Bandit Alley

MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: Wudy on February 12, 2010, 06:53:48 PM

Title: (Stripping the Engine...) VVC Valve Clearance Adjustment
Post by: Wudy on February 12, 2010, 06:53:48 PM
Hey guys, in need of a little help...

First of all, my question(s):

1. How do you get the throttle cable out of the carbs?

2. How does the lead wire come off of the starter motor? Does it just pull straight off? (Didn't seem to want to move and don't want to break it)


Now, how I got to this point...

On my way home from work wayyy back on the 4th Jan, my bike suddenly make a horrible noise from the cam cover. After waiting over 3 hours in -6DegC I finally got it picked up and taking home. Later that week I got it delivered to my local mechanic (as I didn't have the time and just wanted it fixed) who took the cam cover off to reveal that my exhaust cam had jumped two teeth on the sprocket, and at one part of the cycle the cam chain suddenly goes slack between the two cams.
Presuming the cam chain tensioner has gone he said he could replace it and hope all is well but with the cam jumping two teeth like that he thinks the valves could've hit the pistons so it would be worth stripping the engine and checking if it has or not.
So I got it delivered back home and I've just started stripping her down today.
I've got the tank, air-box, rad, front sprocket and exhaust off. Just got the throttle cable, choke cable (which I've had off before), starter motor wires, and a few other little wires (neutral indicator etc) to take off then the engine's ready to come out.

Hopefully I can actually enjoy this summer with the bike working! Spent last summer in the the garage due to a relay that only exists on the VVC bikes so there was no mention of it anywhere! That was stressful...

Cheers  :thumb:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: tomacGTi on February 12, 2010, 07:01:51 PM
Why not try to retime the motor first and try to fire it or run a compression test?

Of course, put a chain tensioner on there first but these are cheaper and easier than assuming things are f'd and tearing a motor apart.

Throttle cable: loosen completely at the grip and you'll see how to manipulate the cam to slide the lead end out.

Lead wire: pretty sure its bolted into place under a cover.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Chris H on February 12, 2010, 07:34:26 PM
DONT throw away the cam cover gasket as they are VVC only!!!!
tomacGTi is correct in thinking its worth a compression test and a good inspection. Take the plugs out and shine a good torch down, see if you can see damage. Get a APE gsxr srad manual cam chain tensioner and it will never happen again.
Ive a VVC head in peices if you need some spares. :duh:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Wudy on February 12, 2010, 07:46:00 PM
Cheers for the reply.

Well I figured it would be best to check everything was ok first, as the mechanic (who knows his stuff, but isn't an expert on the B4) was pretty worried by how much it had moved and thought it highly likely it's hit.
I did contemplate just replacing the tensioner and seeing how it went but thought it could do more damage if something's taken a hit?
Just wanted to play it safe really.

Cheers, will give it a go when I'm next out there (Which won't be until next week, stupid Valentines weekend lol), couldn't really get my fingers on it but if it's as simple as that I'll try harder.
Cool, that should be easy enough then, ta!

So you think it's worth stopping where I am and replacing the tensioner (and chain?)? Only take few hours to half a day to get it run-able again.
Also, does the tensioner always keep it under tension or is it just when running?

Cheers.

EDIT: Just saw your post Chris.
I think I need a new cam cover gasket anyway, there's been a little be of dampness around the head but haven't looked into it properly yet. Will see what it's like, my normal parts place has been able to get things for me so fingers crossed for that.

Ok, so verdict is to just see if it runs as it is then (once timed correctly)? (He says worridly lol)
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Chris H on February 12, 2010, 08:07:44 PM
I would only run it if you feel its 100%. If you take a really good look down the plugs and down the ports you may see any damage and when the tops off if you turn the motor over with the 17mm bolt at the end of the crank you can get a good look at how all the valves are working. Turn the Vcc from low to high and just take a real good look. I really would'nt throw the gasket away if all poss because it a special fit and only available from Japan. You could wait anywhere up to 6 months for a spare and they always work after a good wash in soapy water.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Wudy on February 15, 2010, 01:01:17 PM
So if there's any damage I should have a good enough view through the plug hole with the cam cover off? Yea the mechanic was turning it over by hand when he had the cam cover off and everything seemed to be working ok.
I wasn't going to chuck the gasket till I get a new one, but will see what it looks like when I get it off.
Well when I get a chance to get out there again I'll get the cam cover off and see what I can see from there, will post up with my findings. I'll also get the tensioner out and see what that's like (I just assume it's gone, but will check).
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: tomacGTi on February 15, 2010, 06:43:45 PM
All you will see is a possible witness mark on the piston tops midway through the stroke if you can see anything at all. Even with the cam cover off, it is very difficult to see anything down the spark plug hole.

My experience is with non VVC as I smoked a head in an ill-fated cam experiment a couple of years ago.

Honestly, the places to check for damage without going nuts would be the tips of the valves (check for mushrooming) and the rocker arms themselves (pad surface should be chrome, not worn through, look for stress cracks through the casting).

If those are fine, retime the motor, install a new tensioner and fire it. Aside from possible big end bearing wear from piston contact, you'll never know till you have the motor up and running or if you chose to completely disassemble the motor.

If it's phucked, you would be dropping in a new motor anyway right?

-Randy
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Wudy on February 16, 2010, 10:07:02 AM
Nice one Randy, I'll see what I can see at those places. Will take some photos too (as I have as I've been taking this off for my reference) for confirmation of how they look.

Will post up on Wednesday eve with my findings :thumb:

Cheers guys.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Wudy on February 17, 2010, 11:39:50 AM
Ok, so I've got the cam cover off and the cam chain adjuster out.
Couple of questions...

First of all, how the **** do I get the cam sprocket back to where it should be?

When the intake cam is like this:
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03884.jpg)

The exhaust cam is like this:
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03885.jpg)

And at one point in the cycle the chain suddenly drop to sit like this:
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03881.jpg)

At the point when the chain is loose I tried just pushing it around the sprocket (hard to explain, but I'm sure you know what I'm on about) but there isn't enough slack between the two sprockets to go all the way. Any ideas?

Second question:

I took the tensioner out and I was able to turn the screw which was moving the tensioner arm in and out as I turned the screw, so it would appear this is a manual adjustment tensioner?
The automatic one is supposed to just 'lock' and 'unlock' rather than screwing all the way isn't it?
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: tomx611 on February 17, 2010, 01:23:44 PM
First Answer:
I think the intake and exhaust cam should be like this (-    -). i tried to take aways the cam and then i can set the position freely, and it's not much difficult if u got a service manual.

PS, i only disassembe my 97 bandit, not much experience. hope it can help u.

Sec answer:
my 97 bandit tensioner will turn back automatically after i take away the screw driver. i think the use of it just stop turning after the arm contact the chain, and provide tension on the chain.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Wudy on February 17, 2010, 03:27:02 PM
Quote from: tomx611 on February 17, 2010, 01:23:44 PM
i tried to take aways the cam and then i can set the position freely

I don't know what you mean by that mate?

Quote from: tomx611 on February 17, 2010, 01:23:44 PM
my 97 bandit tensioner will turn back automatically after i take away the screw driver.

Yea that's what I think mine should be like as standard.

So, as it seems that I have a manual adjuster, how tight should it be? And how often will it need adjustment? I think I'd prefer to replace it with a standard fit automatic tensioner really...
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: tomacGTi on February 17, 2010, 05:59:46 PM
None of these bikes came with a manual adjuster. Only Jay or APE have or can get a manual tensioner for these bikes.

If it doesn't spring back and lock, that means the adjuster is worn out and allowing the chain to go completely slack.

You may be able to get away with sliding the chain over a tooth at a time with the tensioner removed but make sure your crank is on the zero mark as well. It may not be a bad idea to pull the cams just to make sure it's all timed right. I have no idea how complicated that may be on a VVC motor though.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine out...
Post by: Wudy on February 17, 2010, 06:27:34 PM
Quote from: tomacGTi on February 17, 2010, 05:59:46 PM
You may be able to get away with sliding the chain over a tooth at a time with the tensioner removed but make sure your crank is on the zero mark as well.

That's what I tried, and had thought would be possible. But it's not, although I will give it another go on Friday (got to spend a day on the road tomorrow, but might have a go in the evening).

Quote from: tomacGTi on February 17, 2010, 05:59:46 PM
It may not be a bad idea to pull the cams just to make sure it's all timed right. I have no idea how complicated that may be on a VVC motor though.

How hard is it on the non-VC motor? I don't think the VC mech will make much of a difference, think we need Chris H for confirmation on this.

If I can't manage to get the chain over the sprocket I guess that's going to be the only way?  :banghead:

Cheers guys

EDIT: I have just though of another way, which would involve turning the motor backwards for about quarter of a turn, will this do any damage to anything? Or is it even possible? (My little nitro engines would only turn the correct way).
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: tomx611 on February 18, 2010, 03:03:38 AM
Wudy

i post the part of manual which for remove the cam, how u can fix ur problem.

regards,
Hong
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on February 18, 2010, 03:26:14 PM
Hi,
Have you got the VVC with VV on both exhaust and inlet or just Inlet?
To set the cam you must first remove the cam holders so the cam shafts are removable and the LH engine cover, then, line the T mark on the pick up trigger with the little arrow at the front of the case. Lift the inlet cam up and inwards so it can be turned and with the cam chain slack taken up you must fit it to the exhaust cam with its '1' arrow pointing to the front gasket surface and the '2' arrow facing up (do not move the crank T mark).from the '2' arrow you count 20 pins for the VVexhaust and i think 24 pins (will check) for the VV inlet only model and fit the inlet cam with its '3' arrow pointing to this pin, loosely bolt the cam holders in and turn the motor over and recheck. If good tighten the cam holders to 6-8.5lb-ft 8-12N.m.
Its now a good time to check the valve clearences but its a bIGGGGGGG job best done with a manual.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on February 19, 2010, 01:16:48 PM
Cheers for the post, it's variable inlet and exhaust.
I've just been working on it for a bit this morning and I've got the marks on the end of the cams lined up (exhaust cam was just one sprocket out). However, I don't think the numbers are pointing as you describe with the timing mark lined up. I've got some photos that I'll post up later tonight to show you what I mean. Think its right though (fingers crossed).
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on February 19, 2010, 05:02:54 PM
Ok, so some pictures (these are all with the timing marks lined up on the pick-up)...

Before:

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03887.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03888.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03889.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03890.jpg)


After

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03897.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03898.jpg)


So it seems that the ends of the cam are lined up, but the sprockets aren't. However, I think that when the cams are facing the opposite way they might be...
Look ok to you guys though?
Turned out to only be one tooth out, so there shouldn't be any damage to the pistons/valves (and I can't see anything). All the cams and rockers look ok too. Think I've escaped this one!

Just the valve adjustments to do next...  :shock:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on February 19, 2010, 05:11:24 PM
Hi Wudy,
The pictures are not clear enough to tell. Its the marks that got to be spot on as they time it all up. You got the first gen VVC so 20 pins is good.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on February 19, 2010, 06:35:01 PM
Right, so after thinking it was right it wasn't. It was infact out by 2 teeth. Just went out and did again what I did earier today and it's now lining up right *dances*

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03900.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03901.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03902.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03903.jpg)

(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u173/Woodinator89/Bandit400/EngineRemoval/DSC03904.jpg)

I haven't got the timing mark lined up with that, but I'll check that when I take the pick-up cover off. Fingers crossed that's all sorted then!

Onto checking the valve clearences, am I checking the clearance between the top of the valve stem/spring and the rocker arm? The opposide side to the adjuster? Because I can't see a thickness gauge getting down below the adjuster like I thought it should.

Cheers guys!
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on February 20, 2010, 05:37:10 AM
Looking much better. :beers:
Now regarding the clearences HOW MANY DAYS HAVE GOT SPARE!!!!!!!!!!
Have you got a service manual with VVC info in? I will get mine from my mates as the clearences are very complicated. They use shims and the pin adjusters are only for adjusting the clearence between the low and high followers.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on February 20, 2010, 05:47:43 AM
Woop!

Sounds painful lol, I've got as many days as it takes really, just want go get riding again! No, the closest manuals I've got is one for the non-VV ('91-'93) and one for the '97 VV (inlet only).
So if you've got one for the 1st gen VV that would be awesome!

EDIT: I'm going to ask this here beause it seems stupid to start a new thread for it:
Do you have to remove the swingarm to replace the chain?? On my old bike (little RS50) it was just a case of back wheel out and swap over.
If so, would it be worth replacing the bearings in there seeing as it's got ~41k km on it. Which reminds me, I get a bit of a knocking sound when I lift the weight off the back end, need to find out which joint that's coming from.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on February 21, 2010, 07:26:25 PM
You gotta use the 97 info but allow 0.18-0.25mm (0.007-0.010 inch) for the exhaust clearences and the book covers the inlet only so the exhaust is opposite way when turning the cam rocker shaft due to the rack movement.
So you will have to check low setting, high setting and clearence between the two. D'oh!!!
I wish you luck.
Chris.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on February 23, 2010, 06:50:25 AM
Sigh :-( lol
Hopefully have a crack at it later this week then. Sure I'll have some questions lol. But if I do I'll start a new thread just related to the valve clearances. If all goes bad I can always get it back to the garage and get him to do it lol.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on February 25, 2010, 12:49:47 PM
Ok, I haven't got round to having a go yet as I've been busy. Don't think I'll get a chance until next week unless I can find time on Sunday. Got my new chain and sprocket set today as well so I need to get that fitted too.

