.
I was in no way implying that your account of the events were malicious or inaccurate. Just this is the 1st negative feedback that I ever seen, or personally experienced, with Dale or his products. I was just surprised. I guess everyone has their bad days.
Of course. I'm happy to learn that he has his "good days" too. Unfortunately, I'm not the only one to experience one of his "bad" ones. http://11109.rapidforum.com/topic=103473337111
I've made my comments, I expect each individual to have their own opinion.
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Zenman, you should post this here at http://www.maximum-suzuki.com/ . Be careful, they are very pro Dale. Just be up front and honest as you were here. Post it in the Holeshot forum, Dale checks it regulary.
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Zenman, you should post this here at http://www.maximum-suzuki.com/ .
My sentiments exactly. This one is sure to get the blood boiling.
I'm just gonna get my popcorn and watch this drama unfold :lol:
BTW....I've dealt with Dale on many occasions and he was a nice guy by phone and email. Everybody has PMS I guess, huh...lol
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Zenman, you should post this here at http://www.maximum-suzuki.com/ . Be careful, they are very pro Dale. Just be up front and honest as you were here. Post it in the Holeshot forum, Dale checks it regulary.
I'm not regisered there, and why should I? So I can get trashed and flamed on a board that Dale Walker practically owns?
I have no doubt that Mr. Walker will be informed of my post here, and we'll see what he has to say about it then.
Whatever comes of this, I've said my piece. I posted this as a complaint with the full knowledge that others have the perogative of agreeing or disagreeing, just as I have the perogative to voice my complaint where I so choose. Anyone who wants me to jump into the lion's den for the sake of their petty entertainment will be disappointed. Sorry.
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I dont think thats what we really want you to do. Your complaint seems genuine. I just wanted you to be aware of max suz as being a board that he watches more than most. Obviously you know that, so no worries. I myself would post it there being a valid complaint. You didnt seem to be on a mission to slander Dale, just stating the facts. But you are most likely right, he'll probably see this post soon enough and hopefully he will either explain what happened and maybe resolve your issue, or just tell you to go to hell. Or something in between perhaps. I personally would like to see the end result of this. :beers:
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Obviously there's two sides to every story and while I won't argue that Dale may have indeed had a 'bad hair day'... my several dealings with him have been great.
When I read your post I had the thought that maybe Dale was trying to convince you to just wait a month or two for him to develop a new exhaust for the new Bandit 1250 instead of trying to hack on one of the older model exhausts.
He WILL be one of the first people in the country to get the new Bandit.. and probably also be one of the first companies to have a model-specific exhaust system for it.
Again... this may not be the case... but if someone told me they wanted to use an old product on a new bike... when the new one will be available in a few months... I might be a little short with them as well.
Just my $.02 worth.
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ZENMAN,
Take a chill pill man, nobody wants to see you get eaten alive anyway. At least put up a fight...lol
Seriously, go take a ride and calm your nerves :banana:
What's the word on your bike? Any potential pipe makers you've heard of?
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It's not exactly rocket science. If he'd have given me a chance to explain my background instead of cutting me off every three words, he may have realized he was talking to a knowledgeable person, not the squid idiot he treated me as.
I was a professional auto technician for 28 years, an A.S.E. certified Master Mechanic with 9 certifications in everything from diagnostics and computer-controlled fuel injection to rebuilding truck transmissions and frame repair. I can arc, gas, MIG and TIG weld. On top of that I road-raced for 5 years with WERA and built and tuned my own race bikes. I've ported and polished 4-valve, 4-inline heads and tuned barrels full of carbs.
The reason I was calling him was to discuss possible approaches towards tuning the new Bandit to optimimum specs, being that he has more experience in building actual exhaust systems. I was willing to buy one of his Comp 2 slip-ons and use it as a base to start the tuning process, and I would have been happy to share knowledge and discovery with Dale as it went along, without any expectation of monetary benefit on my part.
