Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: El Dopa on July 13, 2007, 07:53:50 AM
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Can someone explain to me in words of one syllable or less the differences between all the upgrade carb styles, and what works, what works best, and what doesn't work at all.
Keihin CR's - roundslides? sidedraft?
Keihin FCR's - flatsides? downdrafts?
I thought that downdrafts/FCR's didn't work on the B4.
But having done a quick search, it seems that Jay sold his racing CR's and upgraded to a set of 33mm FCR's.
I'm confused.......
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fcr make down drafts and flat slide down drafts lay horizontal flat slides lay vertical like our carbs down drafts are for like zx, fzr , cbr, new gsxr
cr's are usually called smooth bores older style round slides still mechanical racing carbs, no diaphragms you twist the throttle thats what you get if jetting right they work fine but they have no accelerator pump like the fcr or tmr's so you crack the gas you may have to wait or let off if the jetting isn't right on the bottom on fcr's you hit the gas they go instantly
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so there are four fcr styles?
down drafts,
flat slide down drafts,
lay horizontal flat slides,
lay vertical flat slides (like the gsf400 carbs).
straight downdrafts are for e.g. - zx, fzr , cbr, new gsxr.
and the cr's are round slides, which are good, but because they don't have a pump, they aren't as good as fcr's (and can bog)?
"fcr's you hit the gas they go instantly" - because they have the pump, and are therefore preferable?
so what I'm looking for is a set of 33mm vertical flatsides?
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so there are four fcr styles?
down drafts, (1)
flat slide down drafts, (same as number 1)
lay horizontal flat slides, (same as 1 and 2)
lay vertical flat slides (like the gsf400 carbs).
straight downdrafts are for e.g. - zx, fzr , cbr, new gsxr.
and the cr's are round slides, which are good, but because they don't have a pump, they aren't as good as fcr's (and can bog)? (cheaper and sold here)
"fcr's you hit the gas they go instantly" - because they have the pump, and are therefore preferable? These are what drag racers used in the beginning simple jettingso what I'm looking for is a set of 33mm vertical flatslides?
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so there are four fcr styles?
down drafts, (1)
flat slide down drafts, (same as number 1)
lay horizontal flat slides, (same as 1 and 2)
lay vertical flat slides (like the gsf400 carbs).
straight downdrafts are for e.g. - zx, fzr , cbr, new gsxr.
and the cr's are round slides, which are good, but because they don't have a pump, they aren't as good as fcr's (and can bog)? (cheaper and sold here)
"fcr's you hit the gas they go instantly" - because they have the pump, and are therefore preferable? These are what drag racers used in the beginning simple jettingso what I'm looking for is a set of 33mm vertical flatslides?
OK, so armed with a bit more knowledge I made friends with Google...
On stock carbs, the slide or throttle plate isn't actually connected to the cables, so when you twist the grip it lifts the diaphragm mechanism, and the engine vacuum lifts the slide.
In contrast, on the FCR when you twist it you are lifting the slide directly. Plus the carb assembly includes a pump.
So the CR's are a jump up from the stock option. And the FCR's are a jump up from the CR's.
Is that correct?
Jay, are you selling CR's? How much?
And what was the bike your FCR's came from?
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sold the cr's to JC
bought fcr's for a xjr400 yamaha from japan cheap as chip fit right on $400 shipped to my door used had to buy new velocity stacks but also found those cheap on ebay
CR's when tunned are better than stock but when not right you cant beat the throttle response of CV (stock ) carbs
FCR's way better response than stock come from 28 -33 size
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Surely 33mm fcr's are going to give no more top end power than 33mm cv's?
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absolutely wrong :stickpoke: mechanical carbs are a different animal than CV carbs you usually go smaller with than stock with mechanical carbs most I have seen sold are 28mm and 31mm for the bandits and gsx's. I believe its the gsxr 400 a 1992 spII model that runs 35mm CV's so there's some food for thought they don't fit on a bandit or my gsxr but interesting to know that Suzuki put 35mm carbs on a 400 at one time for 1 year. I have also seen stock carbs bored out and had almost looked more into having it done on my stock carbs till i got the RS carbs. (That would give you a 34mm carb if you have stock 33's)Now they sell those through SUDCO the RS carbs and i would definitely buy them a size or two smaller due to not having the accelerator pump .
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Anyone got any idea if these would fit the gsf400?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270144683548&rd=1,1#ebayphotohosting
From an FZR400. Looks like the inlet trumpets are a bit damaged. Dunno how much difference that would make.
Measurements are:
from the center to center of the outside carb intake = 9.5" center to center of out side to carb next to it = 2.9" and center to center on the two inside carbs = 3.9" also they will slip in the carb mounts up to about 1 1/4 " deep.
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these are down draft im almost positive they wont work but hey if you want to try
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down draft also meaning the carbs can lay flat and still hold gas in the float bowl with out it draining right out of the carbs
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Downdraft carburetor:
A carburetor in which the air passes downward through the carburetor into the intake manifold.
Sidedraft carburetor:
A carburetor in which the air passes through the carburetor into the intake manifold in a horizontal plane. Contrasts with a downdraft carburetor.
Have got some pictures that show the differences. Will post them later.
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Alright, think I've cracked it. I'm posting this as a guide for anyone who is looking at a carb upgrade and wants to know what they're looking at on ebay, okshon or whatever.
Apart from the spacing, there are two things you need to look at.
1) A side view. From the side, does the carb assembly look like you could draw two lines through it, aligned perpendicular/90 degrees to one another? e.g. a first (horizontal) line through the air inlet/engine mount, and a second (vertical) line through the float bowl, crossing the first.
If these lines are at 90 degrees, you're looking at side drafts.
If the two line are NOT perpendicular - they're more like 45 degrees - you're looking at downdrafts, which won't work, so move along and keep looking.
2) Can you see down the throat of the air inlet? Is the throttle valve/slide visible? If it is visible, is it flat face on to you, or is it rounded? Flat, you're looking at a set of FCR's - flatsides - your search is over. Rounded, you're looking at CR's, which you may also find acceptable.
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(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3420/toshikun555img600x45011hx1.jpg)
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so what are those, Jay?
And:
What are these?
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n52808347
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i couldnt see yours but the ones i posted are 34 mm for a bandit 400 tmr's these are the ones that yosh makes a special kit for to turn them into tmr-mjn's and if you have them then you have the best available i have one step down wich is fcr's the tmr's are made by the other carb company
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for sale
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n52808347
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and another set
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m45996053
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these here these are the hot shit yosh carbs the best of the best i would give spare nuts for these
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e71900379
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these are what down drafts look like again these would be suited for a zxr 400 a fzr400 and a cbr400
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6631/downdraftsez3.jpg)
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i couldnt see yours but the ones i posted are 34 mm for a bandit 400 tmr's these are the ones that yosh makes a special kit for to turn them into tmr-mjn's and if you have them then you have the best available i have one step down wich is fcr's the tmr's are made by the other carb company
Link fixed now. I suspect they are downdrafts, but that would confirm what I posted above about the angles.
EDIT: no, it's the same auction as you one at the top of the page.
So they'd be suitable, then?
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yes and at around what i payed for mine. for the b250 guys ive seen sets sold for them using the 28mm ones
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yes and at around what i payed for mine.
Didn't you say you paid about US$400 all in?
They're currently listed at US$100......
How much did you end up paying in fees, shipping charges, etc?
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First they will never go for just $100 in the end they always go up!
b67135982
XJR400用FCRキャブレタージャンク
Photo Closed
31,500.00
Bid
36,735.00 37.00 Japan
10.00
World
70.00 Bank Fee
5.00
Misc.
0.00 Item Total
411.00
Amount Paid
411.00 0.00 dispatched
#1858
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First they will never go for just $100 in the end they always go up!
b67135982
XJR400用FCRキャブレタージャンク
Photo Closed
31,500.00
Bid
36,735.00 37.00 Japan
10.00
World
70.00 Bank Fee
5.00
Misc.
0.00 Item Total
411.00
Amount Paid
411.00 0.00 dispatched
#1858
Thanks. I see those ones have gone up to Y20,000 (US$180). Think I'll watch this lot and see what happens. good to know that the carbs from those bike fit, though. Opens up the options.
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they seem to be a bit slow on there and think that if you bid once and get beat that you wont bid again so i watch then hammer alot on at the end
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Jay, these the same as yours?
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b79937707
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yes sir plan to pay like 400
cheers
Jay
Anything cheeper is a steal :motorsmile:
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these are the best carbs a little big for stock i would run these with a big bore kit and for sure with the 465 kit, my 33mm FCR's are so crisp with with the big bore it like i bought street carbs 2 sizes smaller
these would have to be re racked to fit but would go on.
they are 36mm the gsxr 400 gk76a sp had 35 mm stock carbs (CV's)and the motor is real simaler to ours.
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e68999596
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do most fcr carbs have tps?
which is needed for the vvt bandits..
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no but it was offered on fcr's for a srad im sure you could re rack those if you can get them small enough to fit size wise like 35mm
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yes sir plan to pay like 400
cheers
Jay
Anything cheeper is a steal :motorsmile:
Do you think that broken hose (where the pen is pointing) will be a biggie?
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no tis a vent hose for like when you fall the fuel comes out of there lol good deal still
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http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m46741479
these are better
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e69347152
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http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f56504190
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d75578582
what a deal buy it now 30000 yen that what i payed
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k44169636
also being cheap the ones above have the adapters for mounting pod filters or your air box possibly.
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Keep posting them up, Jay. Sooner or later I'll manage to give 'she who controls the purse strings' the slip.
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how about these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MIKUNI-4-CARBURETOR-SETUP-FOR-KAWASAKI-KZ900-SAYS-33A_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35597QQihZ020QQitemZ300145328752QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
or these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mikuni-33-Smoothbore-racing-carbs-carburetors_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35597QQihZ011QQitemZ320151303208QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
btw im not bidding
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those are not flat-slides they are round-slides smooth-bores whatever you want to call them old racing carbs before flat-slides still OK but not as good as flat-slides if they still sold the accelerator pump kits for them they would be just as good. those are like the first set i had that i sold to JC from here speaking of him where is he?
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Suzuki-GSXR-750-Slab-side-Mikuni-Flat-slide-carbs_W0QQitemZ320152025422QQihZ011QQcategoryZ10534QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem would these 36mm's fit on?
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they might but you better have some motor
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2 days left gonna be a steal
http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page3.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c156411639
33mm like mine excellerator pump no throttle lag
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bet these dont go for more
little dirty fcr 33mm carbs (http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d77617899)
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These fit, or too big?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=117677894&permanent=0
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Right size but you might have to adjust the spacings.
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bandit max is right but that would require some new rods being made for the linkage but i will tell you what these go right on if you know anyone that has a newer gsxr 400 a gk76a that is what they fit i just sold a set like this and a they are way wider than my fcr 33's
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Just thought i would post picks of Gary's new carbs for his race bike. in 32mm size
:congrats:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/816/garyscarbszi3.jpg)
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damn those are some sweet carbs :congrats:
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Yessssssss sireeeeeeeee. :motorsmile: They were never on a bike. They are new.
Thanks to Jay for hooking me up. He is the best. Next stop is a GSXR 400 swing arm and this for the front wheel,
(http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Chaparral/assets/product_images/3612798B.jpg)
then one of these,
(http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/images/3GSXR71C.JPG)
(http://www.zerogravity-racing.com/sportbikes/images/photo_bank/101/23-101-02.jpg)
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man i love my prolites and would not ride with out them second set ive owned on 2 different bikes
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I just wanted to mention that there are a bunch of fcr 33 mm race carbs on okshon right now and it would be a good time to by some as the prices will reflect the quantity of them on there.
cheers
Jay
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like these fcr 33 mm xjr carbs that bolted right to my race bike with no jet changes needed (http://www.okshon.com/v.cgi?YYurl=http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k45002766)
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jay is tha man!!!
now someone go buy those carbs :bandit:
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I think Jay is a shop-a-holic. My grandmother would have loved him. :bigok:
G
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I love to spend money especially when its not mine! :stickpoke:
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Big update on carbs the guy that i bought gary's brand new carbs from has 2 more sets 32mm and can be anyones shipped to their door for $500 again they are brand new.
cheers
Jay
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Big update on carbs the guy that i bought gary's brand new carbs from has 2 more sets 32mm and can be anyones shipped to their door for $500 again they are brand new.
cheers
Jay
The fine print
Offer not available to anyone who races in Canada :monkeymoon:
G
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Big update on carbs the guy that i bought gary's brand new carbs from has 2 more sets 32mm and can be anyones shipped to their door for $500 again they are brand new.
cheers
Jay
1) Do these come with everything you need to bolt up and go (cables, pumps and whatnot)? Any mods needed?
