Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: Cyanide on October 14, 2007, 10:01:18 AM
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I was on my way out to pick my gf up from college the other day when I heard an alarming rattling sound at 70mph. I slowed down but it kept getting worse before eventually cutting out. I got it started again but there was a huge ratting coming from the right side of the engine every time I touched the throttle, so I concluded that something had come loose/snapped off inside and called for a tow home.
I've just finished taking the engine covers off today. I've got both sides, the top and the oil filter off. I can't find anything loose in the bottom so far nor can I see anything missing that'd indicate something fallen off.
I'm getting rather worried as at the moment it's my only transport and as I'm moving to a flat with no garage in 2 weeks I'm really short on time, money and somewhere to store the damned thing while it's in pieces.
Does anyone have any ideas on whats the most likely thing to have come loose and how I can sort it quickly, ideally without having to take the whole engine out :sad:
Thanks guys
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:shock: rattling as in what , there are many rattles! cam chain , brocken rocker arm, rod knocking, bent valve hard to say mate let me know if i can help you out in anyway
cheers
jay
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also how many miles
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Sorry, should have been more specific :duh:
It's a 1991 400cc with around 37k miles.
It sounds like there's a lump of metal in the bottom of the engine clanging about as it's hit by moving parts in the engine.
Hope that's a bit clearer :lol:
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i would say drain the oil and look in the pan you drained it into and see what you see then pull the oil pan off the bike, you say you have the side covers off and you didnt see anything loose have you grabbed the clutch basket and tried to shake that?
cheers
jay
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Sounds like a rod went.
Do you stay consistant with your oil level checks and oil changes?
37K isnt a ridiculous number of miles,but its up there, for a little engine like ours.If the knocking and rattling was enough to stop the engine from running,its probably going to be serious.Check the oil for metal flakes and chunks,then pull the oilpan as racer suggested.
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Hey Cyanide
Any loud rattle, knock or banging from the engine is likely something serious. Anything that comes loose, or falls off, is going to do some additional damage.
As the guys said, drain the oil and look for any metal particles, remove the right clutch cover and look at the clutch and primary drive gears for any damage.
Then go from there... :sad:
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Well I've drained the oil and there was nothing in there and all the gears look in tact... but when I got a magnet on a stick and shoved it underneath the cogs it came back with small flakes of metal on it.
Am I going to have to whip the engine out to find out what's going on? If so does anyone fancy buying a project bike? :sad:
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I've just taken the sump off and in the bottom were these chucks of orange fibre along with a large amount of metal flakes. Given the aparent circular shape of the fibre I'm thinking something to do with the pistons?
(http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.294335d260.jpg) (http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?294335d260.jpg)
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Hmm......no fiber or nylon parts on the pistons,far as I know.
There are plenty of round objects inside an engine,so those could be from anything.....trans or clutch bushings, maybe.Im sure someone with experience opening up the B4 engine will ID those pieces quickly.
If you have access to the bottom of the connecting rods from the sump,try to give each of them a wiggle up and down and side to side.A failed rod would be obvious,as there would be very large parts scattered around the sump.But a spun lower rod bearing will give the same loud clanking,and only produce shavings and some bits of metal,unlike the catastrophic failure of a broken rod.
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you know i cant put my finger on that, but the the only thing that comes to mind is the oil pump gear behind the clutch basket. also while your at it take the oil pick up screen off and see what is stuck to that!
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Well,if the oilpump gear failed,that'd surely cause the big end to self destruct.......but youd also get an oil light on the dash as soon as the pressure was gone.
Cyanide,did you happen to notice if the red oil light ever lit up?
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looks like gasket paper to me.
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you would see alot of brass if the big end went, could be gasket paper, Max. Your sure its fiber? Your clutch basket looks all intact? Is the red light not a low oil light and not a oil pressure light, i only say because some times when you start and stop they come on when they are going bad!
You know what that look like to me, it just hit me part of your fly wheel the coating that holds the magnets. Is the fly wheel loose would take a lot to wiggle it with the magnetic resistance and all, worth a shot.
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It's definitely some kind of fibre/plastic/resin, hard to tell exactly what as there's not much of it.
Well I've taken another look around at the parts I can get to with the top, sides and sump off.
The cam chain looks fine and all the valves move when the engine's rotated manually, although there is a loose spot part way round when cranking.
I can't see anything out of the ordinary in there, there's nothing missing or broken as far as I can see except the metal in the sump.
There wasn't an oil light on when it went, the oil that came out was around 2.3l, which is about right. There was also no water in the oil and the coolant was clean so I reckon the head gaskets fine.
I'm thinking of ringing my insurance company tomorrow to see if my fully comp cover includes catastrophic engine failure and if not I'll have to cancel it and either find somewhere to lock the bike up till I can fix it (next year sometime) or see if I can sell it to someone who's got time to do it themselves.
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insurance hardly ever covers engine failure although if it was in a small fire that only burnt the engine out it may payout but for what a bandits worth its not really a viable repair
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On my bike anyways,the oil light is definately pressure.The sender is threaded into the pressurized oil galley near the filter housing,well above the oil level.If it were an oil level sensor,it would be in the sump,near the minimum safe oil line.
Good thinking on the generator,Jay.The magnet resin is plasticey, and that color.And it definately would make a horrendous noise if the rotor/magnets started to hit the stator.....not to mention the metal flakes that would be produced.
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On my bike anyways,the oil light is definately pressure.The sender is threaded into the pressurized oil galley near the filter housing,well above the oil level.If it were an oil level sensor,it would be in the sump,near the minimum safe oil line.
yes correct Im sorry i had taken mine out and hooked a temp switch there hooked to a daytona dig. temp. gauge.
Good thinking on the generator,Jay.The magnet resin is plasticey, and that color.And it definately would make a horrendous noise if the rotor/magnets started to hit the stator.....not to mention the metal flakes that would be produced.
Thanks i almost feel off the seat trying to figure out what all was plastic and that color[/quote]
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So if it is the generator casing how would I check it and what would this mean for my engine? :sad:
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If it is the gen,then you got lucky since thats a relatively external part of the engine.If you already pulled the engine side covers,you should be able to determine if the rotor has come loose or if there are any other problems in that area.At the worst,you can buy/rent a puller to pop the rotor off and inspect inside the generator to see if anything is amiss.There is another thread nearby thats covering the same topic,I believe Duane is the author.....
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its behind the clutch cover
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I still can't see anything out of place or damaged :shock:
Here's a couple more pics of what I've got so far, If anyone could point me in the right direction it'd be appreciated :duh:
(http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.9580ceb67b.jpg) (http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?9580ceb67b.jpg)
(http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.8606d9b7cf.jpg) (http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?8606d9b7cf.jpg)
(http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.bb1b6f7aec.jpg) (http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?bb1b6f7aec.jpg)
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why is the screw on the flywheel all messed up?
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why is the screw on the flywheel all messed up?
I don't know, looks like someone's been at it with a hammer at some point but I can still get a socket on it
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Have you checked the cam chain tensioner yet?
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Have you checked the cam chain tensioner yet?
Where is it and how do I check it?
Sorry for sounding such a noob but I wonna make sure I get this right, I need my baby back!
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have you tried to see if the bolt is loose put rachet on it and try to take it off it takes a impact to get it off so if it comes off with a rachet that may be your problem
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Have you checked the cam chain tensioner yet?
Where is it and how do I check it?
Sorry for sounding such a noob but I wonna make sure I get this right, I need my baby back!
In the middle of the cylinder block under where the carbs would be!
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Wow,that flywheel bolt is BASHED!
Whoever was inside that engine last got way over-excited with the hammer/puller.The beating that thing took would probably be enough by itself, to break the magnets off of the rotor......dremel/file that sucker back down and get a socket on there.....prefferably a six point.
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have you tried to see if the bolt is loose put rachet on it and try to take it off it takes a impact to get it off so if it comes off with a rachet that may be your problem
It just spins the whole thing when I put a rachet on it, there's no way it's going to come off
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a sound file would have been nice im helping this def kid jet his bike that way lol :stickpoke:
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Took at adjuster out, that's fine too. Really running out of ideas here :sad:
I'm thinking of just whipping the engine out and stripping it down completely but if I do that it'll mean no bike for 6 months as I haven't got the time to do it all in one go.
Would have taken a sound clip if I'd got anything to record it with :lol:
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I'm putting money on a spun rod bearing.