Chris, how do you put the cams in the high and low positions?

That 'Rocker shaft turning wrench' (as mentioned in the manual) isn't available at my local parts dept., and looking online puts it at about $180...
Think that's the final thing to sort out. I didn't realise it uses shims to adjust the clearance (just read your reply about it properly, was on my phone before), that's more money then lol.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on February 25, 2010, 01:16:56 PM
Hi mate,
I use the long 5mm screw that holds the righthand swtich gear on, you put it through one of the HT coil spacers and its as good as any OE tool. You will need the book for the 97VVC and then using the bigger exhaust clearences work opposite on the EX cam ( clockwise becomes anti clockwise). You need to write down all the shim sizes you have and then you can usually swop around and only buy the odd ones you need. The big low speed shims are standard as used on loads of bikes and the little top hats are Jap only :duh:
The pin adjusts the gap between the low and high so you got to set the cam in the correct place as you can set any of them in any position!!!!!! In the low position you set the low(big shim) and the pin, in the high you set the high (top hat) by turning the cam adjuster at the end of the follower shaft- this will only turn in one place bit i carnt remember where or why, so if it dont turn you will need to refrence the book and turn the engine over.
After youve done this you will know all there is to know about valveclearences.LOL :beers:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on February 26, 2010, 05:40:49 PM
Quote from: Chris H on February 25, 2010, 01:16:56 PM
After youve done this you will know all there is to know about valveclearences.LOL :beers:

Orrr I end up with a dead bike and being non-the-wiser  :stickpoke:

Sure it'll allllll be fine though! I'll give that handmade tool a go and see what I can do (while following the manual very closely...), I don't think they're any other specialist tools is there? Got the 'valve adjust driver' thing too (the £3 one).

Hopefully, my next post will be telling you it's all done and listing my new (in spec) clearances. I'm also hoping it's all in spec already, that would make me happy  :grin: but it's been over 5k since it was last done (bought with ~36k km and it's about 41k now, no idea when it was done before).

Cheers for your help! Muchly appreciated  :thanks:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on February 27, 2010, 05:34:54 AM
LOL- Its a hole in the head, but just go nice and slow and follow the low, high and sub clearence order and its ok.
You wont use the valve tool as they are too thick. I just use the half of the tool that fits the pin and then lock/unlock the nut with a fine 8mm 'T' bar, not ideal as you carnt unlock adjust and lock as with the proper tool but you get the jod done.
Very usefull thing you can have are a pair of magnetic pick up tools or the screw drivers with the pull out magnetic ends as you can use one to lift a shim and swop it with the other. YOU DO NOT want to drop a shim down the motor!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you do it without the magnet YOU WILL drop one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb:
Chris.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: tomacGTi on February 27, 2010, 09:43:08 AM
You know, I used to really want a VV, now I'm pretty happy with the regular 400, though I wouldn't mind the dual discs...

After reading all that, the novelty wore off quickly. I can do a normal B4 valve adjustment from start to finish in about an hour and change, including the carb synch afterwards: don't forget that part....

Best of luck Wudy, hope all goes well for you.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on February 27, 2010, 03:03:05 PM
Hey GTi- stick to what ya know! super quick to do the nonVVC as you dont even after swop shims, just unlock turn and lock. The VVC is a great little bike when set up and pulls like a dentist on speed! Problem is people look in the motor, see the pins and think easy job- adjust these and then the bike runs tight. Ive got 2 spare VVC motors and both have broken high speed cam followers from the motor never being adjusted.
Wudy- ive got some spare top hat shims, so if you need some PM the sizes and if ive got them i will send them to ya.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on March 03, 2010, 03:22:35 PM
Right, I'm getting there (lol), had a couple of hours this afternoon, all I've manged is the measurements on the intake side  :embarassed:

Anyway, here's my findings (both for opinions and to make sure I'm measuring the right places).
All for intake:

Lo-Side (Low cam position, clearance between the valve and the rocker arm)
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance
#1  Left    0.10
#1  Right  0.10
#2  Left    0.15
#2  Right  0.10
#3  Left    0.15
#3  Right  0.10
#4  Left    0.15
#4  Right  0.15

Hi-Side (High cam position, clearance between the two rocker arms)
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance
#1  Left    0.10
#1  Right  0.10
#2  Left    0.15
#2  Right  0.10
#3  Left    0.15
#3  Right  0.10
#4  Left    0.20
#4  Right  0.15

Sub-Rocker Arm Play (Low cam position, clearance between the two rocker arms)
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance
#1  Left    0.10
#1  Right  0.10
#2  Left    0.15
#2  Right  0.10
#3  Left    0.00
#3  Right  0.00
#4  Left    0.10
#4  Right  0.10

I'm pretty sure they're all measured in the right place.
I was only measuring it with a feeler gauge that goes 0.05, 0.10, 0.15, 0.20 etc. However, I have now found another one that goes in smaller increments so might re-measure with that to get a more accurate measurement... not sure if it's worth it though?

I'm quite worried about the sub-rocker arm play on cylinder #3 though... zero!? At least everything else is within spec (though 0.10 being on the bottom end of that).

Will hopefully be getting some time tomorrow afternoon to do the exhaust cam.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on March 04, 2010, 03:43:02 PM
Your ok running at the tighter end as you can assume its never been done before so its lasted this long and may have come out the factory at the smaller end. i remember the first time  i did mine and they were similar. I'd at least change the low side shims to say .15mm as ther only £4 each and then its easy to set the sub rocker play as its just a case of adjusting the pins. The sub rocker play is taken in the same place as the high measurement but with the cam in the low position. :thumb:
Remember when you do the EX you turn everything the other way. You get use to the actual position (how it sits slightly forward or slightly backwards) of the follower rather than the cam setting. Sounds like your getting ther and like i said you will find any other valves a simple job after these designed by a sadist VVC ones. :beers:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on March 11, 2010, 06:47:00 PM
Ok, so I finally got some time to measure my exhaust valve clearances.

"The sub rocker play is taken in the same place as the high measurement but with the cam in the low position"

So just to clarify:
MeasurementCam Pos.Measure
Low SideLowBetween Valve and Lower Rocker Arm
Sub Rocker Arm PlayLowBetween Upper and Lower Rocker Arms
Hi SideHighBetween Upper and Lower Rocker Arms

Correct?

And these are my findings for the exhaust...

Lo-Side
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance
#1  Left    0.20
#1  Right  0.20
#2  Left    0.20
#2  Right  0.20
#3  Left    0.20
#3  Right  0.20
#4  Left    0.20
#4  Right  0.20

Hi-Side
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance
#1  Left    0.20
#1  Right  0.20
#2  Left    0.20
#2  Right  0.20
#3  Left    0.20
#3  Right  0.20
#4  Left    0.20
#4  Right  0.20

Sub-Rocker Arm Play
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance
#1  Left    0.15
#1  Right  0.20
#2  Left    0.20
#2  Right  0.20
#3  Left    0.20
#3  Right  0.20
#4  Left    0.20
#4  Right  0.20

So I think the only ones that need attention are the following:

Exhaust:
Sub-Rocker play, cyl. #1, left valve (0.15)

Intake:
Sub-Rocker play, cyl. #3, left and right (both 0.00)

I might as well do the low-side intake shims as well like you say Chris yea? Just get them all at 0.15? Which would be:
Cyl #1 (left + right), cyl #2 (right), cyl #3 (right).

Question:
When adjusting the Sub-Rocker play, for example, on the intake (where I currently have 0.00 clearance), which way do I turn the adjustment screw to increase the clearance? Clockwise or anti?
That's if I can even get in there to adjust it lol.

Cheers  :thumb:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on March 11, 2010, 07:07:34 PM
Ayup mate- arnt some people luck sods!! lol.
They are very close  :beers:
Mine were all over the place altho none were zero.
Ye- i used a 'T' bar and ground the end diameter down till it fitted in, you turn them anti clockwise to give a bigger clearence and so when you tighten its possible to close the gap up.

Chris.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on March 11, 2010, 07:27:06 PM
Haha not bad is it  :grin:

I was tempted to just leave it so I can just get it running again but there are a couple of measurements I can't ignore there (i.e zero clearance lol). Also need to get a bolt out that sheared off when I took the exhaust off (when I was planning on taking the engine out). That's rather annoying because it's the one bit I didn't need to take off, and it's caused me the most grief lol.

Any chance you could get a pic of your modified T-bar? I can't picture how you'd use it.

