Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: GooseMan on June 18, 2007, 11:23:05 AM
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OK gang....I think I am going to attempt to check my valve clearances myself. Yeah....I know...this coming from the guy who cant seem to install simple brake pads, or remove the tank.... :lol:
I got quoted $300 for the valve job, and I beleive that I can actually perform this task myself DAMMIT!!!
I have the full Suzuki manual, and it seems pretty straight-forward...but, as usual, I got some questions...
-Will I need a new valve cover gasket? Or can I use that liquid gasket sealant?
-It says to turn the crank so that the valves line up correctly...how do I do this? I assume I can just leave it in gear and turn the back wheel.....
-Do I have to remove the radiator?
-Do I need any special tools?
-How likely is it that I'll screw this up? :lol: Maybe I should just call the mechanic.... :duh:
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First you have to remove the tank, coils, then drain the coolant, then remove the radiator and Thermostat housing. Then you can remove the valve cover. Next you need to unscrew that plug on the right hand side of the engine its got a huge slot. This reveals a 17mm bolt which you use to turn the engine over (only ever turn this clockwise). Now just line up the slots on the cams. And adjust the clearances as it tells you in the manual. Next time i do mine il do a photo guide on how to do it.
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I got quoted $300 for the valve job, and I beleive that I can actually perform this task myself DAMMIT!!!
There's no reason that you can't do this yourself, if you take your time, and follow the instructions.
-Will I need a new valve cover gasket? Or can I use that liquid gasket sealant?
The gasket is reusable if it's not pinched or otherwise damaged.
-It says to turn the crank so that the valves line up correctly...how do I do this? I assume I can just leave it in gear and turn the back wheel.....
This one is better answered by someone else. I don't remember what was done the second time we adjusted the valves. The first time, the engine was not in the bike, so that's a totally different ballpark.
This link should be of some use though:
http://www.dansmc.com/valveclearence.htm
-Do I have to remove the radiator?
No,... does it tell you to in the service manual?
-Do I need any special tools?
Metric feeler gauge,... and too loose is better than too tight btw...
-How likely is it that I'll screw this up? :lol: Maybe I should just call the mechanic.... :duh:
Like I said, go slow, pay attention. If anything frustrates you, step back, don't keep working on it. Come ask questions. Do you have any friends that work on bikes that can come and watch over your shoulder?
The one gotcha that we found was that when you take the valve cover off, there's a bunch of locator "dowels" (they actually are about the size of a small socket) that help you put the valve cover on straight. These sit into recesses on the piece that you're removing the valve cover from, but sometimes -can- come up with the valve cover instead. However, they are loose fit, so, if you're unlucky, you can find them tumbling down inside the engine. Ours required the removal of one of the oil lines to get at, but not full disassembly.
We're not the only one's either: http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=2169
If you're really unsure of your ability, here's something else you can try. Ask for a quote if you bring the bike to them already torn down. Load it into the back of a pickup truck with the tank, seat and other bits off, so all they have to do is take the valve cover off, adjust and reassemble. Then you take it back home and assemble the rest ( or do it in the parking lot.)
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I got quoted $300 for the valve job, and I believe that I can actually perform this task myself DAMMIT!!!
There's no reason that you can't do this yourself, if you take your time, and follow the instructions.
-Will I need a new valve cover gasket? Or can I use that liquid gasket sealant?
The gasket is reusable if it's not pinched or otherwise damaged. Or hard as a rock
-It says to turn the crank so that the valves line up correctly...how do I do this? I assume I can just leave it in gear and turn the back wheel.....
This one is better answered by someone else. I don't remember what was done the second time we adjusted the valves. The first time, the engine was not in the bike, so that's a totally different ballpark. Simply stated if the cam lobe highest point is facing away from the pad it rubs on then you can adjust that valve :stickpoke:
This link should be of some use though:
http://www.dansmc.com/valveclearence.htm
-Do I have to remove the radiator?
No,... does it tell you to in the service manual?
Just remove the bottom bolts so you can move it forward a bit . With it off its a lot nicer to look at things though.
-Do I need any special tools?
Metric feeler gauge,... and too loose is better than too tight btw... In the middle is the best slight drag!
-How likely is it that I'll screw this up? :lol: Maybe I should just call the mechanic.... :duh:
Like I said, go slow, pay attention. If anything frustrates you, step back, don't keep working on it. Come ask questions. Do you have any friends that work on bikes that can come and watch over your shoulder?
