Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: banditv on May 10, 2011, 05:23:58 AM
-
after about 2 weeks of commuting, the batt on the 250 dosnt have the guts to start the bike unless i pull the headlight fuse.
this seems to give it that wee bitt more voltage to light the fires.
at idle, its charging at just under 14 volts, give it a few revs, and it drops off to bout 12.8v
at 10000rpm its charging at close to 14v again.
i've taken the stator off and checked it, and its not shorted to ground and has continuity between phases.
have just put a new reg/rect in and eliminated a few plugs by soldering the connections.
the battery is brand new.
have tried giving an extra earth between motor and batt and reg/rect and batt with the tin tops jumper leads with no change.
i love this bike to death, but am scared to go for a ride of more than 160km because of this prob.
any ideas?
help would be awesome
cheers
banditv "lyndon"
-
Do you have a manual? and is the new reg/rec second hand or brand new? If the bike is giving 14V and then dropping to 12V if reved it would indicate a bad reg/rec, it should hold 14 to 15 V at 4000rpm.
-
its a brand new reg/rect.
about all i have left to try is getting rid of the plug for the reg/rect completely
-
I had 4 reg/recs go in three days. If it does'nt give over 14 V across the battery at 4000rpm then reg/rec would be bad.
It may be worth wiring it straight to the battery via a fuse, iv posted a link to the SV guys reg/rec mod, they use the same reg/rec as the B4 and it shows a wiring diagram for direct wiring. I ended up getting a CBR6 F008 reg/rec as the stock one keep going packing in.
http://eviltwinsbk.com/forumz/index.php?topic=276.0
-
http://forums.banditalley.net/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item55
Go through that flowchart. It should point you in the right direction. It's nailed it on the head a number of times for me, saved me literally thousands too.
-
my boss, who has 30 years experience as an auto electrian tells me that motorbike charging systems are arseholes at the best of times.
i have to check the AC voltage from the stator, which should be half of the charge voltage and amperage.
and if that is fine, its a matter of elemenating poor connections
-
The stator AC voltage should be higher than the charging voltage, not half. Could be up to 70 V on the 400 per the service manual.
-
yeah, i got that backwards, batt voltage should be half of stator voltage depending on current
-
Not half, battery voltages should never go above 15~15.5 V while charging. If it goes above that the regulator isn't working. Half of 70V would fry your battery, pop your light bulbs, cause nuclear reactions in your igniter, etc.
-
the stator output voltage can get that high, but thats what the zener diodes in the reg side are for. they only allow what ever voltage they are set at to flow through them. if the zeners are subjected to an abnormally high input voltage, they can get damaged and that is where the high batt voltage comes from.
-
Well if ya wanna get technical... The rectifier/regulator first rectifies the 3 stator inputs into pulsed DC. This level is filtered and compared against a voltage reference. The reference may contain a zener but not necessarily. If the level is too high it switches in SCR's on the 3 voltage lines that shunt to ground. On newer bikes MOSFET's are used which are much more efficient. The voltage should never be half the stator voltage if the stator is over ~30V. If it is then one or more of the SCR's is blown. They are cheap but the circuits are embedded in epoxy so difficult to change one part.
-
i measured the ac voltage at the 3 plugs that come from the stator last night and found extremely low voltage, i.e 8 volts but also noticed that the crimp connections at those leads didnt look very nice, so is possible there is high resistance under load.
will take the bike to work tomorrow and solder all connections and run a new batt feed from the reg/rect to the batt as well as a new earth and see what happens.
-
banditv,
How are you making out with this?
Did you ever go through the charging fault flowchart I linked to above? I've had really good successes with it multiple times.
-
went and talked to the suzuki head mechanic in town, and found out that i'm measuring the ac voltage wrong.
am going to take the bike to work tomorrow and recheck it, but the mechanic seems to think its going to be a stator problem.
hope its not, as this bike that i bought for bout 1600 USD has turned into a 3000USD bike.
tried the flow chart, but to no avail.
-
Wow,.. that's really weird. I've never seen that flowchart fail before.
I'm sure it happens, but where did it fail? Maybe that'll give us a touch off point. We'll know what we don't have to troubleshoot and what we still do.
How were you measuring the AC Voltage?
