Bandit Alley
FAQ TOPICS => SUZUKI BANDIT 250/400 FAQ => Topic started by: jodyvan on August 16, 2007, 01:43:00 PM
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Hey guys.
Well after my little wipe out and getting the parts from gsxr400 racer on the way here I ran across a problem. Just before I crashed I had changed the oil (which ended up pouring out on the road:D) I was taking the busted up pieces of the bike the other day and cleaning up all the oil from the change and notice the oil smelled like gasoline. A post by GK75A that I had read previous led me to suspect "leaking fuel tap, carb o-rings or worn valves"
After a few emails exchanged with gsxr400 racer and pestering him relentlessly I was hoping to solicit some help from the other banditos.
I have chosen to undertake the endeavor of removing my carbs and puttinng in a carb kit as Jay suggests. I haven't worked on anything mechanical in my life. I have the manual for the bandit but not the VV model yet. (something else Jay is kindly working on)
Some questions I have before I proceed which are no doubt super stupid but bare with me.
1) How do I diagnose a "knackered" fuel tap?
2) Do I have to drain the fuel tank to take it off and what the easiest and cleanest way do do it and how do I store the fuel if so?
3) Do I need to take the whole carb assembly out to accomplish what I need?
4) The manual mentions inspecting the carious jets. Inspect for what?
5)What's the diaphragm do?
6) Anything else I might need to know.
Sorry for being way over the top about this but best do it right the first time I say and learn from experience as they say.
Thanks in advance for the help. Cheers! :motorsmile:
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1) With the engine off, and the tap (aka petcock) in either Reserve or On position, unplug the fuel hose and see if fuel comes out. If it does, you're tap is knackered.
2) If the tap is OK you don't HAVE to drain the tank. It's easier to handle the less fuel is left in it since it's lighter. If the tap is leaking, drain the tank into a suitable container, like a gas can. Draining via the hose will take a long time, but is the cleanest/easiest way. Next would be to syphon followed by petcock removal with a big funnel (possibly with a large diameter hose) or a bucket and try to catch it all as it come gushing out when the petcock startes getting loose and comes out.
3) Yes.
4) Wear & tear and contamination.
5) The ones in the carbs lift the slides according to throttle position and the engine's ability to accomodate the request. The one in the petcock opens it as soon as there's a vacuum source from the engine and shuts it off when the engine dies. If your petcock leaks in the Res or On positions, the petcock diaphragm is shot.
6) Brush up on your sailor's vocabulary. :wink:
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Have you read this stuff?
http://forums.banditalley.net/viewforum.php?f=59
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Working my way through it. They frown upon lengthy sessions of reading here at work and I don't have internet at home yet. I'll get what I can from there and ask what I can't figure out. :)
Guess it was a stupid post my bad.
:duh:
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no post is stupid in my book :motorsmile:
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got the carbs out how you coming?
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Carbs assembly is all out and just cleaned the bodies of them. I took one apart fully to see how dirty it was but stopped at one so I knew I'd get it all back together. I'll wait until my carb kit comes and hope I do't have to fully disassemble it all.
With no internet at home I'm a little far from help and Monday is a long ways away for internet help with parts lying everywhere. :D
So far so good though I think. Hopefully the kit will fix my problem.
Thanks for the help Jay as always!
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Carbs assembly is all out and just cleaned the bodies of them. I took one apart fully to see how dirty it was but stopped at one so I knew I'd get it all back together. I'll wait until my carb kit comes and hope I don't have to fully disassemble it all.
With no internet at home I'm a little far from help and Monday is a long ways away for internet help with parts lying everywhere. :D
So far so good though I think. Hopefully the kit will fix my problem.
Thanks for the help Jay as always!
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repost but stop right there casue im getting this gut wrenching feeling with out seeing them tat you have take the carb off the rack when you do carb cleans on motorcycles it is verey rare to have to take them off the bank of 4 when they say carb clean they mean just pull the tops and bottoms off just so you know know the only time you have to take the bank apart is when you have a fuel pipe leaking that joins the two or bank or 4 together
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Carb put back on the bank ok. All back together now. Pain in the ...um.... @55 to get it back together though when you don't know what you are doing. I made out like a Bandit though. (Pun intended)
I sent you the pictures so maybe you can lemme know what's next.
Cheers
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looking now :grin:
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once you have all these out
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9904/dsc01135gd4.jpg)
Your collection from the top should be 4 tops 4 diaphragms 4 needles and 4 orings that go to the carb tops.
once thats done the top of the carbs should look like this
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2246/7673carbs008nz0.jpg)
Then you will take all these off the float bowls
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9004/dsc01138nc0.jpg)
And you will be looking at this. the float assemblies which they are what has the culprit o-rings 1 small and 1 larger and holds the float needles and how you adjust your float height. They just wiggle and pull out just held in by a bit of pressure.