Agreed
The one gotcha that we found was that when you take the valve cover off, there's a bunch of locator "dowels" (they actually are about the size of a small socket) that help you put the valve cover on straight. These sit into recesses on the piece that you're removing the valve cover from, but sometimes -can- come up with the valve cover instead. However, they are loose fit, so, if you're unlucky, you can find them tumbling down inside the engine. Ours required the removal of one of the oil lines to get at, but not full dis-assembly.
I through these away because of this reason none needed part in my book the moons help it line up and i don't need it falling down my cam chain hole. But i have my valve cover off alot .
We're not the only one's either: http://forums.banditalley.net/viewtopic.php?t=2169
If you're really unsure of your ability, here's something else you can try. Ask for a quote if you bring the bike to them already torn down. Load it into the back of a pickup truck with the tank, seat and other bits off, so all they have to do is take the valve cover off, adjust and reassemble. Then you take it back home and assemble the rest ( or do it in the parking lot.)
cheers
jay
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You don't need to pull the access plate to turn the crank over, just tap the starter switch lightly to turn the whole shebang. If you bike likes to start at the slightest touch then 1) you're lucky :roll: and 2) pull the plug wires.
Also, you don't need to touch the radiator at all to get the valve cover out, though it probably makes it easier. It just takes a little careful jockeying of the valve cover to get it through the frame. But you *do* need to pull the cooling system cap/thermo housing assembly.
Once you've done the job a couple times its really pretty easy. If you focused and have no other problems come up, you can pull it all, adjust the valves and put it back together in about an hour. But I've done it a few times :wink:
Also, if you've had to make any real adjustments, then a carb sync is in order.
Tools: you need an 8mm box end (better than open end, IMO) wrench and you need this little gadget: take a standard #2 SQUARE-DRIVE sheetrock screw and twist it into the end of a piece of broom handle or other type of thing you can hold onto. It makes a great tool for working the square valve stem adjuster. Then you use the 8mm to loosen the locknut. use themakeshift tool in one hand and the feeler gauge inthe other to set the clearance. Then without moving the makeshift adjusting tool, tighten up the 8mm again and you're set.
A
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If you've got a centerstand or rear wheel pit stand, you can turn the motor over by putting the gearbox in 5th or 6th and turning the rear wheel by hand.
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If you've got a centerstand or rear wheel pit stand, you can turn the motor over by putting the gearbox in 5th or 6th and turning the rear wheel by hand.
Unless it's been removed, all B4s should have centerstands. :wink:
I can't recall off the top of my head, but either the starter trick, or the back wheel was rotated for Dita's valve adjustment. Both seem very familiar to me.
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You don't need to pull the access plate to turn the crank over, just tap the starter switch lightly to turn the whole shebang. If you bike likes to start at the slightest touch then 1) you're lucky :roll: and 2) pull the plug wires. Pull all plug wires and plug but after you drain you coolant or you'll have a mess in your plug holes i say pull plugs because you need to ground you plugs as not to burn up cdi or i un plug mine or un plug the coil wires.Also, you don't need to touch the radiator at all to get the valve cover out, though it probably makes it easier. It just takes a little careful jockeying of the valve cover to get it through the frame. But you *do* need to pull the cooling system cap/thermo housing assembly.
Once you've done the job a couple times its really pretty easy. If you focused and have no other problems come up, you can pull it all, adjust the valves and put it back together in about an hour. But I've done it a few times :wink:
Also, if you've had to make any real adjustments, then a carb sync is in order.
Tools: you need an 8mm box end (better than open end, IMO) wrench and you need this little gadget: take a standard #2 SQUARE-DRIVE sheetrock screw and twist it into the end of a piece of broom handle or other type of thing you can hold onto. It makes a great tool for working the square valve stem adjuster. Then you use the 8mm to loosen the locknut. use themakeshift tool in one hand and the feeler gauge inthe other to set the clearance. Then without moving the makeshift adjusting tool, tighten up the 8mm again and you're set.
A
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Oh...so the adjusment screw for the valves is like a square shape (male)?? Interesting....
And these little dowel pins sound like a bitch! I'm soooooooo gonna lose one in the engine! :duh: Better keep a magnet handy...
Thanks for everything so far guys! Gonna bring the bike to my office/warehouse tonite (I have about 1000 sq/ft of warehouse space...nice and quiet, clean, and no neighboors around to bother me. Living in a condo/apt SUCKS when working on stuff!)
