Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: jcmjrt on September 22, 2005, 10:22:05 PM
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There's a guy selling accel super coils (used but supposedly good) for $100 for the B400. OK, I'm ignorant....what will these do for me and is that a decent price? Thanks.
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they are better than stock , where you at ? i can get them new for you around 130.00 I run nology pro fire coils but if i didnt get those i wouldve bought accels! :beers:
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Jay, new coils would be sweet. I might put in a request at some point during the winter.
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Jay,
Is that the Accel super coil kit - part number 140404? or...? Thanks.
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Jay, new coils would be sweet. I might put in a request at some point during the winter.
Likewise! Coils are something I've wanted to put on the bike since day 1, mine are looking a bit ratty and I really think #2 is getting weak.
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140403 accell $130.00 brand new plus shipping , im outta here gon racing be back mondayyo!
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Jay,
Guess I'm confused but I thought that we had a capacative discharge ignition (CDI)....not points or electronically triggered ignitions???
I will readily admit limited knowledge....
Good luck on your races! Kick their non-Bandit butts :winner:
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Jay,
Guess I'm confused but I thought that we had a capacative discharge ignition (CDI)....not points or electronically triggered ignitions???
I will readily admit limited knowledge....
Nope, they are electronically triggered. There is a magnetic pickup that sends a signal to the ECU (or black box) much like in modern cars. There was a thread in another part of the forum where a member used thed CDI coils and burned out his ECU.
Lots of people call the Black Box a CDI unit, but it's actually more of an ECU or Spark Control Computer.
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Thanks. I learn something new every day.
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FYI, Suzuki's term for the black box is simply the "Ignitor Unit." Here's their description of the Ignition System (Digital Ignitor):
"The fully transistorized ignition system consists of a signal generator, ignitor unit (including 8-BIT MICROCOMPUTER and CERAMIC 4MHZ VIBRATOR), ignition coils and spark plugs. The characteristic of the ingnition timing is programmed and stored in the "ROM" (READ ONLY MEMORY) of the ignitor unit. The signal genarator comprises the rotor tips and pickup coil.
The signal generator is mounted at the starter clutch. The induced signal in the signal generator is sent to wave-form arrangement circuit, and CPU receives this signal and calculates the best ignition timing from the signal of ceramic vibfrator and data stored in the ROM. The CPU outputs signal to the transistor of the I.G. coil output circuit which is connected to the primary windings of the ignition coil which is turned OFF and ON accordingly, thus it induces the secondary current on the ignition coil secondary windings and produce the spark between spark plug gaps.
Ignition cut-off circuit is incorporated in the ignitor unit to prevent over-running engine. If engine r/min. reaches 13,500 r/min., this ciruit cuts off the ignition primary current for all spark plugs."
And there you have it. :grin:
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A little offtopic... but at which RPM does the rev limiter kick in on a B4 ?
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@ 13,500 RPM
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Are you sure? I've been up to 15500 and it didn't kick in. The red starts at 14K on my bike.
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The Euro and US models are a little different...and the later models of Bandit. We only got them in the US for three years starting '90. Chenrezi a new member from Europe was just posting about his Euro bike and talking about some bikes not redlining until 16K.
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I read it... so I suppose I am the one to find out? I've seen a B4 engine with the conrod of cylinder #1 sticking out of the case :shock:
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Well, the guy came down to $70 so I should be getting them. I say probably as he has been a little slow on answering via e-mail. No transaction is done until you have the part in your hands...
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The 14K redline Bandit has the rev limiter at 14500.
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The 14K redline Bandit has the rev limiter at 14500.
Wrong!!!!! the 14000 redline has the rev limiter kicking in a 13750 RPM
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The Euro and US models are a little different...and the later models of Bandit. We only got them in the US for three years starting '90. Chenrezi a new member from Europe was just posting about his Euro bike and talking about some bikes not redlining until 16K.
He said the tack goes to 16000 the redline is still at 14000, my Canadian spec 91 bandit the tach goes to 18000 with the redline at 14000. I have seen the tach hit 18 on a missed 1-2 shift, an OEM limiter can't control that sort of over rev.
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I've tried it three times today on my way back from a bikers gathering. Three times it hit at 14500. I did this in 3rd gear.
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then your tach is out a few Rpm
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Perhaps, but 500 rpm after the redline would seem more likely than 250 before the redline imo. Can anyone else comment on this?
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Why would they want the limiter to kick in AFTER the danger zone?
With most bikes, especially Bandits, since they're not tuned for peak top end power, you're wasting time revving them that high anyway. Peak power is always below redline.
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Oops I made a mistake. section 6-5 of the Suzuki manual states
"ignition cut off circuit is incorporated in the ignitor unit to prevent over running the engine. If the engine rpm reached 13500 this curicuit cut of the ignition primary current to all spark plugs"
Its been awhile since I read the manual.
As red said the bandit if left stock, power fails off at 12500.
And what the hell are you doing holding the engine over the red line like that!!!!! AND not just once. I'm not saying that these motors arn't tough but you DON"T want to find out what happens when a rod brakes and saws the crankcase in half dumping 3L of oil infront of your back tire.
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Oh come on... it probably wouldn't go like that. :wink:
It'd probably suck a valve, or a piston would kiss one and just lock the back wheel. :stickpoke:
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Wow, they BOTH sound bad! And the results are just about the same, aren't they?
Wouldn't a locked up rear wheel be sliding like NOBODY'S business? I can see a squiggly black line down the highway for hundreds of feet (if you can keep the bike upright).
Yet, having engine parts flying out near your knees as hot oil splashes all over your feet and the rear starts sliding sounds just as bad, and just as hard to keep upright.
And, shouldn't red-line be the point where the engine EXPLODES? To figure true red line, remove the limiter (can that be done on a bandit?) and rev it up until it BLOWS, then subtract 100 rpm (just to be safe, Suzuki subtracts 500, bunch of wimps).
My totally stock 1992 has seen 12,000 regularly, but it gets pretty boring around there and you might as well shift (if you have another gear). Isn't the point to accelerate as fast as possible? On my bike, shifting before red-line seems way faster than waiting til it gets there. (but hearing her scream once in a while is nice).
Ron
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Oh come on... it probably wouldn't go like that. :wink:
It'd probably suck a valve, or a piston would kiss one and just lock the back wheel. :stickpoke:
If you go to the GSXR400 sites there are lots of engines that have broken rods
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Say hello to rod number 1
(http://members.home.nl/herrtod/Bandit/Misc/Blowup.jpg)
You are right, it's useless to rev it that high, unless you're in a corner and need to accelarate but can't shift because the exhaust is dragging over the road for example. However if you do it 'gently' there should not be a big problem. It is much worse to miss a gear for example, because then you go from full load to no load at all and all the excess force will be put on the crankshaft bearings. For a 50 cc bike this is about 500 KG of force on those bearings.
Anyway, now I know where the limiter kicks in, that's enough for me. Usually I shift at 12000 - 12500 so it ends up at about 10000 in the next gear, or at 11000 - 11500 when I shift from 4 to 5 or from 5 to 6.
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I have the same conversations with VW people all the time...
If you ever look at a power curve or better yet, dyno plot for any motor, you'll notice that power drops off well before the stated redline. Basically, taking it all the way up there is pointless unless you're trying to land it in the meat of the torque curve on the next shift, miss a shift or a re downshifting and miss a shift.
Common issues with over-revving are spun bearings, floated valves (since these are shim over bucket, it's less common versus hydraulic) and in the not-so-rare instance, broken rods. Since there is such little weight on everything, things do spin up faster but there's only so much a bearing can tolerate before it fails, hence the destruction.
It's a different story on a built motor, but stock, I would keep it under the redline.
-Randy
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If you go to the GSXR400 sites there are lots of engines that have broken rods
WHERE? :shock:
Mine hits 14,000 15,000 rpm all the time! :stickpoke:
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That's the spirit :beers: My other bike redlines at 10000, however I've tuned it so the power begins at 10000 and I shift at 13000 which is 1000 RPM after the scale stops on the rev counter :banana: Hasn't broken down on me... so it's not a big deal, just don't make it a daily habit :stickpoke:
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If you go to the GSXR400 sites there are lots of engines that have broken rods
WHERE? :shock:
Mine hits 14,000 15,000 rpm all the time! :stickpoke:
Agreed, my stock B4 runs up to 14k no problemo, it's a 1991, if that matters.
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Going back to history, how much KICK would you say to gain from the aftermarket coils?