Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: Squishy on October 09, 2011, 05:11:55 PM
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Hi,
I've found many sources for bandit 400 specification, from forums like this or from japanese websites. However to me, it's still not clear which version has what HP.
Japanese websites say that from november 1992 the power was recuded from 59 to 53, for all models - not just the V.
However from other sources (like this forum: http://banditalleybbs.yuku.com/topic/3604/Differences-between-GSF-400-and-GSF-400V-#.TpH_h7J6D4Y) people say that the V model has 59 while the normal version has 53. There's also the german version that has 50HP?
My b400 has the black exhaust, one brakedisc up front. It's also from early 1992. Am I right in assuming that mine is the 59HP model?
Thanks,
Walter
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Hi Walter,
Only Japanese B4's went from 59 to 53hp, other markets had their own rules eg German 50hp and UK 5hp.
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Hi Walter,
Only Japanese B4's went from 59 to 53hp, other markets had their own rules eg German 50hp and UK 5hp.
Well, I assume they detuned them in the factory in japan..so that wouldn't matter?
How would I find which HP version I have?
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Nodody?
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Idunno Wtf mine is either lol...Mfg in Japan, 11-1991, and titled as a 92' ...maybe that would explain a top speed of 127mph? Another guy on here can claim no more than 105mph...?
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Top speed is more a function of gearing: Engine RPM -> Transmission -> Front Sprocket -> Rear Sprocket -> Wheel Size. HP will get you up to that maximum quicker and hold you there better. Changing the sprockets can improve the high end speed from the stock one at the expense of low end acceleration. Increasing HP can get some of that acceleration back. On a B400 a 16 front sprocket and 44 rear would get 128 MPH.
http://www.gearingcommander.com/
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Top speed is more a function of gearing: Engine RPM -> Transmission -> Front Sprocket -> Rear Sprocket -> Wheel Size. HP will get you up to that maximum quicker and hold you there better. Changing the sprockets can improve the high end speed from the stock one at the expense of low end acceleration. Increasing HP can get some of that acceleration back. On a B400 a 16 front sprocket and 44 rear would get 128 MPH.
http://www.gearingcommander.com/
Not really, my b400 can't get to 200km/h because it doesn't have the HP to make more RPM in 6th gear. It's not like im hitting the rev limiter in 6th gear now.
It does about 185km/h on the speedo now
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Bump :(
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Sound like a Japanese import model. They are limited to 180 by law. You can disable the limiter by doing a mod which replaces a wire and resister to one that fools the bike into thinking it's in a lower gear. I'll try to search around for the procedure. Even with 50 hp which is the lower figure you should be able to hit 200 at least. Sounds to me like you're hitting the limiter. Put it this way I had an 82 GS400 with LESS horsepower and I could hit 170 on the clock. The magical 180 is too much of a coincedence. What is the RPM level when you top out? Is it below redline by a few thousand RPM?
Hell there is a whole post on it with pictures here:
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=11897.0
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Sound like a Japanese import model. They are limited to 180 by law. You can disable the limiter by doing a mod which replaces a wire and resister to one that fools the bike into thinking it's in a lower gear. I'll try to search around for the procedure. Even with 50 hp which is the lower figure you should be able to hit 200 at least. Sounds to me like you're hitting the limiter.
Hell there is a whole post on it with pictures here:
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=11897.0
Apart from the fact that mine hits 185km/h, why would you say it's an import?
My bike has a E13 country code on it - which according to the internet is Luxembourg.
Also, japanese models have chrome exhaust and 2 diskbrakes and according to this site (below) japenese models don't have the rubber knee guard (which I do have)
Rubber knee guard on the frame pipe. (Not in Japanese models)
Front brake disk is single.(Japanese model is double disks)
So I don't think mine is japanese!
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If a bike was popular sometimes they would be thrown together as most people don't run around at 180 it seems reasonable that it would be "enough" for most people. For example some european Bandit 1200s have a ignition retarder wire for 1st and 2nd to comply with some phucked up european emissions or noise law. You snip the wire and suddenly get full power. It might be easy to check if they were just short on European engines and threw a Japanese engine in there to meet some importation quota as it's the same engine. Or maybe it was mixed up at the factory. Considering it's only one resister it would be easy to miss. Who knows but you can check the wire that is necessary to see what resister is on there with the above post link.
The only other thing I can think of other than the engine has lost compression is maybe the fuel petcock has become tired and isn't supplying the necessary fuel at high rpms. For fun try putting the petcock on "Prime" then go on another high speed run and see if it helps.
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Problem is. All the sites are very clear about the different Japanese models, even with chassis-numbers.
However the sites are not clear about the "export edition". Are these Japanese models turned into European models, or separate productions?
E.g... my European 1992 has chassis number 107xxx. Can I assume mine is therefore BEFORE the 53hp restriction (since japenese restriction starts at 126917) or do the export editions have it's own numbers?
edit: Btw I'm not asking since I think my b400 is lacking power per se. I'm just curious which version I have.
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There was a USA model, UK model and German model. Then you have Japan and the eastern countries etc.
All were different, 1 disc/2 disc, clippons/risers, stainless exhaust etc. If you have a green/yellow wire from the gear sensor to the cdi then theres good reason to beleave it's there to allow restriction of some kind. The well documented being Jap model bikes with 180KPH restrictions.
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Chris H has got it right just check the wire. If the wire is there it doesn't matter what the country code is as bikes get shipped around the world all the time. Say for instance there is a dock foreman and he says "Ok sheet says here we need to ship 100 bikes to France, ooops we only have 99" "Suzuki say ok we'll send over another bike, damn we only have the Japanese/restricted ones assembled for shipping. What the hell the customer probably won't notice or care" The limiter also only limits RPM sent by the ignition coil so if you can get 185km doesn't mean it's not restricted because it went an extra 5km over, it just shows the speedometer error as Suzuki clocks the bike at a track at 180 and just pegs the rpm at whatever that is. If you wanted to test it without going through wiring, but its alot more work, is put the smallest sproket you can on the front which will fool the CDI unit into thinking your going faster than you really are, if you speed now tops out at say 150-160 then you know %100 you're being limited. If not than thats all the bike will give you without jetting and piping it. What is the top rpm it reaches at 185? is it alot below redline?
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Okai.. well, what would be the fastest way to check for the wire? Is it easily accessible from the gear selector or easier from the CDI? I've done quite some maintenance on my 400 but never revealed either of these.
Although I doubt I'm limited. I think it's just the fact that it's 20 years old and probably lost about 10hp
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The fastest I've found on the internet is the Bandit 400 doing around 200 or 210 max with jetting and piping so you're not too far off if you bike is stock. You may just be hitting the power wall. Is the bike stock? No aftermarket pipes or jet kit? It is only a 400 I have a 1200 and at 180 it accelerates like a bat out of hell, maybe you just need more engine to get what you want.
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The fastest I've found on the internet is the Bandit 400 doing around 200 or 210 max with jetting and piping so you're not too far off if you bike is stock. You may just be hitting the power wall. Is the bike stock? No aftermarket pipes or jet kit? It is only a 400 I have a 1200 and at 180 it accelerates like a bat out of hell, maybe you just need more engine to get what you want.
I have an aftermarket pipe but no jet kit. It's stock otherwise. I haven't hit the highway with the new exhaust but I doubt it'll go faster since I think it'll be too lean with open exhaust without jetting. It hits 185km/h stock.
But like I said i'm not concerned about the power of my b400. I'm just interested which version 400 I have and whether it was 50, 53 or 59 HP originally
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Well if you would like to throw in some larger jets you would not only get more power but I'm sure top speed would also increase. If you jet it and it still hits that 185 then you know for sure you're hitting the limiter. Since jetting the bike will only cost about $8 for a set of mainjets and will give you more power regardless it might be worth popping in a size or two larger mainjets anyway as you can only get more power not less with them in there. If you loosen the throttle and choke cables usually you can move the carbs enough out of their boots to pop in the jets without having to take the entire bank out of there.
For example if you're using the stock airbox and filter and you're mainjets are say 100(not real just an example) with an aftermarket pipe I would go to say 102.5's which is one up on the mainjets. If you want to use a K&N high flow filter then you may want to go to 105's which is 2 up from stock. Changing jets sounds more complicated than it is, if you can turn a screw you can change your mainjets. Are your mixture screws unplugged? Sometimes turning them out a 1/4 turn from stock helps if you have lean cruise issues with an aftermarket pipe as well. You may want or have to shim the needles as well with some Radio Shack or hobby store shims to richen the mid-range. You can buy a kit if you like for $100 or just buy $8 worth of jets, the choice is yours.
WARNING: These numbers I gave are just an example be sure to find out exactly what mainjets you have before going out and spending the $8 and time of ordering an incorrect mainjet. If you want to find out for sure just take one of the outside carb floatbowls off and CAREFULLY unscrew the mainjet and it will have the size stamped on it. Remember to be carefull with the mainjets and emulsion tubes as they are soft brass when tightening don't go totally jihad screwing them in there. Nice and snug is fine.
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Well if you would like to throw in some larger jets you would not only get more power but I'm sure top speed would also increase. If you jet it and it still hits that 185 then you know for sure you're hitting the limiter. Since jetting the bike will only cost about $8 for a set of mainjets and will give you more power regardless it might be worth popping in a size or two larger mainjets anyway as you can only get more power not less with them in there. If you loosen the throttle and choke cables usually you can move the carbs enough out of their boots to pop in the jets without having to take the entire bank out of there.
For example if you're using the stock airbox and filter and you're mainjets are say 100(not real just an example) with an aftermarket pipe I would go to say 102.5's which is one up on the mainjets. If you want to use a K&N high flow filter then you may want to go to 105's which is 2 up from stock. Changing jets sounds more complicated than it is, if you can turn a screw you can change your mainjets. Are your mixture screws unplugged? Sometimes turning them out a 1/4 turn from stock helps if you have lean cruise issues with an aftermarket pipe as well.
WARNING: These numbers I gave are just an example be sure to find out exactly what mainjets you have before going out and spending the $8 and time of ordering an incorrect mainjet. If you want to find out for sure just take one of the outside carb floatbowls off and CAREFULLY unscrew the mainjet and it will have the size stamped on it. Remember to be carefull with the mainjets and emulsion tubes as they are soft brass when tightening don't go totally jihad screwing them in there. Nice and snug is fine.
Hm ye I thought about installing bigger jets when I bought my aftermarket exhaust if it gave me any trouble. However I've noticed no real difference going from stock to open exhaust. I did change the throttle needles to +1 richer, but this will only affect mid-range.
The stock main jet for my bike is #100 btw ;) so hehe.
But I don't know.. everyone says something else.
Here's a quote from post on this forum as well:
If you have a stock pipe and air box go to a 110 main jet,and raise the needle up by moving the c clip down one groove. The stock location is the middle groove.This will get ride of the dreaded flat spot from 4000 RPM to 6500 RPM that we all know about.
If you run a pipe, or slip on,modified air box and a K&N filter as i do you may have to as high as 130 on the main jets and remember to get the carbs balanced as this affects throttle responce as well.
He says go +27.5 (in his case stock was 102.5)....
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Make sure what mainjet you have in there as different years have different mainjets. If you're 100% certain you have a 100 in there then I would try a 102.5 or with a high flow filter 105. Since you get the lovely adjustable needles you should be good with 1 notch richer than stock. With a size larger mainjet you'll notice the extra power but if you like you can always take it to a dyno shop if you like. Putting in extra mainjets, etc will still give you benefits even if your bike has a limiter as the limiter doesn't kick in until 5th and 6th gears and if your top speed doesn't increase then you know 100% that you need to get out the wire snips or whatever it needs to de-limit it. Either way it's a good $8 investment.
Mikuni jets go up in steps of 2.5 if you get a +27.5(wow) step you'll flood your engine over anything but light touches on the throttle. Maybe a mistype but just giving you the heads up in case you make a mistake and order 127.5 mainjets which is closing in on a stage 2 for 1200 cc motor with 3 times the engine!