I'll have a couple more hours tomorrow so I'll try and adjust the Sub-Rocker play and I'm going to buy some vernier calipers to measure my current shims and see what I need. Will try and get those for next week when I should have another free day or two.

God I need more spare time with this bike!
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on March 12, 2010, 07:29:26 PM
Ok, so I remeasured all the low-side clearances with the more accurate feeler gauge, and these are the results. Turns out some were a little way off! Going to get these all right then move onto the other measurements after.

Inlet, Lo-Side
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance  Shim Size
#1  Left    0.15
#1  Right  0.13
#2  Left    0.15
#2  Right  0.10  2.28mm (Use a 220 or 225 shim?)
#3  Left    0.15
#3  Right  0.15
#4  Left    0.15
#4  Right  0.20  2.12mm  (Use a 215 or 220 shim?)

Exhaust, Lo-Side
Cylinder No.  Valve  Clearance  Shim Size
#1  Left    0.25  2.05mm
#1  Right  0.20
#2  Left    0.28  2.05mm
#2  Right  0.18  2.12mm
#3  Left    0.23
#3  Right  0.23
#4  Left    0.25
#4  Right  0.20

And any info on how to find out what shim sizes I need for the VC exhaust?

Cheers  :motorsmile:

P.S. Chris, do you have a spare connector (both male and female) for the cam position (well, technically rocker shaft) sensors? I want to try something but don't want to cut into the wires, so I want to plug it in-line with the current wires in between the current connectors. Ta.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on March 15, 2010, 08:10:25 PM
Hi Wudy,
What dya mean about the shim sizes? you just add or subtract the difference, so if you got a 225 shim and a .15mm gap and you need a .20mm gap you get a 220 shim etc. Write down all the shim sizes and you can usually move them about and then only need a couple.
Regards the 8mm tool to adjust the rocker clearence i use one of these thats been ground down at the end to fit into the tiny space.-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FRANKLIN-8mm-HEX-BALL-END-BIT-SOCKET-100mm-LONG-3-8_W0QQitemZ250595573261QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Hand_Tools_Equipment?hash=item3a58a8fe0d
Ive got some spare sensors that have had the ends cut off if they are are of use you can borrow them. All they do is open or close a relay as part of the engine managment system. I pluged a gsxr400 sp 12pin cdi into my bike and it just runs with the cams in the high positsion.
Chris.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on March 16, 2010, 07:59:04 AM
Ohh right, cool. I was just using the chart in the manual, I did think there'd be a way of working it out but couldn't thnk how lol. Cheers though!

Cool, I'll see what I've got in the garage to use for the tool. Hopefully there'll be something similar that can be made to fit!

Will get the shims I need tomorrow (hopefully) and see if I can grab a couple of hours to carry on with it on Friday.

I'm starting want to hurry up with it a bit more now because the suns coming out lol. But my brother did let me have a ride on his '05 636 ZX-6R which was fun! But not as comfy as the Bandit lol.
That GSX-R400 CDI sounds good, would be cool to have it switchable though, between hi cam, lo cam or just 'auto'. Guess that could be done though by just giving the solenoid power? Not something I'm going to mess with anyway!
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on March 18, 2010, 06:09:09 PM
Chris, I need shim sizes 210, 215, 218, 222.

I went to my parts dept and they can only get them in .05 increments (so ordered the 210, 215). But the shim size selection table shows the other ones being available (218, 222). Can you confirm if you've been able to get them in sizes other than 0.05 increments?

Going to try some places next week or on Sat if I have time.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Chris H on March 19, 2010, 08:46:53 PM
Hi Wudy,
I got mine from the Triumph dealer as they are a common size- think they were about £4 each.
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on March 20, 2010, 12:57:19 PM
Oh ok. So you can definitely get them. Will ask around next week on my days off, got a friend of mine checking where he works too (Kwak dealer). Cheers :thumb:
Title: Re: Stripping the Engine...
Post by: Wudy on August 27, 2010, 12:08:08 PM
Woooo! All fixed and running now!
Just flew through it's MOT today too, with the only advisory being the rear tread getting close to the limit (which i figured anyway).

Still need to take her for a PROPER ride, but so far all seems good! Clutch is sticking a bit sometimes when slowing down, and there seems to be no power what so ever when first pulling off then the revs pick up really quickly around 3-4-5k rpm, makes turning out of sharp junctions a bit tricky. Might just be because I've got too used to my brothers ZX6-R that I've been riding, very smooth. But otherwise all good, so glad to have her running again!