Unfortunately I never got a chance to explain any of this, as he rudely interrupted me every time I opened my mouth. When I finally got five words in, "I'm getting one next month", he immediately became sarcastic and verbally abusive, going so far as to suggest that my dealer was "full of crap" and I was being lied to. I was then informed there was no way a nobody like me was going to get a new Bandit before he was, not in those exact words, but that was the obvious gist of it.
I thought I made all this perfectly clear, it had nothing to do with Mr. Walker trying to "save me from myself" or any such thing. Quite simply, he was a total ass.
Mr.Bam, I'm not upset. I originally posted this as a heads-up to anyone thinking of calling Mr. Walker on the phone. Obviously he has many supporters who defend him and that's fine. I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I'm not the only one who he has treated this way, so I don't feel it was me being difficult or being a "complainer". I can't think of what I could have said to deserve such treatment, as I said, I never got more than a few words the whole time.
My statement stands. If it was an isolated incident, fine. If Mr. Walker chooses to put the blame on me, that's fine too. I've explained myself as far as I feel like going with it. Suffice it to say I will not be dealing with Holeshot Performance in the future. What anyone else thinks or does is entirely up to them.
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While his manners on the telephone may be lacking, it seems to me that Dale Walker is quite accomplished in the world of performance as it relates to Suzuki Bandits and is more than capable of "going it on his own". I can see how it may benefit you to share notes with him, but I'm not sure I see any benefit for him. I suspect Dale didn't see any either and is probably deluged with calls from guys wanting to pick his brain about this and that when it is all pretty much just a waste of his time. That may explain his abrasive attitude when the subject of a phone call infers that he could use your help to tune "the new Bandit to optimimum specs". And you certainly didn't make any indication here that you are any kind of guru that has made a name for yourself with respect to Bandit performance or design that would make him think "Now here is someone I should really listen to."
Perhaps you may have been better received had you mailed your proposal in written form and given him the chance to analyze it at a time more convenient to him. At the very least, it would have saved you the aggravation of his interruptions before you could give him a full explanation.
My one personal contact with Mr.Walker was cordial and informative, but I wasn't trying to match wits with him or get something for nothing. I bought his product and was very, very pleased with it.
There was a time on an online forum I frequent when some of his customers were grousing about the riveted-on logo that he was putting on his slip-ons (because they thought they were ugly) and he refused to leave them off. He explained that he had worked hard for the name recognition he had and felt he had a right to sell his product as he saw fit. I thought they were ugly too, but I agreed with him. Now I see he makes the slip-ons with the name engraved on the ends which is more pleasing to the eye and still retains his name recognition. So my point is that he is not inflexible.
I would also point out that I have never seen a post of his where he flamed someone about a private conversation they had. I'm sure he has had many opportunities where he found himself speaking with an ass, but I haven't seen him post about it.
Good luck with your endeavor to find the perfect exhaust for your new Bandit. Whatever it is, however, it won't sound any sweeter than a Holeshot nor perform any better for the price. :wink:
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Look, it obviously doesn't matter how well I explain myself here, some Dale Walker supporter is going to come along and tell me why it is all my fault, because Dale Walker is such a perfect human being, it can't possibly be his.
I already stated that I didn't even have a chance to get more than 5 words in edgewise, there was no way he could have gotten any impression at all from me about where I was coming from. Others have reported the same experience with Mr. Walker, I posted a link to one source that illustrates this.
I never meant this to become a big argument or pissing contest between me and Dale Walker's friends and supporters, but apparently I should have known better and just kept my mouth shut. You don't know me. You weren't there. I posted nothing but the truth. The guy was a jerk. Believe it or not. Think whatever you want. I DON'T CARE.
I'm done with this.
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Dale Walker knocked up my daughter and sold my dog to a Korean grocer! :stickpoke:
Actually I have talked to Dale many times and he has always been very tolerant of my stupid questions. Although sometimes he certainly can talk and talk! LOL. . Without his assistance, I would have completely given up on my tuning issues.
That sucks that he lost a customer(s). Reminds me of another tuner, Ivan's Performance in NY. A few have absolutely condemned him and others have nothing but praise for him. Weird.
Good for you for recounting the story without attacking him.
So what do you think you are going to do when you get your new bike? Any other avenues for custom exhaust?
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DirtyDawg-Well said.
ZenMan-It is apparent to me that from the highly defensive nature & tone of your replies in this thread, that perhaps Dale was not very cordial towards you, but that may have stemmed from your approach. No one here, myself included, ever called you a liar or implied that you had an ax to grind with Dale, yet you seem to be offended that we did not offer you our total support in this issue.
No company, that I am aware of, has 100% customer satisfaction. Sometimes it's the fault of the company, sometimes it's the customer. Some people just cannot be pleased unless they get it 100% their way, 100% of the time, which is just not feasible. Sometimes a customer's expectations far outreach reality.
There are plenty of exhaust manufacturers out there. Try calling Yoshimura, offer them your services & opinions and see how far you get. In today's corporate world, it is rare that you can even pick up the phone and speak to the owner/engineer/designer of a product. It's a free market economy with as I stated, plenty of exhaust manufacturers. If you feel mistreated by Dale, fine don't buy his products, but please don't expect blind support when 99.8% of Dale's customers are happy not only with his products, but also his customer service.
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ZenMan-It is apparent to me that from the highly defensive nature & tone of your replies in this thread, that perhaps Dale was not very cordial towards you, but that may have stemmed from your approach. No one here, myself included, ever called you a liar or implied that you had an ax to grind with Dale, yet you seem to be offended that we did not offer you our total support in this issue.
Of course. It's all my doing because of my "approach", which consisted of saying "Hi, Dale? I'm calling about the new '07 Bandit and" at which point I was interrupted at every turn.
Oh, I see, you were on the other line listening, and that's how you arrived at your conclusions. Excuse me for being "highly defensive". :roll:
Bye.
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LMFAO!!!! :yesno:
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Dale's amatuer lawyers are always to his rescue as usual. I like the guy, but its always funny to see people trying to jump in front of a bus to save him. :duh:
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It's funny how reading posts for general information can help you come to a decision. I own an '05 Bandit 1200/S, have been pretty happy with it for the 15,000 miles I've put on it, but have been wrestling with either upgrading the suspension and adding a stage 1 kit and pipe or getting a new Strom 1K. Last week, I'd pretty much decided to farkelize the Bandit, but reading this thread has helped to change my mind. I'd just rather ride the wheels off something I'll be happy (or happier) on than futz with the damned thing.
Thanks gang, I'm going to become a Stromtrooper.
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Dale's amatuer lawyers are always to his rescue as usual. I like the guy, but its always funny to see people trying to jump in front of a bus to save him. :duh:
Lawyers get paid to jump in front of of buses.
Happy customers don't.
I don't get one iota of reciprocation from Dale for defending him. Dale spent about an hour with me in the last couple years... half of which was regarding one of his products that I bought 2nd hand from someone else... fully knowing there would be no financial gain for him.
So you are insulting me personally. Your statement "I like the guy" is a fluffy little piece of diversion that really just indicates that you've never really dealt with him personally.
And by the way... a hit-and-run smarmy comment like that... you wouldn't happen to be a liberal would ya? :wink:
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Dale's amatuer lawyers are always to his rescue as usual. I like the guy, but its always funny to see people trying to jump in front of a bus to save him. :duh:
I've seen a bus and Zen-man is no bus. Instead of confronting his problem head-on, he chose the junior high method of tattling to his classmates. (At more than one school, BTW.) Now he's upset because everyone didn't join his army to attack the playground bully. If not for the convenience of the internet, he probably would have lived out his bad day and forgotten it the next instead of going behind Walker's back to get even with him.
Walker may have been out of line, but I have no doubt that Zen-man is out of line with his response. I would have written a letter to Walker to tell him exactly what I thought of our conversation or maybe asked his wife if their dog died or something, but I wouldn't have ranted to a bunch of people who were not witness to the call or even interested in its making.
Before the internet, people would get mad at a business owner and say "I think I'll take out an ad in the paper and tell everyone about this guy!" Of course they never did. Now it is just too easy to fire up the computer and circulate any story you want without having to present any evidence. So if you choose to use this tactic, don't be surprised if your word isn't taken as gospel and you don't get the results you are hoping for.
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i think zen has said three times that this is his last say on the subject so is it??
i have bought from holeshot 3 times and they have always been very helpfull and even enthusiastic.
now zen i not saying that what happened to you didn't happen just stating my personal experience just like you are.
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From talking to him on the phone, I can tell that he is a very busy and aggressive person. Also from what I have been told, he trys to answer all questions by phone and email himself as much as possible. So between all that, r&d, etc., that probably makes him a busy person. I am sure that he gets lots of stupid questions, as well as legitimate questions as well. It is possible that you hit a sore spot, or he may be that way. I don't know him personally, so I can't say. I personally have received good info and service from him, so I don't have anything negative to say from my experiences with him.
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I am checking in again to see if Dale Walker has responded to my comment. Nothing yet.
It's funny, I started this because I had a negative experience with a company that a lot of motorcyclists deal with, and brought it to the attention of the board as a Customer Service complaint. I would certainly like to know of all feedback, good or bad, before deciding whether to deal with any company. The name of this forum is "Product Reviews" after all. Mr' Walker has every opportunity to respond in his defense or any way he sees fit.
I was careful not to attack Mr. Walker's integrity, honesty, or competence, and I was as direct and straight-forward as possible. At no time did I recommend against buying from Holeshot Performance, or pretend that I knew anything about the quality of his products. In fact I encouraged those that read my complaint to make up their own minds, and I even praised Mrs. Walker for her friendly attitude and excellent people skills.
Yet some here are now going so far as to question my character, accusing me of "going behind his back", and taking a "junior high method", being "out of line" and "ranting". My comment is even being described as a "tactic", an attempt to "get even".
These few have also made the false assumation that I'm "disappointed", "highly defensive", and "upset because everyone didn't join (my) army to attack the playground bully", among other things.
Good grief.
The only thing I'm truly disappointed in at this point is how some people can be so smug and judgemental about something they never witnessed or have no evidence of, against a person whom they don't even know. It's true that I have presented no evidence to support my comments, only my word. But at the same time, these individuals have no evidence at all of the incident, nor even any first-hand knowledge of it, yet they feel they can make the judgement that it was somehow my own fault for what occurred, that I brought this all down on myself because of my "approach" or my "attempting to match wits" with Mr. Walker.
All this without even a response from Dale Walker himself.
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether it is well-founded or not. I appreciate the response from those that have the objectivity to realize my intention here was to file a complaint, not to attack or demonize anyone, or to advise against doing any business with Holeshot Performance.
To those who choose to negatively judge my motives, criticize my character, or accuse me of unsavory behavior, may I remind you that your words are a reflection upon yourselves, and your reactions are evidence of your own character.
In case you don't realize it, I am not your enemy, and I suggest you take a step back and a moment to consider this before "commenting" on my personal integrity any further.
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After reading all of this I get the feeling that the core of the issue is that you wanted to complain to Dale via this forum. However, a forum is read by many, many,many more people than the one your complaining about.
My proposal is: complaints and you want a reaction from the person/shop you complain about ? Use 1 to 1 communication!
You want to give your opinion about a product/person or shop to the world? Use the forum!
Don't mix up these goals and approaches or else... the shops will run out of beer and chips.... :wink:
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I just thought of a way that you could get your point across to him and in a way that he would not be able to interupt you. Send him an email stating on how disapointed you were in the phone call. This would be a way that would give you the opportunity to voice your dilemna to him without interruption. I personally am curious on how he would respond.
dlwalker@holeshot.com
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I'm continually amazed at how people can read one thing and see another, as if no matter what is said, they will only see what they choose to see.
How somebody can get this:
"After reading all of this I get the feeling that the core of the issue is that you wanted to complain to Dale via this forum."
Out of this:
"I started this because I had a negative experience with a company that a lot of motorcyclists deal with, and brought it to the attention of the board as a Customer Service complaint."
is beyond me.
I don't know how much clearer I can possibly make it, but what's the use?
Now I've been given Dale's Email address and the suggestion made to complain to him directly, which I was perfectly capable of doing in the first place, had I so chosen.
Whatever. It's clear that I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, so I used the Email address to senf Mr. Walker a copy of my original post, and told him where to find it. So there, I hope you're satisfied, but somehow I doubt it that will ever be the case.
Let the syncophantic response found here serve as a warning to anybody thinking to have the sheer audacity to post anything the least bit negative about the great Dale Walker. Be prepared for a backlash of suspicions towards your motives and negative insinuations towards your morality.
It leads me to question the purpose of even having a "Product Review" forum, if only positve comments will be accepted. I doubt that any further valid ctiticisms or complaints regarding Holeshot Performance will dare be posted.
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So there, I hope you're satisfied, but somehow I doubt it that will ever be the case.
Not exactly sure on who you are trying to satisfy in this comment. I don't recall anyone here saying that you are totally wrong and Dale is a god. Also it helps to understand that sometimes misunderstandings happen when typing to people who don't know you personally. I personally was just trying to help you resolve your frustration in this matter.
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Solman, I was speaking more to those that have taken objection to my comments. Thanks for the address. Email sent.
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Paulvs, looks like you just jumped in front of the bus again. I have dealt with Dale, and spoke with Dale. He's a nice guy. Notice I said nice to me. Maybe he's not nice to everybody. I just know if Im in the business of dealing with the public in the hopes of selling and promoting my already great reputation, I would try to make sure things like this do not happen. Remember, most business owners agree to try to make a customer happy. By the way the term "amatuer" does imply not being paid. Lets see if you jump again :duh:
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It's spelled "amateur". :wink:
Dale does a great job of supplying Bandit 'goodies' that are difficult, if not impossible, to find elsewhere. At a fair market price.
And his customer service reputation is as good as any independent I'm aware of. In my 3 years of frequenting Bandit websites, this is the first negative experience I've heard of.
Maybe since you apparently have some hidden agenda or axe to grind here... you could prove otherwise.
So standing up for a small-business entrepreneur who almost without question does 'the right thing' for his customers is not a position that I have any insecurity defending... especially since most of the motorcycle aftermarket industry seems to only want to cater to 16 year-olds who want flashing LED's and a 92-tooth rear sprocket on their Gixxers.
And I never denied that Zen-Man perhaps did have a bad experience with Dale... I just stated that it would be an aberration and not a regular occurrence.
It was a moronic statement on your part. But then again, if one tried to educate all the morons on the planet...
:stickpoke:
I'll leave it at that.
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I'd like to thank you personally for correcting me on my spelling. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to thank you at the next rally if you can make it :lol:
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Just wanted to save this for the archives.... wouldn't want any "editing" again...
It's spelled "amateur". :wink:
It was a moronic statement on your part. But then again, if one tried to educate all the morons on the planet...
:stickpoke:
I'll leave it at that.
Calling people names is quite moronic in itself, wouldn't you say? :roll:
Come to think of it, I think I'll save this one too:So you are insulting me personally. Your statement "I like the guy" is a fluffy little piece of diversion that really just indicates that you've never really dealt with him personally.
And by the way... a hit-and-run smarmy comment like that... you wouldn't happen to be a liberal would ya? :wink:
Sorry, I was too late to save the part where you called Roamr a "piece of crap" before you edited it out. :wink:
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I'd like to thank you personally for correcting me on my spelling. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to thank you at the next rally if you can make it :lol:
I'd like to be there to see that, if you wouldn't mind... :motorsmile:
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Sorry you three, but I just thought of this. :banana:
(http://webpages.charter.net/kedeg/tg.jpg)
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LOL
Quaking....
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Sorry you three, but I just thought of this. :banana:
That's exactly what I was thinking, of PaulVS, that is... he's the only one throwing the insults around, which I doubt he would do if it was face-to-face.
Me? No "keyboard commando" here. Not once have I called anyone a name or threatened anyone anywhere on this BBS. :bigok:
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Sorry you three, but I just thought of this. :banana:
That's exactly what I was thinking, of PaulVS, that is... he's the only one throwing the insults around, which I doubt he would do if it was face-to-face.
Me? No "keyboard commando" here. Not once have I called anyone a name or threatened anyone anywhere on this BBS. :bigok:
Like 'amateur lawyers jumping in front of a bus' isn't an insult.
It was a moronic (and contradictory) statement.
"I like the guy" ??? Yeah... right.
So sorry ZenMan... that Big Bad Dale hurt your poor wittle feewings so much you felt you had to post it in two different places here. What a frail ego.
And regarding your comment about 'face-to-face'... I'm in Chicago... Really aren't any Bandit rallies around here, but if either one of you is passing through... feel free to let me know and I'll buy you a beer. :wink:
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Like 'amateur lawyers jumping in front of a bus' isn't an insult.
It was a moronic (and contradictory) statement.
"I like the guy" ??? Yeah... right.
Not only wouldn't I consider those insults, but I didn't say them. You are obviously confused.
"Amateur lawyers jumping in front of a bus" wasn't even specifically directed at you, and it takes a very thin-skinned, sensitive psyche to somehow take that as an insult. And how anybody can think "I like the guy" is an insult is quite beyond me. :roll:
So sorry ZenMan... that Big Bad Dale hurt your poor wittle feewings so much you felt you had to post it in two different places here. What a frail ego.
If that's an indication of a "frail ego", then you must have one made of eggshells, judging from all the insults and name-calling you've been doing all over this board. If there was anyone here that fits the description of an "internet tough guy", it is most definitely you.
May I suggest a good therapist? Oh, and make sure you tell them about your obsession with disproportionately large female mammary glands, I hear they can pinpoint a lot of insecurities from your particular affliction. :wink:
And regarding your comment about 'face-to-face'... I'm in Chicago... Really aren't any Bandit rallies around here, but if either one of you is passing through... feel free to let me know and I'll buy you a beer. :wink:
Now that's the spirit! Thank you for the invitation, I'll definitely take you up on it when I come up that way this summer! Just PM your address and I'll be there! :beers:
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Its the Holiday time of the year, Im sure that the winter weather and the Christmas time overload is enough to deal with, but lets not forget that we are all brothers.
Im sure and would bet on it, that if anyone here would ride up on each other and they were down at the road side you would stop and help.
Summer time will come again and everyone will feel better, so lets step back and let our ability for future vision to kick in, smile, forgive and forget. :wink:
PIN
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I agree with gearset. Thanksgiving is over. This turkeys been picked to the bone. Happy holidays :motorsmile:
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Agreed.
I've PM'd ZenMan. We can keep it there.
Same goes for roamr's beef if he likes.
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Since your taking requests as to where we want to "beef it out". I would request the next rally, I've made it to all of them, so its a safe bet I'll be there for the next one. Now I could be joking, but that would rest entirely with you. I never was much for bbs bitchin. Im actually kind of ashamed I let myself get wrapped up in it. :beers:
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Peace and harmony, it makes me feel warm all over....
Now where the hell did I set that last beer down at.
Ya know after 5 or 6 I just cant keep track anymore !!!
PIN
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Its the Holiday time of the year, Im sure that the winter weather and the Christmas time overload is enough to deal with, but lets not forget that we are all brothers.
Yeah, without the Christmas spirit, Santa won't get his sleigh into the air.
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Damn, and I thought WD40 was the superior lubricant it's all chocked up to be! :duh:
Here I was hoping for some definitive answer to which is best: Amsoil or Mobil1
Piss, moan, or groan all ya want; take it to a email and be done with it. Dale has no problem responding to them.
Couple of pointers: I know Dale personally, ridden with him, hung out at his shop, and shared tacos and beers, so I have a pretty good bead on how he comes across or thinks.
While I can't speak for him personally (nor would I try) his answers and/or remarks you've posted here would pretty much indicate he doesn't believe you and/or doesn't care for your opinion. The last time I looked, Dale doesn't have an account here and/or a forum that he frequents so expecting him to respond here is probably wasted energy.
Just like asses, noses, and opinions, everyone has one.
While I don't have to defend Dale, his business, or his products, at the same time I don't put a lot of weight in your opinion of him or his level of customer service :stickpoke:
Of course, if you really wanted some resolution to all this, you could always take this tread over to that other Suzuki site, where I'm pretty sure Dale will be more than happy to respond :bslap:
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Piss, moan, or groan all ya want; take it to a email and be done with it. Dale has no problem responding to them.
I did email him, no response.
While I can't speak for him personally (nor would I try)
Then what do you call this?:
his answers and/or remarks you've posted here would pretty much indicate he doesn't believe you and/or doesn't care for your opinion.
As I've stated, I never had a chance to state my "opinion". Besides, if I had, even if he didn't "believe me", responding with "full of crap" isn't very nice, is it?
Just like asses, noses, and opinions, everyone has one.
Including you.
While I don't have to defend Dale
You just did.
Of course, if you really wanted some resolution to all this, you could always take this tread over to that other Suzuki site
No thanks, I've been flamed enough for daring to post something negative about him here. And I've emailed him directly.
There won't be any "resolution" to this, I only wanted to post a complaint for others to take as they wished. This is the "Product Review" forum after all. Unfortunately, some here have taken offense personally. I guess I should have known better.
All Hail King Dale!!!!! Speak no ill of the King!!!! He is Perfection Incarnate and can do No Wrong!!!! :duh:
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Remider: The name of this category is:
PRODUCT REVIEWS
Post your impressions of specific products you own!
That said, sorry to hear of your unpleasant experience with Dale.
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Remider: The name of this category is:
PRODUCT REVIEWS
Post your impressions of specific products you own!
That said, sorry to hear of your unpleasant experience with Dale.
There's another thread in here titled "Ron Ayers is Super Slow". Is that not a customer Service complaint?
Apparently Mr. Ayers doesn't have as many "fans" as Mr. Walker.
Where is the appropriate forum to post a Customer Service complaint if not here?
Not that anyone in their right mind should do such a thing... :roll:
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Yes, it is a customer service related topic... and the original poster bought something and was complaining about how long it was taking to receive the order. Not really a product review, but useful for someone looking for info about buying from Ron Ayers.
This thread, OTOH, is not about a purchase, just about how the two of you didn't get along. It probably would have been best put in the General section, but it's not totally off topic here either, which is why I didn't move it.
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I just read 4 pages of this and am walking away empty handed :scaredmouse:
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I've been a Holeshot customer for 6 years and have spoken to him many times on the telephone. Its always been a pleasure too. Dale knows more about bandits than anyone on the planet.
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I just read 4 pages of this and am walking away empty handed :scaredmouse:
Could I interest you in some empty Amsoil containers? :monkeymoon:
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I just read 4 pages of this and am walking away empty handed :scaredmouse:
Could I interest you in some empty Amsoil containers? :monkeymoon:
:thanks: :banana: now I have something to show for my time :banana: :banana:
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Wow, 4 pages on this poster's simple venting of a complaint! :shock:
I have a Dale Walker system on my bike. Came with it when I bought it. Seems OK. Sounds nice, to me. I have nothing to compare it to since it's the only custom exhaust I've ever owned and nobody I know has the same bike with an alternate system for me to do a comparison with.
Lots of salesmen/business owners don't have any understanding of customer service and how a person should be spoken to.
If this had happened to me, I'd certainly be off of Holeshot products for the rest of my life. There's too many other systems to choose from.
Sorry 'bout the bad experience. I'd say, though, that you can have a good experience with at least a dozen other sellers with no effort. Pick one and tell us how it goes! I might need another can someday.
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Wow, 4 pages on this poster's simple venting of a complaint! :shock:
I have a Dale Walker system on my bike. Came with it when I bought it. Seems OK. Sounds nice, to me. I have nothing to compare it to since it's the only custom exhaust I've ever owned and nobody I know has the same bike with an alternate system for me to do a comparison with.
Lots of salesmen/business owners don't have any understanding of customer service and how a person should be spoken to.
If this had happened to me, I'd certainly be off of Holeshot products for the rest of my life. There's too many other systems to choose from.
Sorry 'bout the bad experience. I'd say, though, that you can have a good experience with at least a dozen other sellers with no effort. Pick one and tell us how it goes! I might need another can someday.
Yeah, FUBAR, huh?
Anyway, I never said that Holeshot doesn't make a decent product. I was trying to buy one of their slip-ons but never had the chance to get that across on the phone. Oh well.
You're right, there'e plenty of other sources, and I may just end up fabricating something around one of those tunable Super-Trapps with the internal baffle discs, until I can get some good numbers out of it, and then go for a Yosh or something. We shall see! :wink:
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When I called Ivan to inquire about his Jet kit he was very accommodating and returned my calls on my question of stock pipe modification and tried to get me to buy his Yoshimura pipes in stock. I took it all in along with the product research and an intelligent informed purchase decision based on what I needed for the best price I could find. Being the best overall plug and play product I purchased Ivan’s kit which included the air box mod. I purchased the Yoshimura pipe from a another Vendor saving $100 over Ivan‘s stock.
In the middle of install I had some questions but Ivan never returned my calls, probably because they were pretty basic like "if I drill the air box holes here instead of here will it be critical". My point is Ivan is a vendor that sells a good product and has to make choices to best serve the success of his business which may mean blowing off silly questions that customers should be able to figure out, and I did. In life you have to chose your battles and decide if its real or not before torching that bridge. If Ivan had sent me bent needle jets or missing parts I would have crossed that bridge to take issue with him. But I’m not going to bad mouth and torch the guys reputation just because he wont talk with me over simple questions I should be able to figure out. Both of these guys have a reputation of selling effective products to experienced installers or hobbyist, not teach the basics of carb theory 101 over the phone.
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Look, this is the last time I'm gonna explain this: I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS, STUPID OR NOT, OVER THE PHONE BECAUSE I WAS INTERRUPTED AT EVERY TURN.
What is it about that you don't understand? You weren't there, you don't know how it went down, the only thing you have to go by is what I wrote in my original post. READ IT.
Now you can believe that or not, you can even call me a liar if you want, but if you think you can criticize me for a conversation that you never heard, then you must think you're freakin' psychic.
You don't like what I posted, then IGNORE IT. This is ridiculous. What's the matter with some of you people? You love Dale Walker so much that you can't tolerate the slightest criticism of him? Maybe you oughta go marry the guy, huh?
Jeezus Cripes!
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The subject of this post aside, you really make me laugh and my eye's water. I don’t know what you look like but from what I have gathered so far you would be great in TV sitcom character role.
:lol:
Look, this is the last time I'm gonna explain this: I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS, STUPID OR NOT, OVER THE PHONE BECAUSE I WAS INTERRUPTED AT EVERY TURN.
What is it about that you don't understand? You weren't there, you don't know how it went down, the only thing you have to go by is what I wrote in my original post. READ IT.
Now you can believe that or not, you can even call me a liar if you want, but if you think you can criticize me for a conversation that you never heard, then you must think you're freakin' psychic.
You don't like what I posted, then IGNORE IT. This is ridiculous. What's the matter with some of you people? You love Dale Walker so much that you can't tolerate the slightest criticism of him? Maybe you oughta go marry the guy, huh?
Jeezus Cripes!
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I think this has gone further than it ever needed to, so I'm locking this topic.
Move along, there's nothing more to see here.
If anyone has a new negative experience, post it in a new thread.