I have 110 mains and I'm a little lean as I'm going to use a K&N filter with my Bandit 1200 instead of the stock filter. I'm rich on the pilots as I followed the jet kits instructions instead of my own good sense and popped in 1 size up pilots which were not necessary at all so my jetting is a bit phucked. I do have all the necessary jets to fix it in my storage facility but I'm just being lazy until spring. I'm going to a 112.5 and a 15 pilot(stock)when I can get my lazy ass up. It doesn't help that I'm in Canada and it's cold here either.
To give you an example. My friend who has the same bike, left everything stock but popped on a slip on and had awsome results with one size up (102.5 instead of 100) on his Bandit 1200. I have extra air coming in through the airbox with an extra 1.5" hole as the 1200 uses the same airbox as the 600 and is constantly starving for air. Fortunately for anything with 600 and down the airbox is more than enough to feed all the air that is needed for the smaller engine so it's not necessary to mod the airbox. If you're not modding the intake usually 1 or 2 jet sizes up from stock should be enough to give you what you need with just a slip on. Freeing up the intake or exhaust even more will require more jet however it also gets more susceptible to changes in temperature or wet conditions. The best and cheapest bang for buck is a slip on and a couple of jet sizes up for drivability vs power.
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Ye I was surprised by the 130 jetting. It's written in this topic:
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?topic=208.0
Anyway my manual says the '92 bandit has #100 as main jets... And I'm quite sure previous owners didn't change them.
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Couldn't find it but maybe he is using a modified airbox? Or it could mean that he has dumped the airbox all together and has K&N filter pods which you would probably need around 127.5's. Be careful what other people are doing, they may be not understanding what is actually going into their bike if they haven't installed it themselves or may be doing mods that are not fully explained.
The easiest and safest way is to do the jetting in steps at a time. So say in your case you say "Ok I need new mainjets what do I have in there". So you know you have 100's so you look up the appropriate mainjet for your bike and know they come in steps of 2.5. So you first start out with 102.5's ride around for a good 3 hours testing throttle response, full throttle runs with a plug check etc. and test it basically. You look at the plugs and the base ring looks a little lean(Short of a full turn of light soot). So you go ok let's try 105's, hey this is better, More full throttle power, plugs look good, etc. But to be sure you try 107.5's for fun. Hmmm not so good power is lower when the bike gets hot. Sooty base ring. So now you know that 105's are good for your bike. Total cost $24 and a few hours of your time. Sometimes it's good to get what other people are saying on the forums to get sort of an idea of where you should be but every bike is different. Some need more jet, some need less, etc. Try and use common sense when experiment and your "butt dyno" when jetting.
Ask questions to yourself "Is the throttle more responsive?" "Does it run better cold than hot" "What are the plugs telling me?" I'd say %99.999 of the people out there can tell when a bike is running stronger or weaker and at what temperature.
For example if the bike pulls awesome when semi-warmed up then less so when fully warmed up then it's rich. Better warm but not great then it's lean. ETC ETC. You should also jet for the average temperature at what you normally ride at. So if you only ride when it's 30C or above it's going to be lean when running a 10C. For me I ride right up until it snows so I could be riding in 2 degrees or 35 degress so it averages out around 20 degrees so thats what I shoot for, so its only slightly lean in wintertime(sometimes I turn the mixture screws out a 1/4 turn for the winter) and in 35C its slightly rich but generally overall it rides perfectly. If you only jetted for the cutting edge of lean power at 35C at 10C it would run like a dog. But generally if your not modding the intake with K&N pods or something it should run perfectly fine with a slip on with 1 or 2 jets sizes up and a needle adjustment.
Put it this way I have a 1200 so my cylinders are around 270 CC or something and they are using the same mainjet size as your 100CC cylinders(I have bigger carbs of course)thats how much the 1200 is restricted. So on your little 100CC cylinders I would guess that 127.5's would be crazily rich unless you were going to K&N filter pods and even then I would be a little worried that it's too much jet. I found the post he made and he seems to infer that he has pods. Although he is using a 91 Bandit 400 which I believe had different carbs.
I would try a step at a time until you are rich then go one step down with the stock airbox.