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OK! Everything has been disassembled! So far, so good! Got the valve cover off...now I just need the feeler gauges...so I'll do that tomorrow.
Some questions:
-I need to turn the crank. I have the tranny in neutral, and I tried to shift up to 6th, but it doesnt seem to change...how can I change gears when the engine isnt running? Or...how to turn the crank? I guess you take off that small slotted cover on the right hand side of the engine, right? How do you get that off? Or should I just use the starter....
-I now see the valves and the valve adjustment screws. I'm still unsure as to what exactly I'm measuring...but I'll look more into it tomorrow when I have the camshafts pointing the correct ways, it'll probably become more obvious.
-Is there anything else I should clean/adjust/check while I'm in there?
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-I need to turn the crank. I have the tranny in neutral, and I tried to shift up to 6th, but it doesnt seem to change...how can I change gears when the engine isnt running? Or...how to turn the crank? I guess you take off that small slotted cover on the right hand side of the engine, right? How do you get that off? Or should I just use the starter....
you should be able to change gears, just give the rear tire some spin so the gear sprockets move out of each others way then try again.
btw. remove the sparkplugs to lose compression and make it alot easier to rotate the rear wheel.
you can even do it in 1st gear, but 6th gear is more precise..
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To remove that slotted cover and turn the engine the way the manual says you need some big flat thing. I used a chisel which fitted into the gap well and then put an adjustable on the chisel to turn it.
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Brave Gooseman sez:
I now see the valves and the valve adjustment screws. I'm still unsure as to what exactly I'm measuring...but I'll look more into it tomorrow when I have the camshafts pointing the correct ways, it'll probably become more obvious.
Where the rocker arm touches the top of the valve (the valve is the spring wrapped thingy :lol: ) is a screw adjuster with a locknut. Its the screw with the male square end. If you slide a feeler gauge down that screw below the rocker arm, you'll find a crack where the adjuster meets the top of the valve stem. That's where you measure.
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I kinda figured it out :lol: :duh:
BTW, heres an excellent pic describing what to measure exactly....THIS is what I was looking for!
(http://www.izook.com/tech/shoptips/valves/images/valves5.gif)
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OK! I'm in the middle of doing the adjustments as per what the manual says...but I notice its impossible to get the two camshafts aligned 100% like the manual states (with the notches facing inwards...and then the notches facing outwards). I cant seem to crank the engine to get the two notches EXACTLY like in the manual...but mostly so.... It seems if I turn the crank to get one perfectly straight, the other is moving away...
Is this OK?
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I don't know about the B4, but on the 600/1200, they won't be EXACT, but pretty darn close. If they aren't, your cam timing is off either intentionally (slotted or different than OEM cam sprockets), or not (slack chain, jumped a tooth).
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theyre pretty close.....I guess. How can I tell if my timing is off for sure? The engine seems to run perfectly fine....
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then its fine
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OK! Shes all back together! Checked and re-checked the valve clearances before putting back the valve cover. Also flushed the old coolant (since I took the rad off anyway)....is coolant supposed to be black?! :shock:
Put the tank back on (one thing I noticed when I took the tank off the first time...theres an outlet for a hose for water in the tank...mine doesnt seem to have a hose!)....pushed the starter....she started up right away!
:clap: :congrats: :clap: :congrats: hhehee
So far...didnt see any leaks, or hear strange noises. I think I can hear the valves ticking slightly...and I understand that is a good thing. It's probably all in my head.
I'll take it for a little test ride later tonite...hopefully it doesnt blow up on me!!!
Anyway, THANKS FOR EVERYTHING GANG!
I really appreciate it. I know I ask a lot of dumb questions..but hey, its my first bike! :motorsmile:
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:congrats: :clap: :motorsmile:
way to go. Its not really a difficult or complicated job, just a little intimidating the first time.
And no, coolant should not be black =-o
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Yep,
Intimidating the first time, but now you are pro :clap:
One of my other rides is a Ninja250, just a twin, but valve adjusts are a good degree more dificult.
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Yeah - I remember mine not lining up 100% too.
BTW - be really careful retightening the valve cover bolts. Make sure the bolts and holes are clean and as oil free as possible and use a torque wrench. You can easily burn up the money saved doing it yourself in machinist bills getting heli-coils installed in the caps.... or so I've heard. I have no idea how someone could gorrilla those bolts and strip the caps. None! :duh: