Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: NintyOne on May 21, 2006, 01:50:38 PM
-
While trying to remove Idle Air Jets, two got messed up. One is out but the screw driver slot is a little chewed up. On the other one, the screw driver slot is mostly gone but it's still stuck in there.
My questions are:
1) How sensitive is the idle air flow to the entry shape of the jet? The whole point of this exercise is to achieve perfect idle balance. The bore that meters the air flow is in the second half of the jet. But, how significant is the entry shape?
2) Should I just clean up the mangled end with a drill bit and be done with it?
3) Or, should I take out the jet with "Easy Out" and replace it?
4) If #3, does anyone have spare jets that you would be willing to part with? The jet is #1.55
TIA
-
I can imagine the shape is very important. A jet is numbered to the amount it flows. For example, you can have two #100 jets, but one has a 1.00 mm hole and the other has 1.15 mm, but they both flow the same amount of liquid / air per hour.
I would replace them with good ones.
-
For the Fuel jets, they do have a 'shape' that makes a difference....
I have no clue on the air jets, but I would certainly replace them (could be a Lot of hair-pulling going on to diagnose running problems caused by leaving them in).
I had the exact same situation with the pilot jets (fuel)... had to pull 1 with an EZ-Out, replaced them all (they were all buggered).
-
How the hell did they get so screwed up in the first place????
-
How the hell did they get so screwed up in the first place????
You need to ask? Gorilla previous owners (or the tool clueless, sometimes a combination of both).
The people who have no business working on a bike, working on a bike (trust me, this includes LOTS of dealer shop monkeys).
Take your pick
-
I have the factory shop manual, which specifies using thread locking compound in a lot of places. I think that is what they did at the factory. A lot of screw type assemblies are very difficult to break for the first time. In case of jets, the fact that they are made of brittle brass alloy doesn't help the situation.
In any case, since the overall consensus is to replace the damaged jets, does anyone have spares?
TIA
-
It's better to buy new jets. Jets are cheap. Bike bandit should have all the parts you require. The sizes are listed on the sides of the jets you've removed (and in the shop manual). Match them up to the pictures and you're good to go.
Bike Bandit Mikuni Link (http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/Manufacturer-Parts~mfr~Mikuni.asp)
-
I can tell you for a fact that the air screws are not locktited into place at the factory!
-
Theif400,
Air screws are spring loaded and adjustable; therefore, of course they wouldn't be locktited in place.
However, I believe you are confusing them with air jets, which is the subject of this topic. If an air jet unscrews itself loose, due to vibration, it can easily end up inside the combustion chamber with severe consequences.
-
Theif400,
Air screws are spring loaded and adjustable; therefore, of course they wouldn't be locktited in place.
However, I believe you are confusing them with air jets, which is the subject of this topic. If an air jet unscrews itself loose, due to vibration, it can easily end up inside the combustion chamber with severe consequences.
Ok Rob I'm going to let him have it LMAO
The Air Jets are not Locked into place by anything other than Galvantic corrosion. And should never never never be taken out for any reason. I dought there is anyone on this site including me who has the knowlege to start messing around with the air jet sizing. Even if your cleaning the carbs there is nothing gained by trying to remove them other than screwing then up! Being a none wearing item in the carb I don't think Suzuki would even stock them, They may have given it a part number but that doen't mean it's a stocking item.
-
OK hotshot, dance around the issue all you want. I have no further response for this foolishness.
-
OK hotshot, dance around the issue all you want. I have no further response for this foolishness.
Dance I might but I'm not the Idiot that tried to take them out :monkeymoon:
-
Don't waste your time & money ordering Mikuni jets from Suzuki. Find a Mikuni dealer that stocks the parts. On Bike Bandit don't order jets from the OEM carb diagram. Click (http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/Manufacturer-Parts~mfr~Mikuni.asp) > search parts by manufacter > mikuni > street and save yourself a bundle. Example, pilot jets from the OEM carb diagram are listed at $4.99 a peice, from the Mikuni section they're $13.49 for a pack of 4. Exact same part but without the markup.
I've never ordered from Bike Bandit, but my local dealer stocks the complete range of Mikuni jets so I don't see why Bike Bandit wouldn't.
Good luck, with a little patience and perseverance you'll have the carb as good as new in no time.
-
They wont have those jets as they are 1. not a wearing item 2. not a tuning item. Best bet would be to find a set of used carbs on ebay and take it easy with the screw driver next time :stickpoke:
-
2. not a tuning item.
I disagree with that. It is in fact a very important part, and you can do a lot of tuning with it. In fact, I think it should be replaced by a different sized jet if you use a jet kit that changes the emulsion tube.
-
2. not a tuning item.
I disagree with that. It is in fact a very important part, and you can do a lot of tuning with it. In fact, I think it should be replaced by a different sized jet if you use a jet kit that changes the emulsion tube.
Well sir that proves how much you know! These items the main air jet and pilot air jet are never included in any CV carb rejetting kits. And if I think back far enough to the last carbs I had to try to fix because some Moron tried to remove these same jets they are pressed into the carb body. And Second CV carbs don't have emulsion tubes!!! Fixed venturi carbs have them
I will however agree with you that they do affect the jetting but that is figured at the design stage and never used after the basic fuel curve is plotted out on a flow bench. The slide cut away, needle jet, jet needle, pilot jet, diaphragm springs, and main jets are all we need to refine the jetting.
-
From the service manual (Fuel and Lubrication System 4-8): "Meanwhile, the fuel in float chamber (3) is metered by main jet (4), and the metered fuel enters needle jet (5), in which it mixes with the air admitted through main air jet (6) to form an emulsion."
I don't care what you call the tubes, but in that tube an emulsion of fuel and air is formed. So you could call it an emulsion tube I suppose.
The air jet reduces the signal from the needle jet so there is less pressure difference to cause fuel flow through the main jet. With this you can fine tune the main jet system. It also lowers the viscosity of the fuel and improves atomisation so the system is able to respond faster to changing fuel requirements of the engine.
I could be wrong of course, up to you to explain that to us :wink:
-
Id call them emulsion tubes to! pilot jet and main jat thats all I know that are in those carbs slide needle, slide , float assembly, fuel air screw, float needle. enrichner tube (think that one works with the choke. Ive had to put air jet correctors in cv carbs before for some factory jet kits , you had to drill out air jet hole bigger with supplied drill bit and put the new one on to the old one and they sent a small tube of super glue to make sure it didnt vibrate out. ( now on that note ive seen the pilot screws on these carbs stripe off, and the air fuel screws. So what has this whole mess turned in to? :stickpoke:
-
I was waiting for you to show up on this one Jay! What took you so long LOL
-
So does that prove how much I know, sir? :beers:
-
Ok here's the scoop, Seems that Factory Pro for some unknown reason desided to toss around the name emulsion tube in place of the proper name needle jet. But after dealing with them last summer I can beleive it. They also didn't know that Non US spec Bandits have 33mm carbs and told me that if I purchased one of their jet kits they didn't know if it would work
-
Ok here's the scoop, Seems that Factory Pro for some unknown reason desided to toss around the name emulsion tube in place of the proper name needle jet.
Not necesarily, the name Emulsion tube has been around along time and is taught in many mechanic schools and is in many books ( shop manual or service manual)
Here are some more confusing terms : petcock, fuel switch, pilot jet, slow jet, air screw , fuel screw, air/fuel screw, tachometer, rev counter, piston clip, jesus clip, rim, wheel, disc, rotor, gas, fuel, ignition switch, ignition kill switch, enrichner, choke, ignitor, pickup, coil, cdi, spark box, ect... :beers:
-
OK hotshot, dance around the issue all you want. I have no further response for this foolishness.
I recant everything i have said I just cleaned garyolas carbs for him and yes there were air jets that un screwed at the mouth of the carbsand they are like .6 or something. sorry for my disbeleif bro but i run race carbs and not the stockers. but you up shit creek if it dont run right you might as well get a new set of carbs.
cheers
jay