Bandit Alley
MODEL SPECIFIC => SUZUKI BANDIT 250 & 400 => Topic started by: Vanishing_Point on February 15, 2008, 12:10:36 PM
-
Hi guys. I have been lurking around the forum for a couple of weeks now and it seems like the best source of information concerning bandit 400's. On virtue of this I went out and bought one!
Here are some pics -
(http://i24.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/d5/bb/57dc_1.JPG)
(http://i24.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/d5/bb/5eea_1.JPG)
The guy I got it from moved up onto a B12 and left this one sitting in his shed for a few years, so it has no MOT. Obviously the battery is dead, though he did get it running and took it round the block a few times. This is my first bike (I have not passed my test yet, will do soon though) so I am not massively clued up on what to look out for. I used to race go-karts a few years ago however, so I would not say I am totally mechanically useless.
Really I am just looking for some advice on what to do next; I have ordered a new battery, oil, fork oil, fork seals and oil filter. Do you reckon the carbs need a good clean and the internals replaced? I imagine I also need to flush out the fuel and drain the oil. Anything else in general I should look out for?
Thanks in advance!
-
i would flush the radiator fluid to. and check the tires to make sure they are not cracking. i dont know if how much you read but rebuilding the carbs would be a good idea.. these bikes have super small carbs so they get gummed up really easily. to drain the fuel you have to take the little screw out on the fuel tap. because you then can move the lever twisty thing into the prime position. i might even change out the fuel line to.. but thats only if its bad condition. maybe recondition the inside of the tank as well? a inline fuel filter wouldn't hurt as well.
-
Congrats on your purchase, I love hearing stories just like yours. You're right the guys here are awesome!
Happy trails
-
The carbs probably need some sort of attention but to start, I'd drain all the gas, run some Seafoam or something like that through them, change the oil and filter, flush the coolant, make sure the tires are safe and learn to ride. From there, you'll figure out what else you need to do.
Very cool looking bike. Good luck!
-
Cheers guys. Getting the battery changed, the fuel flushed, giving it a good scrub and getting the bad boy running seems like the first thing I should do. After that, like Pitterb4 and kako have advised, I should know what else to do; probably giving the carbs a good seeing to!
I'm really excited tbh.......
-
I would add a couple of additional things:
- change and flush the brake fluid
- check the brake pads, front and rear
- carefully look at the brake lines and clutch cable
- check for any looseness in the steering head bearings and swingarm
congrats on your purchase, and welcome to the site.
-
Ok. I have installed a new battery and flushed the old fuel that was in the tank out (it came out looking pretty clear). I also bled the carbs and only the first few drops had a brown tinge, after that they ran clear. I put a gallon of new fuel in (enough?) and hit the starter switch......it started with the choke on! after about 30 seconds I turned the choke off and it idled at about 2k for a while BUT as soon as I twisted throttle the engine would die. i tried this several times and the result was the same. I tried turned the fuel valve onto reserve and normal, the result was the same. After a few steady idles it now refuses to start at all, starter motor seems strong and I know there is fuel going in.
Any suggestions? I have a new set of spark plugs waiting; would they set things right, or is it more likely the carbs that are the source of my woes?! I also have not changed the oil/filter yet. Thanks in advance!
-
Do your spark plugs and oil/filter. Whilst you've got the tank off to do the plugs also have a look in the airbox and clean the air filter.
-
You say this thing sat for a few years... my money is on the carbs needing a good cleaning. Even though you drained out gas that was pretty good looking, the passages are most likely gummed and causing you troubles.
-
Hmm I thought the carbs would be the most likely culprit; cheers red01. I'll give 'em a good clean tommorrow!
-
Given that it started and ran at idle, it is most likely the carbs. They will need a good cleaning, and likely new O-rings.
Do change the oil and filter, and the air filter ASAP. This is more important than the plugs.
-
If it doesn't have metal brake lines, you might want to consider that too (at least for the front brakes).
-
welcome
-
Well after an epic half hour struggle with the throttle cable, the carbs have finally been removed. My dad has kindly agreed to give them a good clean and going over, I have a feeling I would be in over my head at this stage!
I shall change the oil/filter tommorrow. I have taken the air filter out; it says in the manual to clean it using a solvent (what kind?) and then soak it in motor oil (is this the same oil I put in the engine?). Also when I took the tank off there were 3 pipes going into the valve unerneath the tank; one i take it feeds the carbs, what do the other two do?
The old spark plugs seemed fine but I replaced them anyway. A question about the spark plug leads - I was a bit silly and didn't really pay any attention when I pulled them off, how do I tell which lead goes on which plug? I assume the length of the lead and where it best fits is a good guess......I think i put them back in the right place, but how can I be sure? Anyway while if had them off I checked for a spark off the engine and there was on all 4 leads.
The carbs were a nightmare to take off....goodness knows how I will get them on again. Thanks again for all your suggestions, your help is very much appreciated!
-
I usually unhook the throttle cable at the handlebars or work with the carbs on the bike... getting that cable back on the carb sucks.
-
Can I bring my bike to your place in Toronto, so we can clean my carbs together? :stickpoke: (I'm half serious)..... :motorsmile:
-
I usually unhook the throttle cable at the handlebars or work with the carbs on the bike... getting that cable back on the carb sucks.
+1
-
Tank hoses - one feeds the carbs, one goes to the vacuum port on the first carb, the other is a drain that leads down below the bike.
For the air filter, I've used the solvent designed for K&N filters on foam elements like that.
-
Ok so the L shaped longer pipe on the petcock is for the fuel hose and the smaller straight one is for the vacuum, the one comig off the tank is a drain. Thanks Pitter.
As for the spark leads I read elsewhere on the forum that the two coming from the left coil (when looking as if sitting on the bike) are for plugs 1 and 4 (does it matter which one goes where?) and the leads from the right coil go on 3 and 4.....is this correct?
So I need to get some special solvent for the air filter then, do I also need special oil?
And Gooseman if you can pay for a ticket from Aberdeen, Scotland to Toronto, Canada then I would be more than happy do clean them with you!
P.S Interfuse thats a very good idea..thanks!
-
Can I bring my bike to your place in Toronto, so we can clean my carbs together? :stickpoke: (I'm half serious)..... :motorsmile:
I'd gladly help you clean the carbs. But I just moved into a condo and no longer have anywhere to work on my vehicles (my old studio had a freight elevator and I could bring the bike inside...). If your girlfriend has a driveway or something I can show you how to clean them. Only problem would be if something went wrong you might be walking home. LOL.
-
As for the spark leads I read elsewhere on the forum that the two coming from the left coil (when looking as if sitting on the bike) are for plugs 1 and 4 (does it matter which one goes where?)
Nope, not electrically anyway.
Might be a slight difference in length though.
-
You got the hoses right. :bigok:
The short one on the left goes to #1 and the short one on the right goes to #3. The lengths should make it pretty obvious now that you know which coil goes to which cylinders.
-
Can I bring my bike to your place in Toronto, so we can clean my carbs together? :stickpoke: (I'm half serious)..... :motorsmile:
I'd gladly help you clean the carbs. But I just moved into a condo and no longer have anywhere to work on my vehicles (my old studio had a freight elevator and I could bring the bike inside...). If your girlfriend has a driveway or something I can show you how to clean them. Only problem would be if something went wrong you might be walking home. LOL.
Yeah...she has a nice garage, actually! :D You wanna come to Montreal instead? :wink: hehehee....
-
How come I never date girls with nice garages??? I love montreal, but I don't trust my bike enough to ride it that far... we've got a love hate relationship going on... if you get replacement o-rings it's probably safe to clean them in T.O. I've got all the tools and a spare carb and a 1/2 here.
-
he just want to see the vv :stickpoke:
-
hey dude well done on buying a b400
dont clean your air filter a new one will be like £2 and the cleaning stuff costs more than that and wont get it as good as a new one.
-
Just a quick update really.....
I had my CBT the Saturday before last and managed to pass despite having a lot of difficulties changing gear and braking due to a pair of massive army boots I was wearing! I then had 3 days intensive DAS training on a Kawa ER-5 (with proper boots) which was great fun and I learnt a hell of a lot throughout (used Biketec, Aberdeen - very good and inexpensive!).
I had the dreaded practical test this morning, and tbh I was a bit worried waking up and seeing the weather (very blustery and rainy) but having ridden in this weather before I was still confident. After a quick 30 minute warm-up it was time for the test............and I passed with only two minor faults! Not bad for someone who had never ridden a motorbike before just over a week ago!
Anyway I am still on a high and cannot wait to get my Bandit out on the road. The carbs should be coming back in a couple of days all cleaned up; then it's just a case of replacing the fork seals, giving it a good clean up and getting it through it's MOT. I hope there are no serious problems that will cost a lot of time/money so I can get out riding pretty quick. I'll let you know of any developments, and there will probably many more occasions where your advice will be invaluable!
-
Best of luck and BE CAREFUL out there. Take it slow and wear your gear. Good luck with the MOT!
-
Well i got the carbs back the other day and promptly installed them. I also replaced the air filter, drained the oil, put in a new oil filter and topped the oil back up with some fresh stuff. I took the battery off and gave it a charge overnight. I also checked all 4 plugs for sparking, which they all had. I have correctly installed the tank as there is definately fuel going into the carbs when i set the petcock to prime and then drain the float bowls.
Yet it still will not start? I am starting to get very annoyed, as the damn thing started when I 1st got it (albeit wouldnt rev) just by replacing the battery. Have I overlooked something obvious?
-
Try new plugs.
-
plug wires on right?
-
Plug wires are on all ok, left coil to 1# and 4# right coil to 2# and 3#. New plugs are in too.
Could it be something to do with compression? I don't think it is due to it starting before, or am I wrong?
-
for shits and giggle switch wires 1-4 to 2-3 and 2-3 to 1-4 then try to start if no change go back
-
Got fresh fuel?
Sounds strange. If this is NOT new, fresh fuel, I would suggest draining the tank and carbs, and starting with fresh fuel.
How's the battery voltage once you've cranked it for a while? It should be 13.2 to 13.4 volts. A weak battery may not let the plugs spark under compression.
-
What's it do when you crank it? What are your carb settings at?
Another possibility, if there's too much oil on the air filter it will starve the motor for air... it will keep trying to catch but as soon as you take your finger off the starter it will die... try removing the air filter and see if it starts.
You could also try using quick start or a drop of gas (keep your fingers near the kill switch). Then you'd know if it was carb related or not... just be careful.... boooom.
-
Yep have fresh fuel. The battery is new and has been charged over night until it is full (I have not got a voltage tester, but the charger has some led indicators).
I will give the wires around and see if that helps, thanks for the tip.
Concerning the air filter, I just put in a new one dry without soaking it in oil, could that affect it adversely? So should I just take the whole air filter off and try starting?
Whats that about using a drop of gas? Putting some directly into the carbs?
When I crank it I can hear the starter motor cranking away, it started the engine when I just replaced the battery a while ago and from what I remember there is no noticable change in sound. Grrrr, last thing I want to do is have a garage look at it......i'm a student and poor!
-
First, like Mike asked, what are your carb settings? Specifically check the air/fuel screws.... Screw each one in, counting the turns. They should be at least two turns out. Also, check the little brass tube that runs on the outside of carb #4. That thing is easily broken and will make starting a real bitch.
-
Ah ok, I haven't actually checked those.....
Where do I find them? Do I have to take the carbs completely off?
Where can I find the factory settings?
I have checked that brass tube and it seems fine, no holes in in or anything.
-
Ok well I spoke to my dad the other day and it turns out he DID NOT take the carbs apart, just soaked them in carb cleaner and gave em' a good outside clean - this was because he couldn't get into them due to some screws being threaded. Nevermind.
Anyway he gave me the same tip as interfuse did - pour a few drops of petrol into each carb and then try and fire it up. 1st I did this with the old plugs in, it gave a few promising coughs, then 5 seconds later a almighty BOOMing backfire that startled some people passing by! :lol:
After doing this twice I decided to change the plugs to the new ones I had bought and did the same thing again. Success! - After a few coughs it then promptly revved up to about 8K then cut out (bear in mnd this was when the fuel tank was not attached). I repeated this serveral times with the same result and feeling confident put the fuel tank back on. No luck however, just spluttered a few times (prob the remenants of the fuel I poured in) then did nothing. I then poured some more fuel into each carb (this time with the fuel tank properly attached, fuel hose, vacuum hose, primed the carbs ect) and it revved up again to about 8K before cutting out.
Thinking that by putting my hand over each carb and then trying the ignition may clear out some passages, but nothing really happened. I did feel suction in all 4 carbs, but some were stronger than others. Carb 1# suction felt quite weak compared to carb 3# which was much stronger and it almost sounded as it wanted to start!
Would it be fair to come to the conclusion that the carbs are clogged up somehow (yes I know that many of you wise people suggested that straight away, but I thought my dad had taken the carbs apart properly and cleaned them!). Should I just bite the bullet and get them professionally cleaned and synced?
Its a wieght off my mind that I have isolated the problem to the carbs, its now just a case of getting them working properly!
-
Are you using choke when you start it? Don't put it to full tilt, try like 1/2 way on... see what happens.
How long did you prime the carbs for? Sometimes it takes awhile for enough gas to get into the float bowl. I usually turn it to prime wait a few minutes, turn the choke on and sometimes even give it throttle to start after draining the bowls.
You'll clean your carbs and replace o-rings (if not right now, eventually).
Read this site, it's the same carb, we've just got more of them (and our settings are different).
http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/Carb_Clean.htm
Same here
http://gstwin.com/carb_work.htm
-
Oh and dunking in carb cleaner isn't the best idea. Unlike oldschool vehicles these carbs have lots of rubber / plastic that doesn't love being eaten by carb cleaner.
-
Oh and dunking in carb cleaner isn't the best idea. Unlike oldschool vehicles these carbs have lots of rubber / plastic that doesn't love being eaten by carb cleaner.
second that one. Def piddly carb issue have the carbs cleaned good and you should be golden. Also I'm sure there are a few qualified people on here that could save you some money in the long run with the carb clean if you can not do it your self I'm sure you live close to someone that can do it with out going to a shop, unless you have money like that. I also suggest taking care of the carbs with a carb rebuild kit if it has never been done just to reassure yourself that you have replaced the niggly bits that go bad.
-
Ah ok, so it is probably best that I get a carb kit while i'm at it, and get it properly cleaned. Is there anyone in the UK who could help me out?
-
You may want to talk to MIKE banditmax i think is his call sign (top gun ) lol he's usually busy but I'm sure you ship the carbs to him he could help you out. Or maybe he is close. I can send the carb kits to you unless Mike has better ideas.
-
Ah ok, I'll PM him and see what he says.
-
I tried the old fuel in the carb trick again the other day with the same results. It catches revs for a bit then cuts out due to lack of fuel (I think). I also tried choking each carb with my hand while trying to start it; there was not much suction on carbs 1# and 4#, but more on 2# and the most on 3#. When I choking those two it sounded like it almost would start and there seemed to be fuel on the sliders (especially 3#). When I choked 3# there where continous puffs of black smoke coming out of the exhaust. I also checked the manifold pipes of after this, 1# and 4# where cold, 2# was noticeably warmer and 3# had some heat to it.
Can the engine run on one cylinder? Is it obvious that there is a fuel starvation problem that a good carb rebuild will rectify? Cheers guys
-
Hi chaps,
Just a update; I finally got the thing running! Got the carbs rebuilt for the princely sum of £30 squid! Lobbed them in attached the fuel tank and after a few turnovers(not apple) and some choke it started! Left it ticking over for a while, and then gave it a bit of throttle: revved up fine. Let it run for about 5 minutes, then gave it some harder revs, revved fine up to 8k then stuttered a bit; tried again after a couple more minutes and it did the same at 10k; left a couple more minutes and it did the same at 12k(bear in mind that the airbox was off at this point).
Could this just be because the airbox was off or that it hasn't been running for a couple of years? Anyway I'm so happy it runs now; just need to get a few thing done to get it through it's MOT!
-
Airbox being off would make it stutter.
-
Ah cool. So it appears that everything is in order!
Airbox being off would make it stutter.