-
i was measuring the stator voltage with the reg/rect still connected and not open circuit.
tried to take the bike to work today but couldnt. so am taking it tomorrow.
will let you all know how i go
-
i was measuring the stator voltage with the reg/rect still connected and not open circuit.
tried to take the bike to work today but couldnt. so am taking it tomorrow.
will let you all know how i go
Oh yeah,.. I'm pretty sure that the flowchart says to disconnect it before measuring it too.
Good luck tomorrow then!
-
i didnt see the flow chart say disconnect the stator from the reg/rect, but i could of missed it.
thats about the only thing left to test now, other than a new rotor.
to sum up
the batt is new
the reg/rect is new
the stator is not to ground, looking like its been hot and has 0.9 ohms resistance between phases
the connections between the stator and reg/rect are new
there is no voltage drop on either + or - sides of the system
when i had the stator off the bike, i checked the magnet strength and all 6 will hold on to a 12 inch cresent no probs.
and even tho the bike has had a low side on the left hand side, the magnets are all intact
-
In section B (Section D does not apply to us) it says
Stop the engine. Disconnect the wires coming from the stator. These are usually 3 YELLOW (or WHITE = Yamaha) wires. Switch the multimeter to Ohms, the lowest range on the meter. Measure the resistance between all three wires coming from the stator, so you need to take three readings.
That's where you should have disconnected the RR from the stator.
Because there's no test for the rotor specifically (in the case of the Bandit 400 anyway - bikes with the "car-type" RRs seem to have that test) on the flowchart, I wonder if it's built into something else... like the stator/ generator / etc.
Section B is going to be very important to you then. .9 Ohms is within range if I'm reading you right, and you measured where I think you did.
-
thats how i tested the stator resistance, and have since learned that i should have started the bike and checked the ac voltage while i had it disconnected.
will find out in an hour or so where i stand.
am really hoping its just a reg/rect thats faulty. a stator is way to expensive.
and i'd be able to send the reg/rect back as a warranty job
-
Correct, that's the test 2 steps below the resistance test. Still in section B.
It tells you to switch to AC, start the bike, rev to 5000rpm and then how to test.
Switch the multimeter AC-Voltage (Range at least to 100 Vac). Make sure you
DON'T switch it to DC-Voltage (=DCV or Vdc). Connect the multimeter leads
between two of the three YELLOW (or WHITE = Yamaha) wires coming from
the stator. Start the engine and rev it up to app. 5000rpm. Check the reading
on the meter. Switch one of the multimeter leads to another YELLOW (or
WHITE) wire and check the reading again. Switch the other multimeter-lead to
another YELLOW (or WHITE) wire, and check the reading again.
-
i must of miss read that .
but anyhoo, just checked the ac voltage correctly and its good as. 27volts at idle and ramping up to 70 plus at 5 or 6 k.
am now going to wire the stator directly to the RR and wire the RR outputs directly to the batt to eliminate faulty wiring in the bikes loom, even though i have no voltage drops on either side.
if that fails to make a diff, i can prob throw the brand new RR back at the supplier
-
Run through the test of the RR in the flowchart? It should tell you if there's a problem with the RR.
-
its incredibly hard to say this but...
my name is lyndon, and i'm an alcoholic.
-
got it sorted today
the RR was a bad one. got the new warranty one today, rewired the whole charging system from stator leads to battery and she's rock solid 14.5 volts from just off idle , only dropping below 14 volts to 13.9 at idle.
sorted :thumb:
now i can go for a decent ride in the weekend. sweet!
-
I did say it would be the RR, good to hear you got a fix. :congrats:
-
Yay!! Congrats!!
-
I did say it would be the RR, good to hear you got a fix. :congrats:
i was thinking that since i put a brand new on on it, that much should have been fine. but i was wrong.
having a closer look at the new bad R/R, the three stator lead inputs were looking rather overheated at the R/R.
must have a short inside, and i'm prob lucky it didnt damage the stator.
now just want to find out if rgv front end and shock fit the thing .
-
I always test the RRs before I put them on. I don't trust most electric or electronic devices. I think that comes from a couple of places: I'm in IT, so I've seen a multitude of failures out of the box in my career, and I'm probably paranoid, because I was left stranded because of an RR failure. For a while there, testing the RR (and the rest of the charging system) was part of my regular maintenance. :annoy: