Author Topic: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.  (Read 5122 times)

Offline t-tim44

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Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« on: April 15, 2013, 07:28:09 PM »
 Another Bandit running problem post  :roll:  

It's a 1991 400vm jap import with a k&n panel filter in the standard air box and an end can.

The bike wasn't running for a long time but thanks to a lot of advice and info on here and other forums and big thanks to ChrisH the bike is now running.

I've put  all new o-rings in the carbs. It has 102.5 main jets with standard pilot jets. The needles are second notch from the top and the mixture screws are 1 3/4 turns out. Float heights are about 14.8mm.

Ive read several threads on different forums and the factory pro tuning guide which is all excellent. From reading this I've a rough idea how to enrich or lean the fuelling at different rev ranges.

The bike is hesitant at low revs and very reluctant to rev but it does idle reasonably steadily. It behaves better at higher revs and improves slightly when fully warm but not by much. Still not rideable really.

It needs choke to start when cold as normal so im thinking its too lean rather than really rich.

I've put a video on YouTube. Please could you guys watch it and see if you think it's too rich or lean at the low end?

http://youtu.be/_caVP-3fARA

I'm a novice at messin with carbs but want to figure it out so any help appreciated.

This has been posted on other sites too so apologies if you've already read it.

Offline TJS

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 12:03:53 AM »
So it has a jet kit....as you can move your needle up and down with the clip.
Turn your air mix screw to 3 turns out from fully closed.
Clean and oil the K&N filter
More Bandit 400 stuff on my youtube:
https://youtube.com/c/StanleysGarage369

Offline t-tim44

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 02:49:48 AM »
No not a proper jet kit. I didn't think they made one for the early variable valve bandits. Wen I was changing the o rings and cleaning the cabs I got 102.5 mains from the local Suzuki dealer.

Offline TJS

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 03:43:09 PM »
If you mix and match ....then be prepared to learn and take the carbs off and on many times. Follow the Factory Pro site on tuning CV carbs.
More Bandit 400 stuff on my youtube:
https://youtube.com/c/StanleysGarage369

Offline t-tim44

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 03:05:19 AM »
Ok thanks, factory pro guide is comprehensive. . The carbs are standard apart from bigger mains. I had a look at he kits factory pro sell. They look good but I think the carbs on the Jap 400s and the European ones were different to the ones sold in he US? Has anyone used a factory pro kit on an early jap import 400 vc engine?

Offline Squishy

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 07:14:31 AM »
So it has a jet kit....as you can move your needle up and down with the clip.

No mine is stock and has adjustable needle height.

Anyway, from the video, I would definitely say it's running on 3 cylinders.
Feel the exhaust pipes and check whether they all become hot

Offline t-tim44

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 09:18:18 AM »
Hi Squishy, thanks for your reply.

Ive double checked each cylinder and theyre definitely all firing - also it revs great at higher rpm. I just kept the revs low in the video as thats where the problems are.

I got a replacement rear shock absorber for it today so I'll replace it tonight and have another go with the carbs. If theres any improvement Ill post up another video


Offline Squishy

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 09:42:53 AM »
Hi Squishy, thanks for your reply.

Ive double checked each cylinder and theyre definitely all firing - also it revs great at higher rpm. I just kept the revs low in the video as thats where the problems are.

I got a replacement rear shock absorber for it today so I'll replace it tonight and have another go with the carbs. If theres any improvement Ill post up another video


On the video your 400 sounds EXACTLY like my 400 when I haven't got the fueltank vacuumhose connected to my left carb. I would also behave exactly the same in that hesitant manner. Try to check whether really all 4 exhaust pipes are equally hot.

Once I also had a similar problem and it would also run normally high RPM. I checked and cleaned all the sparkplugs and 'sparkplug caps'? and it ran fine afterwards.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 09:44:48 AM by Squishy »

Offline bullet5

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 04:58:11 PM »
Did you increase the number of turns on your mixture screws in the end or not?

I've just been playing around with a few spare VC engines/carbs in my garage, and one setup provided similar results as to your video. 

This is a list of what I've done to solve the hesitation on my bike...

Remove all spark plugs, give them a really good clean with a brass wire brush, then hold them under a blue flame for a bit to burn off the remaining carbon deposits.  As Squishy stated above, also clean out the caps and check to see which cylinders are running by tapping the downpipes.  (Do this before carrying out the work we're listing).  Put your battery on charge and leave it there for a good few hours.

Drain the float bowls, and remove the carbs.  Get them on a clean work bench and remove the top hats, making sure not to loose the spring behind it, or the little rubber o-ring.  Ensure the diaphragms are not torn/damaged.  Tip the carb upside down and remove the slider pin.  The pin should have one white plastic spacer underneath the clip and one orange coloured thinner one on top, between the clip and the spring.  Next remove the float bowl, and check the float mechanisms aren't seized.  Remove each jet in turn to check it's not blocked.  Once you're happy that everything is there and in order, put it back together, taking care to seat the diaphragms correctly and remember the little o-rings.

While the carbs are on the bench, this would be the perfect time to set the mixture levels. Carefully wind the screws in and then turn them 2.5 turns out. (Yes this is quite a way out when compared to the stock figure, but bare in mind it was originally run a tad lean, and if you have any exhaust system/high flow air filter fitted this will cause it to lean out, and cause the problem you are facing).  Place the carbs on top of the engine and wire in the throttle and choke cables.  They are one huge PITA to fit if the carbs are already in position.

Refit the carbs and sparkplugs after letting the cylinders air for a few hours (without the spark plugs in).  Refit the airbox (preferably with a standard air filter, but the K&N will do I suppose), check the wiring is set up correctly.

If one or more of the downpipes was completely cold after trying to run the bike, then leave that spark plug out of the engine (but plugged into the coil wire), rest it on the rocker cover making sure it has a good ground, and turn the bike over.  (This is without any fuel in the system).  If it's sparking then all would seem good, if not then try to get a better ground.  If it's still not sparking then it looks like you may have a coil pack/HT lead failure.

Refit the tank, and put a few litres of fresh fuel in it.  Don't forget about the vacuum pipe.

Switch the tank to reserve, and hit the starter button.  If everything went well, you should now have one running bandit.  If the bike is still a bit hesitant at idle, then increase the idle mixture screws half a turn at a time.  Once it starts to get better reduce this figure to 1/4 turns.  Remember all carbs must be at the same setting.  Don't set the screws too far out, (more than about 4 turns) otherwise you will end up sooting up the spark plugs, and you'll have this issue all over again.

The next step to a smooth idle will be a carb balance. :thumb:

Sorry for the very long post, but I thought I may as well document everything I did in one go.
All the best, and good luck,
Bullet5.

Offline t-tim44

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Re: Bandit 400vm (1991) low rev hesitation with video.
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 09:51:48 AM »
Thanks everybody for your replies, sorry its taken me so long to update this thread!

Ive been working a lot so havent been near the bike but finally got time at the weekend to have a play about with it.

First of all, you were right, one cylinder was not firing - the left-most one (cyl 1?)

I checked spark again and it was good, double checked compression just to be sure seen as the plug was out anyway - it was good, so knew it was most likely fuel.

I removed the carbs and stripped down the left-hand carb, cleaned everything again, reassembled it and set the float height. Put it back on the bike, filled with fuel and.............bingo! Bike running on all four and revving pretty cleanly. I then balanced the carbs and the improved things a bit more. Ill post a video next time im up at the bike.

Its a hell of a lot better than its ever been, though I will say its not totally perfect. 90% of the time it revs well, the other 10% it will hesitate very slightly.

So as per bullet5's post (thank you very much for posting, ive literally just read it and its much appreciated) I'll tinker with the idle mixture screws to see how it responds.

Its not MOT'd at the minute so I cant test it on the road but it feels decent round the workshop yard. New brake pads, fork and dust seals and service bits arrived in the post today so hopefully it will be MOT'd within the week!

Current settings are - Standard pilot jets, 102.5 Mains, Float heights at 14.5mm, mixture screws 2.5 turns out.

One quick question, Ive heard that then centre two cylinders run hotter than the outer two and therefore have different sized main jets. Should I go one jet size down for the centre two cylinders?

Sorry for long post

Thanks again for everyones help