2) Is there any appreciable difference between the sizes/types? 32mm, 33mm etc.
I've more or less decided to sell one toy to get the cash to turn to other one into a weapon.
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Sorry to go a little off topic, ladies and gentlemen, just a quick question for Jay. Were you offering a deal last winter for people to send you there carbs and you'd do a total rebuild? If so, same deal this winter? i think my floats are sticking er sumthin' and it'd be cool if i could get someone competent (i.e. not me) to dig into it. i'd mail ya' some beer money of course. :bandit:
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Big update on carbs the guy that i bought gary's brand new carbs from has 2 more sets 32mm and can be anyones shipped to their door for $500 again they are brand new.
cheers
Jay
1) Do these come with everything you need to bolt up and go (cables, pumps and whatnot)? Any mods needed?
2) Is there any appreciable difference between the sizes/types? 32mm, 33mm etc.
I've more or less decided to sell one toy to get the cash to turn to other one into a weapon.
with the 32 you would get some better mid range not as much top as mine but hardly noticable differences. yes they come with all you need. you could run your stock throttle set up, but they do recomend a push pull throttle set up, but that would be your choice. ive ran with that throttle set up and with out. you just plug and play so to say.
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Sorry to go a little off topic, ladies and gentlemen, just a quick question for Jay. Were you offering a deal last winter for people to send you there carbs and you'd do a total rebuild? If so, same deal this winter? i think my floats are sticking er sumthin' and it'd be cool if i could get someone competent (i.e. not me) to dig into it. i'd mail ya' some beer money of course. :bandit:
Yea wasnt is something like pay for parts (carb rebuild kit= $75.00) and shipping both ways and i will send them right back
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(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3420/toshikun555img600x45011hx1.jpg)
Would these fit on my VV bike and if so could I just put them on my bike? Where do I get them ya think? Don't suppose you could source me a set?
Also, would it work with the stock pipe(might be getting this and researching what can to put on later for a can. Any ideas? http://www.banditmaniashop.co.uk/bandit-gsf400-stainless-headers-and-link-pipe-for-2-inch-slip-on-cans-827-p.asp ) and before I get a big bore kit?
I'll be trying my best to clean my little bandit up including polishing up all the frame, paint, engine etc. 100%....
I'm not sure how or what to do exactly but I know I want to restore it somehow. I'll start with carbs since mine have been iffy for awhile.
Thanks JAY!!!
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Just thought i would post picks of Gary's new carbs for his race bike. in 32mm size
:congrats:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/816/garyscarbszi3.jpg)
How can i find info about these babies???
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(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3420/toshikun555img600x45011hx1.jpg)
Would these fit on my VV bike and if so could I just put them on my bike?
If they are from a 400 they will fit, if they are from a bigger capacity bike you would need to rerack the carbs to narrow the fit.
Just thought i would post picks of Gary's new carbs for his race bike. in 32mm size
:congrats:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/816/garyscarbszi3.jpg)
How can i find info about these babies???
You get them from the japaniese okshon site, they will bid on your behalf.
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UM YUMMY accelerator pumps
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Just thought i would post picks of Gary's new carbs for his race bike. in 32mm size
:congrats:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/816/garyscarbszi3.jpg)
How can i find info about these babies???
You get them from the japaniese okshon site, they They??who is they?? will bid on your behalf.
Hey thanks for reply but i need info like hp gain,price etc!
(i am new to motorcycles so any further mechanical detail i couldn't understand it!)
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2-10hp $300-1000
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Does this bump or start new?
Why do the Mikuni's have a choke and the Keihin FCR's do not?
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You can buy the Mikuni's with or without a choke, they supply a choke as a road option but the TMR's are really a race carb same as the FCR's.
Most race bikes are set up to run at high rpm and so tend to need throttle to run, 3000rpm tickover.
The flatslide smooth bore carbs will flow between 5 and 10% more air/fuel at the top, BUT, the slide is direct to the throttle cable (no CV) and can be hard work on a road going bike when you use lots of part throttle.