Author Topic: DIY CDI Repair  (Read 22339 times)

Offline PitterB4

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DIY CDI Repair
« on: March 16, 2005, 08:43:12 AM »
Another resurected post from the new board, pre-crash  It is pasted here one page of the orig thread per post.

badidou
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:58 am    Post subject: Capacitors    

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Tough, tough... :banghead:

I am having hard time to find these capacitors for my bike online.

Cap-se 1050 10UF/50V heat reated - 150Dc

Cap-se 47-35 47UF/35V heat reated - 85Dc

Help guys, you already did a great job on the CDI module with the german website.

Damn this bike is giving me hard time. Guess what? it's raining big time here in TX and still did not get my motorcycle cover should come sometime this week with Fedex.



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stevek44
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:32 pm    Post subject:      

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Hey Badidou, try these:



http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=13701&Row=104748&Site=US



http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=14123&Row=104386&Site=US



I think Digikey has a minimum order, so you may have to buy yourself a soldering iron or something else to flesh it out.



Please double check the specs on these before you order them, in case I screwed up.



Also, please don't take this the wrong way, since I don't know your level of electronics expertise, but you need to be aware that there is a negative and positive lead on these. On the side of the can will be a stripe, or row of 'negative' signs by the negative lead. Make sure you install the replacement capacitors in the same orientation as the old ones, or else you will get to find out what capacitors are made of !



Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.



Steve
 
 
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject:      

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Man id really like someone else to show pictures of and explane how this CDI fix is going on . More or less I need a CDI fix for DUMMIES.

thanks

jay
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PitterB4
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject:      

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Here's a pic, Jay.



Seems like you just replace the capacitors in the pic.



Here's the Bable Fish translation of that German site. A little rough but...



Quote:
If you developed the CDI then (that is this small black crate) then must you to the interior life come somehow. I cut in addition simply the housing open with a Dremel (with the second CDI those their way into my hands found, with my own went the housing totally to break). The picture down shows the housing and the plate. I would like to thank here again Christoph that he put his defective CDI to me at the disposal, that am in the picture.



To explain I cannot do me that. Perhaps it is not noticeable to you also, it is the four condensers, which, which must be also exchanged. It makiert times with circles. It is to be seen, which on the upper plate the condenser from the row dances. Jendenfalls are that the construction units to be exchanged must. Probably only the plate must become "cleaned" with you, how it was also with me the case. Is a kind adhesive on all construction units and solder joints. That serves usually to protect the plate against humidity in our case makes it the plate with security also somewhat vibration.




Ok, it's REALLY rough but you replace the little round thingies! :moon:
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:13 pm    Post subject:      

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so thats what breaks down. And u would replace them all? what do you use to get the coating off? what kind or gauge of soldier do you use?

Some one should do it and re write it with out the jibber jabber. why is it the capicitors that go bad .





On another note. The new key switches have a diode in them , anyone know about that one . I need to find it ,or the diode size to buy so i can run the 600 without the key switch , and just use the on /off button.

They started doing this a couple of years ago to prevent bike theft, if ya cut the wires the voltage drops tolike .5 volts or something?
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:23 pm    Post subject:      

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I guess there are NO electrical genius's here? :annoy:
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject:      

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And where do you get those little parts at? the link was dead.
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Gunter
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:03 pm    Post subject:      

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Hey guys,

Hope this is Dumb enough...  



First, the not-at-all legal disclaimers:



1. This repair may or may not fix your broken black box, especially ones that were fried as a result of jump starting or other catastrophic event.



2. This repair could, if done wrong, cause even more damage to the unit.



3. If you try this and F it up, please don't blame me, I'm just tryin' to help out my fellow $ strapped brethren with some free tips. :msm:



First, if anyone is using the pics/translations from the German website, note that it is NOT necessary to use the "Bavarian Dremel Method" to cut the crap out of the black box housing to get it apart. The connectors for the wiring harnesses are soldered to the board and the whole thing slid out after some careful semi-aggressive prying on my part. It turns out the kind folks at Suzuki decided to use some rubber cement-like glue to stick the board in the housing. There is a channel that runs the inside length of the case that the edge of the circuit board rides in, dig?



I am having hard time to find these capacitors for my bike online.



Try your local Radio Shack, that's where I found mine. They should have parts drawers with electronic components (resistors, capacitors, etc.) They may not look exactly the same as the ones you are replacing though. Just match the voltage and capacitance values. They had a larger version of the 47uF 35V with radial leads (both coming out the same end). They only had the 50V 10uF cap but in an axial leaded (wires coming out of both ends), non-polarized (no positive/negative side) configuraton. I consulted with a relative in the electronics manufacturing biz, and in this application these will work fine. They are also larger and longer than the stock 50V caps, so I needed to get a little creative in mounting them. They basically are mounted with the long side towards the unit, with the leads bent to reach the holes in the board. If you go this route, be careful that the leads are not touching each other or any other components nearby.



And u would replace them all?



As long as you are there, might as well. They are cheap parts.



what do you use to get the coating off?



The "coating" is a rubber cement type goo. I used a tweezers, xacto knife etc. to cut/ pull the goo off the capacitors and circuit board.



After the goo removal, I used copper solder braid to get the solder out of the old joints and pulled the old caps out of the board. Be sure to make a note of installed polarity of the old caps before you pull them out. I think the board is printed with a - sign, but you may want to double check that.



what kind or gauge of soldier do you use?



Standard electronics type .062 rosin core works fine. No offense meant to gsxr400 or anyone else, but if you've never done this type of repair before, you may want to get someone with some experience to do the actual soldering for you. Electronic components can be fragile things and one of their prime enemies is HEAT. There is an element of touch involved in heating up the joint enough to get the solder to melt without frying the caps or worse, the big IC chip (brains) next to them. You also need to do the heating part twice for each mounting point (once to remove the old cap and once to install the new one.) I have a fair amount of soldering experience, and I still managed to lift one of the trace pads off the board (too much heat), requiring more work to fix.



To repeat Steves warning, be sure you are installing any polarized caps in the correct orientation!





Sorry for the lack of pics, I have some digital photos, but no way of getting them on here. I will try to write up a step by step procedure for this fix sometime soon, but I'm knee deep in lookin for a job right now.



Later,



Garrett
 
 
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:58 pm    Post subject:      

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:clap: :clap: :clap: Thats what I was looking for . Ive soldered before but not on stuff that small. Thanks alot!!! If i wouldve had something like this before I might not have threw away my gsxr 400 box :wtf: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Some one stick this one in the Q &A section. ROB and i heard something about pics too!!! much appriciated :beers:
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badidou
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 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:06 am    Post subject:      

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Thanks man for the detailed explanation, :thanks:

ya the link was dead, however i had to order them online through:

http://www.digikey.com/

part# ECA-1HHG100 Cap-se 1050 10UF/50V heat rated - 105Dc

part# ECA-1VM470 Cap-se 47-35 47UF/35V heat rated - 85Dc

i paid $15 including handling and shipping, the capacitors cost was $2 i think, i ordered 2 of each.

Anyway! i took the byke this morning on the highway , and guess what? died on me, i think i pushed it to much :boiling: since the engine was working only with 2 cyl (capacitors issue), the byke wont start anymore.

fff day, called verizon since i have the towing thing included in my contract, found out that they towe only 4 wheels and not commercial vehicles.

Argued for 30 min and got 2 months for free :beers:

Had to call my friend to tow my byke with his Suzuki g 1000/ 1982, it was fun
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Offline PitterB4

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DIY CDI Repair
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2005, 08:48:05 AM »
Boom-Boom
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 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:17 am    Post subject:      

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I decided to try this mod. My bike was tempermental about starting. Sometimes it would take 5 sec of cranking to start and sometimes it would only start after trying 3-4 times over 20 mins. So after reading this post I decided to try and fix my CDI and eliminate that as a problem.



I used my dremel to cut around the edge of the CDI where the top and bottom cover are joined. Click thumbnail to view.

 



The circuit board is glued into a slot in one side of the cover, but you can muscle it out it you're careful. Then I spent about 30 min w/ tweezers and exacto knife pulling all the rubber cement off. Here's how it looks w/o the rubber cement.

 



At this point is is a good idea to take a picture of the 4 caps and note how they are oriented. Here's a pic after I removed the original caps. Notice that the positive leads are marked on the board and should be pointing to one another.

 



I found the right sized caps at a local electronics store w/ radial leads. I bought them at Altex, which also has a store in Austin (for you babidou). Total cost for all 4 caps was $0.73.



I've built several circuit boards in my line of work so the capacitor replacement was a piece of cake for me. Took me about 10 mins, but I have a nice solder station and desoldering vacuum. Again, make sure you have the polarities correct. Here's a pic w/ the new caps.

 



I placed the board back in its slot and then taped the 2 covers back together w/ electrical tape. One thing I might do would be to put hot glue on the caps to protect them from vibration. I'm thinking that's what the rubber cement was doing. Here's the finished product once it's taped back together.

 



Well the great news is that when I put the CDI back in, my bike started w/ one short push of the starter. I couldn't believe it so I turned it off and hit the starter again. Vrooom... This bike has never started that easy. I've always had to hold the starter down a few secs to start it. I'm so excited that I had to sit down and write this long post.



Total time to do the mod was 1.5 hrs and total cost was less than a dollar and the results are well worth it. We'll see if it continues to start right up over the next few days.
 
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stevek44
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 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject:      

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Hey Boom-boom, Nice Post!!



I don't know what happened to the capacitor link I posted earlier, it worked for me when I posted it. (Doh!) For anyone who cares, if you go to digikey.com and enter electrolytic capacitor in the search field it will come up with a selection tool and you can find what you need.



A couple of comments in general about this repair, first, Badidou said that his caps were high temperature types. I have never checked if the ECU runs hot at all, but if it does, using regular caps MAY limit the lifetime of the repair. (ie. the caps might fail again prematurely) Did you guys who did the repair use high temp caps? Secondly, I would suggest that you seal up the case real good with some silicone sealant or something similar. Even a little bit of water inside will wreak havoc with your board, especially your nice new unsealed repair job.
 
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Boom-Boom
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 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject:      

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Well they didn't have enough of the high temp caps at Altex so I just used normal temp for all 4. The original caps were rated at 85dC and 105 dC. I agree that the high temp caps would give longer service life, but I wanted to at least try the mod to see if it made any difference w/ the bike's starting issues. I just tried to fire her up again this morning and she started up w/ no choke and just 2 twists of the throttle before hitting the starter. I've always had to use choke to start this bike when cold so I'm still convinced that this mod has had a positive affect on my bike. I will try and take her out for a ride today.



I'll probably end up using your suggestions to use high temp caps and silicone sealant, but for now I just want to get out and ride.
 
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PitterB4
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 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject:      

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Great post, B-B. Thanks. I'll move this over to the FAQs soon (as soon as everyone's done with any questions).
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badidou
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 Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:56 pm    Post subject:      

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I just instaleled the new capacitors ( heat rated) the byke did not want to start, then went through the whole thing again and made sure to clean all the circuit (igniter). Finally it worked, this byke is so fast it's crazy, i really noticed the difference as soon as turned the engine on (HIGH rpm). as a reminder i was only using two cyl before o change the capacitors.

Cross my fingers.
 
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Boom-Boom
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 Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:28 pm    Post subject:      

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Don't use silicon sealant to close up your CDI. Something was bothering me about using silicon sealant w/ electronics and then I remembered that a lot of silicone sealants release acetic acid while it cures. Not good for your CDI.



I think I'm gonna stick w/ the electrical tape and just make sure it seals it up tight. I think it looks better, too.
 
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datsunking
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 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:35 am    Post subject:      

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Oh man my bandit's CDI just broke down the other day... Used my friend's CDI and test on my bike... No problem... When i use back my old CDI, have to start a few times... So went to change the capacitors... Bought it at $0.80(singapore) for 4 capacitors... Went to find a person to solder for me and he charge me $10 but i gave him $20 cos he says hard to solder... Then after fixing it still have difficulty starting... but after starting and took it for a spin now it's running good... Maybe have to charge up the capacitor... Hope the CDI dun go hay-wire again....
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badidou
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 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:58 am    Post subject:      

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:wtf: still the same problem, wont start. My has bark been sitting for a couple days at wor, i cannot have it start. this is getting very frustrating. i really don't want to spend $500 on a new igniter, nor send it to holland to have it fixed.
 
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datsunking
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 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:37 am    Post subject:      

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badidou wrote:
:wtf: still the same problem, wont start. My has bark been sitting for a couple days at wor, i cannot have it start. this is getting very frustrating. i really don't want to spend $500 on a new igniter, nor send it to holland to have it fixed.




Maybe u solder it wrongly... Cos when i let the eletronics guy to solder, he kept complaining it's quite hard to solder cos some part have to link both side... Not sure which part he talking about...
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gsxr400 racer
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 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject:      

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My next guestion for the electrical tech's where would you find the rev limiter part of this CDI box? And how would you modify it or get rid of it ? Im sure it works on some sort of resistance or a switch of some sort?
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Offline PitterB4

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DIY CDI Repair
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2005, 08:49:59 AM »
badidou
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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:01 am    Post subject:      

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:duh: I am just tired of how to fix this box, to hell ........

I just found a used one from UK, will see :drool:
 
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badidou
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 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:25 am    Post subject:      

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badidou wrote:
:duh: I am just tired of how to fix this box, to hell ........

I just found a used one from UK, will see :drool:
:boohoo:
 
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Rbandit
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 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:24 pm    Post subject:      

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I got a faulty spare CDI which I tried to repair. The capactior orientation on my board is different from you guys. I replace 5 capacitors on the board, one more extra cap beside the IC chip. Will be getting a new casing from a elctronic shop because I'm worried rain water may find its way with the old casing which I cut open with dremel.



Rob
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