Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: b4cruz on May 07, 2005, 11:34:13 PM
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so I let it sit in the garage too long
everything is together and the batttery is charged
fresh clean gas
I just can't get it to turn over?
thje starter spins
but the enigine wont turn
anything obvious to look into first hand?
i think carbs sticking, then check for spark
anything else?
any secret suzuki b4 startup tricks
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Might be some crudded up gas. I just started mine up after sitting since Nov. I put in some Sta-bil before storage though so it just took some twists of the throttle and 30 secs of having the starter engage. Check for gunk in the carbs and you should be fine.
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so I let it sit in the garage too long
everything is together and the batttery is charged
fresh clean gas
I just can't get it to turn over?
thje starter spins
but the enigine wont turn
anything obvious to look into first hand?
i think carbs sticking, then check for spark
anything else?
any secret suzuki b4 startup tricks
I don't know why, but a good shake seems to ward of the gremlins. :lol:
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yeah some others said just tap the carbs and maybe you'll get lucky
so i tapped the carbs nice like
and it actually choked up some black smoke but wouldn't stay fired up
i think that is grounds for a full carb clean
but probably better to go ahead and get them professionally done
I'll get some new plugs too
as far as the gas its brand new 91 octane
i kept the tank off and empty and kreemed
so nothing got corroded or stale
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your carbs probably look like this inside
(http://homepage.eircom.net/~echomadman/carbgunk.JPG)
a good cleanout cant hurt them.
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your carbs probably look like this inside
(http://homepage.eircom.net/~echomadman/carbgunk.JPG)
a good cleanout cant hurt them.
If there were ever a time for the "Pukey" e-cons, that's it! Man, those are gross!
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I really wish I'd taken pics of mine before I had them cleaned...
They were worse than that. A -lot- worse than that.
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cleaned carbs
needles are moving
I saw plugs have nice spark
clean 91 octane new fresh gas
but still won't turn over
it may pop/put once but thats it
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Sounds like it might not be getting gas. Kinks in the fuel or vac lines? Do you have an in-line fuel filter that might be clogged? :headscratch:
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Did you fill your float bowls by setting your petcock to prime for 30 seconds??? How did the o-rings look in your carb???
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i cleaned them goodonly had a tiny bit of gunk on the bowls
the o-rings seemed good no cracks or mushes but i'm not an expert
the needles looked good too I think from what the
manual says they should look
also all my hoses are in correctly nothing pinched
although the tank's water avacuating hose always seems to get
slightly kinked no matter what position i put it in
so here's the situation now
after priming the tank and letting the
bowls get to a proper level -30 seconds or so
then put the choke either full or half way
then hold the throttle open
I start her up and if i hold the starter button in
it turns over almost sounds like its running with a few pops
and i get excited
however 1 second after i release the starter button
she fizzles down to nothing full stop
what am i doing wrong!
the engine is moving
i'm actually leaking/circulating oil now
i think i kinked my gasket on the left side
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Still sounds like no gas.
1. Try draining a float bowl to make sure you've got gas in it. Your fuel filter could be clogged up with rust.
2. Did you clean all the jet's and passages when you cleaned the carbs?
3. Are you getting compression?
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if i pull the fuel line off the feul-cock
gas should just spill right out correct?
thats not happening
the petcock looked fine and clean on top
where the little filter tubes sticked up into the tank
i'm wondering if there is rust clogged on the inside
is there any way to clean or test these?
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if i pull the fuel line off the feul-cock gas should just spill right out correct?
Incorrect... unless your petcock is selected to prime. The petcock requires engine vacuum to open it.
thats not happening. the petcock looked fine and clean on top
where the little filter tubes sticked up into the tank
i'm wondering if there is rust clogged on the inside
is there any way to clean or test these?
Drain the tank (or at least tilt it to a position that all the gas doesn't spill out when you do this), remove the petock from the tank and inspect it - and clean it, if needed.
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well the tank is clean and kreemed
and there is fuel in the float bowls
will a hand pump from a syphon
have enough power to suck fuel
out of the fuel cock?
the petcock is visually clean on the outside
the b400 has only on and reserve
so it is vacuum only
thanks for reminding me
i remember reading that
from an old post
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dont suck fuel out of the fuel outlet, apply a vacuum to the other nozzle on the petcock, it doesnt take much suction, you can test it with a bit of tubing and sucking with your mouth, remove the fuel line and apply suction to the vacuum pipe and see if fuel is flowing, it should stop quickly enough after you remove the suction
what do your plugs look like after attempting to start it? I read through the thread but i didnt see anywher that you tried new ones.
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so its fired now the plug wires were in wrong!
however i'm leaking oil really bad
the gaskets i changed are leaking the gaskets i left original are clean
i must have sraped the old one off too hard or something
i torqued everything down to what the manual said
but its really leaking bad & fast,
can i use high temp silocone over the gaskets?
i can't seem to get the exhaust pipes into the engine right either
they are leaking lots of smoke too
the bike runs but like a mess
i am so embarrased
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What did you use to scrape off the old gasket?
Did you clean the mating surface with a solvent before putting it on (cover and crank case)?
Did you begin tightening at the middle holes and work your way outward?
These two steps are important.
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did not use solvent but i did tighten around evenly like your supposed to
so there is no way to save this gasket huh?
gotta buy a new one and some solvent and redo it?
what solvent do you use?
looks like the gaskets were original from '91
so the stuff was really caked on took a long time to scrape off
no way I can use silicone huh?
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With the gaskets for these bikes you have to be sure not to gouge the mating surface when scraping and make sure the surfaces are very clean. You could use something like acetone, maybe laquer thinner, probably even WD40. You just want to put some on a rag and rub down the surface. Acetone and laquer thinner will evaporate quickly and clean metal well. I don't see any harm in giving some sealant a try. I would use something intended for engine assembly (something oil resistant). Try not to gob it on too heavy as you don't want it squirting out too much on the inside where it might break loose.
Anyone on the board see a problem with using a sealant?
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Any of the commercially available RTV (silicone) sealants rated for engine use will be fine... they'll also help if you have any small imperfections in the mating surfaces as they aren't as picky about a perfect surface as a paper gasket.
Think of it this way, if paper can be used, RTV can, too. Just don't get overzealous with it. If you get excessive squeezeout on the inside, and it breaks off, it can clog oil passages.
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So I was able to use the new paper gaskets.
I just cleaned the surfaces better with solvent.
I also tightened the main oil line.
And I replaced a bolt that was damaged.
However she won't stay running still.
At a cold start It fires up great, revs happy and stays on as long as its choked. It is smoking and the exhaust is smelly/rich and smokey/white.
After I turn it off and try to start it up again it acts completly different.
It won't rev at all. Almost seems like it is running on 2 cylinders. And it immediatly dies if you aren't holding the throttle open.
What could be preventing the bike from staying on and running smoothly?
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I just let it rev as long as i could to get it warm
Then I adjusted the idle speed screw so It would
match were I thought the carbs should be.
It ran better, but it still drops power randomly.
It won't rev up at all. you have to hold the throttle
wide open just to keep the rpms from droping to nothing
or else the engine dies.
Sometimes it will come back to life after a few minutes of
this power loss, but then back to nothing again.
Its really frustrating.
much to ramdom to take it out to ride yet.
Any ideas on what it could be?
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Random ideas: Carbs WAY out of synch? Intermittent connections in your plug wires (a common problem that can be fixed with a couple bucks worth of new wire)? Vacuum leaks?
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only the wires can be intermittent correct?
The coils and plugs can't sometimes
work and sometimes not work correct?
because it still can rev and
run really well
just not consistently
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Just about anything and everything electrical can be intermittant.
Spark plugs are generally very reliable - as long as they aren't fouled.
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so on the BSF400 the wires are part of the coils
you have to buy two and they are $80 each
my plugs are $8 each $11 for iridium
I checked the continuity of the wires and coils with
a fluke meter as instructed by the manual
the coils/wires seem ok, but they look stock 91
never changed.
should I go ahead and spend the $200+
anybody else out there know how long
our BFS400 coils/wires should last?
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so on the BSF400 the wires are part of the coils
Nope! They unscrew from the coils just like they do from the plug boots. Dennis Kirk sells a spool of several feet (maybe 5???) of 7mm wire for less than $10.
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wow!
thanks
i'll get some right now
my boots are a bit
messed up though
can I glue them ?
or maybe I should try to get some
newer boots from a salvage place?
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my local NAPA has 7mm wire for $.69 a foot!
woo hoo!
I only need 4 feet for the b4!
I'm gonna go for the all wire 7mm for better spark
they also sell standard carbon fiber for cars
but thats just for radio interference
that's so cool i found a replacement
rubber bottom for my boot too
i hope this works
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are iridium plugs really better?
or did i just waste money on the $2 markup?
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My coils popped at 25,000 Miles or 14 years. As for Platinum, Iridium, Silver, etc. Can you feel a difference? Do they last longer? IF you answered no twice, take note.
Andrew
PS Speaking of coils, can the Accel twin tower 2 coil kit for CDI work on 400M? Anybody?
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PS Speaking of coils, can the Accel twin tower 2 coil kit for CDI work on 400M? Anybody?
You want the non-CDI coils. The ignition is electronic, but not CDI.
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http://www.cyclewareables.com/pages/ignition_coils/accelignciol.gif
4 CYLINDER, 2 COIL KIT CW140403 $158 INDUCTIVE DISCHARGE 3.0 OHMS
thats about the same price as 2 OEM stock ones
what is the benifit of Accels?
or is it the same iridium vs regular issue?
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(http://www.cyclewareables.com/pages/ignition_coils/accelignciol.gif)
4 CYLINDER, 2 COIL KIT CW140403 $158 INDUCTIVE DISCHARGE 3.0 OHMS
thats about the same price as 2 OEM stock ones
what is the benifit of Accels?
or is it the same iridium vs regular issue?
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new wires
new plugs
new battery
new fuel
cleaned float bowls
new coolant seems to be circulating
there is plenty in the reservoir and its still green
idle screw turned to the front so butterflies are straight up
all connections clean no crimps or tugging
sometimes it starts on the first click
sometimes it wont start and needs a blip on the throttle
sometimes it starts and idles at 7000rpm and starts smoking
sometimes it starts and won't respond to any throttle input
just idles at 2000rpm until you kill the choke
sometimes the headlight doesn't work and the highbeam indicator
on the instrument panel stays on but no light
engine gets really hot quickly
its completely random
and its geting worse
what am i doing wrong!
:duh: :duh:
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You should get a healthier spark with a good set of aftermarket coils such as Accel or Dyna.
You said you only cleaned the float bowls? You may need to clean more than that.
Three main things cause overheating.
1. Cooling system problem (doesn't sound like the issue)
2. Timing (I believe the timing is fixed on the B4 like it is on it's bigger kin, so that's probably out, too.)
3. Lean carburation (can be caused by dirty passages in the carbs - can also cause engine speeds to hang)
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i should leave the carbs to an expert
maybe I screwed up the carbs
i checked the passages and they all seemed clean
everything moving like I assume it should
from what i saw in the picture in the manual
I'm at the end of my means anyway
well, i gotta find a local bike shop
at least i can just take the carbs
don't have to put the bike on a trailer
hopefully this will solve everything
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I hate to burst your bubble and add to your frustration but I'd take the whole bike. I think that at least part of your problem is carb sychro. The shop can't synch them off the bike.
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because I'm a lazy stuburn cheap bastard and I want to build a relationship with this local parts/service shop:
I'm leaving the bike at home, removing the carbs and having the local shop clean them and replace two screws that are getting stripped.
I'm purchasing a carb balancing tool there too.
When he's done with the carbs I'll take them back to my house
and balance them myself.
I plan to ask the shop to go with this modified stock setting:
110 main jet,and raise the needle up by moving the c clip down one groove. The stock location is the middle groove.This will get ride of the dreaded flat spot from 4000 RPM to 6500 RPM that we all know about.
(stolen from an old post from the old board, i forget who though)
Anyone think this plan of attack is wrong?
From what everyone thinks it can't be my black box/computer
or something electrical beacuse its starts and idles; it just runs funny.
Its got to be my carbs. They've been siitting for a long time now.
The manual explains the balancing pretty well. As long as I can get the bike to run with the clean carbs at 1700rpm then I can do the balancing.
If not i'll be renting a trailer.
:thanks: everyone for putting up with my blunders this far