(http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1195/7673carbs007la6.jpg)
this is what they look like when they are all out.
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6645/7673carbs012ou3.jpg)
next you will take the main jets out. the big brass slotted screw type thing has a number on it. this is your main jet size.should be beside a black rubber plug that plugs up the pilot jet hole , down in the hole wit a fine flat blade screw driver you will be able to unloosen the pilot jet , lefty loosy, push hard when turning for stuck ones some tend to be tight and stuck and may round off. so go at it with your man pants on.
If you don't have the plugs which most b4's do you need to get them or refer to a manual specifically of your bike and check your numbers on the carbs as all i know is that the gsxr 400 doesn't have them but the bandit does. The bandit feeds the slow jet/pilot circuit from the main jet via a passage near the needle jet/emulsion tube area. where as the gsxr 400 gk73a get its fuel separately through its own circuit? Is one better than the other? Your guess is as good as mine but i prefer less parts to go bad hence the gsxr carbs would be my choice if going all stock.
Now back to the tops of the carbs once you have all that out!! :clap: You will need to take these parts out they just push out and there is some important orings under there. You may have to push the emulsion tube out from where you just took the main jet out off i use the back side f a drill bit that fit nice in the whole so i don't mess the threads of the emulsion tube up. (screw up I once used a Phillips left real nice marks in the emulsion tube had to replace that)
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8753/7673carbs020fu8.jpg)
the pilot jets look like this
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5775/7673carbs021is5.jpg)
these are the buggers that clog up with sediment from the tank and cause bad idling a dropped cylinder always go to them first for problems if in the carb. OK back to the emulsion tubes they just need dipped in a gallon pal of carb dip from the auto parts store along with the pilot jets and mains then hosed hosed of with aerosol carb cleaner to make sure you see carb cleaner squirt out of all the orifices of the carbs and jets and sprays the out side of the carbs off as well i usually use 2 cans per carb bank ( set of 4)
On the bottom of the carbs where the float chamber is at there will be your fuel screws some have a little plug over then look like a freeze plug drill through them lightly (if not sure where they are ask some who know before drilling away) With in that orifice you will find these
(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3655/7673carbs003ey7.jpg)
When you put them back in the load the screw up spring first little metal washer then the o-ring and set to what the manual says most all carbs are any where from 1 1/2 to 2 1/2. screw them in lightly as this is a metering devise and the hole would not be hogged out by you turning like hulk-a-mania is running wild. Also same with drilling your not going through brick or seven layers of plywood so easy cause if you push to far you will screw the screw in real tight with the drill :duh:
:congrats: you have made it this far one other thing you should check is this little pipe it has a tendency to break as well
(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9548/7673carbs025sz6.jpg)
this is what you should be getting so you don't have to worry about your carbs
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/770/bandit400dn2.jpg)
And new rubber plugs if you need then the good thing is gs550's and a ton of older gsxr's used the same stuff in there carbs.
I like to used seal grease silicone based stuff for applying my orings so they slide on and into place real easy the stuff is better known as die-electric grease or plug wire boot grease. sorta clear-ish white.
Hope this helps some out As many of us have answered the same questions for years and there is some good info on here and maybe i still didn't cover it all but together maybe it all makes perfect sense.
cheers
Jay
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:shock:
That's a bloody HUGE baby step.
:shock:
Well once the kits get here it's go time...... Now where did I leave those man pants......
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the pic of your slide look like it is worn its shiny and should be all black can you look at it and tell if im seeing things i would have a look at you needle in the diaphragms and see if they are worn and factory pro will be able to help with that
these are the needles im talking about .
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3390/7673carbs010dc4.jpg)
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A) Your pictures are kinda blurry to make out.
B) Is the slide the part that the diaphragm moves up and down? The pin you are talking about is the pin in the middle of that part? What's factory pro?
Not sure if it is shiny or not. I'll have to take them all apart again to check. Probably best to get them all apart and take photos and send them to you.
I'll see if I can get that done tonight. What's it mean if the thing is shiny?
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Oh man.....I dont think I'll ever attempt to do a carb clean! :shock: I somehow managed to do a valve clearance check...which seems to be a piece of cake compared to this!
Sucks...because I know my bike needs a carb clean! :duh:
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Actually with the info that Jay has provided it's not that hard. I thought it'd be way bigger job then it is. When my kits get here it shouldn't be so bad really.
Just follow the steps, take pictures where necessary (I took lots just to be sure even if I don't use them I have them) and get the parts back where they came from.
With the help I've gotten so far it's no worries!
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good thats what i like to hear dont forget to use lube lol
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You bet... lots of white lube that you mentioned... does it have to be that lube? When I did my oil change I picked up some lube the guy at the shop gave me which is some general purpose lube I guess with the Castrol logo on it. (Shows you what a mechanic I am...Booya)
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So I am pretty sure I have everything in my head until the emulsion tube part and drilling. Also I've included some photos to maybe clarify the main jet part for me. My main jet is the large Brass screw in the middle of the float assembly is that correct?
The Emulsion tube is the Beige thing wedged down in the top?
(http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/9111/dsc01132sq4.th.jpg) (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01132sq4.jpg)
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6230/dsc01133db9.th.jpg) (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01133db9.jpg)
(http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4488/dsc01136er2.th.jpg) (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01136er2.jpg)
(http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/3962/dsc01137wz9.th.jpg) (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01137wz9.jpg)
EDIT: Ok I think I got the most of it down pat in analyzing my own pictures to find what I'm looking for. What is it I'm looking for on the slides though with them being shiny? I need to replace them or should I try cleaning them with carb cleaner?
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how you are going to put that back together i don't know you should not have taken the carb off the bank of four they stay all hooked together the only things you take off are the float bowls , jets , carb tops and carb slides or diaphragms.
In the third pic you can see at the bottom of the pic in the middle is where the fuel screw is at some times this is factory plugged cause they don't want the customer messing with it. But to do a proper clean the mechanic is to drill this plug out and replace it when done none replace them so most are open like yours just unscrew the fuel screw and there is a screw a spring a washer and a oring in there.
3rd and 4th pick wiggle the orange looking think out pull straight up and wiggle easy.
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The carb is back on the bank. Those are photos from when I took it apart to show you how dirty it was. After you so delicately told me to get it back on the bank it has been replaced. :duh: Told you I was a newb in the mechanics dept.
I haven't started to take them all apart yet because I want to wait until the kits are here so I can take them apart then put it back together right away.
I understand the big brass screw is the main jet with the number on it (which should have a plug over it but it doesn't correct?) and just below and to the right (in the pic) is the pilot jet under the black plug yes?
Is the beige thing the emulsion tube that I pull out from the top? Can I see on those photos where to stick the end of a drill bit to get it out?
I understand all the way up to getting the float assembly out and the main jet out. I am pretty sure i can get the pilot jets out too.
From there on is a little fuzzy. Just need to read it and get into it to understand what I'm looking at I think.
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The carb is back on the bank. Those are photos from when I took it apart to show you how dirty it was. After you so delicately told me to get it back on the bank it has been replaced. :duh: Told you I was a newb in the mechanics dept. COOL
I haven't started to take them all apart yet because I want to wait until the kits are here so I can take them apart then put it back together right away. IC
I understand the big brass screw is the main jet with the number on it (which should have a plug over it but it doesn't correct?) NO Just the pilot has the plug over it and just below and to the right (in the pic) is the pilot jet under the black plug yes?Once you pull the float assembly off you will see the plug and under the lug is the pilotIs the beige thing the emulsion tube that I pull out from the top?Thats the slide holder and also holds the brass emulsion tube Can I see on those photos where to stick the end of a drill bit to get it out? After you take the main jet out stick it right where the main jet wasand push towards the beige
I understand all the way up to getting the float assembly out and the main jet out. I am pretty sure i can get the pilot jets out too.
From there on is a little fuzzy. Just need to read it and get into it to understand what I'm looking at I think.
Cheers Jay
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OHhhhhh..... Ok the tapered brass tube on the slide is the emulsion tube..... :duh:
:bigok:
It's all coming together now... Once the kits are here and my man pants are back from the cleaners I'll be ready to rip. Lets hope I don't forget everything by then... :lol:
Cheers Jay thanks for the help one more time.
:motorsmile:
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(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6230/dsc01133db9.th.jpg) (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01133db9.jpg)
its down in there
but you push it out from the other end where you took the main jet off
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I take it it didnt show up before the weekend
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Oh man... The carb kits were shipped out on Aug 22nd. All tracking information from USPS say only that they were dropped off in Smyrna Beach FL. Nothing since. I have contacted both USPS and Canada Post and no one knows where they are.
The parts you shipped cleared customs yesterday so I should see them today or tomorrow sometime I'd imagine which sounds about right.
No idea what I'll do about the carb kits though.... The saga continues.
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Well wouldn't you know it the carb kits showed up this morning. Going to make the attempt tonight to rip them apart. I'm sure I'll be posting or email you about something Jay. I have all the info I can printed out so here goes!!!
Won't be able to start the bike till the cover gets here anyways so I have a day or two. :D
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Good luck bro and a big friggin cheers to Jay. Hall of fame posting going on in this thread by the big (little!) guy. :clap:
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Agreed Pitter agreed ..... Cheers Jay. Can't tell you how grateful I am for the help.:clap::bigok::clap:
Thanks for the luck We'll see how she goes........